Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: kanttori on February 19, 2006, 07:33:18 AM

Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: kanttori on February 19, 2006, 07:33:18 AM
CAPTURING THE BASES

The houses in V-bases and in a-base towns are civilian buildings. Their destruction is no good for base capture reasons.

Instead you have to destroy all the entrenched tents nearby the map room. Note: Not the normal tents(=troops). Notice that you have to destroy both the dug-in and the tent. These object pairs are in groups of 4 and there are 3 groups. That means 24 "town objects" in total.

(http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/sf_town.jpg)

(http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/sf_vbase.jpg)
_____________________________

A SPECIAL V-BASE VIIPURI

Also notice that in V55 there is no map room in the normal place.. there is just one puffy ack.

The V55 map room is between the long park and the castle in Viipuri city, just on the NW corner of teh park.. on a market place. Those of you who have ever been to Viipuri will know the place as the "Round tower". ;)

(http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/sf_viipuri.jpg)

_____________________________

RADAR

Radar system is exceptional in this terrain. Most of the airfields and vehicle fields have several wooden "air surveillance towers" around them.

(http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/sf_radar.jpg)

(http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/sf_rtower.jpg)

The radar circles from these towers are set to 5 miles diameter and they are describing the visual perception.

Sector counters are set to 10 miles diameter from the radar towers and they are describing the auditory perception.

Base warning flash is set to about 3 miles diameter because of this special air surveillance system.
_____________________________

BOMBER AND FIGHTER HANGARS

There are any "normal" hangar buidings in the airfields. Karelia's hangars are plane dugouts or shelters:

(http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/sf_bhfh.jpg)

There are on the average 12 fighter shelters and 4 bomber shelters on the airfields. You must destroy them all if you want that any aircraft can not  take off from that field!
_____________________________

THE BACKWOODS AIRFIELDS

Here's the "common" airfield type. You can copy this bmp-map to your "HTC/Aces High II/maps" folder and use it as a clipboard map:

(http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/karelia_afcommon.bmp)

There are also two historical airfields now: A23 Suulajärvi and A84 Taipalsaari. They are made using the old aerial photos and airfield maps.

Next update which is coming out on March contains about 20 new historical airfields. The work is just now under process...  ;)

I post later the town and v-base clipboard maps here!
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Loddar on February 19, 2006, 07:58:46 AM
Impressive :O

Let's let that look to all maps in AH. :aok
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on February 19, 2006, 11:00:47 AM
Indeed.  The level of detail is absolutely amazing.  I've only just begun fiddling with the TE, and I cant imagine how many mind-numbing hours were spent getting all those details placed.  Two things are obvious about a map this detailed.

1.  It was a group effort.  Any one person would have gone mad long ago.

2.  It was a labor of love.  Incredible work and a big thank you to all of you who worked on it or are still working on it.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Grits on February 19, 2006, 02:09:14 PM
The map is absolutely stunning in its detail. Its also absolutely horrible for frame rate. Its even worse than Okinawa, which was the previous worst FR killer.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Shifty on February 19, 2006, 04:09:10 PM
Very cool map guys.:aok
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Krusty on February 19, 2006, 05:41:43 PM
Ahhhh... no WONDER!!!!

***THAT*** explains how to take a field... I was playing around and couldn't figure it out :P

Re: V55, is it feasible to capture this field at all? Do you have to flatten that entire city to take the field? How much ack is directly around that map room, in the city?

Oh, and any more AH2 maps like the one you just posted would be wonderful! I've saved it as you suggested, no doubt I will need to consult it often.

As a general comment: If there are 12 FH at a field (WOW!) you might want to reduce the lbs or ord it takes to kill one. Even the largest field in AH has only 7 FH, so say halve the lbs ord for this setup only. Just a thought.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: kanttori on February 19, 2006, 06:20:29 PM
We try to add more realism to the game with this terrain. Many fighter and bomber dugouts are closer to the real war in the Finnish-Russian front. It is more realistic that you must destroy many aircrafts or plane dugouts on the airfield as that you bomb down only 2-4 hangars and no-one can then take off from there...

The bombers and fighters were decentralized all around the field, not to the same place under the one or two big hangars. Also fuel tanks and ammo trucks are hidden here and there in the forestes around the backwoods airifield.

Those sheltered tents are as crew's wooden living dugouts which were typical in this front.

We can decrease the hangar's hardness, I inform Panzzer who is hosting this setup! :)
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: kanttori on February 19, 2006, 06:26:41 PM
We forgot the invisible runaway under the town object so landing there is always "Ditched". You must drive to the airfield and land there until we repair this to the update which is coming soon.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: FiLtH on February 19, 2006, 10:51:45 PM
This map is beautiful..its the first AH map Ive thought that was.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: bcee on February 19, 2006, 11:19:44 PM
a lot going on in this map...rats, showed up when it was empty of pple.

