Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: JAWS2003 on February 16, 2006, 11:59:18 AM
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It would be really nice to know why was Crump banned from the forum. He was the guy that always backed up his opinion with HARD DATA. With proof.
The guy was a FW-190 archive. :( :( You could learn so much from his posts.
This is sad. :cry :cry :(
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He questioned the basic professional integrity and honesty of HTC.
And the "proof" can be debated as well. "Weird science" i would say.
Good riddance.
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Crump does have a large source of data to draw from. No denying it.
However when someone continually makes personal or derogatory remarks towards members of a community, it becomes in the best interest of the community to part company with that person.
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Hi Skuzzy,
>However when someone continually makes personal or derogatory remarks towards members of a community, it becomes in the best interest of the community to part company with that person.
Good policy! I only regret it wasn't in place yet back when I was at the receiving end of personal and derogatory remarks.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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These are obviously HTC laws and we accept them when we subscribe. But honestly, there are a bunch of vocal player well skilled and used in attacking, hijiacking threads and offending others. Probably in a more subtle way but not less disturbing and annoying for educated people. Just a blind moderator cannot spot them. I'd like to see them banned as well. I dont like double standards. Sad.
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Too bad , his 3D equations and his radio discution with Bruno where very entertaining.
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"However when someone continually makes personal or derogatory remarks towards members of a community, it becomes in the best interest of the community to part company with that person."
I have seen this cleansing happen in WW2OL boards, too.
It only results in making the discussion and critique continue on other boards and I'm sure it is not very good advertising when it happens elsewhere than here, not forgetting the message it sends to potential customers on other boards about how HTC handles critique.
:aok
-C+
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I think in Crumpp's case is was more about his frustration at seeing nothing change even when he presented hard data. And when dealing with people at a distance it's very easy to assume there are reasons beyond simple resource allocation why some things never seem to get fixed.
Unforunately, this is one of those cases where the Cone of Silence about ongoing development makes it look like HTC doesn't give a damn about issues that players are complaining about ... for a long time. And that leads to frustration for people like Crumpp, who finally let it get ahead of him and said things he shouldn't, and under other circumstances probably wouldn't.
-DoK (... always the voice of reason ... riiiiight ...)
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Can't say I all broke up about it.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I think in Crumpp's case is was more about his frustration at seeing nothing change even when he presented hard data. And when dealing with people at a distance it's very easy to assume there are reasons beyond simple resource allocation why some things never seem to get fixed.
Unforunately, this is one of those cases where the Cone of Silence about ongoing development makes it look like HTC doesn't give a damn about issues that players are complaining about ... for a long time. And that leads to frustration for people like Crumpp, who finally let it get ahead of him and said things he shouldn't, and under other circumstances probably wouldn't.
-DoK (... always the voice of reason ... riiiiight ...)
:O :eek: :confused: :huh
Who are you and what have you done with the Master of Darkness.
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Originally posted by Charge
"However when someone continually makes personal or derogatory remarks towards members of a community, it becomes in the best interest of the community to part company with that person."
I have seen this cleansing happen in WW2OL boards, too.
It only results in making the discussion and critique continue on other boards and I'm sure it is not very good advertising when it happens elsewhere than here, not forgetting the message it sends to potential customers on other boards about how HTC handles critique.
:aok
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I have no problem with someone going to another board to complain how they were not allowed to abuse members of our community and got booted for it. I rather hope they do.
It has nothing to do with being critiqued. Check what I said. There is a big difference between crtiquing someone and being flat out abusive or derogatory, especially after being asked not to do it.
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Too bad , his 3D equations and his radio discution with Bruno where very entertaining.
Thanks, I am glad some one enjoyed it...
The only LW plane that really needs fixing in AH is the G-14. Information was posted 2 months ago in the bug forum after testing by me and others that showed the G-14 to be underperforming.
Here's is the bug thread dated 11-15-2005:
Fth - 109g-14 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164744)
If the squeaky wheel gets you banned what's it take to get the G-14 fixed? Bribery..? :p
I don't get along with Crumpp or even like him but his banning seemed out of left field considering the conduct of some of the 'teachers pets' on this forum. They just get 'moderated' a lot rather then banned out right...
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In some ways it's too bad that he won't be posting here anymore, as he somtimes had some very interesting docs and info, and I had some good discussions with him.
But on the other hand, I can't say I'll miss the "dark side" of his personality:
Originally posted by Crumpp
I am not posting the documentation I have on these boards nor do care what "history" gamers present. If it takes more than a few minutes of my time, it is not worth a reply on these boards.
All the best,
Crumpp
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Again, whats sad is that a medium BUT CONTNUOUS level of harassing is well tolerated by moderators. The single (well perhaps not single) burst by tired harassed people is instantly hit by a ban.
I remenber a thread where ppl who prefer to rtb were considered almost as idiots by a crowd of low professionist furballers of the "take-off, fly in circles, shoot, bite your own tail, die and take off again".
In my humble opinion it is not a matter of thick skin. When threads degenerate freely in that way with such stoopid theories carried as the new laws of dogfight it means two things: "AH is the kingdom of the quake dogfight with moderators supporting harassers and indirectly those theories".
Ah, where are DocDoom, Vigilante and all those old masters of the theory and practice of the best online fighting styles? :huh
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Gatt: Do not confuse the ablilty and time to handle every instance (we do not ever have enof) with the desire to keep the fourm civil.
Also eveyone here is in MY house. Make absoulutly no mistake about that.
There is a difference between two guest getting into an agument in my house vs a guest impuning my integrity to everone else in my house.
I have to live here. But I do get to choose who is a guest or not.
HiTech
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Crump does have a large source of data to draw from. No denying it.
However when someone continually makes personal or derogatory remarks towards members of a community, it becomes in the best interest of the community to part company with that person.
In all the Treads I see Crump post i find him posting data and nice information. After 5-6 replays I see the same 2-3 people jumping in just to mess his tread. Honestly, this is what I see in all the treads that went bad. I see the same few people chasing and harassing him.
