Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: RTR on February 13, 2006, 09:58:14 AM
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Logged last night a little frustrated. 74 allied vs 22 axis.
I admit, I didn't stick around to see if it got any better, an hour was sufficient for me to watch allied #'s rising.
Did it get any better?
RTR
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yep..think it went to 84 vs 34...
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I think that was due to a special Allied mission which had been in the works for at least a week, with a posting in this forum to get as many people, allied and axis involved as possible.
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You should have upped as Luftwaffe. That was a night to remember for quite some time.
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Problem is that most of the axis dont want to spend all night climbing just to get killed on the first pass or jumped before they even get there. So they either dont check in at all, or take one look at the numbers and leave.
I know its historical, Im not complaining about that. But it makes for an extremely frustrating (and non-enjoyable) evening of gameplay.
If this is what ToD is going to be like for LW fliers, get ready for an astounding lack of opposition.
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Not complaining but was way lopsided all weekend. Mostly weekend warriors I’m guessing, my k/d was better than usual, probably due to more targets with less experience. Was disappointing to see some AvA regulars not switching.
Seems that a ratio of 3:1 will actually bring the acklies across the channel but at 2:1 one has to fly over England and under their planes to get them to engage…Hey, what ever it takes (shrugs )
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I flew axis for over an hour last night. Logged when it got to the point of being rediculous.
Allied mission or not. 74 vs 22 is overkill.
what happened to switching sides to even it up a bit? I don't mind being out numbered, but that was way over the top.
just my $.02 worth.
cheers,
RTR
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While I wasn't able to make it as I worked, I would suggest that Fencer's "Fair Warning" post might have been reason for the LW guys to try and track down some buddies for the fun.
Clearly the Allied guys were working to get a lot of people to fly. I know I sure wanted to be in one of those 38s.
Now folks are mad that they got organized and ran a mission and the numbers got off balance.
Imagine if the same effort had been made by the LW types to get their buds to come fly. 150 plus in A v A? When's the last time that happened if ever?
Instead of WOW! it's WAH! AH never fails in that regard :)
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Guppy u misread my intention.
what normally happens in the AVA when the #'s become widely imbalanced is people switch to even it up a bit.
This clearly didn't happen last night. I welcome larger numbers and missions of any sort being organized in the AvA.
What i don't welcome is the standard MA mentality. It ain't the MA.
If this is what you want then stay in the MA. Everything you need is right there.
RTR
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As I said Dan, the complaints arent (IMO) so much that the Allies got themselves organized (its about bloody time!) just that sometimes the historical aspect can overpower the fun aspect.
When you take a look at the numbers and want to leave without even getting up and giving it a try, then the fun has been sucked right out of it.
With me it's not so much proportions as numbers- theres a big difference between being down 15-5 and being down 60-20 or 75-25. Proportion is still 3:1, but the numbers you're up against are rediculous.
btw, if you are looking for a few good P-38 vs 109 fights, let me know when you will be on- I'm dying to fight anything thats name doesnt include the letters "Mk" at this point. :mad:
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RTR, I understand your concern and have no problem with folks switching sides for balance. When I fly the MA I generally always move to where the numbers are lowest. As a well proven target for other AH pilots I always feel most at home under the guns of the masses :)
I know that the guys who organized the Allied mission are history junkies like myself and the chance to load up in my 38 and escort the buffs deep against the LW is what appeals to my history fanatic side.
In A v A you have two sides, a historical map and the planes to make that happen. The guys set it up and sent out 'fair warning' to the LW far in advance. It's too bad the LW junkies didn't come out of the woodwork to fly it too is all.
It sounds like Allied guys who got shot down, switched sides to take a shot at the buffs too.
In the end it was an opportunity missed when it could really have been something had more LW drivers been involved.
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Originally posted by Treize69
Problem is that most of the axis dont want to spend all night climbing just to get killed on the first pass or jumped before they even get there. So they either dont check in at all, or take one look at the numbers and leave.
People who did so made a mistake.
I flew Axis last night, logging on around 9:35 p.m. Eastern time. At that point the raid was probably just crossing the English coast. There were 105 players on, something like 80 v. 25. I think I've only seen numbers above 100 in the CT twice before, and both times were before AH2.
Fencer had advertised this mission for a long time on these boards. One only had to read his "Fair Warning" thread to know that it was a big B-17 escort raid (Mission 250 was the March 6, 1944 raid on Berlin). That meant that many of the Allied players would be driving bombers, so the raw numbers really didn't tell the story.
A B-17 escort mission means that the bombers are going to be flying above 20k - that's plain history. So there wasn't much excuse for getting surprised by high-flying escorts. The solution was to take off from a rear base. Because Fencer had told us what the target would be, it was easy to pick a base along the way.
I managed two interceptions. Both times I started higher than the local escort. Both times the escort was scattered around the formation enough that I was able to find an opening and make a couple of passes on the bombers (not that it made much of a difference!). Again, the raw numbers weren't telling an accurate story.
