Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: B@tfinkV on February 11, 2006, 06:19:18 AM
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See Rule #4
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I don't suspect they were vultching. no one who regularly plays the arena condones vultching. what we do have is a maddening tendency on the part of ackllied players to fly only within the safety cone of the P106 ack complex. even if they have overwhelming superiority in both overmodelled aircraft against purposely nerfed ones and have 3:1 numerical superiority they still insist on seldomly venturing farther than 1/3 of a sector away from that ack. deacking it is a sound solution. that way when you get your 12 cannon hits on a spit and smoke his engine he can't run off to land you can shoot him running away even if he's on final. that is not a vultch. then you only have to worry about getting 1 ping from the wonderful a superior hispano which was known to kill from outerspace or the equally deadly 2 pings from the world's most powerful rifle cartridge the .303 which could neuter a gnat (or grits) from 10,000 miles out and take off the wing on a 110.
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Storch, did you even read batty's post?? lol
This has nothing to do with anyones opinion of planes and cannons. He said 2 guys VULCHED him. Not only did they deack but they then vulched. So why your statement about deacking the port might hold water, they then went and deacked 15 and vulched. I think he wants to get a little community support to discourage that type of behavior. The rest of your rambling is totally out of left feild and has nothing to do with this thread lol:p
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wow!!! thanks for your imput. I guess that the point of my post went well above the point on your head. it begins with the third sentence and ends with the fourth. it deals with the nesting habits exhibited by the allied flocks. it's been observed and even reported on in a recent issue of Audubon. the rest of the post deals with my favorite topic and I try to include commentary of that nature in every post because;
a. it always draws flies or gnats as BS usually does
b. i like observing flies eating, well we know what flies eat.
thank you for your participation enjoy your meal.
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I got accused for vulching some time ago... was amazing...
The guy flew over the town near 46, he flew through a 1v1 fight that was just over the town. Inorder for the Allied pilot not to get outnumbered I dive in and kill the guy.
Then sudddenly he starts screaming over 200 like a little girl scout that lost her cookies. He called me a lamer, vulcher and hoer.
He accused me of hoing because I killed him on approach to the runway. I still today dont know if he was approaching the runway or engaging in the fight. In my book if someone tries to land in a combat area one shouldnt really expect to get a free landing. If one wants that then pick another field. Its not hard to know what fields are hot in the AvA.
I dont know if Im wrong or not but in my book vulching is killing someone standing still or taking off from the runway. If someone is landed and breaking it could possibly be viewed as a vulch... someone on approach to the runway... imho never a vulch...
Anyways adding a no vulching message on the MOTD could be a good idea... "Killing planes on the runway is considered bad form in this arena."
Tex
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:cry Hum ,, if you up from a base that is being vulched, who is wrong?
are there no other bases to up from?
:cry Hum,, if you follow a wounded plane or someone who draws you into the ack, who is wrong?
I fly both sides and both sides play the same tactics, allies run to ack, axis run to ack, allies vulch, axis vulch, allies gang, axis gang, allies run, axis run. WHO CARES, this is an awsome game and I know it would be nice if everyone played by a set of rules but nothing is perfect.
Rule #1: SURVIVE to fly again.
Rule #2: KILL everyone:t
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well, i geuss posting here was stupid.....
there is no doubt in my mind that this was pure vulching, my wheels were not even off the runway. sehob was also being vulched in a p47.
it took me 3 goes before one of them came headon and i got him whilst still wheels on runway.
like super said, storch you're way off.
kyuk, do you say vulching is good/encouragable in AvA??
i am not whining or moaning that i died, simply trying to, as super said, discourage this behaviour.
geuss no one cares, oh well.
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No Bat,, my point was, your not going to get everyone to follow the unwritten rules. Just adapt to the incident and have fun.
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A piont to remember is no matter who's flack your flying in the flack isn't strong enough the swat a fly out of the sky.:aok
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
[B
Rule #1: SURVIVE to fly again.
Rule #2: KILL everyone:t [/B]
Rule#3: Then run and b**ch about it on the BBS.;)
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A few thoughts:
Some players from the MA don’t know anything but base capture, where suppression makes since. If (big if) there is agreement that AvA isn’t about capture then posting that and a discouragement of vulching would be a good idea.
There are many “easier” ways of achieving kills. Vulching’s just one. If someone believes the end justifies the means they are probably immune to shame.
If you’re doing “it” because “it” was done to you first, that does not make “it” (or you) any less lame.
KY eats paint chips
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
geuss no one cares, oh well.
I'm for it. I hate vulching.
Don't know if it's something to put on the MOTD, because that may be an imposition of personal preference on other people's game styles. But I'm all in favor of denouncing vulchers.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
I'm for it. I hate vulching.
Don't know if it's something to put on the MOTD, because that may be an imposition of personal preference on other people's game styles. But I'm all in favor of denouncing vulchers.
- oldman
Just put the ack back up to .7 (The old CT Standard) and you can save rolls of film. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Don't know if it's something to put on the MOTD, because that may be an imposition of personal preference on other people's game styles. But I'm all in favor of denouncing vulchers.
