Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Fencer51 on March 01, 2006, 01:14:02 PM
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Dan/Guppy35,
Do you have any information on 602 Squadron Spits circa January thru July 1944? What roundels do they use on upper and lower wings, and any other squadron markings.
I saw a profile online that had what looks like a Scottish Lion on a shield badge.
Anything you have would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Fencer
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602 Spits ya say? Never heard of em :)
Actually I'm a big 602 fan as well. Thier Spits had the basic Spit camo scene on the V below with those Roundels and the bands of a home based Squadron. 602 carried those markings through the end of the war as they operated from England. Their XVIs had the same look.
Most carried the Lion's Rampant shield on the cowling. There is no firm answer but it is believed by some that one flight had yellow as the background for the Lion and one had white. There are some photos that seem light enough for it to have been white.
SO! Images in abundance to follow. First is the basic Spit camo scheme with roundels and bands for the 8/42-Late 44 time frame. These are the wing roundels as carried by all home based Spits including 602..
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141247468_spitcolors.jpg)
Now a bunch of profiles of 602 Spits IXs and XVIs. Top XVI is one I did. Second one is from "Glasgow's Own" a picture history of 602 Squadron. Note I did the white background, he went with yellow. Third is from Shores 2 TAF Vol II which I think you already have but it's Closterman's bird.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141247484_spitxvitb382tweaked.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141247453_spit16loz.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141247439_clostermanspit.jpg)
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More on the Lion. First is Max Sutherland standing next to the nose of a 602 IX with the badge over his shoulder. Next is something a guy sent me suggesting I go with yellow instead of white on my Spit XVI profile.
Next two are the yellow on mine, and then the nose of my XVI with the original way I did the Lion shield
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141248058_602rough.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141248091_602squadronlionrampantcrest.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141248070_lionramp.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141248154_spitxvitb382tweaked2.jpg)
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Ken Charney's D-Day Spit LFIX
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141249925_charney9.jpg)
602's crest with the Lion. This is what I did my original badge for the nose of my Spit XVI from. I'd suggest Yellow is the best bet however for a 1944 602 IX
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141249943_602lion.jpg)
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And finally the boys of 602 Squadron on a Spit LFIX in early 44. Note the squadron badge on the cowl. My first ever scenario GL spot was as CO of 602 in the Longbow Scenario. Needless to say I dove into 602 history with a vengeance and buried the guys in my group with it :)
My Spit IX was LO-T for +Tiff back then :)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141250223_602-squadron.jpg)
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Skittles and beer?
Good times... even if I was in a spitfire. :)
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Guppy, you sir are the man. Much appreciated and exactly what I needed.
Thanks! :aok
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Ok Pierre Clostermann's Spit MkIX LO-D circa June 1944. 602 Squadron RAF.
Ok just need to weather her and show some wear and tear.
Do I need to put yellow on the leading edge of the wing with red around the .303 gun ports?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/cloclo1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/cloclo2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/cloclo3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/bassetleader/Cloclo4.jpg)
Anyone see's anything wrong please let me know.
Krusty you can save the "they all look alike" I am not going to listen. :lol
Cheers
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Ok Pierre Clostermann's Spit MkIX LO-D circa June 1944. 602 Squadron RAF.
Ok just need to weather her and show some wear and tear.
Anyone see's anything wrong please let me know.
Cheers
Looks great to me:aok
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Yes to the yellow leading edge and red doped patches over the 303s.
Might want to put the black line that outlined the walkways on the wings as well. And for some reason the Lion Rampant badge looks just a tad on the large side.
Should be a great one to fly alongside the 602 Spit XVI that Kev did :)
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Guppy,
I find my Spitfire resources sorely lacking. Would you mind refering me to a book or two that would be a good addition to my research material? This is in regards to skinning, not technical performance.
I appreciate it.
Cheers
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Guppy,
I find my Spitfire resources sorely lacking. Would you mind refering me to a book or two that would be a good addition to my research material? This is in regards to skinning, not technical performance.
I appreciate it.
Cheers
Probably the Osprey Aces series would be a good start. There are seperate books for the Spit I/II, Spit V and Late Mark Spits all with the usual large profile section.
That or Guppy's Spitfire profile making service since I have templates now for all the Spits outside of the 21,22 and 24 so I can make a profile of just about any Spit you want fairly quicky :)
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Well.. I have the Osprey series, but I don't seem to have enough information as to the fine details of the spitfire.
For example.. What lines are you refering too above? :rofl
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Look on the three view of the Spit V I posted above. Note the black line on the wing that starts at the back of the wing near where the pilot would step up on to it and gos up the wing before taking a sharp turn and going down the wing out towards the roundel.
