Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JBA on March 07, 2006, 01:09:24 PM
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html?cnn=yes
The preponderance of evidence is by far the most detailed and damning condemnation that Bonds, formerly a sleek five-tool player, built himself into a hulking, record-setting home run hitter at an advanced baseball age with a cornucopia of elaborate, illegally-administered chemicals.
Through 1998, for instance, when he turned 34, Bonds averaged one home run every 16.1 at bats. Since then -- what the authors identify as the start of his doping regimen -- Bonds has hit home runs nearly twice as frequently (one every 8.5 at bats).
In 100 days, Bonds packed on 15 pounds of muscle, and at age 35 hit home runs at the best rate of his career, once every 10.4 at bats. But he also grew too big, too fast.
Bonds as a menacing boor, a tax cheat and an adulterer given to (probably because of the rampant steroid use) sexual dysfunction, hair loss and wild mood swings that included periods of rage. The authors report that Bonds gave Bell, with whom he continued his affair after his second marriage in January 1998, $80,000 in cash in 2001 from memorabilia income not reported to the IRS.
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And some will argue that steroids don't help you hit a ball.
I hope he and all the others are band for life. and not allowed into the hall.
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Originally posted by JBA
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html?cnn=yes
The preponderance of evidence is by far the most detailed and damning condemnation that Bonds, formerly a sleek five-tool player, built himself into a hulking, record-setting home run hitter at an advanced baseball age with a cornucopia of elaborate, illegally-administered chemicals.
Through 1998, for instance, when he turned 34, Bonds averaged one home run every 16.1 at bats. Since then -- what the authors identify as the start of his doping regimen -- Bonds has hit home runs nearly twice as frequently (one every 8.5 at bats).
In 100 days, Bonds packed on 15 pounds of muscle, and at age 35 hit home runs at the best rate of his career, once every 10.4 at bats. But he also grew too big, too fast.
Bonds as a menacing boor, a tax cheat and an adulterer given to (probably because of the rampant steroid use) sexual dysfunction, hair loss and wild mood swings that included periods of rage. The authors report that Bonds gave Bell, with whom he continued his affair after his second marriage in January 1998, $80,000 in cash in 2001 from memorabilia income not reported to the IRS.
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And some will argue that steroids don't help you hit a ball.
I hope he and all the others are band for life. and not allowed into the hall.
I got an even better idea..... More steriods, steriods for them all. Maybe if every baseball player was forced to take them, the sport would not be so lame and boring.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I got an even better idea..... More steriods, steriods for them all. Maybe if every baseball player was forced to take them, the sport would not be so lame and boring.
Winner! :aok
I have just two words for Bonds.
Lyle Alzado.
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Say it ain't so Barry!
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I got an even better idea..... More steriods, steriods for them all. Maybe if every baseball player was forced to take them, the sport would not be so lame and boring.
Agreed... and the catcher for every team must be a Mr. Olympia contestant, and allowed to tackle people. I'd watch that. Oh, and when a pitcher plunks the guy at bat, he should be allowed to give him a swift kick in the nuts. That'd keep the pitchers payin attention :aok
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Originally posted by wetrat
Agreed... and the catcher for every team must be a Mr. Olympia contestant, and allowed to tackle people. I'd watch that. Oh, and when a pitcher plunks the guy at bat, he should be allowed to give him a swift kick in the nuts. That'd keep the pitchers payin attention :aok
The ball should randomly explode too!!
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You know in the original rules of "base" a runner was thrown out by hitting him with the ball as he ran.......... might be a case older is better..
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He was "exposed" after leaving the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Karaya
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Originally posted by wetrat
Oh, and when a pitcher plunks the guy at bat, he should be allowed to give him a swift kick in the nuts. That'd keep the pitchers payin attention :aok
Yeah and a voice should boom over the loud speaker:
HEAD SHOT
And then in mortal combat style a pedistal rises and carries the pitcher and the batter into the air where the fight to the death insues.
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Like this really was a suprise.
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"was stacking 20 different steroids at one time"
Yeah, some claim (waves to MiniD) that steroids have no effect on your baseball swing. :rofl
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I don't see how steroids would improve your ability to track the ball and time your swing, but it the extra power that swing punched sure would knock the ball a lot further, I would think.
