Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on March 03, 2006, 09:08:26 AM
-
Yikes!
1981 attack on Pope planned by Soviets: Report
Agence France-Presse
Rome, March 30, 2005|05:01 IST
New documents found in the files of the former East German intelligence services confirm the 1981 assassination attempt against Pope John Paul II was ordered by the Soviet KGB and assigned to Bulgarian agents, an Italian daily said on Wednesday.
The Corriere della Sera said that the documents found by the German government indicated that the KGB ordered Bulgarian colleagues to carry out the killing, leaving the East German service known as the Stasi to coordinate the operation and cover up the traces afterwards.
Bulgaria then handed the execution of the plot to Turkish extremists, including Mehmet Ali Agca, who pulled the trigger.
The daily said the documents had been handed over to Bulgaria and would be made available to the Italian parliamentary commission inquiring into the activities of formerly Communist eastern European regimes in Italy.
The newspaper said the documents consist mostly of letters from Stasi operatives to their Bulgarian counterparts seeking help in covering up traces after the attack and denying Bulgarian involvement.
Ali Agca, who is now in jail in Turkey, claimed after his arrest that the operation was under the control of the Bulgarian embassy in Rome. The Bulgarians have always insisted they were innocent and argued that Agca's story was part of an anti-communist plot by the Italian secret service and the CIA.
The paper said the documents back up the pope's own memories of the assassination attempt in May 1981 in his book "Memory and Identity: Conversations Between Millenniums," in which he said he was convinced that the attack was not planned or directed by Ali Agca.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1300033,00050003.htm
Another press account of it, with Italy panel backing up allegations:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/02/D8G3J3J00.html
-
Pope was just a minor accident, everyone knows that Evil Communists crucified Christ.
Please tell me any good reason for Soviet leadership to assasinate Pope.
BTW, Soviet press back in the 80s blamed Turkish/Moslim extremists and wished Pope to get well.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Pope was just a minor accident, everyone knows that Evil Communists crucified Christ.
Please tell me any good reason for Soviet leadership to assasinate Pope.
BTW, Soviet press back in the 80s blamed Turkish/Moslim extremists and wished Pope to get well.
Bulgaria then handed the execution of the plot to Turkish extremists, including Mehmet Ali Agca, who pulled the trigger.
The commission held that the pope was a danger to the Soviet bloc because of his support for the Solidarity labor movement in his native Poland. Solidarity was the first free trade union in communist eastern Europe.
Read the story, Boroda. :huh
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Pope was just a minor accident, everyone knows that Evil Communists crucified Christ.
Please tell me any good reason for Soviet leadership to assasinate Pope.
BTW, Soviet press back in the 80s blamed Turkish/Moslim extremists and wished Pope to get well.
Just the opposite, it seems that evil russian empire has been crucified by Christ thru Pope Woitila and his Poland ....
Btw, nothing will be done since Russia is now a so called allied. Same thing happened, and whats worst, is still happening for many nazi war criminals. We know where they are, many of them in germany, but judges are being stopped by politicians. Ah, we should hire Mossad/Tsahal for a while.
-
Originally posted by gatt
Btw, nothing will be done since Russia is now a so called allied. Same thing happened, and whats worst, is still happening for many nazi war criminals. We know where they are, many of them in germany, but judges are being stopped by politicians. Ah, we should hire Tsahal for a while.
Good point Gatt.
I just thought the story was interesting, and it could possibly verify yet again what Reagan said about the soviets being "The Evil Empire".
-
Originally posted by gatt
Just the opposite, it seems that evil russian empire has been crucified by Christ thru Pope Woitila and his Poland ....
Catholic Church is partially responsible for crisis in Poland in early-80s, but USSR didn't interfere there.
Originally posted by gatt
Btw, nothing will be done since Russia is now a so called allied. Same thing happened, and whats worst, is still happening for many nazi war criminals. We know where they are, many of them in germany, but judges are being stopped by politicians. Ah, we should hire Mossad/Tsahal for a while.
Last month British justice again tried to start a case against Ukrainian SS division (Galichina) criminals who live in UK, but - they are now Proud Fighters Against Communism and new idols of so-called Ukrainian "democracy", so they are immune to justice.
Do you live in Israel? A story: we have a very popular national newspaper, wnd on June, 22nd, it published an article by their Jewish journalist, who said that USSR had to surrender to Hitler, just to get rid of Evil Soviet Regime (tm). I wonder what Israely authorities could say on that interesting democratic and progressive point of view.
-
godless commies.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Catholic Church is partially responsible for crisis in Poland in early-80s, but USSR didn't interfere there.
Had it happened some years before it could have ended with a bloodbath. The weak Russia was not able to do anything with the all western countries and the Pope strongly supporting Solidarnosch (sp?).
Do you live in Israel? A story: we have a very popular national newspaper, wnd on June, 22nd, it published an article by their Jewish journalist, who said that USSR had to surrender to Hitler, just to get rid of Evil Soviet Regime (tm). I wonder what Israely authorities could say on that interesting democratic and progressive point of view.