How come duels ala Milo/Kurfust are simply tolerated or "moderated", and you have Crump banned. I think it gets to one's nerves having the same guys harassing you and messing all the civilized discussions you take part in.
Honestly that's what I see when I read the forum.
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Pretty well said.
Over my forums, I insisted folks simply obey the rules. You'd a thought Id stole the secret to Coca Cola!
Pity he has to be banned. Perhaps he'll smarten up and appeal to come back.
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Originally posted by JAWS2003
In all the Treads I see Crump post i find him posting data and nice information. After 5-6 replays I see the same 2-3 people jumping in just to mess his tread. Honestly, this is what I see in all the treads that went bad. I see the same few people chasing and harassing him.
How come duels ala Milo/Kurfust are simply tolerated or "moderated", and you have Crump banned. I think it gets to one's nerves having the same guys harassing you and messing all the civilized discussions you take part in.
Honestly that's what I see when I read the forum.
Well kurffy was banned also .
Yup a real tremor in the force.
Bronk
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Uh, Kurfurst got banned Jaws, for the same reason.
If you are in someone's home punching holes in thier walls, and are asked politely to stop and you do not, guess what might happen?
Like HT said, do not confuse us missing behavioral issues with accepting those issues. Putting that aside, it still grants no excuse for poor behavior.
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I'm sure crumpp won't return and he will allow his subscription to AHII to lapse. he is already involved in another WWII mmog as an aircraft model developement consultant and as a player.
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I don't blame him. He was harassed too much here.
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I don't blame him either. given the amount of time and money he has spent researching the FW190 and now other types of WWII aircraft and how he has freely shared this information with HTC and the members here it comes as surprise to me that he would be banned. it's actually a good catalyst for him to move on to other places where he is respected and appreciated. he's genuinely a good a guy and very helpful. he is also currently serving in our armed forces and is often at the very tip of the spear in our nation's fight against global terrorism. I'm glad and very proud to count him among my friends. he's the real deal.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Uh, Kurfurst got banned Jaws, for the same reason.
If you are in someone's home punching holes in thier walls, and are asked politely to stop and you do not, guess what might happen?
Like HT said, do not confuse us missing behavioral issues with accepting those issues. Putting that aside, it still grants no excuse for poor behavior.
I do understand this very well.
I think he did it out of frustration. He had the best information for FW-190. This aircraft is rather poorly modeled in the game. This is no secret. His material could have helped fix the plane once and for all.
His valuble material was ignored, and all the discussions he got in got trashed by few guys.
I understand you, but I understand him too.
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crumpp = voss or close enough imo not to matter.
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Originally posted by JAWS2003
I do understand this very well.
I think he did it out of frustration. He had the best information for FW-190. This aircraft is rather poorly modeled in the game. This is no secret. His material could have helped fix the plane once and for all.
His valuble material was ignored, and all the discussions he got in got trashed by few guys.
I understand you, but I understand him too.
Once again we are accuse us of stuff that is in no way factual. None of his material was ignored. Could it also be that crump only tended to post the data that showed the FW's in the very best light? And hence makes you belive the following?
FW-190. This aircraft is rather poorly modeled in the game. This is no secret.
Quite frankly I found any discussion with crump almost imposible and extreamly frustating. So I pretty much quit trying to discuss any thing with him. But I read almost all his post, mostly when he posted some data sheets that we hadn't seen before. But very rairly did I ever agree with his conclusions.
On a lot of his post I saw lots of debating his conclusions. I belive this is what diccusion fourms are for. Stating that you do not agree with some one and posting your resonse why is how a lot of us gain better insight into the topic at hand, But with crump the debates would rapidly degenerate. And the debate would change to a completly new topic.
Good debates expand knowledge of all involved. Bad debates are people just trying to prove they are correct.
So I agree with you a lot of stuff was from crumps frustraion. But is that frustration realy justified? Should I completly change our buisness just to alivate crumps frustration?
His material could have helped fix the plane once and for all.
It would have changed the FW, the debate about "Fixed" would still continue.
HiTech
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Yeah, just because crumpp had data doesn't mean it was the correct data. HTC has data also and has many years of research put into it. The only reason crumpps info was "right" was because you supported what his said but it doesn't nessicarily make it true. Heck, I could research a plane, find all the best data and any negative I find, just ignore. Then post only what I want too in order to make HTCs modeling look bad. All those who love that plane would jump on the band wagon and whine. I noticed with crumpp whenever you brought up another source he would always try discredit it especially allies testing german hardware. It always seemed his data was correct and no one else could possibly be right. It's almost impossible to hold a constructive discussion with someone like that. One final note I'll make is this. I do admit that there are some things that need to be fixed such as the flap speed of the 109, but why is it so hard to believe that a 109 flew how it does in RL? Rarely, if ever do we fight in the MA how they fought in RL. In RL you had cordination so a planes weakness could be well over come by good teamwork. Maybe the simple fact is the lone wolf 109/190s just aren't as good as allied fighters became over the war. I know you'll cite specific times where this 109 pilot blew up 50 gillion allies by himself but who knows what the real curcumstances are. None of us were there so we can only guess and if you like german iron, you're gonna be naturally biased to believe it was because the 109/190 was a superior plane and not say pilot experience or just plain luck.
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actually some of crumpp's data would actually hurt the current models. the FW190A5 is in some aspects modelled incorrctly to it's favor according to data he discovered and provided. he stated as much in numerous posts. like or dislike the man he presents what he finds. from conversation with him one easily comes away with the impression that his interest was in improving the game and not self interest nor justification. I can see how it would become frustrating to the guy on the other side though. frankly if I were in HT's position I'd fire someone who constantly bickered with me or as in this case (well, almost anyways as banning seems pretty rude) I would politely ask them to patronize my most disliked competitor. I do it all the time. since the developers have decided to allow things to remain with the status quo then the only choice for the person unwilling to accept that decision is to not patronize this game and move on.
