Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Elyeh on February 19, 2006, 07:58:55 PM

Title: Eny
Post by: Elyeh on February 19, 2006, 07:58:55 PM
Just wondering if someone can explain when eny goes into effect and how is the eny value determined?

What has to be the ratio for it to be enabled? Is it an automated thing or does someone actually set it when the sides become unbalenced?
Title: Eny
Post by: hubsonfire on February 19, 2006, 09:09:47 PM
It's automated, and the formula used to calculate it was posted in the past, but since you can't search for ENY on this bbs, I'm not exactly sure how to find it.

I can say with certainty that there's a formula, the system is automatic, and there's a minimum number of people who have to be online for it to kick in. However, that's about all I can offer.
Title: Eny
Post by: Schatzi on February 20, 2006, 04:21:14 AM
Tried searching the help file and drew up a blank.

All i can add to the info hub gave you is: For ENY to be kicking in there need to be a minimum player number online, also one country has to have significantly more players then both other countries. If only one country is low in No. ENY-limit wont kick in for the other two.

ENY values for the planes are just set by HTC. They do that based on performance and usage in the arena IIRC.
Title: Eny
Post by: Elyeh on February 20, 2006, 08:46:03 AM
Thanks....
So for eny to be active 2 of the 3 have to outnumber the 3rd country.

So if country A and B are even , but country C has 100 more players, Country C does NOT get an Eny? Is this correct?

Im trying to be able to explain this to other people but it seems that there is no set formula for ENY.

Maybe HTC can give us the scoop on this:confused:

thanks
Title: Eny
Post by: hubsonfire on February 20, 2006, 08:59:11 AM
I had thought the formula requires a particular side to have a certain percentage of the total MA populace in flight in order to kick in, and not necessarily having to outnumber 2 countries. Schatzi may well be right, but I can't find anything on either the bbs (Thanks, Search-feature-that-prohibits-3-character-word-searches! You've once again foiled us!), or in the help file.

Hopefully, someone from HTC will pop in and clarify. I've tried all sorts of keywords, and still can't get a return on anything but ENY whines. :huh
Title: Eny
Post by: Elyeh on February 21, 2006, 12:43:46 AM
rgr that..... like I said I'm just looking for info on this
Title: Eny
Post by: Rolex on February 21, 2006, 01:16:47 AM
You might want to try using alternative search words. I would suggest 'balance' or 'formula' with 'hitech' as the user name.

This might be my imagination or a dream, but I recall a graph of the formula of eny vs. population differences. I also believe there was a minimum number (100?) as a trigger point?
Title: Eny
Post by: WMLute on February 21, 2006, 01:45:28 AM
here's the thread.  all 13 pages of it.

(dummies, eny is short for envy which u CAN search for....)

LINK (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126649&highlight=envy)
Title: Eny
Post by: hubsonfire on February 21, 2006, 10:29:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by WMLute
here's the thread.  all 13 pages of it.

(dummies, eny is short for envy which u CAN search for....)

LINK (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126649&highlight=envy)


 Maybe next time just offer the information without the mockery, ****head.

Have there not been any changes in the year and a half since that thread died? I thought the values had been adjusted at some point.
Title: Eny
Post by: hitech on February 21, 2006, 12:40:36 PM
Where we first began
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/hitech/currenteny.jpg)

After the adjustment
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/hitech/neweny.jpg)

HiTech
Title: Eny
Post by: Elyeh on February 21, 2006, 03:40:10 PM
Can you explain the graph? So is it when one county is way down the other 2 get the eny? Or does it have to be 2 out of 3?

Also how is eny value determined?  Sorry if its on the graph but I'm not sure how to read it.

I've heard so many differnt versions of eny works in the sim That I'd like the real answer.

Thanks
Title: Eny
Post by: SlapShot on February 21, 2006, 03:55:47 PM
Hope this helps ...

All charts are based on the smallest country having 100 players.

In addition we will be changing the minimum total players before the ENY becomes active from 140 to 200.


Quote
Originally posted by xHaMmeRx
HiTech

Just to see if I understand this correctly, does this mean ENY kicks in once a country has 35 more people than the smallest country?  

Hammer
netAces.org (http://www.netaces.org) - Tips, Tactics and More!