Try again tomorrow nite:confused:
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: B@tfinkV on February 19, 2006, 11:50:34 PM
please, PLEASE, PLEASE .......


....never change the AvA map again, seriously, this one is the only map i want to play on ever again. ever.

please.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Krusty on February 20, 2006, 12:28:10 AM
Hey Kanttori, if you're making bug fixes can I make a suggestion?

I think the tank trenches need to be wider, BUT, I'd also like to be able to climb out of them while in a tank. To go OVER them, as it were. Tanks in real life could climb right out of there entrenchments, they could cover very bumpy and steep terrain, which is why they have treads instead of wheels.

Perhaps making the inside of the tank trenches slope just enough to allow tanks to roll out of them, so that the trench is there to protect the tank from incoming shells, but not enough to totally trap the folks inside the trench.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Panzzer on February 20, 2006, 01:28:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
As a general comment: If there are 12 FH at a field (WOW!) you might want to reduce the lbs or ord it takes to kill one. Even the largest field in AH has only 7 FH, so say halve the lbs ord for this setup only. Just a thought.
That's a good point. I didn't realize that there are that many hangars on a field... I'll check the hardness of the hangars when I get around to it... How does half of the usual FH hardness sound?
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: B@tfinkV on February 20, 2006, 02:40:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Hey Kanttori, if you're making bug fixes can I make a suggestion?

I think the tank trenches need to be wider, BUT, I'd also like to be able to climb out of them while in a tank. To go OVER them, as it were. Tanks in real life could climb right out of there entrenchments, they could cover very bumpy and steep terrain, which is why they have treads instead of wheels.

Perhaps making the inside of the tank trenches slope just enough to allow tanks to roll out of them, so that the trench is there to protect the tank from incoming shells, but not enough to totally trap the folks inside the trench.



all they need is a ramp at some point wide enough for a tiger.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: TexMurphy on February 20, 2006, 03:58:11 AM
Its really nice to see the small details on this map...

One example is the city of Virpiruauiasu (what ever its called) near V55.

If you fly over it you will see that there is a rail road track in the town and that there is a bridge going over the railway...

This is what makes this map so amazing... the little little details...

Tex
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: FiLtH on February 20, 2006, 08:07:31 AM
I was thinking the same thing when I saw the number of hangers. I think trying it at 1/2norm is good. These will be down longer to correct?
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: TexMurphy on February 20, 2006, 09:04:17 AM
Ive got questions on two topics.

First one is on the new radar towers (the ones that are not on the fileds but placed alone).

When they are destroyed how long do they stay down and how are they repaired? Can one repair them by bringing supplies?

Second is on the fighter and bomber hangers.

Is it possible to have different type of planes owned by different hangers?

Say that hanger 1,2,3 own P40Bs and 4,5,6 own HurrieIIc. By downing hangars 4,5,6 one would disable the Hurries on that field.

Is it possible to do something like that where one can disable certain planes, within one cathegory?

Tex
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Panzzer on February 20, 2006, 09:16:27 AM
Filth, the down times are 60 minutes, so yes, they do stay down longer.
Quote
Originally posted by TexMurphy
First one is on the new radar towers (the ones that are not on the fileds but placed alone).

When they are destroyed how long do they stay down and how are they repaired? Can one repair them by bringing supplies?
Radar down times are also at 60 minutes (same as the hangars and other field objects). I think the supplies will work ... edited, see BlauK's post below. :)
Quote
Second is on the fighter and bomber hangers.

Is it possible to have different type of planes owned by different hangers?

Say that hanger 1,2,3 own P40Bs and 4,5,6 own HurrieIIc. By downing hangars 4,5,6 one would disable the Hurries on that field.

Is it possible to do something like that where one can disable certain planes, within one cathegory?
No, that isn't possible. If there is one FH up, all fighters are still available.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: BlauK on February 20, 2006, 09:32:23 AM
I think the supplies will affect the objects within one mile ... or something like that. Someone please verify :)

yup.. from the help file:
"The C-47, LVT-2, and M-3 have the capability to drop supplies on a field to repair the field or shorten the downtime.  These object supplies will repair all resupplyable objects in a one mile radius from the point where the supplies land."

So... one needs to drop the supplies nearby teh radar tower or bridge one wants to supply!
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Krusty on February 20, 2006, 11:26:33 AM
On normal terrain tiles, the supplies have to land on the concrete part of the field... How does this work now, that we have no concrete???
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: BlauK on February 20, 2006, 12:12:15 PM
Are you sure about this? Can't they be dropped from the air just on the air base area?