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Originally posted by hitech
Could it also be that crump only tended to post the data that showed the FW's in the very best light? And hence makes you belive the following?
HiTech
Could be, but if you look at his opinion about the FW-190A5 weight in game and his posts in this tread:
Did 190A-5/A-6 ever use max boost 1.68 ata in combat (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170516)
I see he is quite honest. :(
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Originally posted by JAWS2003
Could be, but if you look at his opinion about the FW-190A5 weight in game and his posts in this tread:
Did 190A-5/A-6 ever use max boost 1.68 ata in combat (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170516)
I see he is quite honest. :(
Key word is opinion. The simple fact is HTC has data of their own that I'm sure they researched and have decided to go with. Once again, who's to say his data is more accurate than HTCs? All this is is one group with their data against another. If you're a fan of one side then you will side with that sides data. I'm not saying crummp didn't do his research and was VERY informative, but just because he presented data that doesn't make it the end all be all.
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The only sets of climb/speed charts I've ever been able to find, on this board or otherwise are the english translation of the Focke Wulf curves for the 190A8, the Focke Wulf curves for the 190A5, and the allied test data of the captured EB106. Our A8 is REAL close the Focke Wulf data, and our A5 is REAL close to the EB106 data from the testing I've done. Crump mentioned a Rechlin dataset for the A8 a few times, but I've never been able to find it, and he wouldn't post it (although he did say he sent it to HT, so I'm sure they've seen it). If the A5 were made to match the FW data, it would be a bit faster on the deck, but climb worse all around.
In terms of these kind of objectively tested and well documented performance areas, the AH 190s seem to be very well modeled. HTC doesn't achieve this by just entering what it's top speed, or max climb rate should be - they do it by making sure that the thrust, lift, weight, and drag are correct, and then letting the game do the math determining what the plane will do. So why would one plane that hits its known testable figures be wrong when the others are right? And how do you know it's wrong? Based off of some subjective feeling and a few vague descriptions of it's use written 60 years ago? We had people in the MA claiming that the Spit XVI was faster then the La-7 when it first came out, based on their feeling and observation.
In short, even when my "hunch" disagrees with HTC's modeling I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, since they've input the historical data and done the math to get their result. I might have read some of what they have, and have a very limited comprehension of the math involved - hardly grounds to argue the point. And to top it off, HT is one of the few guys (maybe the only one) on these boards that has actually flown one of these fighters we argue about so much.
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not to hijack but i always had a nagging question.
The US captured a KI 84 and was tested with us fuel and was markedly faster than with japanese fuel. Hence better fuel better performance.
Now Crump had stated that FW that was captured and tested ran worst with allied fuel than the fuel that LW. Now I cant understand this.
I am no aircraft mech but i have many years as a hobbyist auto mech. If i was told that the test fuel was of higher octane i would have made changes in timing carb setting and plugs and a few other settings.
My point being I think that the USAAF would have a more knowledgeable tech than me. So why was engine performance worst , because the KI 84 performed much better.
Something is not quite rite.
if anybody has an answer please post.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Sable
So why would one plane that hits its known testable figures be wrong when the others are right? And how do you know it's wrong? Based off of some subjective feeling and a few vague descriptions of it's use written 60 years ago? We had people in the MA claiming that the Spit XVI was faster then the La-7 when it first came out, based on their feeling and observation.
Every time we have a patch people start claiming all kinds of outrageous changes based on "feelings". I dont believe in "feeling" changes, but then again, I dont watch Oprah either.
Originally posted by Bronk
So why was engine performance worst , because the KI 84 performed much better.
Something is not quite rite.
if anybody has an answer please post.
I have never bought that story either. I've tuned a lot of different types of engines and they are all basically the same. Sure, there are some nuances but a good engine tuner can make anything work.
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Germans used a different fuel than Americans, IE the Kommandogeraet was configured to the synthetic fuel of the Germans the US Had natural fuel that was too rich, thus the Kommandogerat couldn't handle the mixture well and fouled up the plugs.
The Japanese I believe used natural fuels too so when the Americans used 110 octane on it it performed way better and cooler than with the Japanese fuel.
From what I've understood from Crumpp's posts.
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Originally posted by Glasses
Germans used a different fuel than Americans, IE the Kommandogeraet was configured to the synthetic fuel of the Germans the US Had natural fuel that was too rich, thus the Kommandogerat couldn't handle the mixture well and fouled up the plugs.
The Japanese I believe used natural fuels too so when the Americans used 110 octane on it it performed way better and cooler than with the Japanese fuel.
From what I've understood from Crumpp's posts.
that pretty much nails it.
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Originally posted by Glasses
Germans used a different fuel than Americans, IE the Kommandogeraet was configured to the synthetic fuel of the Germans the US Had natural fuel that was too rich, thus the Kommandogerat couldn't handle the mixture well and fouled up the plugs.
The Japanese I believe used natural fuels too so when the Americans used 110 octane on it it performed way better and cooler than with the Japanese fuel.
From what I've understood from Crumpp's posts.
OK first what is kommmandogeraet.
Second Japanese by the end of war like the Germans were using synthetic fuels. Think Japanese fuel made from pine oil or something like that.
Not trying to be difficult but I Just don't think USAAF techs were that inept to modify a system to make it run on fuels available.
Bronk
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I don't think it's ineptitude as much as unfamiliarity. a good tech can make almost any device work at 90% given the time but the guy who has training and experience will always do much better especially on a complex device such as the kommandograet.
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Originally posted by Bronk
OK first what is kommmandogeraet.
An alternate spelling of the german Kommandogerat :)
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No one needs to answer following question:
What are you willing to believe?
Regarding the fuel and the BMW 801, see this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156584). In the USAF tests the EB-104 used grade 140 fuel (just like USAF Ki-84 tests).
gripen
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Essentially the Kommandogeraet configured the Mixture ,Manifold, RPM, and superchargers for the optimum performance at altitude and different power configs.
