Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: RAIDER14 on February 06, 2006, 07:57:51 PM
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If you have any questions about Airlines,Aircraft,etc. anything else relateing to commercial aviation post em here
My question is whats the highest altitude a airliner has ever flown at?
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Probably the Concorde, which flew at around 60,000 feet.
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what ever happend to braniff? That was a great airline
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Yup, she's only a dream now
(http://www.aviacion.cl/images/Concorde.jpg)
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Did the Soviet SST go higher than the UK/French one?
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Concorde
The Aérospatiale-BAC Concorde supersonic transport (SST) was one of only two models of supersonic passenger airliners to have seen commercial service. Concorde had a cruise speed of Mach 2.04 and a cruise altitude of 60,000 feet (17,700 metres) with a delta wing configuration and an evolution of the afterburner-equipped engines originally developed for the Avro Vulcan strategic bomber. It is the first civil airliner to be equipped with an analogue fly-by-wire flight control system. Commercial flights, operated by British Airways and Air France, began on January 21, 1976 and ended on October 24, 2003, with the last "retirement" flight on November 26 that year.
But all othe flights are restricted to 29000 by the faa
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TU-144 flight stats (http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/jetliner/tu144/)
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
If you have any questions about Airlines,Aircraft,etc. anything else relateing to commercial aviation post em here
Why, are you an expert?
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lol, it kicked butt on the highly prized Alma Ata routes
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Originally posted by Dago
Why, are you an expert?
no but I do work at the new Frontiers Of Flight Musuem at Love Field so I hear a lot of stories from war veterans and pilots...
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Ok, I've got something I've been curious about for a while now.
I was flying from the west coast to the east and about an hour or so before we were to arrive at Baltimore, we hit some vicious turbulence. It hit with such force that the lady in the bathroom came out as fast as she could and didn't bother to go back to her seat but strapped herself down in the first chair she could find.
Suddenly it felt like we were on a roller coaster. All the luggage in the overhead bins went airborne and then came slamming down with a great crash. Over and over, negative g's then wham! wham! The noise was terrific but every passenger was very very quiet.
My daughter who was sitting beside me lost some of her felt animals on the floor. I tried with all my strength to pick them up off the floor but it was in vain. The plane was bouncing so hard that I kept going negative g and then I would slam into my lap, unable to grab them. I eventually got them off the floor but only during small breaks in the turbulence. I kept looking around to make sure every one had their seatbelts on because I was convinced that anyone who wasn't strapped in would hit the ceiling.
The worst lasted only about 5 minutes or so and things calmed down after about 20 minutes but it seemed like forever.
Another time coming back from Hawaii, two hours before we hit the coast we had moderate turbulence in zero visibility at night. It lasted until we landed. That was almost more unnerving than my roller coaster ride because it lasted so long.
My question is, is what I experienced normal? I don't fly enough to compare it to much so I was curious if I just had a couple bad flights. After we landed in Baltimore on the first flight, the crew was talking excitedly so I'm guessing it was a little unusual but I'm not sure.
Anyone else have such a ride?
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Tu-144 wasn't really that big of a hit considering its looks
(http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/gallery/photo/TU-144LL/Small/EC97-44203-3.jpg)
(http://www.astronomija.co.yu/razno/avioni/tu-144.jpg)
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ChickenHawk what kind of plane were you flying in on those trips?
Turbulence
Many passengers do not understand the effects of turbulence, or that an encounter with turbulence may occur without warning.
What is turbulence?
Turbulence is air movement that normally cannot be seen. It may occur when the sky appears to be clear and can happen unexpectedly. It can be created by any number of different conditions, including atmospheric pressures, jet streams, mountain waves, cold or warm fronts, or thunderstorms.
Different intensities of turbulence
Light turbulence - briefly causes slight, erratic changes in altitude and/or attitude.
Light chop - slight, rapid and somewhat rhythmic bumpiness without noticeable changes in altitude or attitude.