I put it in the MOTD for the FinRus a couple of weeks ago (No vulching, please!), but the fields being so close there, vulching still occurred - or people just don't read the MOTD... :(
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I pity the fool who takes off under threat of being straffed on the ground. Find another field and come in with speed and altitude to defeat the attackers.
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all they need is a sign :)
(http://www.pogbird.com/X45/vulch_ani.gif)
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Originally posted by storch
wow!!! thanks for your imput. I guess that the point of my post went well above the point on your head. it begins with the third sentence and ends with the fourth. it deals with the nesting habits exhibited by the allied flocks. it's been observed and even reported on in a recent issue of Audubon. the rest of the post deals with my favorite topic and I try to include commentary of that nature in every post because;
a. it always draws flies or gnats as BS usually does
b. i like observing flies eating, well we know what flies eat.
thank you for your participation enjoy your meal.
Spoken like a true 12 year old, which is sad because your about 50 now right? Grow up. This thread had nothing to do with the "allied flock" but about vulching. Why can't you keep it on topic? Make your own thread to cry about the allies hiding in ack. And the luftwhine has been beatin to death.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
Spoken like a true 12 year old, which is sad because your about 50 now right? Grow up. This thread had nothing to do with the "allied flock" but about vulching. Why can't you keep it on topic? Make your own thread to cry about the allies hiding in ack. And the luftwhine has been beatin to death.
Supa, you clearly do not know who you are talking too in that insolent manner. Storch is the arbiter of all player actions, if you do not conform to his standards you are punished by being labeled as such here on the BBS.
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Batfink
I totally do agree with you that vulching should be discouraged... no arguing there at all...
Tex
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$5 to whoever vulches batstink and makes him cry again...
:D
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Originally posted by Eagler
all they need is a sign :)
(http://www.pogbird.com/X45/vulch_ani.gif)
:rofl :rofl :lol :lol :rofl :rofl
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Vulching is one thing.
However, strafing a field and any planes that are attempting to up or land that is fully acked and defended is something that occured and is historical.
I strafed a control tower today just for fun. :aok
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Yes, it happened in real life.
A full squadron of Tempests made a full-throttle on-the-deck pass over a German field. One pass. Only 2 planes made it out the other side. And one was so badly damaged it didn't make it very far. There was a story about this from the surviving pilot's point of view.
Yes it happened.
But not at all like we see it in AH.
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BatFink, I was Flyin SFer's wing that night and gave him crap over it afterwards. Everyone in our squad is aware that Vulching is loooked down upon. Be know that soon as your wheels leave the ground your fair game :aok
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Originally posted by Eagler
all they need is a sign :)
(http://www.pogbird.com/X45/vulch_ani.gif)
:lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Krusty
Yes, it happened in real life.
A full squadron of Tempests made a full-throttle on-the-deck pass over a German field. One pass. Only 2 planes made it out the other side. And one was so badly damaged it didn't make it very far. There was a story about this from the surviving pilot's point of view.
Yes it happened.
But not at all like we see it in AH.
Been reading "The Big Show" again eh?
I been reading "Down to Earth" Strafing Aces of the Eighth Air Force.
Also in real life things were not so open. It was harder to see the fields and likewise the gunners had less warning if the strafers didnt just drop straight down but followed proceedure to come in on the deck from miles away.
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Originally posted by storch
[B....]even if they have overwhelming superiority in both overmodelled aircraft against purposely nerfed ones and have 3:1 numerical superiority they still insist on seldomly venturing farther than 1/3 of a sector away from that ack. deacking it is a sound solution. that way when you get your 12 cannon hits on a spit and smoke his engine he can't run off to land you can shoot him running away even if he's on final. that is not a vultch. then you only have to worry about getting 1 ping from the wonderful a superior hispano which was known to kill from outerspace or the equally deadly 2 pings from the world's most powerful rifle cartridge the .303 which could neuter a gnat (or grits) from 10,000 miles out and take off the wing... on a 110. [/B]
Wow, a beaujolais, a merlot, a chardonnay, a chianti and a moselle all in one bottle!
I give it a 2 on a scale of 10.
Needs cheese.
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Originally posted by Toad
Wow, a beaujolais, a merlot, a chardonnay, a chianti and a moselle all in one bottle!
I give it a 2 on a scale of 10.
Needs cheese.
we have plenty of cheese, you're here.
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Originally posted by storch
I don't suspect they were vultching. no one who regularly plays the arena condones vultching. what we do have is a maddening tendency on the part of ackllied players to fly only within the safety cone of the P106 ack complex. even if they have overwhelming superiority in both overmodelled aircraft against purposely nerfed ones and have 3:1 numerical superiority they still insist on seldomly venturing farther than 1/3 of a sector away from that ack. deacking it is a sound solution. that way when you get your 12 cannon hits on a spit and smoke his engine he can't run off to land you can shoot him running away even if he's on final. that is not a vultch. then you only have to worry about getting 1 ping from the wonderful a superior hispano which was known to kill from outerspace or the equally deadly 2 pings from the world's most powerful rifle cartridge the .303 which could neuter a gnat (or grits) from 10,000 miles out and take off the wing on a 110.
managed to get all 3 conspiracy theories into one sentence Storchy - good job - I like it ;)
And g'day btw
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economy of words is a beautiful thing. g'day to you too redd, long time coming back soon?
