Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ghi on February 10, 2006, 10:34:53 AM
-
I read this on Yahoo news,
.."The Commerce Department reported Friday that the gap between what America sells abroad and what it imports rose to $725.8 billion last year, up by 17.5 percent from the previous record of $617.6 billion set in 2004...."
Should add taxes on imports to slow down the deficit , forget the free trade crap, if your economy goes down, all the world goes in recession,
How far can the defict go?:(
-
How far can the defict go?
I'm up for finding out, who's with me?
-
How far can the defict go?
How high can you count?
-
The world economy and the US economy (doh!) would greatly benefit from turning that trend. Too much _either way_ is bad.
-
things seem to be going alright here in the part of america I reside in....
-
By economic definition, a persistent trade deficit can only exist if there is a corresponding capital surplus.
Where is this capital surplus coming from? The national debt.
Who is financing the national debt? 40% is financed by foreign investors.
We are buying foreign goods, and foreigners are lending us money to buy more. There will come a time when this all reaches a critical mass and foreign investors stop financing the national debt.
-
Originally posted by Yeager
things seem to be going alright here in the part of america I reside in....
here too,
Germany still the champion exporter 2005 and was able to defend its No. 1 position as world export champion against the United States.
-
Originally posted by ghi
I read this on Yahoo news,
.."The Commerce Department reported Friday that the gap between what America sells abroad and what it imports rose to $725.8 billion last year, up by 17.5 percent from the previous record of $617.6 billion set in 2004...."
Should add taxes on imports to slow down the deficit , forget the free trade crap, if your economy goes down, all the world goes in recession,
How far can the defict go?:(
Wow, I've known about the crazy-high deficit for a LONG time now. Maybe if more people knew about it, would wouldn't be in so much of a hole...
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm up for finding out, who's with me?
Go for it.
by the time it actually has to be paid for Ill be long dead and gone probably so will my kids lol
-
Originally posted by Mickey1992
By economic definition, a persistent trade deficit can only exist if there is a corresponding capital surplus.
Where is this capital surplus coming from? The national debt.
Who is financing the national debt? 40% is financed by foreign investors.
We are buying foreign goods, and foreigners are lending us money to buy more. There will come a time when this all reaches a critical mass and foreign investors stop financing the national debt.
Just write em a rubber check and tell em to take it or leave it.
What they gonna do? invade us?
LMAO
-
Yeah that will work nicely :)
-
well, its only to be expected with a world economy. Chinas blue collar workers average 33 cents per hour and work about 75 hours per week. Even though the world community forced china to write some labor laws, they are largely ignored, especially the ones governing overtime pay. So lets see, the line owrkers in my plant make a base pay of about 40,000 dollars on a 40 hour week . They get decent medical at a fairly reasonable rate, (althouhg that is going to change soon). They get 9 paid holidays, 3 personal days, and depending on years of service, 7 weeks vacation per year. I am not sure what the chinese get, but you can bet its proportional the the pay difference. Id say the average cost of a line worker in my plant is about 55,000-60,000 dollars per year based on a 40 hour week. Thats about 26 dollars per hour. Id say thats about middle of the raod for a large corporations Union line worker, if not closer to below avg. The chinese on base pay alone, not even 1000 dollars per year. Obvioulsy, we are going to be buying chinese products, while they are going to be doing good to have a pot to pisss in, much less, purchase US made stuff. This is why the wise leaders of ancient history imposed tariffs on imported goods, to even the playing fields. The tariffs have been reduced recently, so large corporations, including US companies, can take advantage of this slave labor without having to pay those pesky import fees. In a raw economic terms, this is free trade at its finest. Good luck to everybody and your children if you are not a highly skilled worker or a professional.:aok
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Just write em a rubber check and tell em to take it or leave it.
What they gonna do? invade us?