Moderate turbulence - similar to light turbulence, but greater intensity. Changes in altitude/attitude occur. Aircraft remains in control at all times. Variations in indicated air speed.
Moderate chop - similar to light chop, but greater intensity. Rapid bumps or jolts without obvious changes in altitude or attitude.
Severe turbulence - large, abrupt changes in altitude/attitude. Large variation in indicated airspeed. Aircraft may be temporarily out of control.
Extreme turbulence - aircraft is violently tossed about and is impossible to control. May cause structural damage.
The reactions inside aircraft vary from occupants feeling slight strain against their seat belts and unsecured items being slightly displaced, through to occupants being forced violently against seat-belts, and unsecured items being being tossed about. (Imagine what it would be like if you were not wearing a seat belt!)
Clear air turbulence
There are several notable problems with clear air turbulence:
It cannot always be foreseen so there is no warning.
It is usually felt at its mildest in the flight deck and is generally more severe in the aft section.
It can occur when no clouds are visible.
Aircraft radars can't detect it.
It is common at high altitudes, where cruising airline suddenly enter turbulent areas.
Turbulence is the leading cause of in-flight injuries. There are countless reports of occupants who were seriously injured while moving about the passenger cabin when clear air turbulence is encountered.
The causes
Thermals - Heat from the sun makes warm air masses rise and cold ones sink.
Jet streams - Fast, high-altitude air currents shift, disturbing the air nearby.
Mountains - Air passes over mountains and causes turbulence as it flows above the air on the other side.
Wake turbulence - Near the ground a passing plane or helicopter sets up small, chaotic air currents, or
Microbursts - A storm or a passing aircraft stirs up a strong downdraft close to the ground.
Injury prevention
In-flight turbulence is the leading cause of injuries to passengers and crew. Occupants injured during turbulence are usually not wearing seatbelts, ignoring recommendations to keep seatbelts fastened even when the signs are not illuminated. It is recognised that passengers need to move around the cabin to use restroom facilities or to exercise on long flights. However you should keep your seatbelt fastened at all times when seated.
From 1981 through 1997 there were 342 reports of turbulence affecting major air carriers. Three passengers died, two of these fatalities were not wearing their seat belt while the sign was on. 80 suffered serious injuries, 73 of these passengers were also not wearing their seat belts.
Turbulence related incidents
The following are recent jet airliner mishaps from around the world. In each event, at least one passenger/flight attendant was injured during an unexpected turbulence encounter.
During a flight from Singapore to Sydney with 236 passengers and 16 crew, the airplane encountered turbulence over central Australia. The plane hit an "air pocket" which caused it to drop 300 feet. Nine passengers including one pregnant woman and three crew members suffered various neck, back and hip injuries, with one of the passengers requiring surgery. Those who were injured were not wearing seat belts.
During a flight from Japan to Brisbane 16 passengers were injured when a large aircraft encountered turbulence. Passengers had been advised to keep their seatbelts fastened while seated. The pilot in command reported that flight conditions were smooth prior to encountering the turbulence. The weather radar did not indicate adverse weather, so the crew did not turn on the seatbelt signs. A number of the passengers who were not wearing their seatbelts were injured when they were thrown from their seats.
A jet hit air turbulence shortly before it landed at a Hong Kong airport, injuring 47 people, seven of them seriously. "It happened very suddenly and everything was very chaotic," one of the 160 passengers aboard the flight said. "The plane just dropped and I saw things flying all over."
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
ChickenHawk what kind of plane were you flying in on those trips?
As it was a 737 I wasn’t really in fear for my life as I know their built to withstand such forces. It was a clear sunny day and it came on quite suddenly when it happened to me.
From you post it seems it's a well documented phenomenon but it doesn't say how common it is.
I'm curious how many frequent flyers or pilots like Toad have been through extreme turbulence before.
