Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: StarOfAfrica2 on February 12, 2006, 12:10:28 AM
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Looking at finally upgrading my video card.
Of course I'm a cheap bastige.
I've pretty much decided its going to be a Geforce 6800. I've narrowed the manufacturers down to Leadtek, MSI or eVGA. My question is, how much are the extra 4 pipelines worth in the 6800GT over the 6800GS? I can buy a GS considerably cheaper than a comparable GT. The only difference I can see is 12 pipelines vs 16. The GS is going to be so far beyond what I've got now that I'm really not sure I'd notice the difference. So just how important are those extra pipes for AH2?
*edit
Just for giggles, consider also the 6800XT. Even cheaper yet than the GS and still has 12 pipelines. Slower processor speed. But it uses the same chip, so the GPU should clock up to match the GS speeds.
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The below computer runs full sliders/full vis range, 512 textures at 30-70 FPS.
*$89.00 Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000PRO-G Socket 478 Intel 865PE ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
*$229.00 XFX PVT40KND Geforce 6800 128MB DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card - Retail
*$196.99 Intel Pentium 4 3.0C Northwood 800MHz FSB Socket 478 Processor Model RK80532PG080512 - OEM
*$69.99 Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0350 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - OEM
*$82.55 CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model VS1GBKIT400 - Retail
Note that it's a regular 6800; the apparently "inferior" one. Running Omega drivers. Also note that AH is more CPU dependant than video card dependant.
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I realize the CPU is more important for AH2, but thats why I'm asking if those extra pipes make any difference on the video card.
I was totally unsatisfied with the socket 754 MOBO I had, but dont want to throw away the brand new 64 bit processor I just bought. So I bought a 754 MOBO that has PCIe video slot, and I'm going to buy a video card that can last through my next MOBO/CPU upgrade. It doesnt matter if I buy the 6800XT, the 6800, the 6800GS, the 6800GT or the 6800Ultra. They all use the same GPU chip. But from what I've read if you buy the 12 pipeline model you cant unlock the other 4. So do I spend 150 bucks for a 6800XT, 190 bucks for a 6800GS with the same pipes but faster GPU and memory, or spend 250 bucks for a 6800GT with all 16 pipelines open?
These are all 256MB x16 PCIe video cards.
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Well, just going from what I've heard, the speed of an AGP video card, much less a PCIe, is much more than that of the CPUs these days. I have no knowledge of what pipelines even are, so I'll just stop at that. Guess I was kinda useless. :D
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ATI RADEON X800GT 256MB PCI EXPRESS DDR3 DUAL DVI HDTV #X800GT256MB
256 mb, 8 pipelines, Pci-E 160$ at Mwave.
Will know more when it arrives next week. :)
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Pipelines explained -
http://www.overclock.net/faqs/28489-what-gpu-pipelines.html
Basically more pipelines = less time per frame = faster fps.
I use a 6800GT built by BFG, awesome video card.
{edit} Well I did use a 6800GT by BFG, just ordered a 7800GS built by BFG, currently no AGP 7800GT's are being done/considered by nVidia.
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Thanks Kev. Pretty much what I had about decided. Whats the point in buying the faster 6800 and buying the cheap model with only 12 pipes?
The 7800s still have some bugs to work out. I'll be happy with the 6800. After all, I've gone this long with my 5900. :)
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Some of the 6800GS can have the 4 disabled pipelines unlocked using Rivatuner, you effectively get a 6800GT then.
7800GS needs new verison of Rivatuner to be able to unlock the disabled 4 pipes. If it works you end up with a 7800GT.
Plenty info on the web for unlocking the disabled pipelines, just do a search for 6800GS + unlock.
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The 7800s still have some bugs to work out.
I have a 7800gt and havent seen any bugs in AH or windows .
Edit , as far as a pipe mod to unlock the extra quad , the pipes are disabled in the hardware on my 7800GT as well as on the 7800gs, (laser cut) the odds of using rivatuner on these card is next to zero . Nvidia learned from the 6800gs i guess .
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7800GS is that new people are specualting that the extra pipes will need either a BIOS flash or Rivatuner, possibly both.
Until Rivatuner supports it, it's unknown.
Still going to be a step up from my 6800GT, same pipes (16), faster core, faster mem, overclocks better. Should be slightly faster than a 6800ultra.
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Actually no.
With the 6800 GS Nvidia has gone a new route. In the old 6800 AGP line, you could unlock the extra pipelines. Not so with the PCIe versions.
