Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Shifty on February 21, 2006, 11:26:15 PM
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Hey Storch.
We flew Axis tonight in FM2's , once squadtime was over MVJester and myself went back over to Allied. The performance of the Hurri II , and the FM2 are very close. The 109E and 110s were able to disengage if they didnt blow their E and get away from the Hurris.
Not being a big RAF guy I assumed the 20MM's on the HurriII would be the same as the SpitMkV. Those freakin hurriII guns are killer. If you graze something it goes down. I can see how that would be a constant pain in the rear. Although I really didnt notice as much while flying the FM2 , because I get shot down alot anyway. When I noticed was when I actually flew the HurricaneII. I couldn't believe all the kills I would get with just a few hits.
Now I see why there are so many of them flying right now.
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It is the same 20 mm you find on the Spit 5. Or the 8,14,16, Typh, Temp, P-38, and so on.
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Originally posted by Slash27
It is the same 20 mm you find on the Spit 5. Or the 8,14,16, Typh, Temp, P-38, and so on.
too bad it isn't the same 20 you find on any of the 109's :)
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As Slash said its the same 20mm guns but you got 4 of them instead of the 2 that you got on the spits.
The is actually quite robust and doesnt melt quite as easily as the 109.
I was acutally quite suppriced to see how many shots I had to land on a FM2 inorder for it to go down. I actually wondered if the plane gun damage was tuned down in this setting.
The 109 dies to a single snapshot burt. On the FM2 you actually have to land two or three bursts. Its a tough little bugger.
But yes you really HAVE TO make sure the Hurricane doesnt get his guns pointing on you.
Tex
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Originally posted by Slash27
It is the same 20 mm you find on the Spit 5. Or the 8,14,16, Typh, Temp, P-38, and so on.
I realize that there are only two on the spit while theres four on the hurriII.
Still the Hurri II seems much more leathel, taking far less hit to destroy a plane.
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Well when you pull the trigger you are sending 4 rounds each time out at the enemy a/c; unlike the others that only have 2 rounds going out bound. To me more rounds on target increases the chances of lethality in the shot.
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Originally posted by Shifty
I realize that there are only two on the spit while theres four on the hurriII.
Still the Hurri II seems much more leathel, taking far less hit to destroy a plane.
rate of fire maybe?
seems like the bullets leap outa the 2c wings at a pretty fast rate
the hurri2c makes for boring game play as to stay alive in any engage other than a one v one and that one in the hurri2c being less than good, you have to stay fast and high, bore & snore the other guy to death
to me .. though b&z may be historic correct - it does not equal fun - if I am doing it or on the lower rec end
OM just added the il2 and p40e to the allied side and the 109f to the axis
he stated that to remove the hurri2c would lopside to the axis as nothing could stand up to the 109f. I must disagree as I have had my arse handed to me many times by a good p40e pilot while I was in a 109f.
the sooner the hurri2c leaves this setup, the better
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Originally posted by Slash27
It is the same 20 mm you find on the Spit 5. Or the 8,14,16, Typh, Temp, P-38, and so on.
Actually the Tempest* got mark V instead of II like in the spits+ typhoon , and I'm not sure of the 38 but I think the american made hispano had another reference.
* early Tempest had mk II but the AH one got mkV
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P-40E PWNS!!
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yes shifty if the 110/109 driver plays smart and maintains his altitude he can disengage but has to remain out at about 1000m or so or he risks getting free laser surgery for his hemmoroids. if you lose significant alt advantage it's all over in anything other than the endangered list 1 v 1. all I've seen is droves of hurricanes and all with altitude. some guys were coming it at 20k. while it is true that two can play that game if a person has one hour to spend in the game taking 15 minutes to climb doesn't make sense. I wonder if some of the intelligent guys will post a combat performance comparisson about now. I'm sure it's so lopsided that perhaps the AvA staff will consider limiting the use of this way overmodelled ground attack bird in it's current iteration.