Had the raw numbers been even, I doubt that the bomber formation would have made it close to the target. As it was, the mission was a real history lesson, for both sides. Next time you see an imbalance in numbers, stick with it enough to see how it plays out. If you don't want to spend the time climbing to intercept, that's fine, pick off some of the escorts who had to drop their tanks and are on the way home. But this was one of the most un-MA-like evenings we've had in a long while.
- oldman
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
I managed two interceptions.
Actually, it was three. I repressed one.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
People who did so made a mistake.
I flew Axis last night, logging on around 9:35 p.m. Eastern time. At that point the raid was probably just crossing the English coast. There were 105 players on, something like 80 v. 25. I think I've only seen numbers above 100 in the CT twice before, and both times were before AH2.
Fencer had advertised this mission for a long time on these boards. One only had to read his "Fair Warning" thread to know that it was a big B-17 escort raid (Mission 250 was the March 6, 1944 raid on Berlin). That meant that many of the Allied players would be driving bombers, so the raw numbers really didn't tell the story.
A B-17 escort mission means that the bombers are going to be flying above 20k - that's plain history. So there wasn't much excuse for getting surprised by high-flying escorts. The solution was to take off from a rear base. Because Fencer had told us what the target would be, it was easy to pick a base along the way.
I managed two interceptions. Both times I started higher than the local escort. Both times the escort was scattered around the formation enough that I was able to find an opening and make a couple of passes on the bombers (not that it made much of a difference!). Again, the raw numbers weren't telling an accurate story.
Had the raw numbers been even, I doubt that the bomber formation would have made it close to the target. As it was, the mission was a real history lesson, for both sides. Next time you see an imbalance in numbers, stick with it enough to see how it plays out. If you don't want to spend the time climbing to intercept, that's fine, pick off some of the escorts who had to drop their tanks and are on the way home. But this was one of the most un-MA-like evenings we've had in a long while.
- oldman
- oldman
Well Said OM
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Yes it was announced with plenty of time to have axis guys get together and plan an intercept. 20 of us allied were bombers. Probably another 20 were dogfighting in the channel on the deck in the 15.46 area.
What we need is for the axis players to be willing to plan interception, and play like its their lives on the line. Coming in on the 6 and sitting there is a sure way to get killed, especially if the attacks come in by 1s and 2s.
I found it odd, with such an attractive target, that so few LW attacked us.Usually its hard to find the bomber guys to fill the ranks, followed by escort types. The intercept types are usually the easiest ranks to fill.
Headon attacks with 10 LWs attacking, and repositioning for follow up attacks, or simply firing everything you can on that one pass and buggin out to safety would be highly effective.
The thing is as far as the numbers go, most of the guys in the mission were invited to join in and planned on being in a certain unit. Speaking for myself, I wouldnt have wanted to go axis just because the numbers were off, after looking forward to bombing all week. Im sure others felt the same way.
Perhaps the next time we do this, some players who have active squad members could be in on the planning, to assure a battle with enough players on each side. However, it just as easily could have gone the other way lastnight, with the axis being overmanned.
I think most of all, players have to think that the object isnt to kill every last bomber you see (although Im sure it would be preferred), the object should be a successful intercept, and escaping the escort to reup and follow up the attack after you have survived the initial contact.
Every hit that is put on a bomber, a lost engine for example...as in history, dooms that bomber. Hit and run. Nobody in a mission is going to badmouth that type of play.
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A couple of points--
As for my regular AvA routine, I pop in, look at numbers and go to the side with the lowest. Lately, with the popular allied rides coming in the RPS, that usually means LW. But I am having alot of fun flying LW.
Plus, even though he reeks of Eldeberry, Storch is an awesome wing. I just play the usual role of bait (easy for me) and he cleans 'em up.
As evidenced in some of the posts, it didn't take all night long to climb to the bombers...heck some guys made 3 or 4 sorties. The math isn't that hard...2-3k climb per minute means 10 minutes to alt. That's not all night.
Finally, I think such great imbalances as last night are not going to be commonplace because the mission itself won't be commonplace as it takes alot to organize and plan. I do hope that we still have these happen on a semi-regular basis. I say this because the setup is great for it.
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The last time I remember numbers over a hundred were when I ran the "Second Wind" setup with Japanese jets as a fictional setup with Okinawa being a little later and a whole bunch of 'what if' things happening to get to that point.
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Coulda swore the LW guys bragged about their organizational skills a week or two ago and pretty much said if the allies did the same then they wouldn't get whipped so badly. What's all this LW whining about now? Y'all had the time to "organize" a defensive!
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Originally posted by Stringer
The math isn't that hard...2-3k climb per minute means 10 minutes to alt. That's not all night.