Essentially relieving the pilot of the tedious duty of managing each individually.
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Dammit , I didn't answered the question.
The Kommandogerat is an electro-mecanical computer used to set mixture ,rpm etc on the FW engine
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Thanks to all that posted.
Gripen is there any flight test data after the test stand fix was implemented.
If there is can you point me in the direction of it . This fuel thing has piqued my interest a bit.
Bronk
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Originally posted by hitech
Gatt: Do not confuse the ablilty and time to handle every instance (we do not ever have enof) with the desire to keep the fourm civil.
Also eveyone here is in MY house. Make absoulutly no mistake about that.
There is a difference between two guest getting into an agument in my house vs a guest impuning my integrity to everone else in my house.
I have to live here. But I do get to choose who is a guest or not.
HiTech
I respect house owner even if I pay to be a guest. But please, make moderators stop those silly harassers and hijiackers as well. No one is so thick skinned to resist for long time to them. Its a pity to loose ppl with such good stuff about airplanes. And, no moderator using (or suspected of using) double standards will ever be respected by the community.
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I pretty much believe the PERFORMANCE data is correct.
However, Eric Brown explicitly states on more than one occasion that a Spit IX is a perfect match for a contemporary Fw-190A. Try that in AH.
The man was a combat as well as a test pilot and holds world records for number of aircraft flown and number of deck landings. To me that means something.
I'm not a pilot and certainly no researcher. But I do feel strongly that the Fw-190 should't stall at the slighest provocation of 'G'. But it's just a 'feeling' and as long we don't have a real Fw-190 to fly against a real Spit, we will never know we can only speculate. And boy, we do!
I am really sorry Crumpp got out of line and I think that he became more than a little fanatical about his 190. But he WAS harrassed and the harrassers should be punished too.
If two people fight in MY house, I kick them both out.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Gripen is there any flight test data after the test stand fix was implemented.
RAE flew following amount of flight hours with planes using the BMW 801 (according to "War Prizes" by Phil Butler):
MP499 (Fw 190 A-3) 12:15
PE882 (Fw 190 A-4/U8) 52:20
PJ876 (Ju 88 R-1) 66:55
PM679 (Fw 190 A-4/U8) 8:35
PN999 (Fw 190 A-5/U8) 14:00
TP190 (Ju 88 G-1) 32:35
The engine used for that bench test was taken from MP499 and all flying with other planes using the BMW 801 was done after the bench tests. The PE882 was the main 190 used by RAE for testing and performance as well as drag test data can be found from PRO among the Fw 190 documents.
Note that the fix was nothing more than changing the plugs and rough adjusting of the fuel pump to compensate different gravity of the fuels.
gripen
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"If two people fight in MY house, I kick them both out."
Even if the other likes the same cars as you do, and occasionally remebers to point out how splendid you are? :)
Gripen, which of those FWs was it that couldn't get above some altitude without the engine fully cutting out?
-C+
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Originally posted by storch
I'm sure crumpp won't return and he will allow his subscription to AHII to lapse. he is already involved in another WWII mmog as an aircraft model developement consultant and as a player.
Which WWII mmog would that be Storch?
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Originally posted by Charge
Gripen, which of those FWs was it that couldn't get above some altitude without the engine fully cutting out?
That seem to be from US NAVY Fw 190 tests.
gripen
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Originally posted by Harry
Which WWII mmog would that be Storch?
I'll decline to post it here questioning the proprietry of such an act.
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Very well.
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Originally posted by Timofei
He questioned the basic professional integrity and honesty of HTC.
And the "proof" can be debated as well. "Weird science" i would say.
Good riddance.
Did you even know Crump?
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I agree with Gatt on this, he pretty much said it all.
I am not saying Crumpp should or should not be banned, however, there are lots of people on this board (and recently in the MA aswell) who are way worse for HTC.
Several people on this board are here purly to start flames, if not with their own account then with a shade account. Luftwhine threads are a perfect example of this. Discussions about planes rapidly get hijacked and flamed.
Of course this goes the other way around aswell, not only LW threads.
Hopefully the mods (be it HTC or player mods) will spot those few bad apples (as the rest of us already have) and shut em down.
Both the board and MA have been out of hand for a long time, specially noticable for those of us who have been here a long time.
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I don't see why crumpp should have been banned. however if you take it in the context that hitech framed it, to paraphrase "it's MY house" and we all are guests here, then it's easy to see that it was a personal decision. the thing is that in my opinion we aren't guests at hitech's house as much as we are paying residents at hitech's apartment block. Hitech does have the right to renew which ever lease he wants or reject those he deems to be too much trouble. I say it was an unwise move because it appears to be a decision based on pettiness and emotion but it's his right to do so.
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Originally posted by Charge
"If two people fight in MY house, I kick them both out."
Even if the other likes the same cars as you do, and occasionally remebers to point out how splendid you are? :)
-C+
Charge, I once kicked my girlfriend out because she was in a bad argument with her best friend. No problem with that, but not in my house. No we weren't living together at that time, but I friendly (more or less) requested them to resume their shouting outside. They did and apologized later.
She had no reasons to like my car (a battered VW at the time) but she did think I was splendid for a very long time. Sadly, this only proves she was blind ;)
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If we pay 15 bucks a month is irrelevant, besides, people who don't play at all can still use the forums. If the residents are a nuisance, you'll get them out. Even if people totally disagree they should remain respectful to each other but I have the distinct impression that Crumpp was pushed too far. He didn't start out like that. I agree that he was quite obsessive but he had tons of data he was willing to share. Even HTC agrees on this.
That the folks at HTC are pissed off because he questions their integrity I can understand. I can also understand that Crumpp got frustrated that the Fw-190's were never changed as he very firmly believed he was right. Still, it is not his game so he should accept that they weren't changed. Nevertheless I totally agree that all 190 threads with Crumpp in them were flamed recently, just as the 109 word would turn up Kurfurst and Milo. This I do not like.
