Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wolfala on February 17, 2006, 04:58:47 PM
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New Anti-RPG System Demonstrated
http://www.edefenseonline.com
by Brendan P. Rivers
Feb. 14, 2006
A new active protection system designed to destroy rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) was tested successfully at the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology Energetic Materials Research and Test Center, near Socorro, NM, on Feb. 7.
(http://www.edefenseonline.com/article_images/02_14_2006_OM.jpg)
The Quick Kill system, a new device to protect combat vehicles from rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), was recently demonstrated. The 300-lb. system could eventually replace the 5,000 lbs. of slat armor that currently protect the US Army's Stryker vehicles (seen here).
US DoD
The system, called Quick Kill and developed by Raytheon (McKinney, TX), is a new hit-avoidance system, designed to protect combat vehicles from RPGs at close range. To detect and track incoming RPGs, it employs an active electronically scanned array (AESA) called that Cobra radar, derived from the Multi-Function Radio-Frequency (MF-RF) sensor that the company is developing for the US Army's Future Combat System (FCS) program (see "New Sensors for FCS Ground Vehicles"). The Cobra radar can detect and track several threats at once and provides targeting data (i.e., speed, trajectory, and intercept point) and cueing for a precision-launched weapon (about 20 inches long and 3.5 inches in diameter) to destroy the RPG in mid-flight with a focused-blast warhead. All of this – from detection to launch and defeat of the RPG – takes place "in less than the blink of an eye," according to Johnny Garrett, director of Raytheon Integrated Systems.
The precision-launched weapon employs a technique called "soft launch," whereby it launches vertically from the vehicle, pitches over, and is propelled by its rocket motor to the point of intercept with the RPG, at which point it fires its warhead. This method provides a combat vehicle with full hemispheric protection from a single system, rather than placing a number of them around the sides of the vehicle. It also avoids the concussion and stress that a more traditional launch method would put on the vehicle.
In addition, a vehicle equipped with the Quick Kill system would typically carry eight to 16 such rounds that could be launched in a salvo to counter multiple RPG attacks.
During the recent testing, an RPG was launched at close range – well within 50 m, Garrett said – to simulate an attack against a Stryker vehicle equipped with the Quick Kill system. The Cobra radar successfully detected, tracked, and cued the precision-launched weapon, which then launched and destroyed the incoming projectile. Further testing is planned for the April-May timeframe.
Up to this point, since August of last year, Raytheon has been developing the Quick Kill system using internal research and development (IRAD) funds, but Garrett said that the company anticipates a contract award this spring. This would most likely be an FCS-related award, he said, for further development of the system and fielding with the US Army's Stryker force under the FCS program's "spin-out" plan to get new technologies, including an active protection system for combat vehicles, to the current force more quickly (see "US Army FCS Spin-Out Plan Detailed"). According to Garrett, the Quick Kill system could be fieldable in a relatively short period of time, about 18 months or so.
The ability to field such a system rapidly is critical in order to deal with the threat posed by RPGs to US forces in such places as Iraq and Afghanistan, which Garrett called "an important problem and a gap that has to be closed." Indeed, RPGs have posed such a threat to Strykers in particular that the US Army was forced to provide them with slat armor – a cage-like series of metal bands that encircles the vehicle for added protection – but the armor also weighs down the Strykers, which are supposed to be fast and mobile. Garrett said that once soldiers become comfortable with the Quick Kill system and gain more confidence in it, the Army may eventually decide to remove the slat armor altogether and instead rely solely upon the Quick Kill system, which weighs under 300 lbs., as opposed to the approximately 5,000-lb. slat armor.
In addition to ground vehicles, Garrett said the Quick Kill system could also protect fixed sites and helicopters. He noted that the soft-launch technique would be particularly attractive to Army aviation. US and coalition helicopters have been targeted a number of times by insurgent forces in Iraq using RPGs (see "Choppers on the Crosshairs in Iraq" and "Targets of Opportunity") and came face to face with the RPG threat during combat in Afghanistan (see "Choppers in the Coils"). (http://www.edefenseonline.com/article_images/02_14_2006_OM.jpg)
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Thats awsome, will it take out ATGMs as well? They need a version that shoots twice once to get the RPG round and one the shooter.
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Yeah but how does it work when you fire a RPG or a shell from the vehicle that has that system on it?