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Originally posted by ChickenHawk
It was a clear sunny day and it came on quite suddenly when it happened to me.
Clear days are more windy than hazy days I think. Short of a storm, a Clear day would worry me more for a turbulant ride than one with a 'hazy' visability.
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Originally posted by ChickenHawk
My question is, is what I experienced normal? I don't fly enough to compare it to much so I was curious if I just had a couple bad flights. After we landed in Baltimore on the first flight, the crew was talking excitedly so I'm guessing it was a little unusual but I'm not sure.
Anyone else have such a ride?
Sounds like the turbulence you'd get when you're flying from a jet core to the slower moving air around it. There's going to be a pretty good shear (in some cases in excess of 100kts) and you'll be bumped around pretty well. The good news is (and what makes it likely in your case) if you can get into one and ride it from West to East...you're going to have a very high groundspeed. I've got a picture of a buddy doing over 700kts GS in a B-737. zooooooooom.
There is also Clear Air Turbulence and you can't really do much to predict it like you might for days when there's a lot of convective activity such as a summer afternoon when it's usually always bumpy at least at some altitudes from the warm air rising.
I read raiders post...doesn't seem to answer your question. It's not a normal flight thing, but it happens. You're riding in a big aluminum pressurized dildo going 500mph...excuse the bumps :p
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Originally posted by Golfer
I read raiders post...doesn't seem to answer your question. It's not a normal flight thing, but it happens. You're riding in a big aluminum pressurized dildo going 500mph...excuse the bumps :p
:rofl
Sig material! ;)
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A couple of days ago I was in smooth as a baby's butt 60kt winds.
On the decent into a field that was reporting calm winds there was nothing to report for bumps, shear, etc.
This happened twice (was an X/C round trip. 1:25 outbound [could have done the flying backwards thing except I was on an IFR clearance], 0:30 back), but a few miles away was a report of moderate turbulence.
Sometimes you get lucky
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
no but I do work at the new Frontiers Of Flight Musuem at Love Field so I hear a lot of stories from war veterans and pilots...
WHOAH MY JOE!!! I live only 20 miles south of Love Field!!! I still remember when the tuskege airmen were there (Is it spelled correctly?)
Remember, Wright is Wrong! -Southwest Airlines (HQ Love Field)
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I flew a 172 to an interview with a charter outfit a few weeks ago. There were a few firsts...
The first time I've had in excess of 160kts Groundspeed in a 172 in cruise on my way there.
The first time it's taken me almost 2 hours to get from the Ohio river to Columbus in a 172 on my way back.
Above 4000' the ride was smooth as silk. Below 4000' with the hills doing their thing and the wind shearing the ride was terrible. 50+kt winds aloft with 20kt surface winds...yee haw!
Oh yeah one more first...the first time I was hired to fly a jet :) ::happy dance:: still waiting for a date to go to school.
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I remember one trip from back from Balt. back to Orl. on a 737 we had the jitters the whole way back.. Seems we were fighting a easterly jet stream, poor pilot couldn't get us to any clean air it ended after about 3 hours of turbulence!!
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I can say I've never had any bad turbulence flying east or west. The most I've felt was probably when I was flying to College Station in a Mooney M20E "Super 21." It was a bit bumpy then.
But I've never had bad turbulence in large airliners. The occasional bump, yeah, but nothing serious. Must be Midwestern air. :eek:
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Which plane do you think will be more successful?
(http://www.aircraft-info.net/aircraft/jet_aircraft/boeing/7e7/boeing-7E7.jpg)
7e7
or
(http://www2g.biglobe.ne.jp/~aviation/a380.jpg)
A380
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As a cargo carrier, the A380.
As a people mover, the 787.
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Does American Airlines have orders for 7e7s?
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
Does American Airlines have orders for 7e7s?
It hasnt been called the 7e7 for at least a year, it is the 787 and has many orders.
For an expert, you are kinda behind times. Catch up dangit or we gonna recall your expert hat.