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Originally posted by OntosMk1
Be know that soon as your wheels leave the ground your fair game :aok
Wrong
“Wheels on pavement” is the wrong definition of vulching. Someone 120 mph 50 ft off , landing or uping, is still really easy-lame. All such loser-ly behavior is discouraged in the AvA. If you don’t want to fight – go to the MA.
A good rule of thumb is to give’em a minimum of a couple miles, thousand or so feet, a chance to get their speed up, and stay out of the multi-plane pounce. If they run to their ack, follow’em in and blow‘em up.
There is no reason to suppress a base in the AvA. The guy uping could move back to a different base but that means you wait longer for the fight, less fighting = less fun.
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Originally posted by storch
neuter a gnat (or grits)
LMFAO...I missed this the first time around because quite frankly I dont read your pathetic drivel all the way through most of the time Storch. All I can say in my defence is at least I, unlike you, have some balls to lose so that I can be neutered in the first place. :aok
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Originally posted by OntosMk1
BatFink, I was Flyin SFer's wing that night and gave him crap over it afterwards. Everyone in our squad is aware that Vulching is loooked down upon. :aok
Let it be known that punishment was levied out to the culprit...
48 hours ration of tea and crumpets only...
One week of flying without his stinky leather boots and scarf..!
Seriously, as Ontosmk1 reported, the guilty one was reprimanded by the squad.
Regards...
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Originally posted by KONG1
Wrong
“Wheels on pavement” is the wrong definition of vulching. Someone 120 mph 50 ft off , landing or uping, is still really easy-lame. All such loser-ly behavior is discouraged in the AvA. If you don’t want to fight – go to the MA.
A good rule of thumb is to give’em a minimum of a couple miles, thousand or so feet, a chance to get their speed up, and stay out of the multi-plane pounce. If they run to their ack, follow’em in and blow‘em up.
There is no reason to suppress a base in the AvA. The guy uping could move back to a different base but that means you wait longer for the fight, less fighting = less fun.
I agree with all of this.
- oldman
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Originally posted by KONG1
Wrong
�Wheels on pavement� is the wrong definition of vulching. Someone 120 mph 50 ft off , landing or uping, is still really easy-lame. All such loser-ly behavior is discouraged in the AvA. If you don�t want to fight � go to the MA.
A good rule of thumb is to give�em a minimum of a couple miles, thousand or so feet, a chance to get their speed up, and stay out of the multi-plane pounce. If they run to their ack, follow�em in and blow�em up.
There is no reason to suppress a base in the AvA. The guy uping could move back to a different base but that means you wait longer for the fight, less fighting = less fun.
I agree 100%..!
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Originally posted by KONG1
Wrong
“Wheels on pavement” is the wrong definition of vulching. Someone 120 mph 50 ft off , landing or uping, is still really easy-lame. All such loser-ly behavior is discouraged in the AvA. If you don’t want to fight – go to the MA.
A good rule of thumb is to give’em a minimum of a couple miles, thousand or so feet, a chance to get their speed up, and stay out of the multi-plane pounce. If they run to their ack, follow’em in and blow‘em up.
There is no reason to suppress a base in the AvA. The guy uping could move back to a different base but that means you wait longer for the fight, less fighting = less fun.
This is rich. JG54 will beat the crap out of you taking off or landing. They suppress air bases all the time. During the early part of this setup you guys had 110s, and 109s over Allied bases constantly. I was killed Tuesday night trying to land by a JG54 Fw190 driver. Right off the runway. I didnt come here and whine about it. Actually I was more mad at myself knowing the aggressive manner in which JG54 operates , I should have left myself more options. Your CO is constantly taunting the Allies about being in the ack, and a lack of aggressiveness. If you asked for rain you shouldn't whine about the mud.
:aok
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Originally posted by Shifty
JG54 will beat the crap out of you taking off or landing
Your painting with a broad brush.
Addendum to vulching rules: If someone has been running from you for a sector and a half and tries to land just so they can say “they were shot when landing” then shooting them wheels down and stopped is OK.
Edit - Addendum 2: It's OK to blow up a ditcher.
Edit 2 - Addendum 3: Chutes are just plain fun!
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Originally posted by Furball
$5 to whoever vulches batstink and makes him cry again...
:D
:lol
honestly, anyone in the CT that has flown with or against me will back me up when i say i dont care about score or dying.
I didnt care about being vulched, or i would have upped another field.
just wanted to put the names of the vulchers up for all to see.
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Originally posted by KONG1
Your painting with a broad brush.