Quote
Originally posted by hitech
No xHammeRx: The numbers are just an example. It depends on the percentage wrather than numbers. I.E. take the player count in the small country , then divide your country by the smallest. I.E. int this example smallest is 100.

So if your country has 135 it would be 135/100.


HiTech


Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
It looks to me like the lower graph crosses  above the top graph at around 190/100.  So yeah, basically the punishment is relatively lighter until you have a 1.9:1 ratio, after which it becomes increasingly severe until it reaches the upper boundary.  

This should give some more leeway to marginal but not overwhelming numbers advantages, which I think really encompass most of the complaining we've seen.  It also puts a serious penalty on uberhordes.  Sunday nights will become relatively more difficult for Rooks, though I suspect it won't do anything more than slow the steamroll.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
It also doesn't kick in until there's at least a 40% or so disparity. As opposed to a 20% or so disparity under the old system, that is a big improvement in my opinion.

Zazen


Quote
Originally posted by peterg2
So, ENY will kick in when a country has 40% more players, when the total online is 200.

Ok, that will work fine if one has faith in the ENY concept. It doesn't seem to get people to switch sides though. We've seen over the past few weeks that it doesn't. The hordes will still up high ENY slowbies. And players who don't like the ENY system will still not like it.

I think what may help players feel better about the ENY system is a new programmer key command (like ctrl-i, for frame rates and memory usage) that would pop up the country numbers and the current ENY percent and ENY value. Then we as players could monitor the team strengths and current ENY value. (If we wanted to keep our ponies and 262's, we would fly them away from the front when we saw that we couldn't reup in them.)

If it looked like the game was approaching ENY time, I'm fairly sure guys would start thinking about changing sides. Maybe.

But, it's the after-the-fact implimentation of ENY that I think really riles the players up. All of a sudden, you try to up your favorite ride to defend a base, and up pops ENY. I wonder how many slammed keyboards have been a reaction to that.

If the players are given more "control" over how to even the teams, I'm pretty sure the guys will take more control. It's really no fun blowing away a country with half the numbers.

If a squad CO sees ENY approaching, they can tell their guys to switch. If guys log on after and don't see their buddies anywhere, they can see what country people are at by looking at the roster.

And if you're flying along in your favorite low ENY aircraft, and you hit the above proposed ENY key command and see ENY is now 15, you'll know it's time to protect your aircraft and run.


Quote
Originally posted by Shane
you're aware right-clicking on the clipboard map and left-clicking on country status will bring up the eny-limiter data?
Title: Eny
Post by: hitech on February 21, 2006, 03:59:15 PM

int arnaUpdateCountryBalance(arnaCOUNTRY_BALANCE * CountryBalance)
{
int BadGuyID;
arnaCOUNTRY_BALANCE NewBalance;
pcUSER_RECORD * pcUserRecord;
bgUSER_RECORD * bgUserRecord;
const arnaSETTINGS * Settings;
int Country;
double Least;
memset(&NewBalance,0,sizeof(arnaCOUNTRY_BALANCE));
Settings = arnaservGetSettings();

for(BadGuyID = udGetNextOnlineUserFd(-1);
BadGuyID >= 0;
BadGuyID = udGetNextOnlineUserFd(BadGuyID))
{
pcUserRecord = udGetpcUserRecord(BadGuyID);
bgUserRecord = udGetbgUserRecord(BadGuyID);

Country = bgUserRecord->UserInfo.Country;
++NewBalance.TotalPlayerCnt;
++NewBalance.PlayerCnt[Country];
if(pcUserRecord->Permisions & cmdCP_IN_FLIGHT)
{
++NewBalance.InFlightCnt[Country];
}
}

if(NewBalance.TotalPlayerCnt > 0 )
{
Least = 2.0;
for(Country=0;Country {

NewBalance.CountryPer[Country] = (double)NewBalance.PlayerCnt[Country] / (double)NewBalance.TotalPlayerCnt;
if(NewBalance.CountryPer[Country] < Least)
{
Least = NewBalance.CountryPer[Country];
}