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Originally posted by Eagler
rate of fire maybe?
seems like the bullets leap outa the 2c wings at a pretty fast rate
the hurri2c makes for boring game play as to stay alive in any engage other than a one v one and that one in the hurri2c being less than good, you have to stay fast and high, bore & snore the other guy to death
to me .. though b&z may be historic correct - it does not equal fun - if I am doing it or on the lower rec end
OM just added the il2 and p40e to the allied side and the 109f to the axis
he stated that to remove the hurri2c would lopside to the axis as nothing could stand up to the 109f. I must disagree as I have had my arse handed to me many times by a good p40e pilot while I was in a 109f.
the sooner the hurri2c leaves this setup, the better
Maybe it is the rate of fire. I'm basing this on my aging eyesight, and reflexes. My gunnery is terrible, and getting worse not better. If I could spend money on lazic surgery , a new computer, and turn back time a bit I could shoot like I could 5 to 10 years ago. I don't get many hits usually so thats why I'm amazed how easy you can kill in the HurriII. Maybe it has something to do also with the fact that its a great turner but I don't spend near as much time blacked out as I do in a spit, or N1K2 , or zeke.
It's like AARP designed a plane for us old farts.:aok
I don't know how much the HurriII was used on the EF , but if OM doesn't pull it maybe he should limit it at least. . The same way the FM2 is. However if he pulls the HurriII, he should pull the FM2 as well. I'm going to the P-40E now that it's out . This is one of the reasons I've never really enjoyed the Finn/Russ , the Allied aircraft stable is everything but Russian. It's really come to light with the RPS not having anything Russian to put up in the early portion.
Just my opinon , but the RPS should be used on a larger theater of the war. If you want to run setups like Finn/Ruus , or the Med limit them to one week, and use the traditional setups.
I also think the RPS would be fun if you included all Axis, and all Allied planes in it. It would probably attract more people again. The numbers seem to really be down with this setup.
Still AvA Crew , and Finn guys, I think you've all done a great job with this. It just seems to not be quite as fun as the last setup.
:aok
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"but has to remain out at about 1000m"
Exactly, flying a Hisso bird I consider anything under 800yds worth the attempt.
Flying a 151/20 bird the same figure is 400-500yds but I have been shot down from distances of 600yds by a LW bird.
For example in Malta scenario I always ensured I had considerble advantage in either speed, height or angles to get outta the Hisso reach in time.
See the Furball's Malta film (was at DokGonzo's site). That is what I'm talking about. :)
-C+
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the russians received 2,952 Hurricanes mostly MkIIb and MkIV I'm not sure they even received any MkIIc as they were pressed for use in NAfrica at that time as the excellent ground attack platform that they were.
The hurricane was historically a phenomenal turner it could easily out turn both the spitfire and the 109 but it was slow and had a terrible climbrate. by the middle of 1942 it's days as a pure fighter were over and they served on delivering sterling pereformance as fighter/bombers.
There is now way such a draggy design could possibly retain E the way it does in AH, but then again it is allied. we can also delve on the hisso issue once again if we must.
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I'll say it again fly MkI against MkII . As long as you have equal e on merge, and avoid the ho you should be on the MkIIs six in 3 turns.
This is if the pilots are of equal skill.
Bronk
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Bronk, some of us are in JG type squads and prefer to play in LW stuff. I'm sure others don't mind flying flying the Hurri v Hurri arena. Others of us might find it a bit tiresome after about 1 engagement. If you don't mind I'll skip the set up until the 109G2/G6s arrive when we can have something that will compete with an early war ground attack platform.
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See Rule #4, #5
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Originally posted by HardRock
See Rule #4, #5
:lol :lol :lol
Bronk
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Originally posted by HardRock
See Rule #4, #5
HR, that comment about being a 'good little nazi', I take offense to it since I fly primarily Luftwaffe aircraft. You're essentially calling all Axis pilots Nazies which is uncalled for, perhaps something you didn't intend.
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See Rule #5
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I had the opportunity to go 1v1 with Yeager in his hurr2 and my hurr1 last night...
Just saying "the hurr1 flies rings around the hurr2" doesn't really describe the situation. Yeager was able to HO me many many times in a row with devastating damage, when I as valiantly trying to evade the HO. All it takes is 1 ping to lose oil (and the ability to aim) pilot, or a wing, in a HO with a hurr2. Hell I tried HOing him back, but 8x 303s suck for damage. The hurr2 soaks up a LOT of damage. By the time I had got 1 kill on him (with a fresh plane) I was down to 1/2 my total ammo count. Most of my rounds HIT, as well (not so much spraying).
If (rare case) I was able to get PAST the HO, the Hurr2 flies the same as the Hurr1. In fact, it flies better because the carb doesn't cut out in nose high situations, the engine is more powerful, and it can turn just about the same, so it really does out-class the hurr1.
Versus a P40B, the hurr1 seems to easily win -- in a turn fight, anyways. Yeager got a few shots off, a few pings were received, but I usually got the better of him when he was in P40B. With the uber Hurr2c there's no reason to fly the P40B at all. Perhaps the Hurr1 should be issued to both sides? (just thinking out loud here, feel free to agree/disagree)
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What I would disagree with..or rather point out...any disadvantage to either side is going to be short lived as the planes rotate.
So being outclassed for 2 weeks or whatever it is just isn't a big deal. It will happen to *both* sides at one point or the other. So for a short period you may have to fly at a disadvantage which is not a bad thing to learn.
And with the 109..you still can *command* the fight if you choose to do so.
The Hurri 2 cannons..yep..you don't want to feel the pain.
And TWO 109s will always take out one hurri..right?
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Hell I was just in a 109F with plenty of E and speed, coming in to help a friendly that had 2 hurr2s near him, one hurr2 pulled an immelman, and I angled in on him. He rolled instantly at the top of his immelman, practically stalled out, and pulled ANOTHER instant immelman and caught up to my 300mph+ 109F and shot me down from 400 yards instantly.
The hurr2 is BS no matter how you look at it.
99% of all planes in there on the bish team are hurr2s. I alone was flying P40B (landed a few kills) and I only saw 1 other player flying a p40 when I switched sides. No idea who it was, but he died fast (and how!).
The hurr2 is way outta hand.
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I agree in saying that the HurriIIC is a beast of an aircraft WRT it's guns.
Kill Stats for Sunday-Tuesday:
Hurri Mk IIC: 126
Bf 109E-4:78
61% kill adv HurriII
Hurri Mk IIC: 57
Bf 110C-4b: 38
60% kill adv HurriII
Hurri Mk IIC: 185
Hurri Mk I: 111
63% kill adv HurriII
Stats for Wednesday/Tuesday (adding Bf 109F-4)
Hurri Mk IIC: 29
Bf 109F-4: 52
64% kill adv Bf 109F-4
Perhaps the Bf 109F-4 is the equalizer?
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Now see that wasn't so bad. A whole 3 days of LW wine.
Although with the 109f a 64% kill advantage might not be enough for the LW pilots. Maybe a small LL shipment of Hurris 2 packaged with Russian cheese might help.
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the hurri is so lethat because it is very stable. i dont know why, but as a gun platform, both here and in real life, it was considered a very stable gun platform. i think it might be that, as the dispertion and steadiness of the aim is more noticable than on any other plane
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Originally posted by Pooface
the hurri is so lethat because it is very stable. i dont know why, but as a gun platform, both here and in real life, it was considered a very stable gun platform. i think it might be that, as the dispertion and steadiness of the aim is more noticable than on any other plane
That's nice. Now if my hand was steady we'd be in business. :) Cus it ain't got much of that 20mm stuff:)
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Originally posted by straffo
Actually the Tempest* got mark V instead of II like in the spits+ typhoon , and I'm not sure of the 38 but I think the american made hispano had another reference.
* early Tempest had mk II but the AH one got mkV
Same round though.
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Originally posted by straffo
Actually the Tempest* got mark V instead of II like in the spits+ typhoon , and I'm not sure of the 38 but I think the american made hispano had another reference.
* early Tempest had mk II but the AH one got mkV
IIRC the MkV was a little less prone to jams and had a higher ROF. the jamming is thankfully not modelled in AH so it becomes an issue with ROF only.
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So basically the whines have moved from the old spitV to the hurri.
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While the hurri is a wonderful plane, and does have some devastating firepower for a few seconds, it is not fast, does not climb well, and is hardpressed to win a fight with the brewster/FM2, is easily outturned by the mkI, and is just a pine box with 3-5 109s waiting overhead.
With regards to the stats, I had 5-10 kills in the first half hour that weren't from guns, but proxies from augering 109s missing their picks. While the hurri possesses an advantage in stats, I have to believe that a significant percentage of those are from the same pilot errors (augers, tree attacks) I witnessed repeatedly. It's been a while since I flew the early 109s, and perhaps they compress more easily now, and the loss of gondies on the F model doesn't help, but blaming the hurricane for everything bad that happens to the JGs is not painting an accurate picture of the situation.
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P40E is enabled?
woot, i know what im flying now.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
P40E is enabled?
woot, i know what im flying now.
Rgr that B@t, Never had much luck in the Hurri last night, ended up getting ganged a few times as I couldn't get outa dodge when I needed to.
Went up in the P40 E and it's a great plane, first time I've ever flown it, I actually prefer the guns on the 40 to the hurri to be honest.
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VS 109s and 190s there is no greater plane than the P40E.
what about the Pony or P47 you might ask....
i say you havnt flown the p40e if you do ask.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
VS 109s and 190s there is no greater plane than the P40E.
what about the Pony or P47 you might ask....
i say you havnt flown the p40e if you do ask.
Yeah..cus the P40E has wep.
Imagine to my surprise I turn wep on the P40B :)
My dad flew the P40E in China btw. He loved coming home with holes in it:)
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P-40E r teh uber!
PS: dont listen to HardRock, he is a noob. :)
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Originally posted by Slash27
It is the same 20 mm you find on the Spit 5. Or the 8,14,16, Typh, Temp, P-38, and so on.
Temp has upgraded hispanos. Not the same version.
And I don't care what you say, flying through a gaggle of ganging hurricanes with 4 hispanos each when they SHOULD have bb's.... it ain't cool. Sure, up close saddled up 12x303's will kill just the same, but a tiny snapshot won't do anything more than tickle you. The same can't be said for a IIC.
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Originally posted by wetrat
Temp has upgraded hispanos. Not the same version.
And I don't care what you say, flying through a gaggle of ganging hurricanes with 4 hispanos each when they SHOULD have bb's.... it ain't cool. Sure, up close saddled up 12x303's will kill just the same, but a tiny snapshot won't do anything more than tickle you. The same can't be said for a IIC.
that and the fact that you seem more used to clubbing baby seals in the MA. The AvA is short on seals, the most seal like are two guys that will go un-named but who's initials are mvjester and lwdwn and even they can put up a good fight in horde of red starred woobiecaningpursedragginglimp wristeddresswearingackhugging crossdressingmilkdrinkingbeer hatingcakeeatingpinkpantied allied players. I feel your pain. you did well to whine and depart for the MA.
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Originally posted by wetrat
Temp has upgraded hispanos. Not the same version.
Did the round actually ever change?
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Originally posted by Grits
P-40E r teh uber!
PS: dont listen to HardRock, he is a noob. :)
Noob huh? So I can't transfer 10,000 AW hours over? How about I carry the 1 drop the 4. Lessee..that would give me a noob skin with 4 holes in it.
Now I just got to patch them.
The wine seems the same..maybe more aged :)
That work? ;)
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P.S. Regarding the different hispano marks -- this is slightly off topic, so sue me.
The different hispanos DO have different hits. The fraction of difference is small enough, but notable. The MkV is stronger than the US M2/Hispano2.
Somebody did some hit tests against hangars, seeing how many rounds of every gun it takes to kill them, then dividing by the total rounds fired (something like that). Hispanos II and V had different numbers.
Scroll down to the 3rd post here:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171528
or copy and paste if that link is too long. It's interesting.
EDIT: I knew I was right, but I got the marks mixed up, the II is just a hair stronger than the V.
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Originally posted by Slash27
Did the round actually ever change?
No, but the Hispano Mk Vs in the Tempest have shorter barrels so the muzzle velocity was lower. Rate of fire was higher and weight was lower though. So a net improvement.
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Any idea how long that particular round saw service after the war?
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Originally posted by Slash27
Any idea how long that particular round saw service after the war?
I don't know how long it stayed in service as an aircraft weapon, no. There is a sniper rifle that uses it still as I understand.
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I bet that doesnt make a mess:D
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yup a south african 20mmx110mm single shot shoulder breaker
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(http://vk.nsu.ru/info/snipers/aerotek.jpg)
I read a write-up on it once that said because of the hydraulic-pneumatic dampening system in the stock and huge muzzle break, it has less perceived kick than a 12 gauge.
...I want one.
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indy007,
The gun in your photo/article clipping is not the one that uses the Hispano's 20x110 rounds. That is the sniper rifle that uses the MG151/20's 20x82 rounds.
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Originally posted by Karnak
indy007,
The gun in your photo/article clipping is not the one that uses the Hispano's 20x110 rounds. That is the sniper rifle that uses the MG151/20's 20x82 rounds.
ya the one the uses the 20mmx110mm has the rifle over the shooter's shoulder with shoulder pad protruding perpendicularly downward from the rifle, a semi shoulder mounted weapon. It's called the RT-20 and it's of Croat mfg. not south african.
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Originally posted by storch
ya the one the uses the 20mmx110mm has the rifle over the shooter's shoulder with shoulder pad protruding perpendicularly downward from the rifle, a semi shoulder mounted weapon. It's called the RT-20 and it's of Croat mfg. not south african.
You guys need to get laid more often.:aok And NO, switching to your left hand doesn't count.
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Originally posted by TheBug
You guys need to get laid more often.:aok And NO, switching to your left hand doesn't count.
how would you know? and I mean about either topic.
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Originally posted by storch
how would you know? and I mean about either topic.
Thankfully I haven't gone limp yet and still find women attractive, so I wouldn't know anything about that other topic. Are you a Trekkie too?
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Regarding the Guns and the Brewster... Oh heck. One side will always whine. 4x Hizookas, or a too fast Brewster.
just have fun and try to fight in the plane you're stuck with... And try to keep the sides balanced while you're at it! :)
edit: oops, sorry Bug, it was from another thread I stole a part of your quote from.. edited the quote out.
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Originally posted by TheBug
Thankfully I haven't gone limp yet and still find women attractive, so I wouldn't know anything about that other topic. Are you a Trekkie too?
theackbug's bumper sticker on his 1960's VW beetle reads "fishes wants me wimmins fears me" arrrrrrgh says theackbug.
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Originally posted by storch
theackbug's bumper sticker on his 1960's VW beetle reads "fishes wants me wimmins fears me" arrrrrrgh says theackbug.
Just quitted the arena after Bug shot me down in (or at least around) my own ack - and well after I had took off... Sorry Storch, no sympathy points for you, it wasn't anything I couldn't have overcome with better flying (or even less SA blindness). again, TheBug, good shot.
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Originally posted by Panzzer
Just quitted the arena after Bug shot me down in (or at least around) my own ack - and well after I had took off... Sorry Storch, no sympathy points for you, it wasn't anything I couldn't have overcome with better flying (or even less SA blindness). again, TheBug, good shot.
Hehe, you can't take Storch for face value, he actually has a deep affection for me. It's kinda like when you were 10 and in 5th grade(well 13 and in 5th grade for Storch), you always picked on the girls you liked the most.
Actually you can relate a lot of things about this game/forum to being 10 and in 5th grade....:)
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Actually was some great furballing between A9 and a10 tonight.
To everyone who came out!
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Originally posted by TheBug
Hehe, you can't take Storch for face value, he actually has a deep affection for me. It's kinda like when you were 10 and in 5th grade(well 13 and in 5th grade for Storch), you always picked on the girls you liked the most.
Actually you can relate a lot of things about this game/forum to being 10 and in 5th grade....:)
:rofl
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Originally posted by TheBug
Hehe, you can't take Storch for face value, he actually has a deep affection for me. It's kinda like when you were 10 and in 5th grade(well 13 and in 5th grade for Storch), you always picked on the girls you liked the most.
Actually you can relate a lot of things about this game/forum to being 10 and in 5th grade....:)
Oh snap!
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Originally posted by Panzzer
Just quitted the arena after Bug shot me down in (or at least around) my own ack - and well after I had took off... Sorry Storch, no sympathy points for you, it wasn't anything I couldn't have overcome with better flying (or even less SA blindness). again, TheBug, good shot.
except I killed it while running repeated circles in it's own ack. take it at face value bug.
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Originally posted by storch
except I killed it while running repeated circles in it's own ack. take it at face value bug.
A small price to pay for me to make you my marionette. :t
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Originally posted by TheBug
A small price to pay for me to make you my marionette. :t
color it any way you please ackbug
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Originally posted by storch
color it any way you please ackbug
Ahhh come here and give me a hug, , it will be ok...:)
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Originally posted by storch
except I killed it while running repeated circles in it's own ack. take it at face value bug.
I'll give you 100 to 1 odds that Bug has never switched sides just to frag someone with their own ack Storch (something you have done repeatedly). You would be well served to stop crying about ack huggers.