LMAO
Something closer to: No further shipments of blow up sheep until payment is received, incidentally......interest on current loans being defaulted on is 100% daily. Those are MY rifles you're pointing at me and take MY helmet off when you speak to me you horrible little debtor.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
-
Originally posted by Swoop
Something closer to: No further shipments of blow up sheep until payment is received, incidentally......interest on current loans being defaulted on is 100% daily. Those are MY rifles you're pointing at me and take MY helmet off when you speak to me you horrible little debtor.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
:rofl
-
We are doomed!!!
Everything points to the fact that all the decayed little you-0-peean countries will rise again and teach us a lesson for not respecting culture and class.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
i guess non of you Cassandras have ever heard of "debt forgiveness"
-
What? Like the one of African countries?
-
Yup. The pooch is porked.
[asian accent]
"...who really won second world war? you round eyes think you shoooo shmaaart. You no drive 'Eisenhower'.. no drive 'MacArthur'... you drive Toyota and Honda! You no learn, you now give Chinese all money at wallmarts, they now build your coffins out of cheap blue plastic crap!
you not so smart, round eyes. you lose big time, for last time.
we watch, we laugh. america filled with fools; you sell own souls to buy cheap fema trailer space in hell!"
[/asian accent]
-
Yep... at this rate... in less than a few more hundred years we will be as destitute and bitter as any your-0-peeean country.
Is it too late to bow to a king or something?
lazs
-
Originally posted by Saintaw
What? Like the one of African countries?
Yeah geez john, are you comparing the US to a ****hole third world country?
-
Originally posted by lazs2
Yep... at this rate... in less than a few more hundred years we will be as destitute and bitter as any your-0-peeean country.
Is it too late to bow to a king or something?
lazs
I need new glasses. First time I read that line I thought it said '..too late to blow a king?..' ;)
While it might be that the time frame for our economic implosion may be outside our lifespans, I tend to regard the loss of 2.2 million middle class american jobs to the asian trade deficit in the last 5 years to be worth noting as nothing less than 'a ****ing sellout' by Congress and the administration.
I firmly believe that the entire asian mess can be solved quite quickly with some testicle fortitude by Congress.
1. Seize Chinese assets in the U.S.
2. tear up the current trade tarrif program with China, ban chinese imports.
3. Inform China that resuming trade and return of thier assets will occur 15 minutes after they solve the North Korean nuke problem. It's their monkey, they can deal with it.
4. Re-institute trade with China using a simple 'balanced tarrif' program. We bang thier goods with tarrifs at exactly the same rates they bang our products with.
Problem solved.
-
I ain't worried about it hang... the your-0-peeans are getting all wet over the thought of old arrogant America finaly getting theirs tho.
They will go to their grave waiting.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Swoop
Something closer to: No further shipments of blow up sheep until payment is received, incidentally......interest on current loans being defaulted on is 100% daily. Those are MY rifles you're pointing at me and take MY helmet off when you speak to me you horrible little debtor.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
Like I said,
Whatcha gonna do? Invade us?
Besides we played the major role in keeping you all safe from the boogieman (or should I say "Barodaman") for 50+ years.;)
Which reminds me. Did you all ever finish paying off your dept to us from the "Lend Lease Program"?
Now lets see. Cost of defence and protection from the boogieman + accruing intrest. + debt from Lend Lease +accuing intrest
Tally
tally
tally
press = ::CHACHING::
OK ok you win. We owe you exactly $1.30
Would you like that in a check or money order?
Now dont complain. Just be happy Im not an accountant or you will be oweing US money again
:D
-
Heh, don't think you've understood what I tried to say.
It aint us, your allies, that you have to worry about.
And as I said, no-one needs to invade the US, merely stop supplying all the things that you wont be able to pay for......and not start supplying them again until all back payments have been made including the interest and late payment fines.
Rattle sabres all you like, if you can't afford new sabres your enemies just need to wait for yours to wear out.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
-
Originally posted by Swoop
Heh, don't think you've understood what I tried to say.
It aint us, your allies, that you have to worry about.
And as I said, no-one needs to invade the US, merely stop supplying all the things that you wont be able to pay for......and not start supplying them again until all back payments have been made including the interest and late payment fines.