"uh sir our RRG defense system keeps destroying our outbound ordinance"...lmao
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Do troops ever have to walk near those things? :O
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Sounds awesome, wouldnt want to be a trooper near it though.
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Slat armor doesn't run out of ammo.
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does it attack rock hurling jihadists too?
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but the real question is, will it beat up angry mobs of teenagers for you?
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
but the real question is, will it beat up angry mobs of teenagers for you?
Thats what the engine and treads are for.
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"watch out for that tank!"
"what tan.."
*crunch......spleeerg.........POP*
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Sounds like the Arena active defense system that has been available on the T-90 for a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_(active_countermeasures_system)
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if you pick up the body armour behind the silo on level 3, you can withstand a direct rocket hit no problem.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Sounds like the Arena active defense system that has been available on the T-90 for a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_(active_countermeasures_system)
Yea, reactive armor, Im pretty sure we've had this stuff for a while too
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How much does it cost?
How much does slat armour cost?
Case closed.
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A sword is cheaper than an M1A2 Abrams tank. Case closed. Right, cpxxx?
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You'll still need the armor. Difference is, and someone can correct me on this - the warhead is destroyed far enough away so that the destructive potential is greatly reduced. Such as setting a bomb off 10 feet away as opposed to 10 inches away.
Cube root scaleing - not as much energy is transfered. So the warhead is rendered inert by distance - the fragments are still a problem, which the armor would still be required to absorb.
Wolf
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I think they want something that looks sexier than slat armor. More Tom Clancy than the Beverly Hillbillies.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Yea, reactive armor, Im pretty sure we've had this stuff for a while too
Reactive armour is a passive defense made of explosives tiles which blows on contact with an RPG round, very old and originally created by Israelis.
Arena is an active defense system developed by Russians in the 90's - just like the one we're discussing here.
I'm surprised it took this long for USA to develop a similar system.
Originally posted by Woflala
You'll still need the armor. Difference is, and someone can correct me on this - the warhead is destroyed far enough away so that the destructive potential is greatly reduced. Such as setting a bomb off 10 feet away as opposed to 10 inches away.
RPG rounds can be either HE or HEAT, which of the HEAT is used against armoured targets and it doesn't use fragments to penetrate.
HEAT projectile creates a concentrated explosion towards the armour which becomes a hot flow of "plasma" that is supposed to cut through the armour like a knife through butter. The plasma jet loses it's power pretty quickly. In WWII they used the skirts to protect the actual armour layer - main idea was to trigger the projectile prematurely and in the empty space between the skirt and main armour the plasma jet would lose its penetration power. Nowadays you can't rely on the skirts anymore due to much more powerful warheads (and it's about impossible to effectively protect a vehicle entirely with skirts without losing great deal of mobility due to added size etc.).
The "new" system simply destroys the projectile before it can reach its target. Soldiers next to the explosions might not like it that much, however the AFV and troops right next to it will be safe. Armour is still needed against kinetic projectiles, artillery fire and bombs (shrapnels and other crap in general). You could penetrate many of the AFV's with old WWII era anti-tank rifles :D
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I think they want something that looks sexier than slat armor. More Tom Clancy than the Beverly Hillbillies.
I would have to go with the BH
Granny would have beat the snot out of Tom Clancy and Ellie May was dead sexy.
Excel
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Originally posted by Chairboy
A sword is cheaper than an M1A2 Abrams tank. Case closed. Right, cpxxx?
Not comparing like with like. If a sword could do the same job as an M1 Abrams then it could.
Sometimes you can throw too much technology at something when the simple answers work.
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In this article they are talking about employing as a replacement for slat amor. The problem with the slat armor is that it weighs 5,000 lbs. This new system weighs only 300 lbs. But which one taxes the supply chain more? How much ammo does it carry? How much will the ammo displace other carried supplies? How often does it malfunction? How high maintainence is it? I read that there were times in OIF when armored units at the forward edge of battle ran out of ammo for all but their carbines and pistols. There were times when they had to fight off dismounts with grenades, rifles and one example I can think of a tc was down to using his pistol.
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The real question is.. how much protection is afforded to the sensor array that detects the RPGs? My guess would be a few well placed bullets, frag explosion, or even smoke-screen or lots of air-borne dust will put the system off-line. Then with no slat armor.. well...
I'd rather have my defense be something not totally relying on electronics. Reactive armor and slat armor is passive and will work even when the power is out.