Addendum to vulching rules: If someone has been running from you for a sector and a half and tries to land just so they can say “they were shot when landing” then shooting them wheels down and stopped is OK.
Edit - Addendum 2: It's OK to blow up a ditcher.
Edit 2 - Addendum 3: Chutes are just plain fun!
What your saying is it's okay if you do it. Because you can find a reason to justify it. If the other side does it you can find a reason to say it's wrong. Typical.:lol
Thats why this whole arguement is wasted gas. Kill em where and when you can . If their death whines annoy you un-tune 200.
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Originally posted by Shifty
What your saying is...
What your saying is, your mama still spanks your bottom and you like it.
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Originally posted by KONG1
What your saying is, your mama still spanks your bottom and you like it.
It's gotta be tough when you run out of your BS excuses, and have to resort to stupidity. :rofl
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slow the curve down a bit KONG then pitch it again.
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Originally posted by Shifty
It's gotta be tough...
It’s gotta be tough to be so dense as to not understand an example of putting your words in somebody elses mouth.
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If you don't like whats put in your mouth close it.
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Originally posted by Shifty
If you don't like whats put in your mouth close it.
If you don't like what’s put in your mouth swallow.
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Originally posted by storch
economy of words is a beautiful thing. g'day to you too redd, long time coming back soon?
Had a few sorties in MA , dont feel "hooked" yet , see what happens.
I'd probably be keener if they hadn't totally nerfed the Spit Xv1 in comparison to it's actual rated performance. When are they going to start modelling these planes correctly.
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Originally posted by KONG1
If you don't like what’s put in your mouth swallow.
:lol
Whats the matter? You have to use my line, because you can't come up with your own. Maybe your daddy Storch will help you some more.
I know the next step . It's the old everybody picks on JG54 routine. Don't even go there. I'm not complaining about JG54. In fact I admire the aggresiveness you guys fly with. I hope to get the 78th to that level someday. What I'm saying is............. You guys vultch, you guys HO , you guys do whatever it takes to win. Nothing wrong with that.
However for JG54 members to get on here and say it shouldn't be done... Sorry that is way too funny. It's like when Storch complains about the HurriII being a HO machine , after the Allies have had their lips ripped off all week by HOing 110s. It's funny. So why act like it's a bad thing if others do it? You guys fly like it's a war. So why come in here and talk like it's a social club with rules.
You guys know when you get the machine rolling , you run amuck killing everything no matter if takes vultching, HOing, or just lurking a mile away and attacking the poor bastages that up from there. Victory takes on a life of it's own . You have the iniative and you just can't stop. Why should you? Your supposed to play to win. If your not ,your wasting your time.
This is simulated killing , as well as simulated flying. Your not supposed to make it easier on the other side. If the powers that be think this is such a problem............. Turn up the ack. While your at it turn up the repair times, and turn on the strat. I think the BOB portion would have been a hell of a lot more interesting if all the damage the LW did the first week, had to be over come. It's not like this is a tiny map. If the Germans won the war in the first week. Pat em on the back and reset the map. After all this is a war game as well. The number of players suffered when you tried to keep this arena as a quaint little dueling arena.
Personally I think anybody that takes the iniative to go across the channel, attack a base. Then proceeds to knock down it's defenses , and destroy it's ability to launch aircraft ought to be rewarded. Sooner or later everybodys got their lumps comng to them.:aok
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Originally posted by KONG1
If you don't like what’s put in your mouth swallow.
Thats interesting, how does that make you feel?
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Originally posted by storch
we have plenty of cheese, you're here.
That's perfect!
You got an ocean of whine and now plenty of cheese!
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Originally posted by Furball
$5 to whoever vulches batstink and makes him cry again...
:D
I second it.... another $5 to the pot.
LOL, anyone stupid enough to take off at capped fields deserves what they get.
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do you guys think that vulching is ok? is that what most people want?
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I'd rather have a few vulchers and 40 ppl in the arena than only 5 in the room total, no vulching, flying around looking for a fight
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Originally posted by Grits
Thats interesting, how does that make you feel?
:lol
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:aok
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Vulching/strafing aircraft that are landing or taking off is historically accurate. Do you know how most of the Axis a/c (and almost all Me262's) were shot down in late 1944 and 1945?
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Originally posted by Juntts
Vulching/strafing aircraft that are landing or taking off is historically accurate. Do you know how most of the Axis a/c (and almost all Me262's) were shot down in late 1944 and 1945?
how?
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Originally posted by SuperDud
how?
Mainly with bullets. Some were killed though by the phone having to answered so the plane was on autopilot. A few have been lost to wife's or girlfriends sneaking up behind the pilot covering his eyes with her hands and yelling "Guess Who"?
Oh wait which ones we talking the about? The real planes we fly or those black and white ones on History Channel??:huh
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April 16, 1945. Look it up.
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Originally posted by Fencer51
April 16, 1945. Look it up.
...er....British liberated Bergen-Belsen....Russians started Berlin offensive....all very good things. I just sense that there must have been a superman who got vulched, though.