And by the way, Northwest has an initial order in for 18, due to start service in mid 2008.
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AIRLINE 787 PREVIEWS
(http://www.ab-pr.com/upload/Boeing/Bulten/Korean%20Air-h.jpg)
Korean Air
(http://www.ab-pr.com/upload/Boeing/Bulten/Northwest%20787-H.jpg)
Northwest
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Boeing has orders from something like 27 airlines for about 380 787s.
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so the 787 is replaceing the 767 or the 757
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Hold your breath....................... ..........
This is the Future!:)
(http://www.aee.odu.edu/img/aerosystems/jpg/5_blended_body_wing.jpg)
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but thats not entering service for a long time
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
so the 787 is replaceing the 767 or the 757
No, the 757 is out of production. It replaces the 767 if someone wants to buy it for that, it is basically the same pax numbers give or take.
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but it also has longer range the the 757 and a cooler cockpit
(http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/photorelease/q3/050831g.jpg)
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Originally posted by 1K3
Hold your breath....................... ..........
Good luck trying to get a window seat in that thing.
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I was a passenger in a c-12 crossing either the cascades in washington or the continental divide in montana, can't remember. Anyway the wind came up off those mountains and shook that plane like a *****. One guy started talking to his god.
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If you fly on a Chicago Express Jetstream 31 over on the chicago lansing route thats a bumpy ride
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UPS DC-8 cuaght fire and landed at PHL
LINK (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/08/ups.plane.fire/index.html)
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Flew into Roanoke in a Turboprop one day with the winds holding at about 30 to 35mph.
We hit a draft coming off that ridge the shot the plane up and back down, I actually hit my head on the overhead bins.
Pilot says we're gonna give it a try and makes a very steep decent from high over the ridge...the whole time decending there was a lady screaming that the pilot was trying to end it for all of us. That was a bumpy ride.
Hit clear air turbulence over the Pacific flying from Hong Kong to Chicago that was bad.
Actually, took off in a typhoon 3 or 4 warning (can't remember) from HK airport, and I think a China Airlines plane crashed about an hour after our departure trying to take off out of there due to the winds getting worse.
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try flying through a severe thunderstorm in Texas then you'll know why they put the barf bags there
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Done it...never needed a one. Never even looked up from my book, actually.
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well when I flew one through on our descent in DFW that pilot said prepare for a possible crash landing and engines kept on throttleing up and down :O
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You must have been flying through a tornado. I've been through take-offs and landings in all kinds of weather in Texas and never once have I been worried about my safety. The worst flight I've had was over the Appalachian Mountains on the way to Boston...and that was just a lot of chop.
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no but I was sitting behind the cokpit in row 1 so I heard the pilots going nuts if there was a tornado the tower would have diverted us to OKC but there was probaly lots of wind shear and lightning cuase the blue lightning lights were on at the airport not to mention the pilot saying thank you for flying American airlines on the way to the gate:lol
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
the tower would have diverted us to OKC
Yeah that's exactly what they would've done...
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Clip of the Concorde breaking the sound barrier (http://www.youtube.com/w/Concorde-breaking-the-sound-barrier?v=5JOkSVlmuhY)
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
well when I flew one through on our descent in DFW that pilot said prepare for a possible crash landing and engines kept on throttleing up and down :O
Hmmm, I flew through Intense thunderstorms on my way out of houston once. They were intense thunderstorms packing about 80 MPH winds, and a few tornado warnings went up just as we took off....... Well, we had a "fun" bumpy ride.... TEXAS GIANT....:lol
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Originally posted by Bogie603rd
Hmmm, I flew through Intense thunderstorms on my way out of houston once. They were intense thunderstorms packing about 80 MPH winds, and a few tornado warnings went up just as we took off....... Well, we had a "fun" bumpy ride.... TEXAS GIANT....:lol
:rolleyes: thats Texas weather for ya