Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rabbidrabbit on February 12, 2006, 02:51:34 PM
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Cheney Accidentally Shoots Fellow Hunter
WASHINGTON - Vice President
Dick Cheney accidentally shot and injured a man during a weekend quail hunting trip in Texas, his spokeswoman said Sunday.
Harry Whittington, 78, was "alert and doing fine" after Cheney sprayed Whittington with shotgun pellets on Saturday at the Armstrong Ranch in south Texas, said property owner Katharine Armstrong.
Armstrong said Cheney turned to shoot a bird and accidentally hit Whittington. She said Whittington was taken to Corpus Christi Memorial Hospital by ambulance.
Cheney's spokeswoman, Lea Anne McBride, said the vice president was with Whittington, a lawyer from Austin, Texas, and his wife at the hospital on Sunday afternoon.
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No doubt. Jon Stewart will be all over this.
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Cheney got the right idea, shoot the lawyers.
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Doh!
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Originally posted by john9001
Cheney got the right idea, shoot the lawyers.
Why the hell couldn't he have taken teddy and hillary hunting??? :furious :t
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why the hell didn't the dumb sob shoot himself?
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I can't think of any Presidents, Vice-Presidents, or even Presidential candidates shooting anyone since Aaron Burr.
Historic moment. :)
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I'm betting Harry is part of the Axis of Evil and Cheney just plugged the old bastard out of instinct.
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didn't know he was in season again...
(http://www.parida.com/img/quaylea.gif)
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Cheney goes hunting
(http://www.cpinternet.com/~tlong1//hunt.gif)
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Dago,
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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good one dago that's funny.
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Caption this:
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/cheney-scooter-hunting.jpg)
Wabbit season...Whittington season...Wabbit season...Whittington season SHOOT!!!
-SLICER
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Well, MP8, could you quote source with the cut and paste. Thanks.
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Funny how no one in the media except a few have bothered to say that Whittington crossed over behind Cheney and came out of the brush behind him and to the side of the hunting group, never saying he was out of position and in the open area where Cheney was supposed to have been shooting. It doesn't mean Cheney isn't at fault, but that Whittington is also at fault. Both of them violated the rules of hunting, not just one. No excuses for either.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Funny how no one in the media except a few have bothered to say that Whittington crossed over behind Cheney and came out of the brush behind him and to the side of the hunting group, never saying he was out of position and in the open area where Cheney was supposed to have been shooting. It doesn't mean Cheney isn't at fault, but that Whittington is also at fault. Both of them violated the rules of hunting, not just one. No excuses for either.
I don't think it's Cheney's fault at all...
what was he suppose to do, take roll before he took his shot?
the lawyer knows he was in the wrong. I am sure he will not make the same mistake twice.
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Originally posted by Eagler
I don't think it's Cheney's fault at all...
what was he suppose to do, take roll before he took his shot?
You have got to be kidding here :), you dont think you need to look before you shoot?
shamus
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Shamus,
Cheney was tracking a quail, left to right. The other guy went out for a bird and was not where he was supposed to be. Its not like shooting targets that stand still. That quail was BOOKIN, heading out & away. Cheney would have been swinging hard to get lined up on it.
When your swinging fast on a quail, pull the trigger and "Then" the orange blob jumps into view, what are you supposed to do? Pellets were probably out the barrel before he saw him.
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it's a good idea to shoot with both eyes open
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You guys are kidding right?
It's the guy who got shot fault?
I hunt pheasant and quail alot, and it is ALWAYS the shooter's responsibility to make sure his field of fire is clear.
The guy went after a down bird, and if Cheney and crew didn't stop and wait for him to retrieve it, then they messed up even worse than not making sure they had a clear field of fire.
Mark me down for NOT going hunting with that group, especially since they try to spin that it was actually the shootee who should share the responsibility for getting shot.
Maybe some folks in here need a refresher on their Hunter's Safety Course certificates.
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I think Harry was wearing jeans or something...and Cheney shot him due to the lack of respect shown for the sport of bird killin. Had Harry been wearing a jacket and tie none of this would have happened.
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Granted they were both wrong.
So don't put all the blame on cheney.
Not that I like the man, but in that situation anyone "could" have had the same thing happen.
BTW storch, swinging left to right that left eye is not going to see the problem till its too late.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Granted they were both wrong.
So don't put all the blame on cheney.
Not that I like the man, but in that situation anyone "could" have had the same thing happen.
BTW storch, swinging left to right that left eye is not going to see the problem till its too late.
try keeping both eyes open and see what it does for your peripheral vision and overall situational awareness. hunting accidents occur every year usually they are caused by carelessness both men were careless apparently but it is always the responsibility of the shooter to make sure the field of fire is clear. mr cheney is clearly at fault.