- oldman
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I remember when I started, getting vulched in the MA was what directed me to the Old CT.
I usally track down the vulching pilot all the way home. I dont care if If I get shot down on the way back,
B@tfink, we think these forums a have purpose, but in the most case serious questions are are vulched by certian members who think any question or comment is a case of whinning, these forums are pointless.
Its allways find till the "look the other way crowd", till they get vulched and then its a war of words.
So from what I have been reading Most must want vulching, because they really dont address the issue but rag on you. So be warned no more circleing a airbase waiting for flyers to get alt, a kill is a kill, after all we must want to pad our scores.
maybe we could stop the next raid by vulching the rear fields, think of the kills landed when you vulch a string of bombers rolling down the runway!
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Originally posted by Oldman731
...er....British liberated Bergen-Belsen....Russians started Berlin offensive....all very good things. I just sense that there must have been a superman who got vulched, though.
- oldman
Biggest strafing raid in 8th AF history. HUNDREDS of planes shot up on the ground.
I also refer you to January 1, 1945.
So from what I have been reading Most must want vulching, because they really dont address the issue but rag on you. So be warned no more circleing a airbase waiting for flyers to get alt, a kill is a kill, after all we must want to pad our scores.
maybe we could stop the next raid by vulching the rear fields, think of the kills landed when you vulch a string of bombers rolling down the runway! [/B]
The 8th AF counted strafing scores as kills. I do not believe that a Mustang attacking an airbase on the continent would have 'circled' the base allowing the LW to get alt. This is a war game, not a dueling game. You sound like you want to go fly some sort of duel all the time, there is an arena for that. Life and flying fighters are not condusive to fairness.
I remember once a few months ago when my squad was attacking a field to take out the ammo and fuel. As I came in 2 flights of buffs and 3 fighters upped. I just happened to be flying at a slight angle to the runway just approaching the field at 350mph. Needless to say my 6 rockets went onto the runway rather than the fuel dump. :aok
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Originally posted by Fencer51
This is a war game, not a dueling game.
Only partly true. Particularly in AvA, there's no war to win. Viewed another way, there is no objective goal. You simply fly to fight and, in this arena, to reenact a bit of history. To the extent that the history reenactment discourages the fighting, rather than encouraging it, some think it detracts from the enjoyment.
Plus, I've never really understood what enjoyment someone gets from shooting up a guy who can't fight back.
- oldman (now don't get me started on fragging)
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Only partly true. Particularly in AvA, there's no war to win. Viewed another way, there is no objective goal. You simply fly to fight and, in this arena, to reenact a bit of history. To the extent that the history reenactment discourages the fighting, rather than encouraging it, some think it detracts from the enjoyment.
Plus, I've never really understood what enjoyment someone gets from shooting up a guy who can't fight back.
- oldman (now don't get me started on fragging)
There would be a war to win if it was allowed to happen. The constant furball between Callias , and Dover, is not reenacting history.
I agree with you on the vulching, I don't understand the satisfaction myself. There is no need to get vulched though. If the field you are at is under attack, or there is combat in the very near vicinity............ Your death is due to your choice of takeoff locations as much as any other reason.
If somebody, anybody, is trying to knock out a base attacking aircraft upping from the field is not going to be vulching it's going be required tactics...................... .. So where do you draw the line between vulching , and suppressing.
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Oldman I agree,
Sometimes I think the desire to stick to historical facts or precieved historical facts detracts from the game play. I would rather have a fair fight with another player instead of ruining their game play expeirence.
Make the game totally realistic: makeing some planes break down, mechcanical failures in flight, in takeoff or landing. defective bombs that dont explode on contact or worse explode in flight. When a player is capture or kill your done period. Please pay another 14.99 to start a new Pilot. How far do you all want to go with this historical junk?
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Gotta call the BS on this vulching is historical thing. Granted vulching really happened…but…that’s not why players want do it.
“Hey man I’m trying my best to be an uber accurate reenactor of WWII and you’s guy’s are trying to deprive me of my ability to be as real as possible”………My Granny’s Fanny
Fact is you want to vulch because you need to see something go boom, I win if I “kill” no matter how, every time I fight I “die”, I beat up 1st graders when I was 12 cause 2nd graders were too tough, I’ll scratch your car cause I’m scared to confront you, I want to play in god mode with infinite ammo so I can pwn, weak kneed, lilly livered, limp wristed, I must have self-esteem, pansy boys in diapers.
(Sorry got carried away there):D
You have the right to want what you want, just be honest about why.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
how?
You are being a funny lad:
By strafing them on takeoff or landing approach :o
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Originally posted by KONG1
Gotta call the BS on this vulching is historical thing. Granted vulching really happened…but…that’s not why players want do it.