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Oh. :D
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If you can track this down it would help a lot. It's a little book but it covers a lot of info a Spit skin maker would want. Tough to find but sometimes shows up on E-Bay
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141666635_c_and_m.jpg)
Here's a page from inside that covers roundel size, type and placement.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1141666623_spitmarkings.jpg)
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Just checked http://www.abebooks.com
There is a copy and it's cheap. In fact it's a steal since this is hard to find.
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=632600057&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26y%3D0%26kn%3DCamouflage%2B%2526%2BMarkings%252C%2BSupermarine%2BSpitfire%26x%3D0
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There WAS a book available.. :aok
Stupid question time...
Are all areas of green camouflague the same on each Spitfire?
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Originally posted by Fencer51
There WAS a book available.. :aok
Stupid question time...
Are all areas of green camouflague the same on each Spitfire?
Early on they alternated so that there was an A scheme and a B scheme.
Essentially it was mirrored. They did away with that in the Spit I/II series though so that there was a standard camo scheme that was painted on each Spit.
The black and white drawing I posted shows the standard camo pattern. It was the same pattern for the desert camo too. You've got it on your 602 bird. Obviously the guy doing the spraying wasn't exact so that it would look slightly different but the guide they used was the same.
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Yeah I was sensing a pattern there when I kept noticing all the profiles and those pictures I could find of the wings all seemed the same..
(Uh oh.. KRUSTY IS RIGHT!! :noid )
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Yeah I was sensing a pattern there when I kept noticing all the profiles and those pictures I could find of the wings all seemed the same..
(Uh oh.. KRUSTY IS RIGHT!! :noid )
Okay, for 1, I only say that on planes that are 99% identical to a plane we already have, or something like that. I didn't say 1 thing here.
For 2, I realized a while back that the problem with skinning spits (and the reason I haven't skinned any myself) is that the RAF didn't like to vary its camo schemes, and that as a rule every plane was nearly identical to every other plane (the difference being the fuselage codes). I realize that. Most others realize that. Nobody's going to hold it against ya, simply because that's how the spits are.
Hey, as long as it looks good, my philosophy on spits is "why not? There's nothing else we can do".
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Early on they alternated so that there was an A scheme and a B scheme.
Essentially it was mirrored. They did away with that in the Spit I/II series though so that there was a standard camo scheme that was painted on each Spit.
The black and white drawing I posted shows the standard camo pattern. It was the same pattern for the desert camo too. You've got it on your 602 bird. Obviously the guy doing the spraying wasn't exact so that it would look slightly different but the guide they used was the same.
What to look for is some had non-standard camo layouts.
I.e. for some reason it was altered for example -
(http://www.cyberonic.com/~kreed/rcaf2.jpg)
Notice the demarcation line forward of the cockpit is not standard, probably to allow for the nose-art (BTW sent this one in).
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Agreed Kev. You can find those that have been repainted at the squadron level or at least touched up that don't follow the factory paint. But they came off the line painted the same way.
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Hey Guppy,
On page 203 of 2nd TAF Volume 2 do you see a squadron badge on the starbord side of this spit? Look at the enlargement of the pic where the aussies are pulling the bombs.
Almost done.
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Hey Guppy,
On page 203 of 2nd TAF Volume 2 do you see a squadron badge on the starbord side of this spit? Look at the enlargement of the pic where the aussies are pulling the bombs.
Almost done.
Can't tell from that photo but much to my surprise, in "Glasgow's Own" the photo history of 602, there was this image that isn't ID'd as Clostermann's bird but is clearly LO-D. No badge. Not seeing it on the right side of other 602 birds either.
This is pre-D-Day at Detling. You did hear that Clostermann passed away last week I take it?
On a side note. A bit disappointed in "Two Man Air Force" the book about Gentile and Godfrey. Looks like he slapped it together from all kinds of well known sources. No new images either. Bout halfway through so maybe it will change, but "Look of Eagles" tells the same story better.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/861_1143350095_lod.jpg)
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No I had not heard that about Clostermann. That's too darn bad. :(
I first read his book back when the Bantam edition came out in the 70's.
It's now held togather with tape and is on it's last legs. So I ordered a new hardback edition from Amazon.
I held off buying that Gentile and Godfrey book until I saw some reviews. Sorry that you are not enjoying it.
I did get Vol 1 of 2nd TAF :aok
Cheers,
Oh yeah thanks for the info on the spit :rofl. Also I think that's a different spit, the serial number is wrong, CloClos was MH586. Glasgows own huh.. hmm.
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Don't waste your time on Two Man Air Force. Not worth the paper it's printed on. I'm surprised it got past an editor its such a mess. Nothing new in it, all taken from other sources that I don't doubt you already have.
Still think the Spit posted is one of Clostermann's as he flew LO-D as a Spit V as well. More to the point the lion rampant isn't on the right side which seems to be consistant with other photos of 602 birds.
Gonna be adding 2 TAF volume 1 to the library as well :)