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I have always had both eye's open when using a shotgun.
Hunted upland game and rabbits for years in large groups, never had anyone come close to shooting a dog or other hunter.
I think it's a real stitch that anyone is defending the shooter here, it must be because of who he is rather than what he did :).
shamus
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Originally posted by Stringer
and it is ALWAYS the shooter's responsibility to make sure his field of fire is clear.....
Maybe some folks in here need a refresher on their Hunter's Safety Course certificates.
I agree with [edit: Stringer] there is no way to spin this it's clearly Cheney's fault...
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Originally posted by Stringer
You guys are kidding right?
It's the guy who got shot fault?
I hunt pheasant and quail alot, and it is ALWAYS the shooter's responsibility to make sure his field of fire is clear.
The guy went after a down bird, and if Cheney and crew didn't stop and wait for him to retrieve it, then they messed up even worse than not making sure they had a clear field of fire.
Mark me down for NOT going hunting with that group, especially since they try to spin that it was actually the shootee who should share the responsibility for getting shot.
Maybe some folks in here need a refresher on their Hunter's Safety Course certificates.
Yep, yep and more yep.
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I should add, that I hope it's the spin guys saying some of this, and that Cheney is probably (hopefully) owning up to his action causing the accident.
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Everyone's forgetting the most important thing here.
Cheney shot a lawyer.
He should be given a medal.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Everyone's forgetting the most important thing here.
Cheney shot a lawyer.
He should be given a medal.
:rofl
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Everyone's forgetting the most important thing here.
Cheney shot a lawyer.
He should be given a medal.
Well, they don't give out medals for injuring others.
If he can't practice law anymore, then sure, give the veep a medal. ;)
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Everyone's forgetting the most important thing here.
Cheney shot a lawyer.
He should be given a medal.
Great point! I knew it even before it made headlines. There was a positive shift in the force.
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sure... chenney will get away with it... If I "accidentaly" shot a lawyer everyone would be all "why were you using buckshot to shoot quail" and like that..
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
sure... chenney will get away with it... If I "accidentaly" shot a lawyer everyone would be all "why were you using buckshot to shoot quail" and like that..
lazs
Tell 'em you thought he was a deer...
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Cheney is clearly at fault, no questions asked.
So what if the other guy was "out of position" with the rest of the hunting group. What if it was some other hunter, not in their group, but hunting in the same area?
There is NO excuse for firing at anything without knowing what is down-range, should the intended target be missed.
Another question I haven't seen answered.... Where is the quail Cheney was shooting at? He fired, did he hit it? Or was he sound shooting in that direction because the other guy was walking over there?
You know what happens to regular people who have these types of "accidents"? They loose their hunting licenses and probably their LTCs. In this case, Cheney won't even get a fine or have to pay for the hospital fees.
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Let me add something to that - Anyone have any information on Iraq or Afganistan involving "friendly fire" incidents? Have there been any acidental shootings where the shooter was court-marshalled? I'd like to know that.
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Midnight,
Your missing the point. He shot a lawyer. It is always justified.
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I'm sitting here amazed at the spin.. some brown shirt republicans are actually trying to off some of the blame onto the guy that caught a face full of buckshot. Eagler, yer really begining to come off as a classic apologist nazi that showed up at a republican clam bake in the wrong halloween costume.
Gun Saftey. The guy that pulls the trigger is 'to blame'. No other, no apportionment, no BS excuses.
Now, for the resta you comedians, to point out the guy with the holes in his face is a lawyer doesn't change who screwed up... Cheney shoulda been using door slugs if the game was lawyers.
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:rofl
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blasting a lawyer is never a screw up. Its Karma.
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Originally posted by Dago
Cheney goes hunting
(http://www.cpinternet.com/~tlong1//hunt.gif)
one of my FAVORITE bloom county strips :aok :aok
though the one where they use "the village voice" as bait is good too ;) :lol
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the quail was at fault...did he get the bird?
...cation this? easy: "pwned"
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The Shooter Is Responsible. Period.
The whole party were a pack of damnfools for even continuing to shoot with a hunter out of position, out of sight and unaccounted for. Period.
On another note...what amazes me is that I expected the anti-gun cult to pick up this torch and run it into the ground. I expected to see an endless litany of poorly thought out, shallow-logic arguements for banning guns entirely. I expected this board to be crawling with similar pap, yet....hmmm?
Must be 'cause he shot a lawyer...who could argue? ;)
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I'd be more concerned if he missed:aok
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Everyone's forgetting the most important thing here.