At least the GV supplies can be dropped anywhere.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on February 20, 2006, 12:40:48 PM
He's right.  Supplies dropped anywhere in the perimeter usually work.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Krusty on February 20, 2006, 12:52:43 PM
Well every time I've run M3's to resupply a field in MA the mantra has been "It has to land on the concrete, anywhere but it has to be on concrete".
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: kanttori on February 20, 2006, 01:18:03 PM
There are invisible concretes under the sand and grass fields. Just drop the supplies anywhere on the field's runaway area!
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: FiLtH on February 20, 2006, 05:03:06 PM
The day they can effect ENY by destroying hangers will add alot to the game. Say you kill a FH. The +ENY value would be applied. Suddenly a Tempest is unavailable. You kill 2 more FHs and now you cant get a spit9. Kill all the FHs , planes are still available, but only the lowest of the lows..the spit hurri 1s, the 202, the a6ms and P40Bs.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: kanttori on February 20, 2006, 06:20:20 PM
Here are temporary clipboard maps from the town and vbase to your "HTC/Aces High II/maps" folder:

(http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/karelia_town.bmp)

(http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/karelia_vbase.bmp)

I make better ones after update on the beginning of April. There are coming a Rearm pad to the V-base and "Landed succesfully area" to the town.

Don't land to town now, it is "ditched".
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: kanttori on February 20, 2006, 06:21:41 PM
Sorry FiLtH, that "separating" hangar system is not possible even if your idea is good!
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: hubsonfire on February 21, 2006, 09:12:15 PM
Working on some furniture in the garage, flying around the new terrain between coats of paint. ;)

The more I see on this map, the more amazed I am. This is absolutely incredible. I just got the map to finish DLing last night late (got disco'd 10 times during the download :( ). Hopefully get online shortly.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: mrshiver on February 22, 2006, 05:08:42 PM
WOW :O  You guys have outdone yourselves with this map.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Gianlupo on February 23, 2006, 05:28:57 AM
Kanttori, is the dashed yellow area in the GV base map still a "landed successfully" area?

EDIT

Quote
Originally posted by Batfink

....never change the AvA map again, seriously, this one is the only map i want to play on ever again. ever.


Bat, they're working on new maps like this one... you surely want to see them! :)[/i]
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: kanttori on February 23, 2006, 07:06:41 AM
Gianlupo, it is good place to land.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: BlauK on February 23, 2006, 07:53:03 AM
The dashed yellow line is not accurate... that is why it is dashed.

To be safe, land on the sand field between the VH:s. You should be able to get "landed succesfully" also at the map room and clearly inside of the dashed area.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Gianlupo on February 24, 2006, 02:26:16 AM
Rgr, thank you! :)
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: kanttori on February 24, 2006, 06:03:31 AM
We need your testing help. Problem is with the capturing of the Viipuri city V55. Please try it: deack the city and drop 20 troops there on the city area near maproom (see picture above). Tell us is it working or not!

Ps. Panzzer, can you lower the troops to this evening to 10 troops that we can test that. You can change the 1943 setup after Viipuri's capturing testes.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Charge on February 24, 2006, 08:04:09 AM
Could you remove the single trees standing in middle of runways? At least A9 and the other field near it has them.

It appers that on small airfields there is not one path free of some kind of obstacle. :confused:

-C+
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Krusty on February 24, 2006, 01:46:03 PM
Same with all terrains, the trees are randomly generated by the terrain tile type, and cannot be individually placed/moved. The reason they only show up at the ends of runways is because they "fill" the entire runway area, but when you put in an airfield tile on top, they are removed, that is removed until the tile ends (the end of the runway) then they pop back up again just like they had been before the tile was placed on the map.

There's really no way to remove them, aside from changing the way the terrain immediately around the field looks. Even then, that other terrain might have trees, too!
Title: 8 inch gun bugs
Post by: gear on February 28, 2006, 02:47:49 PM
The 8inchers round explode as soon as you fire.Only a few shots get thru to thier targets.:huh
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Bad31st on March 08, 2006, 02:37:04 AM
Is this map still available for download? It is one of the BEST maps I've seen in AH and would love to have it on file. I downloaded AHFINRUS.EXE from the Downloads section of the hitech site but that didn't look like the same map...
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: bcee on March 08, 2006, 04:43:10 AM
http://www.kesalesket.net/karelia/karelia.zip
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: Panzzer on March 08, 2006, 04:56:24 AM
You might want to wait a while before downloading, the map is currently being updated (bug fixes, frame rate issues etc). Or then download it again in a week or two.
Title: Special features of the Karelia
Post by: RAIDER14 on March 15, 2006, 09:02:30 PM
field layout  looks cool