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Originally posted by SOB
I don't see how steroids would improve your ability to track the ball and time your swing, but it the extra power that swing punched sure would knock the ball a lot further, I would think.
He'd played plenty of ball before, I'm sure his eye/hand coordination was quite good. Most folks get to the Majors by acquiring this needed asset. Only a handful make it into the record books because AFTER contact, the ball goes bye-bye. Thats where steriods help.
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I'd have to agree, as that's what I just said.
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Originally posted by SOB
I'd have to agree, as that's what I just said.
Oh, okay.:) Guess I was automatically reacting to your past, typical "falling-over-ones-self-to-defend-my-brokeback-buddy-MiniD" replies. :D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Thats where steriods help.
A juiced ball and shorter outfield fences didn't hurt either.
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The biggest impact steroids will have for a baseball player is that it keeps the "dog days" of a 162 game season from occuring. Players stay at midseason form through August and September. Recovery time from injuries also shortens significantly.
It is a shame, though. Bonds was a lock for the Hall of Fame before he started in 1998 with the roids. He was a jerk and prima donna to be sure, but he was still a great player. Too bad greed and vanity got in the way.
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Being stronger = greater bat speed, which not only puts more energy to the ball yeilding longer hits, it delays the decision time to commit to the swing.
With more time to see the ball before commiting to swing, a batter should have a better hitting eye and therefore, a better on base percentage.
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Stronger may not = greater bat speed. If that were so we'd see alot more NFL linemen types hitting dingers.
No doubt the roids help in increasing the ability to work out, recover and stay in peak condition.
I just don't have a problem with professionals doing whatever it takes to be the best. Let them ruin their lives while they hit 500 foot bombs. Why is it an issue? Do you doubt for a second that Babe Ruth wouldn't have juiced if he could have? I'd bet Cobb would have jumped at the chance to gain an edge.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Stronger may not = greater bat speed. If that were so we'd see alot more NFL linemen types hitting dingers.
No doubt the roids help in increasing the ability to work out, recover and stay in peak condition.
I just don't have a problem with professionals doing whatever it takes to be the best. Let them ruin their lives while they hit 500 foot bombs. Why is it an issue? Do you doubt for a second that Babe Ruth wouldn't have juiced if he could have? I'd bet Cobb would have jumped at the chance to gain an edge.
Baseball, maybe more than any other sport is about statistics. The next guy to get near .400 will be compared to Ted Williams. The next guy to get a 45 game hitting streak will start a count down to Dimaggio.
Comparing a bionic freak to Ty Cobb would be apples and oranges and would hurt the game.
A stronger swing will yield bat speed because there is more force to accelerate the bat. NFL linemen are not known for the ability to hit a curveball because of the lack of a batters eye, and .... a bat.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Stronger may not = greater bat speed. If that were so we'd see alot more NFL linemen types hitting dingers.
There are more than 100 customized Steroid "cocktails" that have been developed for specific sports. A linemens steroid is not the same as the one a track runner would use. They engineered specifically for what you want to accomplish.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Baseball, maybe more than any other sport is about statistics. The next guy to get near .400 will be compared to Ted Williams. The next guy to get a 45 game hitting streak will start a count down to Dimaggio.
Comparing a bionic freak to Ty Cobb would be apples and oranges and would hurt the game.
A stronger swing will yield bat speed because there is more force to accelerate the bat. NFL linemen are not known for the ability to hit a curveball because of the lack of a batters eye, and .... a bat.
Then tell me why Steroids are any different than vitamin supplements and year round excersize programs.
Neither of those existed when Williams was hitting .406 or when Dimaggio had his 56. There is no way to compare apples to apples and we should just stop trying.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I just don't have a problem with professionals doing whatever it takes to be the best. Let them ruin their lives while they hit 500 foot bombs. Why is it an issue? .
Romans felt the same way about "Games" they played. Gladiators were allowed, even forced to, kill each other for entertainment purposes of the crowds. How does it feel to teach your children "its okay to destroy your body (using 'roids) in order to entertain the masses and make millions...and oh, by the way, you'll most likely die at a young age."