Info on the 109 and 190 is hard to come by and now we have lost the best authority on the 190. That I considere VERY sad, the other factors notwithstanding. And I still think the 190 is a dog in AH. But I won't lose any sleep over it if it remains so until the rest of eternity, EVEN if it was proven beyond doubt that the FM is wrong. It's only a game people.
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I am not a researcher, and dont have an engineering background. The calculations were beyind my ken, but....
Crummp was always sure he was right. When other engineers challenged him, he argued alone (is he REALLY the only engineer who can see the truth???) or changed the subject.
Crumpp was quick to point out the mistakes others made, but I dont recall him ever stepping up to say "I screwed that up...sorry." edit: in fairness, I didnt track the BBS looking for his posts tho...
Crumpp had an agenda -- he posted against US plane modeling, and for LW (esp 190).
Crummp did not have a graceful demeanor online, and did not show respect for others and their input.
Any one of these is common enough around here, but combining all four went a long way towards neutralizing any positive contribution. I honestly wonder how different his reception -- and his resulting frustration -- might have been if he treaded with respect.
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Originally posted by storch
I don't see why crumpp should have been banned. however if you take it in the context that hitech framed it, to paraphrase "it's MY house" and we all are guests here, then it's easy to see that it was a personal decision. the thing is that in my opinion we aren't guests at hitech's house as much as we are paying residents at hitech's apartment block. Hitech does have the right to renew which ever lease he wants or reject those he deems to be too much trouble. I say it was an unwise move because it appears to be a decision based on pettiness and emotion but it's his right to do so.
Crumpp had descended to the point where he was charging that HTC deliberately overmodeled Allied rides in order to attract customers. If you missed that here on the BBS, you certainly didn't miss it in the AvA arena. Were I HTC, I don't think I'd let repeated challenges to my integrity go unanswered. The pettiness and emotion weren't all on one side, Storch.
- oldman
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I am sorry to hear these news. I didn't think he really crossed the line, - well, it was a tad too much when he went for HT, and I remember someone hitting me when I happened to agree with HT.
I was looking forward to discuss BoB stuff with Crumpp, - where he actually IMHO was seriously in the fog and ready to defend any nonsense to the death, - so it would have been a party.
Well, is the ban always terminal or is it a sentence?
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Crumpp had descended to the point where he was charging that HTC deliberately overmodeled Allied rides in order to attract customers. If you missed that here on the BBS, you certainly didn't miss it in the AvA arena. Were I HTC, I don't think I'd let repeated challenges to my integrity go unanswered. The pettiness and emotion weren't all on one side, Storch.
- oldman
^^^^What Oldman said.
I didn't even know a Crumpp existed until I shot him down in the AvA. He immediately went into a rant about how I'm an Allied this and that, (which isn't true since I fly whatever side needs the pilots) and that I'm just a noob because I don't fly LW iron...yada, yada, yada. (Which differs from when I shoot Storch down, because Storch immediately types over open channel that he was lucky to survive as long as he did given how overmatched in piloting skills he is :) )
He got bitter and let it interfere with any sort of pleasure that he might get out of the game. Problem was, he took that bitterness out on anyone flying pixels other than LW pixels.
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Originally posted by JAWS2003
I do understand this very well.
I think he did it out of frustration. He had the best information for FW-190. This aircraft is rather poorly modeled in the game. This is no secret. His material could have helped fix the plane once and for all.
His valuble material was ignored, and all the discussions he got in got trashed by few guys.
I understand you, but I understand him too.
Who are you and why do you continue to drag this thread on? I've never seen you in the MA or CT, nor the DA or SEA. You're beating the dead horse with "subliminally" telling HTC you concur with Crump is getting recognized MORE everytime you post in this thread.
I have played this game for 4 years, heck my handle is "Karaya", I fly the 109F4, G2, and EVERY 190 in here. I turnfight with em, E fight with em. I've also read some of Crump's data sheets at various times. I agree with HT simply because in his summaries, he would at times conflict with earlier points he had made. But, he was getting "personal" and making derogatory remarks towards HTC. The Arenas and this BBS are NOT PUBLIC, they are the PROPERTY of HiTechCreations.
Finally, Crump fell victim to a quote my old man often uses: "Don't s*it where you sleep." Getting confrontational with HT or any of HTC's crew is lunacy at it's finest.
<> HTC for still putting the best efforts forward for making a fun game, and listening your subscribers.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Who are you and why do you continue to drag this thread on? I've never seen you in the MA or CT, nor the DA or SEA.
Karaya
I'm just a guy that plays the game when i have time. I'm no veteran or ace.
I started playing aces high in 2001 I was playing under that account for around year and a half. I moved and stopped playing ah. My brother is still playing since then on the same account.I won't mention his game name. Now is his account and i don't wont to drag him in this. I came back When AH2 come out. I don't know how long I played that time but I think for around a year. That time my calsign was Jaws 2002 or something.
Now I'm back since December. My game name is Jawzzy. I'm not an ace but I think I understand the planes a little.
I don't play much now since I don't have much time.
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To be fair if we use the behavior of others on this forum as a yard stick then Crumpp falls some where in the middle. HTC can certainly ban who ever they want, that's not my point but those of you coming out the wood work to tell the rest of us how 'bad' Crumpp was is just ridiculous. I have had many disagreements with Crumpp since he first began posting on this forum but his behavior in total is no better or worse then 90% of the rest of us...
Wotan mit uns!!!
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Wotan mit uns?
Nei nei...:
Megi Óðinn vera með oss!
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Originally posted by storch
I'm sure crumpp won't return and he will allow his subscription to AHII to lapse. he is already involved in another WWII mmog as an aircraft model developement consultant and as a player.
This would seem to indicate a conflict of interest as Crumpp was constantly complaining about the LW planes here thereby causing discontent amongst the playerbase while working for a competitor.
Bad form if nothing else.
