Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Terror on February 08, 2006, 02:42:53 PM
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I'm looking at purchasing my first MuzzleLoader to be used in the upcoming 2006 Deer Season. I was wondering if any of the firearm enthusiasts here would share their recommendations/experiences. I have been looking at a Thompson Center (http://www.tcarms.com) Omega (http://www.tcarms.com/TC_HTML/TC_Muzzle_Omega.htm) specifically this Model (http://www.tcarms.com/TC_IMAGES/TC_Muzzle_Images/INFO_MZZLE-Omega_Thumbhole.jpg).
I appreciate the help!
Terror
PS. Please don't hold my Glock addiction against me. :D
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Not a bad gun but I prefer these type when I am hunting with my black powder rifle.
LYMAN Deerstalker Percussion Rifle .50 & .54 cal 742 743
Item 66-742 66-743 $296.95
(http://www.octobercountry.com/shopcart/display-image.php?file=633_66-742a.jpg)
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1854 Einfield.
I own one for Civil War Re-enaction purposes but it can do live fire and word around camp is that is great for hunting as it is quite accurate. .58 caliber slug has power to it.
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Whitworth
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I saw an Enfield #8 not so long ago.. the damn thing was amazingly accurate. Seems to be a modification on the old tried and true No 1 Mk III. In retrospect, I'm not even sure if it was black powder/ball.. musta been some kinda black powder/cartridge setup.
I know next ta nothin about black powder weapons.. when I get bored with the old bolties that I'm havin so much fun with now I'll prolly head down that path... chuckin 50 cal + sized slugs intrigues me. :D
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I own an 1861 Springfield reproduction..
I've live fired an enfield, I'm unsure of what year, but for my first time shooting .50cal,let alone anything larger then a .22, I actually scored several hits.
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Terror,
I hunted with the traditional black powder rifles. I had decent luck with them. That rifle should be OK as long as it meets with the state hunting regs where you plan on hunting. Check the stock fit for you to see if you can use the iron sights or if you need to modify it. I have a non traditional stocked rifle now and the comb of the stock is set for a scope so the iron sights are all but useless to me. Make sure the one you get fits you or shooting it can be uncomfortable. A 120 grain charge behind a large conical bullet will definately get your attention.
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I use a T/C Hawk in .50 caliber. I shoot power-rim rounds behind 100gr of black powder using open sights.
You don't miss inside of 150yds.
Father uses a .54 caliber Hawkin and shoots 120gr and the same bullets with a 4x14 scope. He's killed deer out to 200yds.
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If you want something inexpensive (entry level) that is still a rugged and accurate rifle, check out the New England Firearms model called the Sidekick. I think Cabela's carries them. It looks like a modern break-action single shot rifle, but its a muzzleloader with a modern primer ignition system. I have one. Very accurate out to 150 yards with just the iron sights. .50 cal. One of these will run less than 200 bucks, whereas the Thompsons can run 300 - 400.
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I use a Knight Wolverine. Walmart had some of the nice Thompson center Black Diamond rifles real cheap. My Wolverine was under $200 from Gander Mountain 12 years or so ago. Still shoots very well, as well as I can or better.
Once you get into the modern style closed ignition inline black powder rifles, any good name brand is a decent piece. By the way, my hunting buddy has an Omega and two stocks have cracked on it. Both replaced under warranty, but still, they cracked. I suggest that entry level black powder shooters buy an inexpensive model to start with. You might decide that black powder isn't your thing. Used top end black powder rifles generally don't tend to hold their value too well.
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I can't stand the new fangled "black powder" rifles. Any of those new fangled "black powder" rifles can do exactly what my .30-06 Model 700 Remington can do and to me that is not why I am shooting black powder rifles. To me a black powder for hunting is just like bow hunting. Get in close and make it count. I try to get inside of 50 yards now with my black powder. Anything else and I am taking my .30-06 or .30-30.
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aside from the initial investment in the gun, on average howmuch more is needed in supplies? I am thinking of picking up a replica RN sea service pistol,and Musket.
Do you have to cast your own balls, or any of that? Or do they sell them loose in common calibers?
I never liked those modern black powder guns either. The old ones look better, not so gay.
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Originally posted by Pooh21
aside from the initial investment in the gun, on average howmuch more is needed in supplies? I am thinking of picking up a replica RN sea service pistol,and Musket.
Do you have to cast your own balls, or any of that? Or do they sell them loose in common calibers?
I never liked those modern black powder guns either. The old ones look better, not so gay.
You can buy most anything for black powder at a good sporting goods store or gun shop. That includes the cast lead balls. Yo can also get the stuff at Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's.
You'll need caps, powder, a measure, balls, patches for the balls, and cleaning supplies. I usually use very hot water and dishwashing detergent, and regular cleaning patches. Followed by good oil. Shouldn't cost you too much, usually under $75.
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oh and modern powder still gives off all the smoke? that I think is one of the coolest things about those old guns.
thanks
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Originally posted by Pooh21
oh and modern powder still gives off all the smoke? that I think is one of the coolest things about those old guns.
thanks
Yes, Pyrodex smokes almost as much as genuine Goex black powder. The new Triple 7 doesn't. Few places carry real black powder, like Goex. You need a special license to keep and sell it, for commercial sales. The hardcore black powder people use the real stuff. I use Pyrodex, because it is easier to get, and more convenient. I might switch to Triple 7 when I use up my Pyrodex.