Rattle sabres all you like, if you can't afford new sabres your enemies just need to wait for yours to wear out.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
Actually I wish they would. Then we would be forced into providing for ourselves again.
Its not like we cant as much as its we dont want to
-
Nah, you're just not geared to.
Spent too long in the comfort zone. A month or two being deprived would kick the US in the pants enough for the US to kick itself in the pants.....er.....if you know what I mean.
You'd have to do without blow up dolls made in Taewan for a while but the US plastics industry would soon step up to the plate.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
-
yea it would hurt at first.
But pain, when inflicted correctly can be a good and positive thing
-
Originally posted by Swoop
merely stop supplying all the things that you wont be able to pay for......and not start supplying them again until all back payments have been made including the interest and late payment fines.
50% of chinas exports go to the US, if they don't send them to us , who would buy them ? europe?
you need to understand world trade.
if the US is "cut off" who would buy all the oil, nikes, toyotas, shirts, pants,TV's,DVD's,computers, etc.
-
Someone else would...we aren't the only people in the world importing goods.
There's always a buyer. We are just one of the largest.
-
By choice...
-
Originally posted by john9001
you need to understand world trade.
So do you mate. Trade being the operative word.
If it comes to the stage where the US isn't paying for said goods and services then what is the supplier supposed to do? Continue supply and hope? Or panic and pull the plug?
Is it better to produce and supply something for nothing in return until you cant afford to pay for the production anymore or is it better to stop production until a market can be found? What do you think Mr Lee from Hong Kong thinks?
If the US went bust......so would a lotta other people. But other people are used to being in the ****. You aint.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
yea it'll hurt at first.
But pain, when inflicted correctly can be a good and positive thing
... I got an errrie mental picture of abramoff, with a shocked look on his face his first night in cell block 9; listening to this speach from from Tom Delay; who's bent over beside him...
-
50% of chinas exports go to the US, if they don't send them to us , who would buy them ? europe?
you need to understand world trade.
if the US is "cut off" who would buy all the oil, nikes, toyotas, shirts, pants,TV's,DVD's,computers, etc.
What does the US buy them with, at the moment? Dollars. What happens to the dollars? They pile up in foreign banks, who can't exchange them all for goods or services, because the US isn't producing enough goods and services.
In other words, in exchange for the goods America is importing, the countries that are making them are getting promises to pay in future. They aren't actually getting paid for the excess American imports now, if they no longer sent the imports, they wouldn't be getting paid, but they wouldn't be working and incurring costs, either.
-
Technically, foreign reserves have purposes other than simple liquid currency with the nation of issue.
This is not directed at you, Nashwan, but currencies are not way out of balance now and all this handwringing is not going on in the halls and offices of central banks. All the handwringing and angst is on the internet by financial amateurs and professional handwringers.
-
Originally posted by john9001
50% of chinas exports go to the US, if they don't send them to us , who would buy them ? europe?
you need to understand world trade.
Irony at it's finest.
-
Originally posted by Rolex
but currencies are not way out of balance now and all this handwringing is not going
Of course they are. The Fed issues 50 billion USD a week, do you see a proportional fall in USD value? No.
on in the halls and offices of central banks. All the handwringing and angst is on the internet by financial amateurs and professional handwringers.
Then why are so many central banks either thinking about or already deversifying from a more or less strickly USD reserve?
-
Originally posted by Nashwan
What does the US buy them with, at the moment? Dollars. What happens to the dollars? They pile up in foreign banks, who can't exchange them all for goods or services, because the US isn't producing enough goods and services.
they buy US treasury notes of course, what else are you going to do with "worthless US paper money"
and because they own so much US debt, they cannot let the US default.
-
Originally posted by john9001
and because they own so much US debt, they cannot let the US default.
Sure they can. Heck several countries are already selling off US dollar denominated assets.
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
Sure they can. Heck several countries are already selling off US dollar denominated assets.
selling them to who? you can't sell anything without a buyer.
-
Originally posted by john9001
selling them to who? you can't sell anything without a buyer.
So reduce the price you're selling them at. Oh wait, that would lead to a devaluation of other US dollar denominated assets. See where I'm going with this?
-
And yet the Dollar has gained significantly on the Yen and Euro over the past 12 months.
Go figure.
-
Originally posted by Thrawn
Then why are so many central banks either thinking about or already deversifying [sic] from a more or less strickly [sic] USD reserve?
Because it allows some measure of flexibility in exchange rate fluctuations, brings an investment incentive to foreign relationships, diversifies risk in any financial instrument investments made with the currency, UD$ are still the predominate currency for oil/gas purchases and the global economy is always in expansion, in addition to being a simple investment.
Every person here has a trade deficit. How much do you sell to your local grocery store?
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
And yet the Dollar has gained significantly on the Yen and Euro over the past 12 months.
Go figure.
I figure that although the USD has gained on the Euro in the past 12 months, the increase is nowhere near proportional to fall verse the Euro over the past five years. And I figure that it will gain verse the Yen as long as the Japanese decide they want to prop up the US government by buying US treasury notes.
Originally posted by Rolex
Because it allows some measure of flexibility in exchange rate fluctuations, brings an investment incentive to foreign relationships, diversifies risk in any financial instrument investments made with the currency,
Passing strange that relatively recently central banks have felt a need to protect against risks of having only USDs as their reserve currency for decades.
Every person here has a trade deficit. How much do you sell to your local grocery store?
Specious. If looking at one to one exchanges sure, but you are ignoring where everyone (at least those not one welfare) get their purchasing power to buy stuff from thier local grocery stores.
- Produce something for your employer.
- Get paid.
- Spend some on groceries.
You're claim would only be true if everyone was paying thier groceries with IOUs.
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
And yet the Dollar has gained significantly on the Yen and Euro over the past 12 months.
some 8 euro cents. Is that significant? Back then it was somewhat high and the average has been around 1 € - 1.20 $
-
"You're [sic] claim would only be true if everyone was paying thier [sic] groceries with IOUs."
They are. They're called promissary notes.
-
Originally posted by Fishu
some 8 euro cents. Is that significant? Back then it was somewhat high and the average has been around 1 € - 1.20 $
8% return last year ain't bad.
-
Originally posted by Rolex
"You're [sic] claim would only be true if everyone was paying thier [sic] groceries with IOUs."
They are. They're called promissary notes.
Inductive fallacy, they are comparable in that they are both promissary notes, but they contast in their utility specific to context. Due to the universality of a currency within a country the grocer doesn't have to wait to use the money they recieve. The money can be used immediately to buy goods and services. But they would have a much more difficult time trying to buy stuff with the IOU, because it's the possibility of money and has the risks that that entails.
Where international trade when dealing with different currencies for different nations, money is the possibility of goods and services.
-
But, you see, Thrawn, you haven't finished your thought. The grocer and all business operates on credit and the promissory risks associated with it, and not on cash flow only. And so do nations.
I'm not going to get into this undergraduate econ pedantic semantic debate. Of course, a trade surplus is enviable, but if your position is that impending catestrophic global economic doom is likely from the monetary supply, I would not hang around the house all day and night waiting for the Nobel Committee to call.
Go out and have dinner and a few drinks.
Cheers.
-
Originally posted by Rolex
The grocer and all business operates on credit and the promissory risks associated with it, and not on cash flow only.
Not true, my wife works at a small store and some of their suppliers only sell on a cash basis.
And so do nations.
Nah, nations when it comes to trade don't necessarily have a unversal policy of having to use credit. It's up to the individual companies.
I'm not going to get into this undergraduate econ pedantic semantic debate.
I that's why you are making so many invalid arguements in this debate then, it's just so...ya know, beneath you.
Go out and have dinner and a few drinks.
You do the same, maybe it will salve your bruised ego.
Cheers.