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Originally posted by Fencer51
This would seem to indicate a conflict of interest as Crumpp was constantly complaining about the LW planes here thereby causing discontent amongst the playerbase while working for a competitor.
Bad form if nothing else.
Yeah ... that does seem kind of odd. Yet not inconsistent with this domain. Us old bastids know of plenty of cases where some person offered data and/or services to a game company, got turned away, and went to the competitor ... or ... uh ... started their own company. :D
And Crumpp wasn't saying anything that a lot of other people weren't also saying about the handling of the LW rides. Chicken and egg, I guess. He just had more hard data to back it all up.
And, to be quite fair, HT showed a lot more restraint that I woulda in terms of the personal attacks made on himself and HTC.
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While I found this post mildly INteresting, there's 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Wilbus
... Luftwhine threads are a perfect example of this. Discussions about planes rapidly get hijacked and flamed.
...
Both the board and MA have been out of hand for a long time, specially noticable for those of us who have been here a long time.
I don't know why people take it so personal when it's suggested that a plane is undermodeled (LW) or overmodeled (Spit). All most people want - HT included - is that it be right and balanced. I'd love the Fw190 to be modelled so it was more competetive in the MA; but it ain't, I speak my case here, and fly an La-5 instead. No biggy.
The forum threads on bannings and Ch.200 violations seems to be on the rise recently. Maybe it's HTC tightening up the ship in preparation for ToD. Don't know - but there's a lot of petty idiocy in the MA right now - I'm hoping its just people bored waiting for ToD to start and not a new generation of mindless crusty-knuckled idiots invading the game (in which case they'll need to be stomped into gravy).
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Originally posted by storch
he is already involved in another WWII mmog as an aircraft model developement consultant and as a player.
WHICH ONE???
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Let's cut to the chase here, gentlemen.
Crumpp's major fault has always been his inability to know when it was time to zip closed his pie-hole in a public forum.
Any issues he may have perceived with the aircraft or HTC could have addressed in e-mails to HTC. He did not have to spew his frustration all over the BBS.
There's a simple protocol for expressing your views and that protocol requires you to do so privately.
His obsession with one type of aircraft is, well, unusual. To me, it bordered on manic as times. Nonetheless, Crumpp was a valuable resource for documentation on the Focke Wulfs.
I have flown against him several times and he was not obnoxious or rude. Seemed like an ordinary guy who enjoys his hobby.
He was not happy with the way the 190s flying in Aces High, and he stated so. However, I can't help but wonder how much of that was his flying and not the aircraft modeling. It's not uncommon to see or hear complaints about aircraft models when the pilot is unable to do what he expects to. God knows, I've been guilty of that myself. It's always easier to blame the flight model than admit you haven't the skills to utilize the aircraft's potential.
More importantly, it's necessary to remember that this is a game, a hobby. This is not real life and getting one's life tied up into a knot over a flight model in a game indicates that one needs to re-evaluate their life's priorities.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Yeah ... that does seem kind of odd. Yet not inconsistent with this domain. Us old bastids know of plenty of cases where some person offered data and/or services to a game company, got turned away, and went to the competitor ... or ... uh ... started their own company. :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Widewing
More importantly, it's necessary to remember that this is a game, a hobby. This is not real life and getting one's life tied up into a knot over a flight model in a game indicates that one needs to re-evaluate their life's priorities.
Well said WW. Well said. This is just a game. That is owned by HTC. As owners, if they decided to make a P-51D with a pink paint scheme, they can. Or put a bottle of whiskey in a cockpit - they can. It's their product, their game. If we don't like it, there are other, much less impressive WWII MMOLG's out there.
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
If we don't like it, there are other, much less impressive WWII MMOLG's out there.
As soon as "Grenada Online" is released I am sooooo outa here:t
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Crump made some worthy contributions to the boards in the form of data, despite his obvious bias, and weak interpretation. He could also be charming, but there was a darker side to his character, more than once I’ve heard him react to being shot down in the arena, with a torrent of abuse and profanity directed at the shooter. I remember thinking that the man was unstable, and after seeing so many of his threads deteriorate I’ve deliberately avoided responding to his posts despite being compelled to correct his many errors and inaccuracies.
I have faith in HT’s good judgement and have no doubt that this was a sound decision and that future posts will be more constructive as a result.
I accept the use of these boards as a privilege granted by HTC.
I enjoy that privilege.
Thank you HiTech!
Badboy
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Originally posted by Slash27
As soon as "Grenada Online" is released I am sooooo outa here:t
Yeah!!!! same here, I'm still waiting for "Somalia Revisited Online"
As soon as it's released I'm outta here too!!!!
Have fun
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I’ve deliberately avoided responding to his posts despite being compelled to correct his many errors and inaccuracies
Badboy I know that feeling.
HiTech
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Originally posted by Widewing
More importantly, it's necessary to remember that this is a game, a hobby. This is not real life and getting one's life tied up into a knot over a flight model in a game indicates that one needs to re-evaluate their life's priorities.
My regards,
Widewing
This is true. However, isn't Crumpp heavily involved in the rebuild of Weisse Eins? Let's see, to restore a fighter aicraft that crashed, after combat, more than 60 years ago is hard enough. But they want to make it bleeding AIRWORTHY. It has been 60 years since any Fw-190 flew at all! Crummp even looks down on the 'new' Flugwerk 190's!
Then again, 5 brand new 262's have been built, so nothing seems impossible given enough dedication.
To come back to Widewing's remark, with all this in mind it seems obvious to me that the Fw-190 IS Crummps life's priority... And yes, he bordered on the manic, sadly. Still it wasn't nearly as bad as Kurfurst, I firmly believe that guy needed professional help...
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"And yes, he bordered on the manic, sadly."
I'd say we probably have that kind of people here still but they do not stick out because they represent the general opinion, at least for now.
But that is how a social community works. At least for us apes. BTW the jungle radio told me that humans call the ability to tolerate differences as a measure of a working democracy. What a load of BS. Want bananas my fellow hairy friends? :D
-C+
PS. Lock it already...