With the new lines, Nvidia has created 2 separate chipsets. One full version with all the pipes, and another one with fewer pipes as a budget chip. They dont just turn them off. The chip is built in the factory with fewer pipes. No more softmodding video cards to unlock pipes.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODgy
I would guess that this is the route they will take with all future chips as well.
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SOA - might want to check out this:
http://shop.ati.com/searchresults.asp?dept_id=39
Radeon® X800 Pro PCI Express® 256MB - REFURB*
Price: $179.00
I bought an AGP version of this card (REFURB) about 6 months ago, and aI love it. Its in perfect shape.
Comes with a full 3-year warranty from ATI, just like new.
If you dont have an issue with ATI cards, I think this is a better option than any Geforce6800.
This card will more than adequately run top notch graphics in relevantly new games, given you have the CPU and RAM to back it up.
Just a suggestion!
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I dont have a problem with ATI cards per se. Well ok I do, but my reasons arent .......... reasonable? :) I just had alot of bad experience with ATI in the past and I promised myself I wouldnt ever intentionally own another one. They have tempted me lately though I have to admit. But still the 6800GT tends to be either the equal of the x800 or better. Given nearly equal performance, I'll take the Nvidia card. I tend to be a bit stubborn where such things are concerned.
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Same here, SOA. As much as I try to like them, the nVidia's have always given me a more trouble-free ride.
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Ive owned both ati and nvidia . I havent had any real complains against ati since the first radeon 64 ddr. I did return an early 9700pro because of the studder bug. The last nvidia card i had before this 7800gt was a ti4600, an i never had a problem with it . Ati has come along way since the first radeon , ive had no issues with 9600pro 9800pro x800pro . Usually it comes down to what games you play , Ati and nvidia are a coin toss in D3D , Nvidia is better in openGL . In AH i really dont think their is much of a difference between the two , My x800pro (12 pipes) ran great and so does this 7800 (20 pipes), i used to think Ati had better Antialiasing , but the 7800's AA is just as good as my x800 . If i were in the market right now , id look for a x800gto2 , some have the extra 4 pipes (16) unlocked from the factory, but from what ive read if they arent unlocked , they are almost guaranteed to be functional . http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102646
It has an r480 core that is is same as the X850xtpe, read the reviews their are people getting PE speeds and all came with 16 pipes out of the box . Wow this was long sorry (medicated ) 38
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Owned both ATI and nVidia can't really say there's a lot to choose between them performance wise.
Last 4 cards -
Ti4600
9800SE softmodded to 9800pro
6800GT
7800GS
Only thing I consider better are the nVidia drivers (just my opinion), and they are more frequent with their updates.
Saying that ATI has come a long long way from their way back in the past dismal drivers.
For me now it comes to whats the best for the money I want to spend and will cause the least hassle.
Until I move to the new AMD socket (M2) later this year there was no ponit buying a new SLI mobo and card.
When I do change I will see which SLI video card is the best for the money and get it, be it ATI or nVidia.
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How are you Kev. It's been a long time since I've got time to log on.
Have a quick question. I have a 9800pro and was wondering what difference would I expect if I upgraded to a 7800GS (I have an AGP board). Will it be worth the upgrade?
Cheers
Acetnt
P.S. I have an A8V MB and and Athlon 64 3400+ cpu 939
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I would think that a 9800pro to a 7800GS is a good jump , you should have noticibly better fps , and the ability to use more antialiasing . I *think* this will be the last high end card from nvidia , they said they werent going to produce any 7 series agp and they did lol. If you have an AGP board with a decent cpu , i would grab one because it could possibly be the best your going to get .
38
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Is there some webpage out there that has a progression of the chips along a timeline? So that one can look at it and say "Hrm... an x800 came after a 9800" or "Hrm... the Ge6800 Ultra came after the 6800 but before the 6800GT" or anything like that?
I get confused with all the different names Nvidia and ATI use. I wish they'd just start at 1 and count upwards, instead of adding all these other letters and such.
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Hi Acetnt, yup you'll see a difference.
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Krusty - search around http://www.tomshardware.com -> I think i have seen somethign like that on that site before.
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If you look in their video card roundup charts, the chipsets are usually in order of progression, even if the names of the cards arent always.
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Originally posted by OOZ662
The below computer runs full sliders/full vis range, 512 textures at 30-70 FPS.
Note that it's a regular 6800; the apparently "inferior" one. Running Omega drivers. Also note that AH is more CPU dependant than video card dependant.