No, Im italian but we still have 10-20.000 civilians shot in the back/head, killed by (living) german officers, still waiting for justice.
About you last sentence: the vatican, during 1943, helped german troops since they didnt know what was worst: the german or the evil communists pushing on the eastern borders of italy. Niccolò Macchiavelli (Florence 1469-1527) was indeed right about his "ragion di stato" (i.e.: political realism) ...
-
boroda can't read those communists are too busy swimming in vodka to learn to read.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
godless commies.
lazs
They were so godless that they had no pr0n industry or gamboling joints….unlike some other western ‘socialist’ nation.
(btw On 4th I'm going shooting at Dixon.....should be around there at ~1100)
-
"Kill a Commie for your Mommie"
-------- George Carlin
-
russian... I am sure you know that as soon as they got here or.... after the fall of communism.... the russians took to vice like ducks to water.
lazs
-
Laz.. it's how the system has always worked in Russia... bribes and kickbacks, payoffs; all part of the business of government and social order in the former soviet union. For them, it's not even noteworthy.. it's just how it 'is'. There, yah just hand a cop your papers and a bribe even for a routine traffic stop. Here, that's a trip to jail.. there, it's how you stay outta jail.
Our system has gotta be exceedingly strange to them.. a whole different set of 'rules'. Culture shock, to say the least.
-
well.... they do seem to be extremely fast learners on the whole crime thing.
lazs
-
They don't have the same social conditioning to 'right & wrong' we grew up with.. they truly think some of our concepts of 'fair' are outright hilarious.
-
Russia is your ally.
Russia is your friend.
Now...if we can just wrap up these deals on the bridge and battleship I`m selling...................... .........................
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
Laz.. it's how the system has always worked in Russia... bribes and kickbacks, payoffs; all part of the business of government and social order in the former soviet union. For them, it's not even noteworthy.. it's just how it 'is'. There, yah just hand a cop your papers and a bribe even for a routine traffic stop. Here, that's a trip to jail.. there, it's how you stay outta jail.
Our system has gotta be exceedingly strange to them.. a whole different set of 'rules'. Culture shock, to say the least.
I love this authoritative voice of yours…. It might sound very authentic to person ignorant of Russia, but to me it sounds like a WAG. (Wild as% guess)
-
"Catholic Church is partially responsible for crisis in Poland in early-80s, but USSR didn't interfere there."
We need a calender of your best posts. That ones a keeper.
The USSR feared the Catholic Church (and any other religion), as it did any institution that it could not control directly, like the press, and television. It was about loyalty to the state, and anything that subverted that, was a threat. Cant have folks listening to what the opinion of the Pope is on something over what the Central Commitees policy is, who knows where that might lead? :confused:
As far as not interfering, thats too funny, since the Warsaw Pact got their marching orders from the Kremlin.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
They don't have the same social conditioning to 'right & wrong' we grew up with.. they truly think some of our concepts of 'fair' are outright hilarious.
Even in the US, "fair" is nothing but something most people pay lip service to. If someone thinks they can earn a penny grinding another person into the dust they'd do it. As long as the letter of the law isn't violated, its "fair".
-
I love this authoritative voice of yours…. It might sound very authentic to person ignorant of Russia, but to me it sounds like a WAG. (Wild as% guess)
Weird, I witnessed this thing first hand several times in soviet russia and even after that. Hangtime has it right on.
-
unbelievable! nuke those b******* today!
uuups, as far as i know no pope was killed,
sorry!!
;)
-
the news said the those commies were mad cuase the pope was not supporting them so the soviets...
-
urchin.... most people I know belive in making a fair profit and allmost everyone I know will help people who deserve it or even appear to deserve it.. Americans are constanly scammed by bogus charities.
I trust my fellow man a lot more than I trust government... you and the commies seem to feel the oppossite.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Russian
I love this authoritative voice of yours…. It might sound very authentic to person ignorant of Russia, but to me it sounds like a WAG. (Wild as% guess)
Russian.. you are correct to a point. It's an opinion, but not a WAG. More of a reasoned observation based on reading, listening and talking to russians now living here and to others (admittedly biased) that have been there, lived there; left there.. and that's my impression. If it's wrong; fill me in... my minds not closed.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
urchin.... most people I know belive in making a fair profit and allmost everyone I know will help people who deserve it or even appear to deserve it.. Americans are constanly scammed by bogus charities.
I trust my fellow man a lot more than I trust government... you and the commies seem to feel the oppossite.
lazs
And who is scamming them, oh enlightened one?
The Nigerians aren't that successful.
-
Originally posted by Boroda
Pope was just a minor accident, everyone knows that Evil Communists crucified Christ.
Please tell me any good reason for Soviet leadership to assasinate Pope.
BTW, Soviet press back in the 80s blamed Turkish/Moslim extremists and wished Pope to get well.