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Originally posted by Charge
"And yes, he bordered on the manic, sadly."
I'd say we probably have that kind of people here still but they do not stick out because they represent the general opinion, at least for now.
Well you might have a point. I though I was pretty extreme with my museum and airshow visits and with my 50 books on aviation (mostly bad ones, granted). Then I came to the wonderful world of AH :D
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Has a LW aircraft ever been modeled correctly at any time, in any game, ever in the whole entire history of the world?!? dammit!!
uber, heh. pretending to be a LW pilot in a video game can tweek your melon.
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I don't think so, nor has any other plane.
"pretending to be a LW pilot in a video game can tweek your melon."
Actually it works the other way around. It makes the "other people" think you are a NAZI or twisted some other way.
But that is prolly because somebody's gotta be a target for byte bullets or for mannerisms of unsure masculinity by people suffering from a "black/white syndrome".
I'm not making much sense am I? Don't worry, neither are you. :D
-C+
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See Rule #5, #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Crump made some worthy contributions to the boards in the form of data, despite his obvious bias, and weak interpretation. He could also be charming, but there was a darker side to his character, more than once I�ve heard him react to being shot down in the arena, with a torrent of abuse and profanity directed at the shooter. I remember thinking that the man was unstable, and after seeing so many of his threads deteriorate I�ve deliberately avoided responding to his posts despite being compelled to correct his many errors and inaccuracies.
been there also
never been threatned by anyone else after i shot him.
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Wait a moment, threatened? Physically?
There are some bad losers around, but this? :eek:
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Originally posted by Furious
Has a LW aircraft ever been modeled correctly at any time, in any game, ever in the whole entire history of the world?!? dammit!!
Personally, I always have believed if they were to be modeled accurately, they should be smoking holes in the ground. Thats the most accurate model of a Luftwaffe aircraft IMHO. :aok
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So, would you rather fly against holes in the ground or something that actually flys and presents some kind of challenge? Don't answer, I think you already did.
:rofl
"See Rule #4"
Tsk tsk, you are painting the next targets already Timf? :aok
-C+
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Originally posted by Bodhi
See Rule #4
Geez Bodhi, that wasn't very nice.
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I winged with Crumpp once. We took a 190 ride and had blast. Me with my aggressive nture of course mixed it with some P51's (I think), got caught and shot. I returned to the fray in a trusty Spit, and we both got away if I remember right.
Anyway, he was a very nice person to fly with, and I wish we'd done it more often. This dark nature story is unknown to me.
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Originally posted by hogenbor
Wait a moment, threatened? Physically?
There are some bad losers around, but this? :eek:
I never heard Crumpp threaten anyone, but I've had him get seriously cranky about being beat up in duels.
Crumpp doesn't handle losing well, be it a debate on the BBS or duels in the game. If you follow one of his threads, you'll witness his obsession of having to get the last word in, no matter what.
Despite these things and others that have been mentioned, Crumpp's undoing was specifically the result of not knowing when he had used up his allocation of good will. How many times did he think he could call Hitech a liar, either directly or by implication without consequence?
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Timofei
See Rule #4
Be very, very, very careful of who you pick for an enemy.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Be very, very, very careful of who you pick for an enemy.
You forgot the :mad: lol . Was that said in a Dirty Harry voice , or Darth Vader?
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Mr Crummp is getting alot out mileage out of you guys:D
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Originally posted by 38ruk
You forgot the :mad: lol . Was that said in a Dirty Harry voice , or Darth Vader?
I didn't forget.
Both.
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Yeah I heard DoK had magical powers and could shoot out level 10 fireballs!!! And when he puts on the wizard hat and boots.... forget about it:eek:
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lmfao Skuzzy you should give someone that power for 200 channel in the MA :t would be no one left
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Originally posted by Bronk
not to hijack but i always had a nagging question.
The US captured a KI 84 and was tested with us fuel and was markedly faster than with japanese fuel. Hence better fuel better performance.
Now Crump had stated that FW that was captured and tested ran worst with allied fuel than the fuel that LW. Now I cant understand this.
I am no aircraft mech but i have many years as a hobbyist auto mech. If i was told that the test fuel was of higher octane i would have made changes in timing carb setting and plugs and a few other settings.
My point being I think that the USAAF would have a more knowledgeable tech than me. So why was engine performance worst , because the KI 84 performed much better.
Something is not quite rite.
if anybody has an answer please post.
Bronk
Germans used synthetic fuels... allies didn't. The German engines were designed with synthetic fuel in mind.
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And is synthetic fuel better? Or worse?
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Originally posted by storch
I don't see why crumpp should have been banned. however if you take it in the context that hitech framed it, to paraphrase "it's MY house" and we all are guests here, then it's easy to see that it was a personal decision. the thing is that in my opinion we aren't guests at hitech's house as much as we are paying residents at hitech's apartment block. Hitech does have the right to renew which ever lease he wants or reject those he deems to be too much trouble. I say it was an unwise move because it appears to be a decision based on pettiness and emotion but it's his right to do so.
You know what? Crumpp was a griefer, and now, IMHO, you are too.
g00b
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Originally posted by SuperDud
Yeah I heard DoK had magical powers and could shoot out level 10 fireballs!!! And when he puts on the wizard hat and boots.... forget about it:eek:
Dude, I am so tame now compared to when I started running scenarios and had to get people sorted out before take-off solely through the power of vitriol. It was like herding gerbils with napalm.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
Yeah I heard DoK had magical powers and could shoot out level 10 fireballs!!! And when he puts on the wizard hat and boots.... forget about it:eek:
HARRRRR?!?
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Originally posted by Simaril
I am not a researcher, and dont have an engineering background. The calculations were beyind my ken, but....
Crummp was always sure he was right. When other engineers challenged him, he argued alone (is he REALLY the only engineer who can see the truth???) or changed the subject.