“Hey man I’m trying my best to be an uber accurate reenactor of WWII and you’s guy’s are trying to deprive me of my ability to be as real as possible”………My Granny’s Fanny
Fact is you want to vulch because you need to see something go boom, I win if I “kill” no matter how, every time I fight I “die”, I beat up 1st graders when I was 12 cause 2nd graders were too tough, I’ll scratch your car cause I’m scared to confront you, I want to play in god mode with infinite ammo so I can pwn, weak kneed, lilly livered, limp wristed, I must have self-esteem, pansy boys in diapers.
(Sorry got carried away there):D
You have the right to want what you want, just be honest about why.
Maybe base capture ability should just be turned off completely. Then just move the map with the ebb , and flow of the actual war. As bad as I hate to get vulched. I can see it being a useful tactic when trying to take a base.
Thats the only time I can see it having a purpose other then what you described above.
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Only partly true. Particularly in AvA, there's no war to win. Viewed another way, there is no objective goal. You simply fly to fight and, in this arena, to reenact a bit of history. To the extent that the history reenactment discourages the fighting, rather than encouraging it, some think it detracts from the enjoyment.
and
Sometimes I think the desire to stick to historical facts or precieved historical facts detracts from the game play.
I guess I do not understand this arena. I thought this was a historical arena, could someone on the AvA staff explain what the purpose of this arena is? I thought the dueling arena is where fair fights are to take plance.
Plus, I've never really understood what enjoyment someone gets from shooting up a guy who can't fight back.
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I would rather have a fair fight with another player instead of ruining their game play expeirence.
Do you guys ever ‘bounce’ someone that doesn’t see you?
Do you ever go and help someone who has a bandit on his 6 and is in danger of getting shot down?
Do you dive through a furball and get the guy extending on the deck who is battle damaged?
Ever shoot someone and knock off his elevators or flaps and then finish him off?
Do you ever shoot down someone who is hanging on his prop?
Ever shoot at a bomber on its bomb run and get no return fire?
I would argue that all these examples are opponents who are either not capable of fighting back or the act of ruining someone else’s gameplay as you define it. I call it combat. I thought this was a combat flight simulation not a dueling flight simulation.
What is the difference of shooting someone on the runway? Is it because they are closer to the ground? Is it because they have their wheels down? Why is this any different than bouncing someone that doesn’t see you. I will tell you why, the guy taking off has heard the air raid sirens and therefore is warned and KNOWS that someone is nearby and has chosen to take off anyway. Most of the time when this occurs the ack is shooting at you and quite frequently a few flak panzers or M16s as well. This can make it more dangerous than fighting at altitude as you have no control on the chances of dying it is up to the skill of the defenders.
And Kong, nicely incoherent post. However I will confess. I like to strafe. I like seeing the 6 50cals chew across the tarmac and into a plane. It reminds me of the countless gun camera films I have seen of strafing Luftwaffe bases. I respect those allied pilots who were aces by strafing. The 8th AF was the only American Air Force to count strafing victories as kills. After the war these were disallowed. This is a shame as the loss of 8th Air Force pilots to ack was greater than those to LW fighters. It was far more dangerous to dive down and strafe a field than to fight LW fighters at altitude. If I remember correctly the 357th FG did not do a lot of strafing and therefore had the lowest loss rate of any FG. They also didn’t get as many kills as the other groups because of it.
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Again, Fencer has a strong point here.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Plus, I've never really understood what enjoyment someone gets from shooting up a guy who can't fight back.
Me neither. (Well, perhaps in the MA, when capturing a field with squadmates, but different rules apply there). But in here (AvA, not the forum), I don't see the need for vulching. Let them up, and then fight them.
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Difference between vulching and in flight fighting.
In flight, lessons learn the hard way:
1) You climb out of a furball to the point that you are hanging on your prop... yes expect to get pinged
2)Do you ever go and help someone who has a bandit on his 6 and is in danger of getting shot down? Yes I do this alot, many of use do, many dont.
3)Do you dive through a furball and get the guy extending on the deck who is battle damaged? Yes, everyone does this. Your lying if you say You dont.
4) Ever shoot someone and knock off his elevators or flaps and then finish him off? yes again everyone does this. again in flight fight
5) Do you ever shoot down someone who is hanging on his prop? Yes everyone does this. again in flight fight
6)Ever shoot at a bomber on its bomb run and get no return fire? Yes again everyone does this. Again in flight fight.
Now. hitting a plane on the runway when landing or taking off yes this is vulching.
Trying to land a middle of an attack on the airfield, same logic as trying to take off from a irfield under attack. take off from another field or land at another field. this is the grey area Vulching or surpressing? Its up to the piolt of the plane.
Surpressing a field, no need if there is no war to win as Oldman stated in a pervious post.
Fencer51 you quote me about not wanting to ruin the game play of other players. but seemed not to responed to the othe rpart of my part of my posting:
Make the game totally realistic: makeing some planes break down, mechcanical failures in flight, in takeoff or landing. defective bombs that dont explode on contact or worse explode in flight. When a player is capture or kill your done period. Please pay another 14.99 to start a new Pilot. How far do you all want to go with this historical junk?