Not trying to argue or sound whiney stringer (even though I'm sure it will come across that way) if you climb out at a 3K climb and try to get to 30,000 feet with a droptank and pair of gondolas, it will tak a lot longer that 10 minutes, as you will run out of speed about every 8,000 feet, have to level off to build speed back up (which takes a while with all that crap hanging off your plane), and then climb all-out for another 8K or so and start the process all over again.
Instead you find yourself climbing out at about 1.5K a minute, max. Which takes twice as long, say 20 to 25 minutes. And you can't do that straight into the bomber stream, as you will be far too slow to maneuver at that altitude and a sitting duck for even a complete newb running a Pony, Jug, or Lightning on escort.
So you have to either climb out in front of the stream and hope that you line yourself up correctly, which is a lot harder than it sounds, or you shadow the formation and setup your attack, which leaves you, again, at the mercy of the faster escort fighters.
So you climb as high as you can get- to date I have yet to get a 109G6 higher than 32K, where it was flying with the nose on an almost 30 degree up angle- and you come swooping in, dropping your by now 1/4 to 1/2 full tank (and you are about a half hour, maybe 40 minutes into the flight) to get as much speed and maneuverability as you can manage. But at that alt, as the P-38 drivers will tell you, its very easy to compress. So after you make that slash, by the time you pull back up and climb back up to your starting altitude, you are so far behind the bombers that you have the choice of either bugging out and going home for a new plane, or engaging in a long tail chase and putting yourself, once again, at the escort pilots mercy.
So you have just spent a grand total of about 45 to 50 minutes to take one attack run, probably being badly hit by the buff guns or being chased off by the escorts. Then you either land or die, and do it again on their outward leg.
Last Tuesday(?), the night of the B-17 attack on the oil refinery, I spent nearly 45 minutes in flight before I ever saw an Allied plane, and another 20 after that before I engaged the bomber stream. Then on the second attempt I through half my gas without ever catching sight of the bomber stream before I just called it a night and turned for home.
Now, don't get me wrong- having said all that, my favorite part of being a 109 flier is buff-interception missions. I was at work, or I'm sure I would have been up there dieing repeatedly alongside my fellow Looftwaffles. I've been looking forward to the 8th finally getting into the fight the whole setup, and I'm glad to see the kind of numbers you guys managed to get. I just wish that there were more who enjoyed the challenge of "making love to a flaming porcupine" as much as I do. I could fight buff formations all day. I'm not a furballer in the least bit.
Wow, I never meant for that post to get that long. I can ramble on, can't I?
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Originally posted by Alky
Coulda swore the LW guys bragged about their organizational skills a week or two ago and pretty much said if the allies did the same then they wouldn't get whipped so badly. What's all this LW whining about now? Y'all had the time to "organize" a defensive!
I think the keyword here is "time difference". You give a fair warning saying you will be flying on sunday evening (assuming about 2100-2300 hours) and there is about 7-10 hour difference to europe and to Finland where the last LW "horde", which you are referring to, came from. So it was about 0400-0600 time here on sunday-monday night and you are wondering why there weren't enough LW players? I am assume that many european players are dedicated LW drivers.
If you can organise this kind of an event again, please try to do so for example on sunday afternoon like the special events usually. I can guarantee you that at least the finnish lentolaivue 32/34 squads will be there to fly against you. The AARs and pictures look great, i would have been thrilled to see so many bombers in action :aok
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White,
I will bow to your stats. I forgot about the gondolas and dt's. I see what you're saying.
Conversely, for the Bomber guys we spend a ton of time doing the same, climbing to alt, etc. without contact. That oil refinery raid, I think the mission lasted a couple of hours.
In last nights raid, I couldn't keep up with the bomber stream, so I went to the deck and flew south and west to avoid the bombers flight path. I think I landed 30 to 45 minutes after most had landed and logged.
Mostly boring and fun at the same time if that makes any sense?
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fencer and company put on a spectacular event. the odds were stacked in their favor so I was pretty sure they'd leave the ack. they did, they died. it was fun.
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The couple times I checked it was 63-34 or there abouts.
Not doubting it was more at one point but those kinds of odds are about right for missions where a 1/3 of the players are in buffs. A FW can do a lot even with the those odds.
It's not like this happens every week or night.....oooo one night was lopsided.... which I disagree. Gimme 20 FWs.
Near as I can tell 1/2 the buffs died with many more fighters. Seems about right to me. So the complaint is?
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AvA is like a bigger version of H2H.Most of them don't know how too fly LW so they stick with the easy stuff.I personally like those oddz,(more targets to shoot at).
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Originally posted by Treize69
Problem is that most of the axis dont want to spend all night climbing just to get killed on the first pass or jumped before they even get there. So they either dont check in at all, or take one look at the numbers and leave.
I know its historical, Im not complaining about that. But it makes for an extremely frustrating (and non-enjoyable) evening of gameplay.
If this is what ToD is going to be like for LW fliers, get ready for an astounding lack of opposition.
Well seems on regular nights the LW is over 20k anyway...so what's the difference here? So it really has nothing to do with historical or not does it.
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The only time LW is ever over 20k is when there are B17s at no less than 27k trying to bomb over and over with impunity. We waste all our freaking time getting up to them, the RAF fighters all climb up looking for us, we give up or follow the bombers in their 400-mph dive from 27k to run as fast as possible, and then the RAF all have the sub-orbital alt advantage. Rinse. Repeat. Log off in frustration.
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I logged into the arena when it was about 80/20. I was so suprised at the numbers I thought it was some special event. I logged in on the allies side and asked them if it was a squad night or something, or could I join in. Several replied that it was open to all, but that I should consider logging in as axis to help balance things out a bit. I did.
I grabbed a 109 and started climbing. There were conflicting reports as to where the bombers were but after awhile we were told to meet at a specific spot to make an organized hit on the bombers. Just as I approached that spot several P51s shot by me slightly lower and began to reverse. I knew it was a race so I dropped by tank and made right for the location where the bombers were reported. Within a few minutes (and the P51s gaining), I spotted the bomber group. It was huge! I picked out a group of three and dove in at their 10 o'clock. I made one pass getting a few hits. I dove through them , climbed to the left and came up under three more. Just as I fired I heard some hits and blood splattered across my windscreen. I don't know if it was the bombers or one of the P51s. I dove while I was still conscience. Hearing no more hits, I bailed.
Unfortunately R/L intervened and that was it for the night.
Still I had a lot of fun. I thought every aspect was very realistic. The long climb out, trying to get organized, trying to find the enemy and then 30 seconds of panic when you do.
If this is how the new game will be then I think I will really enjoy it.
my
$ .02
63tb
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Originally posted by HardRock
Well seems on regular nights the LW is over 20k anyway...so what's the difference here? So it really has nothing to do with historical or not does it.
Your missing the pattern.
Whine if you lose. Then insult
Whine if you win, and it was hard. Then insult.
Whine if you win, and it was easy. Then insult.
If it's ever exactly how you like it....... Insult twice to make up for the lost whine.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Shifty
Your missing the pattern.
Whine if you lose. Then insult
Whine if you win, and it was hard. Then insult.
Whine if you win, and it was easy. Then insult.
If it's ever exactly how you like it....... Insult twice to make up for the lost whine.:rolleyes:
Seems like your whining about whining;)
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I only expect it to get worse as the ava arena is converted to TOD.
I have a few concerns with the game play as TOD concepts are introduced. But I will save those for another post.
Last night I about cancelled my account, NO joy in playing till the end. I spent the whole night climbing up to the altitude where the bombers were. Just to be shot down in seconds by the escourt, happen twice.
Before I get the (RTFM) teenie bomper responses.... yes, I stink in playing the game, I am, worse then a newbie.
Before I logged off I up a formation of Ju88 and flew over England, shot down a few fighters Bombed a airfield inland, made back to the coast of England before being shot down, (ran out of ammo)
As the new format is put into rotation, this is only goning to get worse. With the amount of time required to out fit a pilot, train, get into a squad who would want to switch sides to even up the numbers. Something has to be done on the massive bombers and really poor frame rates.
Congratulations on creating a mini me Main Arena.
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Originally posted by 1azbaer
Congratulations on creating a mini me Main Arena.
I guess the honeymoon is over.
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Originally posted by 1azbaer
I only expect it to get worse as the ava arena is converted to TOD.
I have a few concerns with the game play as TOD concepts are introduced. But I will save those for another post.
Last night I about cancelled my account, NO joy in playing till the end. I spent the whole night climbing up to the altitude where the bombers were. Just to be shot down in seconds by the escourt, happen twice.
Before I get the (RTFM) teenie bomper responses.... yes, I stink in playing the game, I am, worse then a newbie.
Before I logged off I up a formation of Ju88 and flew over England, shot down a few fighters Bombed a airfield inland, made back to the coast of England before being shot down, (ran out of ammo)
As the new format is put into rotation, this is only goning to get worse. With the amount of time required to out fit a pilot, train, get into a squad who would want to switch sides to even up the numbers. Something has to be done on the massive bombers and really poor frame rates.
Congratulations on creating a mini me Main Arena.
I'm not so sure that it's as bad as all that. a short trip to the MA sends me back here after a shower. IMO the level of play here is better by far. even when sharkeeRmoroniac shows up. AZ if you would like JG54 would extend you an invite then we can stink up the place together.
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I had fun flying as axis last night had no idea there was mission in the works when i logged on.I got 4 kills on the night 1 in a 190a8 over the channel then 3 in a 110 between 43 and paris you only get one pass then your nights done for 30 mins while climb back,however I enjoyed my self and i'll be back more.:aok
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Originally posted by KONG1
Seems like your whining about whining;)
You may be on to something:cry
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Originally posted by 1azbaer
I only expect it to get worse as the ava arena is converted to TOD.
I have a few concerns with the game play as TOD concepts are introduced. But I will save those for another post.
[/b]
The AvA is getting converted into TOD? Thats news.
Last night I about cancelled my account, NO joy in playing till the end. I spent the whole night climbing up to the altitude where the bombers were. Just to be shot down in seconds by the escourt, happen twice.
Before I get the (RTFM) teenie bomper responses.... yes, I stink in playing the game, I am, worse then a newbie.
Before I logged off I up a formation of Ju88 and flew over England, shot down a few fighters Bombed a airfield inland, made back to the coast of England before being shot down, (ran out of ammo)
[/b]
No one is forcing you to up to intercept the bombers. You could do what you did and up your own bomber. You could furball over the channel and ignore the bombers. You could run a jabo raid on england. Or just take a few days off, and because it's a ROLLING plane set, when you come back the setup will be magically different and maybe more to your liking.
As the new format is put into rotation, this is only goning to get worse. With the amount of time required to out fit a pilot, train, get into a squad who would want to switch sides to even up the numbers. Something has to be done on the massive bombers and really poor frame rates.
Congratulations on creating a mini me Main Arena.
How is organized, escorted mass bomber raids with historical plane matchups on a historical terrain, and the landgrab turned off ANYTHING like the MA?
The balance of numbers and kills has been swinging back and forth throughout the planeset. As it is, more people are flying allied - but many of those are in bombers. EVERY LW fighter currently enabled is carrying a K/D ratio over 1:1. In the past couple weeks there have been times (most of the time really) where the LW clearly had the upper hand. Within a few days the LW will have 109Ks and 190Ds, and even jets. And then before you know it we'll be on to a completely new terrain and a different planeset.
So just play and have fun ... and if you find you can't have fun by switching planes or switching teams if necessary, then take a day or two off and come back for some different planes/terrains.
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I dont think we even know what CT is going to be like. Right now we are doing the best we can as players to make it DIFFERENT from the MA.
Hopefully all the stuff us players have been doing, will be taken care by the CT, and the way its missions are setup.
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A few things,
I never complained about the plane sets. Nor the large numbers but the balance of the teams. The massvive number of bombers with the bomb dropped wreck my frame rate and many others as I was reading the POST on channel and hearing the comments on the vox. Not to memtion that I spent most of the time getting alt to engage. or waiting by upping from a rear base.
Sorry I do have other things in my life beside Aces, like work and life outside in the real world. Spending the whole time flying to the battle. quit frankly bites, and isnt worth the money spent on this GAME.
Yes, No body forced me to fly the intercept mission. But when the marjority of the action is there, you will be drawn to where the action is. I am sure if the raid was going the other way, many of the Bish would be echoing my fustration.
My comments are based upon Pyros Sticky in the CT forum titled Q&A.
I suggest that you all read it. The claim is that the no arena will be changed, but some how the CT not he special events arena is being used as the test bed. If it is not gonig to be changed then why Post it in the CT Forum? Why Change the name of the CT? Why not create another arena for testing of TOD and invite users?
The reasons I play in the CT: Smooth playing, wrapping is a minium, usally a higher class of players. I have created vitural friendships with flyiers on both sides
I have flown with many in the CT. NOt as a squad member but with them on the same team. I have even gunned for Filth. Vulching really isnrt an issue except for the occasional Newbie or a vist from a M.A. player.
As far taking a few days Off I do and will, This game is not my life. I was playing Monday night, after I made my POST.
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I have been in tha MA in my pervious Aces life (Aces 1) There were large scale missions, I havent flown it except a few times. since rejoining Aces. Frankly the CT was friendly place to play. AVA I find at time is as unfriendly as the MA.
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Originally posted by 1azbaer
My comments are based upon Pyros Sticky in the CT forum titled Q&A.
I suggest that you all read it. The claim is that the no arena will be changed, but some how the CT not he special events arena is being used as the test bed. If it is not gonig to be changed then why Post it in the CT Forum? Why Change the name of the CT? Why not create another arena for testing of TOD and invite users?
Dont confuse the old CT with Combat Tour (what was ToD). The AvA (the old CT) is not being used as a test bed for CT (the old ToD) the rolling plane set is the idea of Sable and the CT staff as a way to generate more interest. They changed the name of the AvA (old CT) because it was feared Tour of Duty might get them into copyright problems so it was changed to Combat Tour. They had to change the name of the AvA as it would be far to confusing to have two arenas with the initals CT.
The AvA is the same as the old CT, olny its better with the rolling plane set which just happens to be similar to Combat Tour.
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Grits, Long time, no shot you down or we agured.
I will wait to see what happens. or at least before next month before I get another Ding from Creations on my Bank account...
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LOL...I auger all the time, you just havent been around to see it!
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:eek: sheesh it was one mission out of a setup that been going on for over three weeks. Once it was over everything went back to normal. Get over it.
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LOL Okay you all have me convinced.
Cheers.
RTR
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Anyone find that the join window popup, is happeneing alot in here? Wonder if it means more players? Or if just in a smaller arena the odds are better to get joined by someone?
It would be nice if a smaller window that you could move was used.
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Ok long post to respond to quite a few different posts.
Since the complaints were directed against the mission, and I am the person who started organizing the mission, please bear with me as I respond.
Treize69 wrote:
Problem is that most of the axis dont want to spend all night climbing just to get killed on the first pass or jumped before they even get there. So they either dont check in at all, or take one look at the numbers and leave.
I know its historical, Im not complaining about that. But it makes for an extremely frustrating (and non-enjoyable) evening of gameplay.
If this is what ToD is going to be like for LW fliers, get ready for an astounding lack of opposition.
and
As I said Dan, the complaints arent (IMO) so much that the Allies got themselves organized (its about bloody time!) just that sometimes the historical aspect can overpower the fun aspect.
When you take a look at the numbers and want to leave without even getting up and giving it a try, then the fun has been sucked right out of it.
With me it's not so much proportions as numbers- theres a big difference between being down 15-5 and being down 60-20 or 75-25. Proportion is still 3:1, but the numbers you're up against are rediculous.
Well, there are probably a few 8th AF fliers who didnt want to spend all night climbing out from north of London, flying south across England, crossing the channel at it's widest point, flying inland and getting shot down by the first pass of some 190A8 either. But you don't see them griping here. It was historical. So were the multiple opportunities that the LW got to up again and again to engage as we plodded along. Funny the defination of frustrating, I find always seeing LA7s and SpitXVIs frustrating and always fighting at low altitude on the deck with no point frustrating. Each his own, and this is/was a historical arena. And I hope this is what Combat Tour is like. If it isn't then they are not being true to their advertising.
And I think I need to gripe that the allies were outnumbered. With the LW able to reup after getting shot down or land and get fresh guns we were outnumbered over the course of the mission. I shudder to think what would have happend if the LW would have taken a few minutes to group up and hit one portion of the bombers in force. Again historical, the LW were able to gain local superiority over portions of the bomber stream.
RTR wrote:
I flew axis for over an hour last night. Logged when it got to the point of being rediculous.
Allied mission or not. 74 vs 22 is overkill.
what happened to switching sides to even it up a bit? I don't mind being out numbered, but that was way over the top.
and
Guppy u misread my intention.
what normally happens in the AVA when the #'s become widely imbalanced is people switch to even it up a bit.
This clearly didn't happen last night. I welcome larger numbers and missions of any sort being organized in the AvA.
What i don't welcome is the standard MA mentality. It ain't the MA.
If this is what you want then stay in the MA. Everything you need is right there.
RTR, I let the Axis know this was coming 4 days ahead of time. This started out as the GHOSTS being escorted by the 78th and 4th. Well people have friends and we ended up with 21 or 22 B17 pilots and appoximately 25 escorts of all types. I never got an accurate count of the escorts as the squadrons were spread all over the map for takeoff from historical fields.
I did ask those Allies not involved in the mission to "keep the LW busy" at Calasis/Dover while we formed up and then suggested they up as LW and enjoy the interception. They were too busy trying to figure out how to capture a base on European soil. Now THAT sounds like MA mentality, which is what the continual furball between Dover and Calasis is as well. I also told the LW over channel 200 what we had, and where we were going. I could and would not ask people who had taken the time to get organized to go help the LW who either didn't care to or were unable to get organized in return.
Have wrote:
I think the keyword here is "time difference". You give a fair warning saying you will be flying on sunday evening (assuming about 2100-2300 hours) and there is about 7-10 hour difference to europe and to Finland where the last LW "horde", which you are referring to, came from. So it was about 0400-0600 time here on sunday-monday night and you are wondering why there weren't enough LW players? I am assume that many european players are dedicated LW drivers.
If you can organise this kind of an event again, please try to do so for example on sunday afternoon like the special events usually. I can guarantee you that at least the finnish lentolaivue 32/34 squads will be there to fly against you. The AARs and pictures look great, i would have been thrilled to see so many bombers in action.
Duly noted. Again as stated above this started out as a 78th FG/4th FG and GHOSTS mission and the GHOSTS and 4th have squadron night on Sunday at 9:00pm eastern. When :aok we do this again we will see about scheduling for an afternoon either Saturday or Sunday. What would be the best time for you dedicated LW players.
1azbaer wrote:
I only expect it to get worse as the ava arena is converted to TOD.
I have a few concerns with the game play as TOD concepts are introduced. But I will save those for another post.
Last night I about cancelled my account, NO joy in playing till the end. I spent the whole night climbing up to the altitude where the bombers were. Just to be shot down in seconds by the escourt, happen twice.
Before I get the (RTFM) teenie bomper responses.... yes, I stink in playing the game, I am, worse then a newbie.
As the new format is put into rotation, this is only goning to get worse. With the amount of time required to out fit a pilot, train, get into a squad who would want to switch sides to even up the numbers. Something has to be done on the massive bombers and really poor frame rates.
Congratulations on creating a mini me Main Arena.
and
A few things,
I never complained about the plane sets. Nor the large numbers but the balance of the teams. The massvive number of bombers with the bomb dropped wreck my frame rate and many others as I was reading the POST on channel and hearing the comments on the vox. Not to memtion that I spent most of the time getting alt to engage. or waiting by upping from a rear base.
Sorry I do have other things in my life beside Aces, like work and life outside in the real world. Spending the whole time flying to the battle. quit frankly bites, and isnt worth the money spent on this GAME.
Yes, No body forced me to fly the intercept mission. But when the marjority of the action is there, you will be drawn to where the action is. I am sure if the raid was going the other way, many of the Bish would be echoing my fustration.
My comments are based upon Pyros Sticky in the CT forum titled Q&A.
I suggest that you all read it. The claim is that the no arena will be changed, but some how the CT not he special events arena is being used as the test bed. If it is not gonig to be changed then why Post it in the CT Forum? Why Change the name of the CT? Why not create another arena for testing of TOD and invite users?
The reasons I play in the CT: Smooth playing, wrapping is a minium, usally a higher class of players. I have created vitural friendships with flyiers on both sides
I have flown with many in the CT. NOt as a squad member but with them on the same team. I have even gunned for Filth. Vulching really isnrt an issue except for the occasional Newbie or a vist from a M.A. player.
As far taking a few days Off I do and will, This game is not my life. I was playing Monday night, after I made my POST.
Well bud, I feel for you and your less than performing computer. Sounds like you either need to turn down your graphics or upgrade. This was a historical mission that occured at the appropriate time in the rolling plane set. Nothing special or devious about it.
This is not the MA, the MA has a "safe zone" behind the lines where you can safely climb out and get all the alt you need before you decide to engage. Well we were in your airspace and we owned it for a short period of time as we passed. My suggestion would be to climb out away from the bomber stream and get a wingman. Maybe you should read "I flew for the Fuhrer" as well.
Shifty wrote:
sheesh it was one mission out of a setup that been going on for over three weeks. Once it was over everything went back to normal. Get over it.
Uh one mission? huh.. :noid
FiLtH wrote:
Anyone find that the join window popup, is happeneing alot in here? Wonder if it means more players? Or if just in a smaller arena the odds are better to get joined by someone?
Yeah poor Connolly tried to join on me as were we climbing out and getting organized. I was just a little busy.
Krusty wrote:
The only time LW is ever over 20k is when there are B17s at no less than 27k trying to bomb over and over with impunity. We waste all our freaking time getting up to them, the RAF fighters all climb up looking for us, we give up or follow the bombers in their 400-mph dive from 27k to run as fast as possible, and then the RAF all have the sub-orbital alt advantage. Rinse. Repeat. Log off in frustration.
Ahh good, Krusty made it out of his bomb shelter.
Those interested I suggest reading Target Berlin: Mission 250, 6 March 1944 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1853674915/qid=1139936808/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-8627277-3506350?s=books&v=glance&n=283155) it is available from some online aviation bookstores.
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Hi Fencer, my post was not intended to criticize your mission, and I apologize if thats the way it sounded. In retrospect, after reading through all the replies to this post, I withdraw my criticism of the events that night.
I think the idea of running missions on this scale is actually a benefit to the AvA. It's too bad that we couldn't get more people involved on the LW side, however it was fairly accurate historically as is.
sir, and I hope we see more of you and your squadron in the AvA.
Filth, to get rid of the POP UP when someone is wanting to join you:
Type in the radio buffer .showjoin 0 when you log into the arena. This will cause the request to show in the text buffer instead of a pop-up. To accept, type in .accept XXX (X being the persons handle).
Cheers all
RTR
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Well, I myself liked it and want to see more of it.....this has been the best six weeks of the past two years for me being involved in Aces High...Props to all that took the time an effort to make it that way..:aok
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Originally posted by bcee
Well, I myself liked it and want to see more of it.....this has been the best six weeks of the past two years for me being involved in Aces High...Props to all that took the time an effort to make it that way..:aok
ditto
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Originally posted by RTR
Hi Fencer, my post was not intended to criticize your mission, and I apologize if thats the way it sounded. In retrospect, after reading through all the replies to this post, I withdraw my criticism of the events that night.
I think the idea of running missions on this scale is actually a benefit to the AvA. It's too bad that we couldn't get more people involved on the LW side, however it was fairly accurate historically as is.
sir, and I hope we see more of you and your squadron in the AvA.