}

if(Least != 0)
{
for(Country=0;Country {

NewBalance.MinEnyValue[Country] =
(NewBalance.CountryPer[Country] - (Least + Settings->BaseCountryPer)) * Settings->CountryBalanceScale * 100;
if(NewBalance.MinEnyValue[Country] < 0)
{
NewBalance.MinEnyValue[Country] = 0;
}
if(NewBalance.MinEnyValue[Country] > 49)
{
NewBalance.MinEnyValue[Country] = 49;
}
}
}
}
if(NewBalance.TotalPlayerCnt < Settings->MinBalanceTotal)
{
for(Country=0;Country {
NewBalance.MinEnyValue[Country] = 0;
}
}

*CountryBalance = NewBalance;

return 0;
}


Current Settings are

Settings->BaseCountryPer = 0.1;
Settings->CountryBalanceScale = 2.1
Settings->MinBalanceTotal = 200
Title: Eny
Post by: RedDg on February 21, 2006, 04:12:30 PM
Behold the Coad
Title: Eny
Post by: Donzo on February 21, 2006, 04:15:25 PM
Sweeeeeeeeeetttt!
Coad!!!!!
Title: Eny
Post by: Elyeh on February 25, 2006, 01:58:15 PM
Still dont get this eny... Last night Bish had 56, Knights and rooks had 75 &76......but this Bish had an eny for about 2 mins.....
Title: Eny
Post by: MadSquirrel on February 25, 2006, 02:40:18 PM
Yup.  LTAR noticed that too.  Must be that new math.

Or part of the "Constant updates and additions keep the game fresh." stuff of the past.  But it wasn't to long and didn't effect us very much.  I still think eny has a problem when one can't even up any bombers or Defensive Armor.  There needs to be exclusions.

My thoughts.

LTARsqrl  <>
Title: Eny
Post by: hubsonfire on February 25, 2006, 05:28:49 PM
Ask yourself this: overall, what beneficial effect would that (allowing the horde to have unrestricted heavy bombers and tanks) have on gameplay as a whole? What would be the detrimental effect of an ENY restriction that wasn't actually a restriction?
Title: Eny
Post by: Elyeh on February 25, 2006, 05:50:28 PM
Huh?

Why did the country with less players get an eny restriction?

makes no sense
Title: Eny
Post by: hubsonfire on February 25, 2006, 10:40:36 PM
FWIW, I'll believe the claim of ENY kicking in for the low numbered country when I see some sort of proof. Grizwart was screaming about ENY being a "bunch of f**king BS" tonight. At that time, knits had about 200 ppl on, rooks 180, and bish 120-130. He stated that the rooks had 80 more ppl on, and that the system was bs.

While this rant carried on for several minutes, the simple fact of the matter, in this case, was that ENY wasn't broken; he apparently misread the numbers. I suspect the same thing happened last night.
Title: Eny
Post by: MadSquirrel on February 26, 2006, 03:34:39 AM
I didn't say Unrestricted Bombers or Tanks.  As it is, they get none.  

Allow them something.  Even if it is Light or Medium buffs and Panzers.  Other side can up all the Tigers and Buff killers for little to no perks.  But it is at least it's a chance to defend.

As a Knight, I remember many times that the ENY wouldn't allow us Buffs or Flaks or Armor.

ENY has it's place, but it can get out of control when ENY is over 30.

As for the ENY being mis-read last night, a bunch of us must have mis-read it then.  Wasn't just one or two people.

LTARsqrl  <>
:confused:
Title: Eny
Post by: hubsonfire on February 26, 2006, 11:47:40 AM
Huge group log off to see if they could enable ENY, then log back in while you guys were all in p40bs? I'm not trying to say you're lying, just that I've seen and heard all sorts of claims of bugs, and things not working correctly, and seen many strange things myself. However, almost all turned out to be without any basis in fact, or there was no indication they'd happened at all (some were blatant lies), and many others weren't bugs, as such, so much as things for which the root causes weren't readily apparent.

Cheap perk rides don't necessarily mean an even fight. 20 panzers vs 1 tiger isn't much better than 20 panzers vs 1 panzers. If bombers are allowed, and GVs and fighters are restricted, you can pretty much count on the underdog not having any hangars, making the comparatively cheap perk rides a moot point.
Title: Eny
Post by: Waffle on February 26, 2006, 01:33:32 PM
I would've thought the nme would've kicked in by now....least a tad bit. :D

(http://www.dangreve.com/images/ss5.jpg)