Again, my take from the posting on naming tand shaming the vulchers, that vulching will be tolerated. Making my point about this becoming a mini MA
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Let’s suppose for arguments sake vulching becomes a regular acceptable expected behavior in the AvA. Players won’t keep upping to protect the town, nobody cares about the town. You won’t be able to “get your vulch on” because they’ll just move back. All it would accomplish would be to increase the time between fights.
Maybe HT will add some parked drones in offline mode so Fencer can see “the 6 50cals chew across the tarmac and into a plane”:)
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Instead of them flying around in a circle have the fighters vulch every time you up a plane.This way you have to kill the fighters from the ground or hit the runway and hope for the best.:lol
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Originally posted by Fencer51
I guess I do not understand this arena. I thought this was a historical arena, could someone on the AvA staff explain what the purpose of this arena is? I thought the dueling arena is where fair fights are to take plance.
Heh. I was all set to go off on another rant, and thought better of it.
The "purpose" of the arena is to have an axis v. allies plane set, generally in a particular time frame, and with some effort made to have settings that are more "realistic" than those in place in the MA. You will get no agreement, from players, staffers or anyone else, beyond that.
Which is really why we're arguing. MY view of the purpose of the arena is to have exciting aerial fights that are as historically accurate as possible, in which each player has a sporting chance of survival. But that's not YOUR view, and I'm comfortable with that. Just expect that I'm going to complain if I think you're being a weenie with the way you fly or fight! (Note: Your bomber missions will not draw such a complaint.)
And Shifty, you geezer, furballs across the Channel ARE historically accurate. For fighter pilots, that's generally what the war was in western Europe between mid-1940 and mid-1944, although the fights gradually moved inland and followed the paths of the bomber formations. (For our purposes, it doesn't matter much if the oldman crashes into water or dirt.) As to the historical accuracy of territorial capture in AH....please. When, in the entire war, did one side capture an airfield by swarming it with fighters and then dropping a squad or two of infantry?
- oldman
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Originally posted by Juntts
You are being a funny lad:
By strafing them on takeoff or landing approach :o
Sorry, I was teh drunk last nite!:D
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Originally posted by Oldman731
And Shifty, you geezer, furballs across the Channel ARE historically accurate. For fighter pilots, that's generally what the war was in western Europe between mid-1940 and mid-1944, although the fights gradually moved inland and followed the paths of the bomber formations. (For our purposes, it doesn't matter much if the oldman crashes into water or dirt.) As to the historical accuracy of territorial capture in AH....please. When, in the entire war, did one side capture an airfield by swarming it with fighters and then dropping a squad or two of infantry?
- oldman
Your right I am a geezer. But a Shifty geezer.:p
As far as your question......."When, in the entire war, did one side capture an airfield by swarming it with fighters and then dropping a squad or two of infantry?'
I think it was right around the same time that fighter pilots started getting killed , and being reincarnated in the tower from where their last mission started.;)
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Originally posted by 1azbaer
Make the game totally realistic: makeing some planes break down, mechcanical failures in flight, in takeoff or landing. defective bombs that dont explode on contact or worse explode in flight. When a player is capture or kill your done period. Please pay another 14.99 to start a new Pilot. How far do you all want to go with this historical junk?
Sorry I just thought this was off topic but I will be happy to respond.
I believe that what you are talking about here is not germain to the discussion. We are presented with a plane set, a terrain.. lets say an environment in which we as players will enjoy the combat simulation. We can make this as realistic as we wish and that is what the discussion is about. You are asking questions here that are more rightfully asked of HTC. We are players are not capable of making those decisions. I myself would vote no to paying more. But you were going to cancel your account over last Sunday, so I doubt you would disagree with me here.
Heh. I was all set to go off on another rant, and thought better of it.
The "purpose" of the arena is to have an axis v. allies plane set, generally in a particular time frame, and with some effort made to have settings that are more "realistic" than those in place in the MA. You will get no agreement, from players, staffers or anyone else, beyond that.
Which is really why we're arguing. MY view of the purpose of the arena is to have exciting aerial fights that are as historically accurate as possible, in which each player has a sporting chance of survival. But that's not YOUR view, and I'm comfortable with that. Just expect that I'm going to complain if I think you're being a weenie with the way you fly or fight! (Note: Your bomber missions will not draw such a complaint.)
Oldman, we are not arguing here. I am not mad about anything and hold no grudge against anyone involved in this discussion. I have yet to strafe anyone or to use your term "vulch" in the AvA. I personally will be more than happy to bow to the majority and follow conventional wisdom as to the use of strafing attacks on airfields. I guess I would like to confess that I did make a pass on an airfield just to strafe the control tower but again, that was for fun and the thrill of it. Took 1 hit too. Darn acks. :eek:
Now, if we are going to agree that "vulching" is bad. Where do we draw the line? How far do we let the enemy get from the airfield. What altitude should we let them get? This high mindedness of not vulching is all well and good, but we cannot just let the "No Vulching Please" sign go up without definitions.