Cheney shot a lawyer.
He should be given a medal.
It's just too bad that Killshooter wasn't turned on at that ranch. :)
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Actually, Sarah Brady made a comment on it. Something about wondering why Cheney always invited her out hunting...
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Everyone's forgetting the most important thing here.
Cheney shot a lawyer.
He should be given a medal.
DITTO :rofl :rofl
:t CHECKERS .......
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You guys kill me. The guy that was shot , is my wifes boss. Nice guy. And yes he is a lawyer. A very good one and a nice guy.
Haven't seen 1 person here even hint at how he was. Only blame game.
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I saw on the news that he was expected to be released today or tomorrow and that his daughter said he looked like he had a case of the chicken-pox where he caught the .28 gauge pellets.
Of course in the same report, I saw the reporter show pellets from a 12 gauge shell that looked to be 4 or 5 shot and tried to equate that to quail load from a 28 gauge..so who knows, maybe your wife's boss is worse than the report said...
I didn't hint because the news reported it.
So, is he getting out tomorrow or is it worse than reported, because I noticed in your righteous indignation you didn't actually tell us how he was.
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I'm not rightous. Just no one gives 2 craps about the guy that wa shot. Only how to A.) Ride the Cheney bandwagon or B.) ride the Cheney bashing bandwagon.
Harry has some BIRD shot in his eye. May have to be removed. HE also has a pellet in his throat that is close to his vocal cords. From what I have gatherd from what my wife has found out.
I understand he will be released tomorrow.
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A 28 guage at 30 yards? It just stung, he'll be fine. Most women start off in trap shooting at 20 guage and do fine with the recoil.
My question is, When will the 10 guage Over and Unders be coming in as presents from across the nation with "Shoot Him Again," on the plaque?
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You can definitely put me in the "don't care how he's doing" group. Sorry, but I don't know him. Why would I give a ****?
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http://dickcheneyquailhunt.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
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The first thing I thought of, was wow, he got lucky, could have lost an eye, but since his daughter compared it to the chicken-pox, I assumed he was wearing shooting glasses.
Maybe his daughter was mis-quoted or needs to be more accurate when speaking with the press.
If it bothers you that much, start a thread about, as this thread was clearly intended to be about Cheney all along.
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Originally posted by Stringer
The first thing I thought of, was wow, he got lucky, could have lost an eye, but since his daughter compared it to the chicken-pox, I assumed he was wearing shooting glasses.
Maybe his daughter was mis-quoted or needs to be more accurate when speaking with the press.
If it bothers you that much, start a thread about, as this thread was clearly intended to be about Cheney all along.
Nahh...I'll just step out of this one and watch the rocks thrown from over there------------------------------------->
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Originally posted by Stringer
The first thing I thought of, was wow, he got lucky, could have lost an eye,...
Did Cheney's gun have a compass in the stock and a thing that tells time?
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Actually, RedTop, you're quite right. A case of more noise than thought, on my part.
All lawyer jokes aside, I do hope he'll be well.
...and I still don't think it's his fault.
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Im duly impressed. The media is all over this thing a like a squadron of giant green headed flies on a steamy pile of horsecrap. If any of you have ever hunted quail/chucker/pheasant then you know this story is a tragedy barely avoided and an all too common hazard of the hunt.
Folks that make fun of a hunting accident are crappy people at heart imo.
Nothing funny about it.
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the idiots on "inside edition" were cackling like the hens that they are about this story. The VP is a moron and he should step up and say that he's an idiot and apologize to the victim's family that would diffuse the whole situation for him. however it doesn't change the fact that the media is so BS it's sickening. Don Henley called it right in his tune "dirty laundry". not to de rail the thread but a few years ago a woman who owned a small condo in the coconut grove choked herself to death with an automated sliding gate. the job was done by a colleague and competitor. we are one of the oldest and more visible contractors in automated entry systems in this market and we were contacted by the ABC affiliate for a film and comment thing. I declined politely. apparently they could find no one else who would talk to them so the reporter herself (the on air personality) called to pitch me. I said no thanks and hung up. she called back again with a scolding tone. at that point I spoke my mind and all I heard was silence. they ran their stupid story without a single comment from anyone in our industry. I felt very good about our industry that day. I lump the mainstream press with e-coli bacteria and other things that live in the amoeba slime pit.
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thanks hang
appreciate the name calling ya hippie
I guess some of you think if you get hit by a car while jay walking, it is the drivers fault too?
It ain't like they were deer hunting where the target is stationary...