Crumpp was quick to point out the mistakes others made, but I dont recall him ever stepping up to say "I screwed that up...sorry." edit: in fairness, I didnt track the BBS looking for his posts tho...
Crumpp had an agenda -- he posted against US plane modeling, and for LW (esp 190).
Crummp did not have a graceful demeanor online, and did not show respect for others and their input.
Any one of these is common enough around here, but combining all four went a long way towards neutralizing any positive contribution. I honestly wonder how different his reception -- and his resulting frustration -- might have been if he treaded with respect.
I'm unaware of Crumpp ever actually countering a logical argument or acknowledging another point of view supported with facts. I'm certainly not qualified to comment on the AH modeling however I do know that the 190 would stall at over 300mph under certain conditions and that the luftwaffe forbade lower level combat {when possible}at one point due to pilot losses due to accelerated stalls. The 190 was purposely and inherrently unstable by design....it wasnt intended as a "dogfighter". German doctrine going all the way back to WW1 was very much "shoot & scoot"....so the british evolved the "turn fighters" and the germans the "energy fighters"....both sides designing planes to fit the doctrine.
Saying a 190 vs a spit is an even matchup doesnt mean the planes are similiar in specific performance....simply that in the hands of a good pilot the qualities even out. I always felt crumpps "data" was incomplete and biased....based on comments from other engineers here I also felt his grasp on engineering principles was a bit suspect as well:)
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In my frequent interviews with 190 pilots, I found 9 out of 10 think Crump should be banned.
Furious' first comment was dead on.
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Regarding the logical arguments; The issues (say technical or aerodynamic) discused here are often quite complicated. Therefore it is difficult to recognise unlogical argument without some knowledge.
gripen
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We lost Crumpp, and another frequent poster on the aircraft and vehicles sector, - Izzy.
It's been peaceful lately......makes one wonder.
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"I do know that the 190 would stall at over 300mph under certain conditions and that the luftwaffe forbade lower level combat {when possible}at one point due to pilot losses due to accelerated stalls. The 190 was purposely and inherrently unstable by design....it wasnt intended as a "dogfighter"
Holy smoke Batman, A BAIT?!? Gotta be, so much BS in two sentences. :rofl
"It's been peaceful lately......makes one wonder."
What does it make you wonder Angus? I'm curious. ;)
-C+
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No comprendo Charge?
It makes me wonder if those two were the source for so much discussions to go up in flames and whether their removal has changed the atmosphere on this BB.
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I knew you were going to say that.
I don't think you realize what is going on.
-C+
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Charge is right. I wasn't going to reply, but info on WW2 planes coming from Humble isn't reliable, based on his past "arguments" in these forums. No offense to Humble as a person but he's way way off on a lotta stuff, historically. [meaning, my beef is purely information-based]
Crumpp got banned. DEAL with it. Stop b****ing and moaning about how evil/retarded/stupid/misguided/elf-like/superhuman/metaphysical/fill-in-the-blank he was AFTER the fact, because he can't defend himself folks. He probably won't be back. So stop speakin ill of the dead, as it were.
Especially if you're Humble, and trying to educate us as to what you alone think happened in WW2 :) (sorry, had to add that jab, humble :) )
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Uhhh, Charge:
"I knew you were going to say that.
I don't think you realize what is going on."
If you are referring to me in that case, well, I'll have to re-read the whole thread. A dull search for a conspiracy theory that you should perhaps explain better?
And Humble? Well, he said this:
"I'm unaware of Crumpp ever actually countering a logical argument or acknowledging another point of view supported with facts"
Well...yes and no. I saw Crumpp slipping allright, but again, he posted quite a lot of pictures, graphs and documents that were truly good and authentic, while the interpretion is left and gives an opening for a debate.
In many many cases I disagreed with him (and so did most IMHO) while we were looking at the same data. That's life, - and liberty.
But in the last days of posting...it was all getting rather growly. Well, that's what I realized...
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Originally posted by Charge
I don't think you realize what is going on.
Could you please tell us what is going on?
gripen
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"Could you please tell us what is going on?"
It's actually quite funny that of all the people you ask that.
You tell me. What was your motivation to engage into arguments with Crumpp?
It seems that many people chose not to argue about anything with him because he was so biased and misinformed so why did you?
To ensure that we get the correct info, or just to beat him in a debate?
-C+
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Originally posted by Charge
You tell me. What was your motivation to engage into arguments with Crumpp?
Well, in most cases it was actually Mr. Crumpp who engaged. Most of the stuff I discused with him was technical and/or aerodynamic related and the pattern was nearly allways the same; he came up with some kind of confused theory on these issues. And generally I like to argue and no one forced Mr. Crumpp to argue with me.
But now, coud you please answer the question: What is going on?
gripen
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"Well, in most cases it was actually Mr. Crumpp who engaged."
Should I say "nonsense"?
My observation was that you were a perfect match. That is why you had those ridiculous multi paged "I have the last word" discussions. But you are still here and he is not. Probably because you have better conversational abilites, or maybe just less little dogs gnawing at your heels?
U get my drift?
:D
-C+
PS. Ask third time.
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You can certainly make your own observations but could you please now finaly answer the question:
What is going on? Yep I ask...
gripen
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Charge... better lay it off before you get banned ;)
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Originally posted by Charge
My observation was that you were a perfect match. That is why you had those ridiculous multi paged "I have the last word" discussions. But you are still here and he is not. Probably because you have better conversational abilites, or maybe just less little dogs gnawing at your heels?
Spot on!
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Hm... so should I be banned because I argued with Mr. Crumpp?
Is Mr. Charge under danger to be banned if he answers the question?
IMHO get real.
gripen
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This one has pretty much run its course. Let me bottomline it for you. He was asked to stop making derogatory/abusive remarks and ignored that request.
No amount of data any one person can provide will ever make it acceptable to be abusive towards other members of this board.
If you (not anyone in particular) chose to believe there were other reasons, then you are working from your own paranoia and I would ask you to contain that paranoia. Thank you.