1azbaer,
Thanks for the response to the questions. How are the actions which you admitt too, and I too have done numerous times, any different than straffing someone landing or taking off? Just because they are over the airfield? That is a more protected area than most of the map.
Let’s suppose for arguments sake vulching becomes a regular acceptable expected behavior in the AvA. Players won’t keep upping to protect the town, nobody cares about the town. You won’t be able to “get your vulch on” because they’ll just move back. All it would accomplish would be to increase the time between fights.
Kong, I have to agree, that is what will happen. That's what happened to me when I was strafed on the runway during the BoB time period.
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Originally posted by Shifty
Your right I am a geezer. But a Shifty geezer.:p
As far as your question......."When, in the entire war, did one side capture an airfield by swarming it with fighters and then dropping a squad or two of infantry?'
I think it was right around the same time that fighter pilots started getting killed , and being reincarnated in the tower from where their last mission started.;)
not a squad or two but 10 homicide bombers
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People come to A vs A to get away from the normal bs of the MA. If vulching, 25k alt monkeys become the norm aGAIN, then all the good will that was generated by ending the CT will be lost.
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Originally posted by storch
not a squad or two but 10 homicide bombers
An even better example.:aok
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Originally posted by bj229r
People come to A vs A to get away from the normal bs of the MA. If vulching, 25k alt monkeys become the norm aGAIN, then all the good will that was generated by ending the CT will be lost.
it's there right now. fortuitously they are fairly green and die easily but joedog and kongkyuk just won't come down except to cherry pick.
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cherry picking and alt monkies are fair enough. fly how you want.
vulching a plane that is wheels down does not belong in this arena.
period.
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If I'm in on a base with a heavy 47, I'm going to blast the ord,dar and fuel.
If anyone is stupid enough to try and up while the base is being hit with rockets and bombs then they are going to get hit too. I will blast those 8 50's right into anything upping, once the base is closed for fuel,ord and the dar is dead then I'm off to land, Is that vulching ? I think not, I think it's flying the 47 in a ground attack role for which it was designed to do.
If LW are dumb enough to try and up through this maelstrom then what can you say ?:aok
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Originally posted by Big G
If I'm in on a base with a heavy 47, I'm going to blast the ord,dar and fuel.
If anyone is stupid enough to try and up while the base is being hit with rockets and bombs then they are going to get hit too. I will blast those 8 50's right into anything upping, once the base is closed for fuel,ord and the dar is dead then I'm off to land, Is that vulching ? I think not, I think it's flying the 47 in a ground attack role for which it was designed to do.
If LW are dumb enough to try and up through this maelstrom then what can you say ?:aok
Lotta words, simple concept, let me paraphrase:
If someone ups while I’m being lame, I'll be even more lame.
:cool:
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Let me help you out there Kong:
You up while I'm hitting the base, you end up in the tower again very quickly, it's called strafing or "targets of opprortunity" ( I think)
:aok
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Originally posted by Big G
( I think)
You do?
SYSTEM: A fine has been levied for use of the thumbs up smiley thing in consecutive posts.
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The argument of vulching has been around since the begining. Same old arguments.Those that have been around know it.
Arena *design* will funnel the type of play. Very hard to get all players to agree to type of play by any honor.
I respect Fencer's historical ambitions as friend and foe.
I respect Oldman for his work on an arena that at least has some semblance of having fights along with better plane balance.
The AvA is better because its not as crowded. However, when I log on as allies I still see high LW fighting in numbers which is no different than the MA. What to do. Either I have the choice of giving easy kills or do the same.
Myself, I've always enjoyed solo flying and just going at it so this game is not in my favor.
The early years of AW had the best arena. It was small enough to be personal yet large enough (70-100) to get *varied fights* (that's the key). Anything went. Vulching, DoK bloodpigs, etc.
A few flew at 25k and more than a few were hunted for it:) Most fights were under 10k. It takes all kinds or it'd be boring. You flew to make your opponent miserable for the night. Hate is good and makes you a better pilot. But it was ALWAYS FUN!
What you really need is a 3rd arena.
The MA for the wild pork (those folks pay and are entitled to it)
A true historical arena for those folks that like it and yes strafing a runway would be viable;-)
The 3rd arena would be a true *fighting* arena. ..much like old AW. Some of you AHers fighter jocks who never knew it would really like it :) Porking would be next to nill as well as base capture. This would force more fights otherwise there would be nothing to do. The bases would be positioned to limit gangbangs although they would still exist,you could at least use your SA to avoid it or even tag it. Remember, gangbangs are primarily caused by base pork/capture because they *channel* the fights *at or near*the bases as opposed to open ground.
That way everyone is happy which should be the intent.
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Originally posted by HardRock
... However, when I log on as allies I still see high LW fighting in numbers which is no different than the MA. What to do. Either I have the choice of giving easy kills or do the same. ...
When were you on last time? The allies have had the numbers for the last 2-3 weeks... I'd suggest you join the side with lower numbers.
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Obviously during non mission times.
And its not numbers per se. Fight style in numbers.
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