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storch, I almost hate to say it but I dont think Cheney was totally at fault here. ALL parties in the quail hunt need to be absolutely certain that everyone knows where everyone else is at all times. Sounds like the old lawyer dude fell behind and was coming back up to the hunting party in quiet mode. Unfortunately, sounds like a bird was flushed and lead in the direction of the victim. Bad rap for everyone.
Quail hunting is a hell load of fun but can be hazardous to more than just the quail.
Old Dick is lucky but the guy that got hit with the bird shot is hell luckier.
Apparently.......
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Originally posted by Eagler
thanks hang
appreciate the name calling ya hippie
I guess some of you think if you get hit by a car while jay walking, it is the drivers fault too?
It ain't like they were deer hunting where the target is stationary...
Naw if they aint in the crosswalk you can legaly speed up and hit em and if they dont get out of the crosswalk before the light turns green for you, they are fair GAME :rofl , pun intended.
shamus
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Originally posted by Eagler
I don't think it's Cheney's fault at all...
what was he suppose to do, take roll before he took his shot?
the lawyer knows he was in the wrong. I am sure he will not make the same mistake twice.
Did you type this???
I thought I went easy on yah.
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Originally posted by Eagler
thanks hang
appreciate the name calling ya hippie
I guess some of you think if you get hit by a car while jay walking, it is the drivers fault too?
It ain't like they were deer hunting where the target is stationary...
No, some of us know that the guy pulling the trigger is responsible period. Especially in a bird hunt. There is no excuse and no bird is ever worth hitting another hunter, period. Even if accidently.
If Cheney and company aren't good enough to figure that out, then they shouldn't hunt or only hunt alone.
If you're not up to quail hunting, then don't go with other people. Simple.
Last year, I took my 11 year old son pheasant hunting for the first time. Towards the end of the field, as we were closing on the blockers and each other (the field ended in a sort of semi-circle by a creek bottom) a covy of quail got up.
Now, we're there for pheasant which usually jump mostly straight up and get up in the air some whereas quail get up only as high as they need to, and start scootin'.
I told my son to take a knee, as did I, and I didn't pull on a single quail. There was no good field of fire and a quail isn't worth the risk.
If that bird flew around and behind Cheney, then he needs to make sure of his field of fire, period end of story, before pulling the trigger. I don't care if Helen Keller was out there with him...it's the hunter who is pulling the trigger responisiblity.
I think if Cheney had carnal knowledge of a sheep some of you would say it's OK, because the sheep never said "no".
The only question I have is if that was a guided hunt, where the hell were the guides to keep the hunt safe and organized?
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I don't think that most of us here are trying to say that Cheney did nothing wrong.
I think we are trying to prevent a kneejerk reaction to the thought that cheney is evil.
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It's usually best, if you don't want to look kneejerkish yourself, to let that reaction happen first, especially since not one evil reference has been made...until your post :)
Are the Cheney supporters that insecure?
Plus what's so bad about that. He might very well be evil, but he's our evil guy :t
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No stringer you are trying to beat up on the guy. You say
"If Cheney and company aren't good enough to figure that out, then they shouldn't hunt or only hunt alone. If you're not up to quail hunting, then don't go with other people."
Yet the guy has been an avid hunter for many decades, and by accounts of at least one senator hunting buddy is a crack shot, and usually the most sucessful hunter in a party. Id venture to guess he would have more experience as a hunter than 99% of anyone who would frequent this board. Which I thought Id mention since incompentance and blame seems to be the direction of the thread.
The situation as I understand it leads me to agree with ghost that anyone could have made the mistake in that circumstance.
Simplely playing the legal blame game loses all perspective. I juxtapose that situation with a friend of mine who was shot in the back of the head while calling turkey by some idiot on the move who doesnt know the difference between a hen call and a gobbler, and just shot at the call. And I see a very large difference between the two.
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You're right. I am beating up on him. I know it's an accident...it's not like Cheney went out there to shoot the guy. I bet Cheney feels horrible about it, plus more than just a little embarrassed.
There's been more times than I can remember when I didn't take the shot because I'm not exactly sure where the blockers were, when, as we get closer, I see I would have had a clear shot. But at the time, I wasn't sure.
To me, it isn't about some legal blame game. I don't care about that crap at all.
The direction of the thread started out as it was the guy that got shot fault, and that is BS.
Anyone could have made that mistake, I guess. I know we've uninvited hunters for less than that. I haven't hunted with anyone that's put someone else in the hospital, have you? And if so, do you still?
That is an idiotic move with the Turkey deal. In each case though, the shooter did not clear his field of fire. The turkey is worse only because that idiot didn't even bother to visually identify what he was shooting at.
It seems this group, whether individually good hunters or not, just didn't work well together on that day.
And I'd probably have less of an intense reaction (my thoughts would be the same) if some of the early spin, didn't come out to say the shootee didn't follow protocal, etc.
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Just outta curiousity....
How do real-life actual hunters here feel about Cheney's hunting sojourns?
I've never hunted, but would if the opportunity presented itself (as long as it ain't gofers - that just struck me as too goofy). I'm an avid angler, and it's through my involvement in that leads me to ponder something about this quail shoot.
Short background: I'm a fly fisherman. It's different than dropping an army of down riggers and dragging them along with a boat. It's different than spin casting some fancy new spoon. We hunt fish. We turn over rocks to look for what the fish might be eating. We spend large amounts of time on the banks just watching the water, watching the movement of the fish. We look at the bug hatches for clues as to what the fish might be feeding on. We have fly-tying vices, hackle, thread, and hooks to be able to sit down and actually create the things that the fish are eating. When we throw our line into the water, we do it in ways that mimic the behavior of whatever it is we have tied to the line.
To me? That's hunting.
And when we do it? There are ethical guidelines that serious fishers know. Like code. We scoff at spin casters. We're disgusted by those fishers that bang any dang fish they catch over the head with a club. We're embarrassed by the guys who hang fish on a scale causing them even more trauma; harming the viability and productivity of our rivers. Guys that don't clamp down their barbs are idiots. Etc.
Now, I'm not really sure what's involved in hunting with guns, but I'm pretty dang sure the same kind of things go into it. Like knowing how to track. Knowing where to look. Knowing how your prey behaves. And on and on (...about things and terminology I have no clue of. :) )
But I'm curious.
For all you seasoned hunters, how does it strike you that the hunts that Cheney goes on amount to nothing more than birds raised in captivity on private land, are under nets, and when he shows up they release them and BOOM! He kills, like 70 of them? A couple years ago his group killed something like 470 birds in one of these "hunting" trips.
This last trip was the same thing. Birds raised in boxes, released when the so-called hunters show up.
Like I said, I don't know much about hunting.... but this strikes me more like shooting than hunting.
How do actual hunters feel about this practice?
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Just because the lands are private, does not mean the birds are raised that way. Quayle hunting and Pheasent hunting are still some of the most respectable types of hunting in this world.
I have no respect for the dude who bags a deer from 400 yards with a high power rifle. Nor any respect for the guy who sits in a tree stand 10 yards higher then a deer would ever think to look.
However, pheasent or quale hunting is very difficult and involves much effort to actually go out and get the bird. You could have a 3,000 dollar shotgun, but if you are not half decent you will still miss. I believe the same is not true for deer hunting.
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I appreciate that laser, but this wasn't like some wild quale hunt.
Fact is, they grew the birds in boxes, and then let 'em go to shoot 'em.
I had never heard of that until this.
So I'm wondering how actual hunters feel about this kinda thing.
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Originally posted by Nash
Just outta curiousity....
How do real-life actual hunters here feel about Chaney's hunting sojourns?
it's been a few years since I've had the time/opportunity to go hunting. but when I was hunting regularly it was considered 'bad form' to shoot your hunting companions.
that aside. just because he's hunting on private land doesn't mean it's a 'canned hunt'.
there are many private hunting ranches where they cultivate and maintain habitat for game and support it by charging people to hunt. a very good option for people who don't own their own hunting land or have a lot of time to spend getting to know a particular area. I got the impression that this is the type of hunt Cheney did.
canned hunts on the other hand suck. little difference from paying a farmer to go 'hunt' one of his cows.
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I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing this information anywhere.
Most private lands do nothing of the sort. I believe he was hunting on a friend's ranch, not a specified game land.
Some (key word) game lands do box breed birds, but most of the behavior of the birds is instinctual and is made sure to not be bred out. I.E. Comparing wild turkeys to Thanksgiving Turkeys.
Though I have heard that as Pheasants grow older, they actually become smarter. So wild pheasants are a bunch more difficult to hunt then any young pheasant would be.
Lastly, what the hell are we doing up so late?
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Search google for "cheney canned hunt" (thanks capt. apathy for the terminology). I just looked it up and, well... there it is.
I'm pretty sure that this "peppered" guy's farm was the same thing. It's what made me ask the question in the first place.
So.... is Cheney a hunter or a shooter?
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So what season is it really ???
Could it be
(http://www.stomptokyo.com/extras/chuckjones/img/dirty-skunk-season.jpg)
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I did some construction work at a pheasentry several years ago. They werent raised in boxes. Mabey you read they were raised in pens which could also be misleading if you dont envision a pen as a small building with a wire and netting yard 2 or 3 times the size of the building.
Many private clubs stock their land going into hunting season. I dont know an exact timeline for it, but stocked pheasents do revert to wild behavior. I know this because I used to hunt farms adjacent to hunting clubs because that was a good place to kick up pheasents :)
Yea, Cheney has went to a private club here in PA a couple times and killed alot of birds that were just released that morning. I cant see that being all that fun or sporting, but I guess if you have the money to pay someone to guarantee you will find and kill something, what do I care?
There are varying degrees though. There is stocking to make sure there are 'wild' game to hunt, and then there's dumping a bunch of confused animals out in the field for the days customers.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I have no respect for the dude who bags a deer from 400 yards with a high power rifle.
What about a deer at a dead sprint from 100 yards from a freestanding position with open sights? Or taking 1/2 hour or more to quietly move 100 feet to top a ridge line to get a line of sight on deer that may, or may not be on the other side :) I always enjoyed deer much more than small game.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I don't think that most of us here are trying to say that Cheney did nothing wrong.
I think we are trying to prevent a kneejerk reaction to the thought that cheney is evil.
Guess you dont remember Cheney attacking kerry for his hunting escapade? Memories are short.. And he is evil......
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Originally posted by Murdr
I did some construction work at a pheasentry several years ago. They werent raised in boxes. Mabey you read they were raised in pens which could also be misleading if you dont envision a pen as a small building with a wire and netting yard 2 or 3 times the size of the building.
Many private clubs stock their land going into hunting season. I dont know an exact timeline for it, but stocked pheasents do revert to wild behavior. I know this because I used to hunt farms adjacent to hunting clubs because that was a good place to kick up pheasents :)
Yea, Cheney has went to a private club here in PA a couple times and killed alot of birds that were just released that morning. I cant see that being all that fun or sporting, but I guess if you have the money to pay someone to guarantee you will find and kill something, what do I care?
There are varying degrees though. There is stocking to make sure there are 'wild' game to hunt, and then there's dumping a bunch of confused animals out in the field for the days customers.
What Murdr said.
I've always been lucky in that I have access to lots of farmland and land where the ranchers will leave portions of milo fields uncut, things like that, so I've never had the want or need to go to a guided hunt.
From some people I've talked with, the guided hunts were not that good. It was how Murdr described some of them. They just dumped birds out there the day of the hunt. You almost had to kick them up, they said.
I guess it's all related to the quality of the hunt reserve, much like any other business.
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I think the reason for this is clear...if the economy was better off, it wouldnt be forcing lawyers to hunt for food.
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Originally posted by Shamus
Naw if they aint in the crosswalk you can legaly speed up and hit em and if they dont get out of the crosswalk before the light turns green for you, they are fair GAME :rofl , pun intended.
shamus
Yeah I wouldn't really follow that advise. Anyone who has hunted knows YOU DO NOT SHOOT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHERE THE SHOT IS GOING!!!
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The REAL deal:
If I shot somebody 'by accident' while hunting without a game stamp I'd be jailed, charged and an appearance docket issued.
There would be no 'extenuating circumstances', no excuses, no ignorance of needing that stamp accepted by juge or jury.
If that was Al Gore that shot somebody while hunting illegaly while Klinton was in office; the same Brown Shirt Republicans that are giving Cheney a 'pass' upthread would be frothing at the mouth for Gores scalp.
When are the dum partisan turdbags on both sides gonna smarten up and force ALL public servants to play by the same rules we gotta play by? When the hell did accountability require a political party screen first?
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I don't care about what party someone is from. If they are honest and genuine then they get my vote. I have not been voting for many at all over the years.
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ROFL. It's a wonder Cheney didn't have another heart attack.
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/graphics/2006/02/14/ixd14big.jpg)
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It was chenny's fault.
I would love all politicians to play by the same rules the rest of us have to.
I live in an area surrounded by fields. I have to damn near kick pheasant to get em out of the way they are so fat. Shooting them here would be less challenge than on a private hunting ranch.
lazs
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Murdr, I do respect people who stalk deer. That's a very difficult thing to do.
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God most of the media types act like this type of thing has never happened before, this type if incident happens every year, across the nation, as long as the human factor remains accidents will happen. when I was 16 I was on my annual jack rabbit safari in eastern oregon, I accidently found myself down range of some of my party members, we were shielded by a low ridge line, I still remember the whine of the 22 rounds over my head. I bore them no ill will we are still life long friends. bad things happen to good people no one is immune,
not even famous folks. Iam sure Dick feels horrible for hurting a good friend, but
to suggest something under handed is just media crap! I see split second actions affect folks for a lifetime, this is nothing new.:o
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Originally posted by beet1e
ROFL. It's a wonder Cheney didn't have another heart attack.
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/graphics/2006/02/14/ixd14big.jpg)
Well, apparently the guy he shot did:
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/bush_administration
Question to all the Cheney supporters:
What if the guy he shot dies? I think it would be called manslaughter.
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No, it wouldn't. It was an accident on everyone's part, not just his, not just the lawyer's. It would be very unfortunate if it did happen.
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Negligent homicide then?
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No. I know us repeating something 40 times is hard for you to understand, I'll try once more.
It was through no one's particular fault that the accident happened. For it to be negligient homicide or manslaughter, the other guy would have had to be where he should have been while hunting.
But he wasn't. He was way out of place and didn't tell anyone. Very unfortunate that it happened, it was just a pure accident.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
The REAL deal:
If I shot somebody 'by accident' while hunting without a game stamp I'd be jailed, charged and an appearance docket issued.
Dont think so. The Upland Game Bird Stamp in Texas is new. Because it is a new stamp, Texas provided a year of warning citations to anyone violating the new requirement to allow hunters time to be informed of it.
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Cool. Should I happen to kill someone with my car (by accident of course), I'll use that excuse. Thanks.:aok
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Originally posted by Murdr
Dont think so. The Upland Game Bird Stamp in Texas is new. Because it is a new stamp, Texas provided a year of warning citations to anyone violating the new requirement to allow hunters time to be informed of it.
We were told that this only applied to hunters renewing their permits back in August. We had to inform those hunters of the new stamps and regulations. We didn't extend that luxury to hunters or fishermen buying new permits. Perhaps my superiors screwed the pooch when telling us what we could and could not say regarding the permits.
Hmm...:confused:
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
the other guy would have had to be where he should have been while hunting.
By that the Cheney apologist means outside of the range of Dick's 360 degree swing arc.
Even my 11 year old knows that you don't do that. Of course he just successfully completed his Hunters Safety course a few months ago, so the lessons of responsibility are still fresh in his mind.
Quote (from the Wichita Eagle)
Kansas hunters criticize CheneySafety experts say the vice president broke the rules when he swung around to shoot at quail and instead shot his hunting partner.BY MICHAEL PEARCEThe Wichita Eagle
Kansas hunter education instructors say Vice President Dick Cheney broke safe hunting rules when he shot another hunter Saturday in Texas. "Ultimately, the trigger-puller is always at fault," said Wayne Doyle, Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks hunter education coordinator. Cheney was quail hunting when his hunting partner, Harry Whittington, walked behind the hunting party to retrieve a shot bird.
Doyle said Cheney should have stopped when Whittington went to retrieve his bird. "Hunters always stop and wait if someone gets out of line," Doyle said. "The hunt should not resume until everyone's back in line."
Ray Fischer, an instructor from Claflin, said Cheney also broke one of the 10 rules of safe gun handling --"Be sure of your target and beyond" -- listed in the Kansas hunter education book. "He was sure of his target, but he obviously wasn't sure of what was behind it," Fischer said.
Doyle said those are among the primary lessons more than 400,000 students have learned in Kansas hunter education classes. Since Kansas has a rich tradition in quail and pheasant hunting, students learn the safety challenges encountered as birds often fly low and in many directions.
He estimated that Kansas hunters spent the equivalent of 1.5 million days small-game hunting in 2005, with 20 accidents. "That's an almost insignificant number," he said. "But I guess it's not insignificant if you're the victim or the shooter."
But it is still a pure accident, on that I agree. Avoidable by Cheney, yes, but accidental nonetheless.
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Not quite curval. If you are speeding and lose control of your car, you are responsible if you hit someone that wasn't doing anything of the sort. This would be an example of negligent homicide or manslaughter should someone die.
However, should you both lose control of your car and hit eachother, it's a pure accident and no one is at fault.
Should someone die from this, it's very unfortunate, but there would be no one person to blame.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Not quite curval. If you are speeding and lose control of your car, you are responsible if you hit someone that wasn't doing anything of the sort. This would be an example of negligent homicide or manslaughter should someone die.
However, should you both lose control of your car and hit eachother, it's a pure accident and no one is at fault.
Should someone die from this, it's very unfortunate, but there would be no one person to blame.
I think you need to go back to law school.
This would be a slam dunk negligent homicide, manslaughter I doubt.
shamus
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No charges filed = accident. Doesn't it?
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hangtime, you ok?
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Originally posted by lazs2
I have to damn near kick pheasant to get em out of the way they are so fat.
what an image! :lol
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Originally posted by Shamus
I think you need to go back to law school.