Filth, to get rid of the POP UP when someone is wanting to join you:
Type in the radio buffer .showjoin 0 when you log into the arena. This will cause the request to show in the text buffer instead of a pop-up. To accept, type in .accept XXX (X being the persons handle).
Cheers all
RTR
The LW put up some decent JU88 missions early in the setup. That was a big step in making the arena better in my book. The Allies putting up the big buff raid was meant in the same spirit. Regardless of the numbers the LW guys did very well. The Allies were stuck to a missions scenario , so hoarding and clobbering a LW flight with 72 aircraft wasn't going to happen.
Theres always going to be people who will jump to the side that seems to have the best aircraft. There are those who stay on a side no matter what. Then there are those like the Gunfighters who will come in and do their best to ballance the arena. As this setup progressed you could see the Allies starting to gain numbers once the aircraft rotation started. Honestly we do need more LW units in the CT. The guys that just cross over when the prime aircraft are in play will never bring the skill level of JG54, the Finns, or any of you other guys that always fly LW. Because you guys stay proficient in the 109s, and 190s.
Hopefully all this activity will start attracting more LW types over from the MA.
Hang in there RTR.:aok
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Oh, Fencer, my comment wasn't about you! It's about normal AvA operations, not mission days and such. I've been off of AH for over a week it seems. Got in some time last night, but only in the MA. Sorry I missed it, though, because I saw your posts about setting it up before.
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This squad is trying..were brand new to the AvA...any people interested in flying a Romanian LW Squad are welcomed to contact our.. CO.. White13.. or any of the squad members at any time...
Regards...
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Originally posted by Krusty
Oh, Fencer, my comment wasn't about you! It's about normal AvA operations, not mission days and such. I've been off of AH for over a week it seems. Got in some time last night, but only in the MA. Sorry I missed it, though, because I saw your posts about setting it up before.
Oh I know Krusty! I just didnt see you up that evening so I was joking that you were huddled in an air raid shuttle. :)
I figured you would have enjoyed it.
And RTR no worries, I was just answering questions that came up.
Cheers
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Thing is guys whenever the "Allies" have that many pilots, well that's how the real allies flew. They gave the Lw overwhleming odds to contend with and bled them dry.
Just got done reading the Heinz Knoke book, where the guy was wounded 6 times and norrowly escaped several times being killed by Allied fighters.
Most of his wingmen died, he was burnt shot at his chute dislocated shoulders shattered pelvis,etc. Just because not only was a thunderbolt on his crate but lightnings and Mustangs . Contrair to what some have said that even when the LW had even odds they lost. Cus most of the times they were just overwhelmed
Another thing the LW had many Zerstoerers going around to destroy the bombers while lighter and better performing 109s engaged and distracted the fighters while the Fws ,110s and 210s did their work.
IHMO 74 to 22 gives realistic odds as to what the LW was facing. Whenever the Allied side masses a big formation of fighters and bombers . I always climb above the formation at least 5k and at least being co alt with the escort fighters, so by the time they're over France I have enough altitude and time to set up a Head on pass screaming in a 500mph. As soon as I am in I aim directly for the cockpit as if the pilot is hit with 4 20s or 2 30s in its soft nose it will mean probably that you will kill the lead buff in that formation and probably the AI buff next to that one. You may not get the kill in the short time, but you put another buff out of action.
Another thing if you guys go in one by one you'll get picked off by the escorts easily,that's a fact, however if you come in as a group of Fw190s and 109s you may have a much, much better chance of surviving, even shooting down several allied escorts. As in the real war the LW couldn't hope to shoot down every single bomber they saw but they hoped to cause enough casualties so that the bomber offensive would stop. It happened for a couple of weeks at the end of 43 when the Bombers were being sent without long range escort.
It's the same as always yesterday I was in and the Allies came in singles or pairs even though they had an inmense numerical superiority over the LW and they died ending up many times ganged and brought to the deck where even more LW fighters pounced.
It wasn't until later on where they amassed their whole fighters into one formation that they could take control. I had to climb to 30k and even then I saw a couple higher. I just did one pass and went home and landed, cus I'm not going to give someone a kill while being ganged :D
Think I landed 3 kills that sortie, it was sad to see that our guys just kept upping from front line fields instead of taking off a bit on the rear and get enough altitude to at least give them a fighting chance.
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Holy crap. Glasses makes a post. Are you back Glasses? Glad to see you're on zee luftwaffe side.
Yes, historically 75v25 are realistic odds at that time. It'll get worse as time moves forward too unfortunately.
Either way, Glasses is correct - you just have to deal with uneven battles. No fight in the air was always even numbered.
And Glasses, did we say 'welcome back!' ? ;)
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Well it's a belated welcome back Mistah fork cus I've been here a coupleof months now :D . Just got tired of the MA and more often I venture into the AvA cus MA La7 spit16 P-51D rocketstang gets tiresome.
So for the time being I"m back like a bad case of genital warts :D