I have a AMD 2100 (1.66 gig)
1 meg of ram (400 mhz)
GfX Nvidia 5200
and i get 30 - 70 FPS in AH2 while having the Res. on 1280 x 1024 and 1024 textures w/ hi-res textures all the In-game grafics
levle of detail 75%
Desplayed Objects 100%
Ground detail 100% (or 3k)
only time i have 2 change my levle of detail is when there r 4 or more fires within 3k of me or if there is nothing but trees and im 1-2k above the ground
so i would say any of those vid cards will do u just fine 4 AH2 but myself i would get the highest profroming vid card out of the three Nvidia cards
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Originally posted by 38ruk
I would think that a 9800pro to a 7800GS is a good jump , you should have noticibly better fps , and the ability to use more antialiasing . I *think* this will be the last high end card from nvidia , they said they werent going to produce any 7 series agp and they did lol. If you have an AGP board with a decent cpu , i would grab one because it could possibly be the best your going to get . 38
Yup the 7800GS is likely to be the last AGP card made by nVidia, but who knows.
They said they wouldn't make a 7800 for AGP, but they did.
I think they underestimated the amount of AGP systems still out there, so if the 7800GS sells well you never know, we may see an AGP 7900 sometime.
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Originally posted by Nemeth
I have a AMD 2100 (1.66 gig)
1 meg of ram (400 mhz)
GfX Nvidia 5200
and i get 30 - 70 FPS in AH2 while having the Res. on 1280 x 1024 and 1024 textures w/ hi-res textures all the In-game grafics
levle of detail 75%
Desplayed Objects 100%
Ground detail 100% (or 3k)
only time i have 2 change my levle of detail is when there r 4 or more fires within 3k of me or if there is nothing but trees and im 1-2k above the ground
so i would say any of those vid cards will do u just fine 4 AH2 but myself i would get the highest profroming vid card out of the three Nvidia cards
Go take a flight in the AvA arena and fly low over lenningrad then post your results.
Bronk
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Just tried flying over Leningrad, I'm down to the low 40's!!!!!
Current settings -
1280x1024x32
Ground vis range - max
Detail sliders - All way to left (max)
Texture size - 1024
Displayed objects - 100%
In nVidia profiles
4xAA
Vsynch - on
When does nVidias new 300 pipeline, 50 vertex shaders, 9900000ultra come out lol.
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I run mine in 1024x768. I've been using that desktop resolution for years, its the one I'm most comfortable with. I dont see the point in pushing the card harder (for me) just to cram a few more pixels in. However, I did kinda want to push my new setup a little harder than usual and see how high I could get things, for curiousity sake. In the MA I was running 1024 (high res textures), all the ingame sliders at full, 4xAA and 4xAF (mainly because I could never run AF before, wanted to see if it worked lol) and Vsync on. I'd be in the mid 40s to low 50s sitting on the runway of just about any airfield I tried. By the time I hit 5k I was maxxed out at 85 fps. Furballs I'd be in the mid 60s until I got below 5k, then it would drop into the 40s. Considering how high I was running my settings, I could live with that. Visually it was incredible compared to the old settings I was running.
On the new AvA map, same settings, I was in the single digits sitting on the runway lol. To keep the frame rates livable even in a furball on the deck, I had to drop the ingame sliders to about 75-80%, drop to 512 on the texture size, and turn my AA and AF to application preference. I also had to turn on the optimizations for filtering and mip mapping. With that done, I havent gotten the frame rates below 34 fps on that map. I think my old setup would have just surrendered. :)
System all at stock speeds and timings, no overclocks.
Sempron 64 2800+ @ 1.6 Ghz
Biostar Tforce 6100 motherboard (socket 754)
1GB Corsair PC3200 RAM
Geforce 6800GT 256MB
People on the AMD forums are overclocking this CPU up to 2.4 Ghz on this motherboard. If I chose to do so, I could probably squeeze more out of it, but I'm enjoying CPU temps down in the low 30s lol. Performance is acceptable, why push it? I also noticed my card is running bone stock at 6800 Ultra speeds (and is detected as such by Windows). I could probably push that too, but I'm having some cooling issues already and need to stabilize that. I dont want to ruin a new card for a few extra mhz of speed.
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From speaking to Skuzzy -
No point using AF, game doesn't support it.
1280x1024 is the games sweet spot, it is what it is designed for. Doesn't mean you should or can run at that res and get decent fps.
I will prob go back to 1024x768 just because things look too small at 1280x1024.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Go take a flight in the AvA arena and fly low over lenningrad then post your results.
Bronk
just tell me where 2 DL it and i will, cuz i dont play ma (after converting its $25 a month way 2 much 4 me) and i havnt seen any1 host it in H2H
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http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171177
Link for the map is in this thread.
Bronk