This would be a slam dunk negligent homicide, manslaughter I doubt.
shamus
A 17 year old Laura Bush ran a stop sign, t-boned a car that had no stop at that intersection, killing the driver who was her classmate. No charges filed.
A school friends dad was driving on a local snowy street. He was possibly going to fast for conditions, but not speeding. A kid came sleding off a side street, he could not avoid him, and the kid was killed.
Thank goodness we generally get to elect the procecuters who are given the discression and athority to weigh the amount of negligence of the person involved, and decide whether it is just to bring criminal prosecution. This would be a poor place to live if procecuters filed charges at the drop of a hat just because they could, and we had didnt have the power of the poll to keep them resonable.
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Originally posted by Murdr
A 17 year old Laura Bush ran a stop sign, t-boned a car that had no stop at that intersection, killing the driver who was her classmate. No charges filed.
A school friends dad was driving on a local snowy street. He was possibly going to fast for conditions, but not speeding. A kid came sleding off a side street, he could not avoid him, and the kid was killed.
Thank goodness we generally get to elect the procecuters who are given the discression and athority to weigh the amount of negligence of the person involved, and decide whether it is just to bring criminal prosecution. This would be a poor place to live if procecuters filed charges at the drop of a hat just because they could, and we had didnt have the power of the poll to keep them resonable.
If you are talking about the first lady, she is about my age and I remeber many cases back in the 60-70's where deaths occured thru DUI's, a car wreck caused by road rage or a bar fight where intent was taken in consideration and draconian charges were not filed.
We have become a harsh, somebody has to pay at all costs society.
Leave you dog in a hot car-felony, smack your kid-felony.
I suspect that if I shot someone under the same curcumstances and he died, I would be charged with a crime, what do you think?
shamus
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What amazes me is how terms have changed. Manslaughter originally indicated an accidental unintended killing. Now its just a means for plea bargaining for murderers.
If the Lawyer died Cheney would be guilty of taking a human life, Manslaughter.
It was truely accidental.
IMO if someone is robbing the Quickie Mart and his gun accidently goes off, that is murder.
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Originally posted by Yeager
hangtime, you ok?
Yah. Got a hangnail tho. Plauges the hell outta me at times.
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Originally posted by Ping
What amazes me is how terms have changed. Manslaughter originally indicated an accidental unintended killing. Now its just a means for plea bargaining for murderers.
If the Lawyer died Cheney would be guilty of taking a human life, Manslaughter.
It was truely accidental.
IMO if someone is robbing the Quickie Mart and his gun accidently goes off, that is murder.
Ping, The Quick Market situation you are referring to is called felony murder. ANY death that is the result of intended or unintended action during the commission of a felony. In other words if someone in the store has a heart attack and dies during the robbery the robber will be accountable for the death as felony murder.
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Originally posted by Shamus
I suspect that if I shot someone under the same curcumstances and he died, I would be charged with a crime, what do you think?
shamus
I would suspect not, but it depends on the DA. The reason I would suspect not is because 'under the same curcumstances' you would have shot a friend, and naturally be very distrought about it. Common sense would say that as long as you were not grossly (meaning in an outragious fashion) neglegent, that a jury would likely have sypathy for your situation.
There was an incident here where a deer hunters' bullet struck a car, and the thigh of the pregnate driver inside. He did get charged, and pelad guilty, but I dont recall the charge, may have been a lessor degree of endangerment. Where would jury sypathy fall in that case? I think the answer is pretty clear.
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I said I would get charged, maybee not convicted but who knows, you can never tell what a jury will do.
shamus
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Originally posted by Murdr
Yet the guy has been an avid hunter for many decades, and by accounts of at least one senator hunting buddy is a crack shot, and usually the most sucessful hunter in a party. Id venture to guess he would have more experience as a hunter than 99% of anyone who would frequent this board.
Well according to Cheney himself he has only been hunting for about 12 to 15 years....that's not many decades, it's not even 2 full decades, in fact barely over 1 decade. He certainly doesn't have more hunting experience than myself or the group that I hunt with.
And the accounts of the one senator hunting buddy was from Alan Simpson who called him a master hunter when
during the 2004 election campaign, Cheney and others in a party of 10 killed 417 of the 500 birds let loose from nets in a single outing at a Pennsylvania game farm. The master hunter, as former Sen. Alan Simpson calls Cheney, killed 70 of the 417. And he didn’t even get his hands bloody. The birds were cleaned and packed in plastic bags in time for his trip home on Air Force Two.
I hope he could hit 70 birds out of 417 kicked up in front of him.
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Saw that, noted it. I was under the impression he had been doing it most of his life out west, or had that aspect confused with someone else. I should have double checked on that before.