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i got a few black powders my self..got a colt dragoon reissue by colt..a repo 44 remington old army<~~getting a converstion cilinder so i can shoot 45 long colt and black powder by just changing cilinders. we had a zuave 58 cal..a old parker snow 58 cal,,and a reproduction springfield 58cal 1861 i beleive...good gun..shoots over a ounce of lead..lol..my brother wants a 69 cal brown bess..lol
what i enjoy about the military black powders is there easy to load..the bullets drop allmost all the way down..some hunting and hawkins style you have to force it down threw the riflings..the military style shoot the mini ball more than round bal..expans and grabs the rilfings instead of being forced threw them...i read articals in a gun mag about knight inline blackpowders...very nice hunters..there not legal to hunt with in washington state for some reason..but you cans till use old military styles and hawkins style..and davey crocket specials..lol..in the mag thou..knight bragged there black powders was more accurate than most regular bullets..said cause there inlines had no brass crimping around the bullet..the bullet was sent out of the barrel on a more strait path than a regular bullet...atleast thats what the artical said..maybe thats why there illegal in washington?,,hehe
i shot the pyrodex..it aint too bad..works fine..im using real goex..lucky a guy has the license for it about 30miles from me..its worth picking up a can or 2 if you can..ya..the pyodex smokes..i think even more than regular black powder..and smells little worse{atleast i think}..but it works just fine..never had any troubles with it
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yes, Pyrodex smokes almost as much as genuine Goex black powder. The new Triple 7 doesn't. Few places carry real black powder, like Goex. You need a special license to keep and sell it, for commercial sales. The hardcore black powder people use the real stuff. I use Pyrodex, because it is easier to get, and more convenient. I might switch to Triple 7 when I use up my Pyrodex.
Watch the 777, its hotter than the others. You'll want to use a little less volume than with Pyrodex or Goex. Its also pretty corrosive, but if your used to using Pyrodex its not much worse than that.
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Originally posted by Reschke
I can't stand the new fangled "black powder" rifles. Any of those new fangled "black powder" rifles can do exactly what my .30-06 Model 700 Remington can do and to me that is not why I am shooting black powder rifles. To me a black powder for hunting is just like bow hunting. Get in close and make it count. I try to get inside of 50 yards now with my black powder. Anything else and I am taking my .30-06 or .30-30.
Reschke, dont sneeze at anything just because its "newer". There is a point to modern black powder rifles. To me its not about hunting, its about survival. I go deer hunting with my Kentuckian. Its fun. I keep a NEF break action black powder gun because if all else in the world fails and technology fails us, we can still make black powder. That little NEF rifle is half the size (and weight) of that nice old Kentuckian of mine. I already cast my own balls. If something happened and I had no bullets for all my other fancy guns, I'd still have a brace of pistols and my rifles that can use loose powder. Which would you rather carry for hours in the woods, a 7 ft long 8 lb rifle, or a 4 ft long 3 1/2 lb rifle?
Besides, look at the modern BP rifle, and then look at the original "rolling block" rifles. They were muzzleloaders but they have an inline hammer like a single shot rifle. The design of a modern one is so amazingly similar its eerie. You dont improve much on the rolling block design, because Remington learned 150 years ago that inline ignition is far superior to side ignition.
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One of the things about deer hunting with a muzzleloader that makes it fun for me is using the old fashioned style sidelock hammer rifles. Half the fun is just sighting-in practice before hunting season, with the inevitable powder grains that blow back in the eye from the nipple (they aren't dangerous but more of an annoyance. They may leave a small single grain burn on the eye though, which heals quickly). I practiced under the same conditions I hunted. In those days I had great eyesight and didn't wear glasses hunting. So I didn't wear them at practice. One thing about it...It develops shooting discipline to overcome flinching
I usually used 65 grains of black powder FF in the .58 Zouave for hunting. This was the standard Civil War load and it is accurate for short range hunting (30 yards). In most cases in Alabama woods, this is the most common range you need to be sighted in for deer. I load patch and ball for the first shot and have a REAL bullet (rifling engraved at loading) ready for the next load. I carry a piece of half-inch wooden dowel for the ramrod. Needless to say, for deer hunting it's not necessary to have more than one reload so I can travel as light as possible. Even then, just about have to be on the ground or solid surface to reload...not from a climber stand. The ramrod dowel is an extra loose component to deal with.
Les
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I've been using the CVA optima for the last couple of seasons now... It resembles the same characteristics as the T/C Omega, but much more affordable. It is a break action, and it is horribly accurate. I have the Mossy Oak version... Very cool!
http://www.cabelas.com/products/Cpod0020995.jsp
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Originally posted by Leslie
One of the things about deer hunting with a muzzleloader that makes it fun for me is using the old fashioned style sidelock hammer rifles. Half the fun is just sighting-in practice before hunting season, with the inevitable powder grains that blow back in the eye from the nipple (they aren't dangerous but more of an annoyance. They may leave a small single grain burn on the eye though, which heals quickly). I practiced under the same conditions I hunted. In those days I had great eyesight and didn't wear glasses hunting. So I didn't wear them at practice. One thing about it...It develops shooting discipline to overcome flinching
Les
I was involved in filming a TV series set in 1798 along with the rest of my reserve unit once. We all trained on the the old 'Brown Bess' flintlock muskets although some had ACW muskets with fake flintlock furniture. The one thing I do remember is blowback from the pans of powder. Something the didn't warn us about until we actually fired. It was tough not to flinch the second time around:( The other thing I remember were the massive clouds of smoke produced when a line of men fired. It was an interesting insight into how men fought in the past. We didn't use musket balls of course but once someone left a ramrod in the barrel which neatly speared the leg of one of the assistant directors.:eek:
My company must have been one of the very few modern military units to be trained in the use of flintlock muskets, percussion lock muskets, bolt action rifles and automatic rifles. Ready for action no matter what the era. :cool: