Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: hacksaw1 on February 26, 2006, 06:26:18 AM

Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: hacksaw1 on February 26, 2006, 06:26:18 AM
This may have been suggested before.

On US carriers there was a flag or light visible on the bridge to let all on the flight deck know that flight ops were in progress, or had ceased.

I thought that a Green and Red light could be added to the carrier bridge that would be visible from the spawn point on deck and aft of the carrier during landing to let the pilot know whether the carrier is steaming straight or whether it is turning.

Carrier steaming straight = Green Light, flight ops permitted
Carrier turning = Red Light (to mean take off-land at your own discretion)

This would warn pilots trying to take off that the carrier was turning. Otherwise it is hard to see from the plane that the carrier is turning.

Best Regards.

Cement
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: hitech on February 26, 2006, 09:42:38 AM
I like the idea. Btw I normaly just look back at the wake.

HiTech
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Saxman on February 26, 2006, 09:55:07 AM
How about an LSO on the fantail to assist with carrier landings? Like maybe a .approach or .landing command, and you get a guy on the fantail guiding you in with paddles. I thought that was a sweet feature of Aces of the Pacific, and the only time I ever remember seeing that in a PTO CFS.

With reduced visual resolution/acuity over real life it'd be hard to see him on the CV itself, but maybe pop it up in a corner of the screen as an overlay like the .target command (that's how AotP did it).

Vets probably wouldn't make much use of it, but I'm sure newer and less experienced pilots could find it useful learning to land on a CV.
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Pooface on February 26, 2006, 10:03:29 AM
well, we can see when the carrier is turning, but what happens to me sometimes is seeing the waypoints, and seeing that the carrier is about to turn, but i try to land it. on final, it starts turning, and it gets hard to stick with.

so maybe, it should go red when the carrier is about to turn, judging on the waypoint distance. so say the CV is 500 yrds from it's waypoint, the light comes on to warn pilotsd that it will turn shortly.

then i think it'd be a really cool idea
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Krusty on February 26, 2006, 11:57:21 AM
A light might be hard to see, especially depending on the visibility of the plane you're in.

How about a "woot-woot, woot-woot" type of horn, like the air raid syren, audiblie from the flight deck?
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Widewing on February 26, 2006, 12:40:49 PM
What I would like to see is a catapult option. All US fleet carriers had catapults for launching aircraft when the deck was full, or when there was insufficient wind over the deck.

I don't what this, but they also had bow arresting gear, enabling aircraft to land over the bow (bow towards the stern). To do so, the ship and to steam in reverse.

(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/ReverseEssex.jpg)

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: hacksaw1 on February 26, 2006, 01:54:19 PM
HiTech,

I haven't been able see the CV wake after I spawn on deck, so I try to watch the destroyers, but they don't seem to give me a clear indication of maneuvers. Also, when on final in a hog you can't hardly see the deck, much less the wake, so if the Task Force captain initiates a turn while you're on final, it's sometimes hard to judge. That was my take on the flight ops lights. To help keep you from crashing on TO, and give you the opportunity to go around if you have a bunch of kills to land.

Actually, like Saxman, I've thought an LSO down on the corner of the screen would be fun, but I think it would be a lot of coding, and as Sax mentioned, probably wouldn't be used much by vets.

Best Regards,

Cement
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Krusty on February 26, 2006, 07:40:13 PM
Actually, the carriers did not have a catapult system. They moved the planes to the back of the deck 1 at a time, getting them in place, then they rolled off the front half of the deck. The "catapult" was simply steaming full power into the wind.
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Saxman on February 26, 2006, 09:15:44 PM
American carriers early catapults at LEAST as early as 1942 (the first USMC Wildcats delivered to Guadalcanal were catapulted from a light carrier, the Independence, I think). The F4F and F4U certainly had hardpoints for catapult launch (not so sure about the F6F, SBD, TBD, SB2C or TBM). I'm pretty sure I've seen either photographs or written information showing catapults on the Essex-class carriers during the war. Certainly the light and escort carriers used them.

It may be the older Yorktown and Lexington-classes you're thinking of without them.
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Loddar on February 27, 2006, 02:07:53 AM
Yes, good idea, tell all enemy buffers that we turn our carrier. Best tell them
which new hdg we turn it too.

Good idea but not in rumblecrap MA
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: mussie on February 27, 2006, 02:25:47 AM
Quote
I like the idea. Btw I normaly just look back at the wake.

HiTech


What the.....?

:noid

Who The Hell Are You And What Did You Do With HTC





:p

J/K

Nice Idea hacksaw, Clean, Simple, Effective  

:aok
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: USHilDvl on February 27, 2006, 11:10:55 AM
I like it.  Simple and effective.

:aok
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: hubsonfire on February 27, 2006, 11:28:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Loddar
Yes, good idea, tell all enemy buffers that we turn our carrier. Best tell them
which new hdg we turn it too.

Good idea but not in rumblecrap MA


The wake already indicates that the fleet is turning, and which direction. Any bombers close enough to see a light on the stern of the carrier aren't going to miss anyway.

Constructive criticism helps develop ideas. Whines don't.
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Lusche on February 27, 2006, 11:38:06 AM
Regarding to catapults, I found this:

"In drawing up the preliminary design for USS Essex (CV-9), particular attention was directed at the size of both her flight and hangar decks. (...) Most of the first-line carriers of the pre-war years were equipped with flush deck catapults, but owing to the speed and size of these ships very little catapulting was done—except for experimental purposes.
With the advent of war, airplane weights began to go up as armor and armament got heavier; crew size aboard the planes also increased. By the war’s end in 1945, catapult launchings would become more common under these circumstances with some carrier commanding officers reporting that as much as 40 per cent of launchings were effected by the ships’ catapults."

Taken from this wikipedia article about the Essex class carriers. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_class_aircraft_carrier)
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Krusty on February 27, 2006, 05:36:04 PM
Indeed, I must have been thinking of the early ones.
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: F4UDOA on March 02, 2006, 05:49:56 PM
How about JATO units?

They had them in WW2, don't know how much they used them.
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Jester on March 02, 2006, 06:17:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Actually, the carriers did not have a catapult system. They moved the planes to the back of the deck 1 at a time, getting them in place, then they rolled off the front half of the deck. The "catapult" was simply steaming full power into the wind.


Actually they did - from the Yorktown Class CV-5 back.

In fact the Yorktown Class CV-5 carriers even had a catapult on the hangar deck and aircraft could be launched out the side of the ship at a 45 deg angle in an emergency! But it was rarely done.

All the CVE's had at least one cat. Only way to get those big TBF's off such a short deck.

:aok
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: frank3 on March 03, 2006, 07:49:15 AM
Got my vote :aok
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: cav58d on May 08, 2006, 12:49:41 PM
Cool idea...Hitech likes it too!  would be cool for next patch
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Simaril on May 08, 2006, 01:20:43 PM
Just FYI -- Taking off from a turning carrier isnt all that hard MOST of the time.

1) Drop flaps -- so when things go wrong you have lift even with a short run.

2) Full throttle; if you want to be fancy stomp on brake for a sec to build power then let go for quicker roll.

3) hit X to turn off auto-take off

4) use rudders to keep the plane centered as you roll out.

If you mess up, you're usually still on the deck so you can land. With flaps down, if you cant get the plane up well, you generally will be able to hit water softly enough to avoid a exploding.
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Toad on May 08, 2006, 01:54:34 PM
You're all kidding right?

Don't use auto takeoff and look at the CV island intially. Use rudder to keep the island at a constant distance. If you veer away or towards the island, correct with rudder because the CV is turning.

After you get rolling, lift the tail with forward stick as soon as you have sufficient airspeed. Steer straight down the deck with rudder.

You really NEED a light? Ya gotta be joking.

Oh, yeah.... IMO people who can't take off a turning CV are one of the main reasons it's so easy for bombers to sink them. When a CV sails a straight course it's a death sentence. Not that they are that hard to sink when turning either. Eggshell CV's.
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: cav58d on May 08, 2006, 04:36:49 PM
Toad...Re read the post before you...HIT X TO TURN "OFF" AUTO TAKE OFF....

And no, I dont think anyone needs a light to help them take off...But it would be cool to have...What do we get, 4 updates a year?  Not to mention Hitech said he likes this idea...Im gonna push it, because I dont care if it helps game play or is just eye candy...Itd be nice to add something new for once
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Stang on May 08, 2006, 05:03:22 PM
I don't think it's neccessary, but if it is worked in by HT, wait till all the ships are redone to AH2 standards.  In terms of eye candy the ships in AH are by far the most behind the times.  Japanese fleets and CV's would rock too.

Peral Harbor is this winter guys.

;)
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: cav58d on May 08, 2006, 05:19:53 PM
last winter too!
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: moneyguy on May 08, 2006, 05:46:39 PM
i usuallylook at my compass, still a cool idea though, i like it :aok
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Toad on May 08, 2006, 07:28:30 PM
I re-read it.

My opinion stands.

The only "the carrier is turning!" warning you need is already available by looking outside of the cockpit.

This is eye-candy at best; it's not like it's actually needed for any reason other than that.

Of course, if it encourages even more sailing in a straight line, it will help get the carriers sunk even faster. There is that bonus.
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Saxman on May 08, 2006, 08:15:10 PM
On the subject of of eye candy, I'd still like to see an LSO on the fantail.

Preferably a member of the Swedish Bikini Team. IN a bikini. :D
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Kermit de frog on May 08, 2006, 11:06:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
On the subject of of eye candy, I'd still like to see an LSO on the fantail.

Preferably a member of the Swedish Bikini Team. IN a bikini. :D



I hear pics of Stang's mother are floating around HTC's office.  Perhaps we could make better use of them and model a person after her.
:D
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: hacksaw1 on May 11, 2006, 02:34:48 PM
Quote
This is eye-candy at best; it's not like it's actually needed for any reason other than that.


Seems funny to me that a historical apparatus used on all US carrier decks is described as "eye-candy." Maybe the tiny useless propeller for the electric generator modeled on the 163, or the useless spinning jet turbines of the 262, or the useless spinning turbos of the P-38 are equally "eye-candy" but they don't even serve a conjectural utilitarian purpose other than that. At least historical lights on the con would provide some help to judge carrier disposition on final, or when taking off under attack and you are looking over your shoulder at incoming cons. And as a matter of historical record, planes did not takeoff or land when flight operations were secured, such as when the carrier was turning. But if you like to game the game, I can see why a historical light system wouldn't float your boat. C'est la Vie.

I guess when I'm around for 14,000 posts I'll get to say "you've got to be kidding" when someone suggests more immersive effects that would provide some measure of additional help in coping with the game.

By the way, regarding other comments above, Zeno's is showing a free video on FM-1 and TBF cat shots from a carrier in WWII.

Best regards.

Cement
Title: Flight Ops on Carriers: Green Light go - Red Light stop
Post by: Elfie on May 11, 2006, 02:58:25 PM
I dont think that dive bombing B-17's are any more *gamey* than taking off from a Carrier that ISNT sailing in a straight line. I would like to see the ability to spawn on the carrier deck ONLY when the Carrier is sailing in a straight line.