And Chernobyle was just a minor accident?
-
Originally posted by Boroda
BTW, Soviet press back in the 80s blamed Turkish/Moslim extremists and wished Pope to get well.
What were they going to print?
"Damn, we didn't kill you but we hope you get well enough so we can try again."
More of this story will air, without a doubt... I'm not sure I completely trust the story yet, but having Russia encourage, or even plan, the death of a Pope that was a staunch opponent vocally and politically of Communism is not far fetched.
-
Originally posted by Dago
And Chernobyle was just a minor accident?
Yes, only 3 people died.
-
they say that from orbit the place looks like green freckles on a redhead at night.
... all those radioactive cows...
-
Originally posted by mora
Yes, only 3 people died.
The accident destroyed the Chernobyl-4 reactor and killed 30 people, including 28 from radiation exposure. A further 209 on site and involved with the clean-up were treated for acute radiation poisoning and among these, 134 cases were confirmed (all of whom apparently recovered). Nevertheless 19 of these subsequently died from effects attributable to the accident.
Link (http://www.uic.com.au/nip22.htm)
-
And nobody knows how many millions will get cancer as a result of the fallout that spread all over europe.
-
Originally posted by Squire
"Catholic Church is partially responsible for crisis in Poland in early-80s, but USSR didn't interfere there."
We need a calender of your best posts. That ones a keeper.
The USSR feared the Catholic Church (and any other religion), as it did any institution that it could not control directly, like the press, and television. It was about loyalty to the state, and anything that subverted that, was a threat. Cant have folks listening to what the opinion of the Pope is on something over what the Central Commitees policy is, who knows where that might lead? :confused:
Even Stalin cooperated with Orthodox Church since the War.
Catholic Church in Poland wasn't destroyed even closely to the state of disaster in USSR before the War.
Churches became centers of "opposition" in Poland in late-70s. It is a fact.
Originally posted by Squire
As far as not interfering, thats too funny, since the Warsaw Pact got their marching orders from the Kremlin.
Interesting view. It wasn't so. It's hard for you to imagine the level of discussion between the sides in Warsaw Treaty. At least it didn't have that beautiful statement in it's regulations like NATO has, about US interests and involvement. This part of NATO documents is unprecedented, it's like Article 6 in Soviet Constitution of 1977.
Why not find some literature translated from Russian about Warsaw Treaty instead of repeating things like that? Or there is no "demand" for truth? :rolleyes: Or maybe you simply have been told that there is no such demand?
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
They don't have the same social conditioning to 'right & wrong' we grew up with.. they truly think some of our concepts of 'fair' are outright hilarious.
We don't have the samesocial conditioning to 'right & wrong' you grew up with.
Some definitions of "fairness" that you use are absolutely alien to us.
We are different and we want to stay different.
We live on inner laws, concepts that we feel, and we don't care much about written laws. It may be called a part of "social contract" here. "Strictness of Russian laws is compensated by the fact that they are not supposed to be followed". See above about listening to Western propaganda radio. Everyone did it and noone cared.
Such attitude is one of the sources of our disasters, but I don't want to live in a society that mechanically follows the law. Fun for a Russian - death for a German. (when that proverb appered - word "nemets" meant not only Germans but all foreigners).
-
urchin.. Most everyone I know wants to treat people fairly and be treated fairly.... every business I know of that isn't run by or in cahoots with the government treats people fairly.
Any business that the government has anthing to do with is beyond corrupt with no moral compass.... you seem to want more of this.... socialism...
All socialist programs are rife with corruption and waste and give people very little for their money.
lazs
-
Its fact Police forces and governments take bribes in all countries. this is how what we call the human race was spawned.
love how you guys point the finger there though, as if your area of the planet is any better.
there is so much small time 'power' to be grabbed by everyone is so many little ways that the human race has become hyper-materialistic and totaly poker faced about it. the fate of our spieces is dependant on the individual's soul and how it rests on departure from this madness.
-
Isn't there a spy novel with this exact plotline? Seems like I've read this before....
culero
-
Originally posted by Boroda
We don't have the samesocial conditioning to 'right & wrong' you grew up with.
Some definitions of "fairness" that you use are absolutely alien to us.
We are different and we want to stay different.
We live on inner laws, concepts that we feel, and we don't care much about written laws. It may be called a part of "social contract" here. "Strictness of Russian laws is compensated by the fact that they are not supposed to be followed". See above about listening to Western propaganda radio. Everyone did it and noone cared.
Such attitude is one of the sources of our disasters, but I don't want to live in a society that mechanically follows the law. Fun for a Russian - death for a German. (when that proverb appered - word "nemets" meant not only Germans but all foreigners).
We're quite aware that you are 'different' and wanna stay that way.
Boroda, nothin would cheer me up more on a monday than to hear your confused and paranoid land fulla nutball commies without a cause dove back into it's own 1950's era bellybutton and dissapeared forthwith.