:huh
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Romans felt the same way about "Games" they played. Gladiators were allowed, even forced to, kill each other for entertainment purposes of the crowds. How does it feel to teach your children "its okay to destroy your body (using 'roids) in order to entertain the masses and make millions...and oh, by the way, you'll most likely die at a young age."
:huh
I don't teach my children that, so I don't know how that feels. (I know you weren't directing that at anyone per say Rip, but I wanted to use it to illustrate my feelings below).
From the personal responsibility aspect, I will not tell my children that. I will also not blame Barry Bonds if my child wants to do steriods. I will place the blame squarely on him for his actions and until he is 18 on myself for not being the the parental role model I want to be.
I know this, my boys will be exposed to this when they reach high school (or maybe before, although I really shudder at that) and I am, and intend to, stay involved enough in their lives, that if they do bow to peer pressure, and I catch it, that, as long as they live as a dependent of mine, I will do what I can to put a stop to it (including making sure any adults in a coaching role with minors who facilitate this will be exposed).
I've already seen examples of parents who put their kids on growth hormones at elementary school age (under the guise of treating some other malady). I've seen a kid go from average to well above average in height and bulk from a fall season to a spring season. I won't blame Barry Bonds or society or any of that. The blame rests squarely on the parent who makes that decision for that child. Those aren't societal choices, those are individual choices. If you haven't seen it yourself Rip, I bet you will at some point as well with your boys' activities.
People do incredibley stupid things for fame and money (of course that applies to more than sports). That will never stop. I hope to be a good enough teacher to my boys to show how stupid things are not worth the fame and money. Easier said than done, I know, but what about raising kids isn't?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Romans felt the same way about "Games" they played. Gladiators were allowed, even forced to, kill each other for entertainment purposes of the crowds. How does it feel to teach your children "its okay to destroy your body (using 'roids) in order to entertain the masses and make millions...and oh, by the way, you'll most likely die at a young age."
:huh
Well the gladiator point is just silly... so I'll ignore it.
Kids worship sports stars. I thought Micky Mantle was the greatest. That didn't make me want to go out and ruin my liver. Or eat 20 hot dogs at a sitting like the Babe. Or become a racist ******* like Cobb. Or sleep with 20,000 women like Chamberlain.... well maybe like Chamberlain ....
Anyway if the purpose of restricting Steroid use is to protect the Children then we ought to take it a step further. All NFL linemen over 320lbs are in danger of ruining their future health through arthritis and other joint desease. They should be forced to lose weight.
Silly arguments all. Let them juice.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Then tell me why Steroids are any different than vitamin supplements and year round excersize programs.
Neither of those existed when Williams was hitting .406 or when Dimaggio had his 56. There is no way to compare apples to apples and we should just stop trying.
Good diet and year round excersize programs were available to the ancient Greek Olympians and they were available to Honus Wagner.
Steroids were not available to the elders. Also steroids can shrivel up your manhood, make you sterile, and can kill you. A well designed diet and excersize program has none of these harmful effects.
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Originally posted by SOB
I don't see how steroids would improve your ability to track the ball and time your swing, but it the extra power that swing punched sure would knock the ball a lot further, I would think.
Steroids are used while weight lifting, which allow the muscles to recuperate MUCH faster. This is the sole reason why Steroids are used. Also, when injured it helps the body repair the injury faster (his knees and elbow which have PLAGUED him his whole career).
Here:
See for yourself.
1992:
(http://www.fsu.edu/~crimdo/images/pirates/bonds.jpg)
1995: (still not on the juice yet)
(http://members.aol.com/henekelly/giants/bbonds2.jpg)
1999: (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/3211/bonds3.jpg)
Training + Steroids = more muscle mass QUICKER = faster bat speed and the inflated numbers this sad a** has accumulated.
MVP 8 times? My a**, ask Sid Bream (Barry Bonds couldn't throw one of the slowest players of the time out). Better yet, the ONLY time he hits 50+ HR's in a season, he hits 73?! If you need a roadmap, I can give you one.
Pre-1998 - AB per HR - 16.1
1998-on - AB per HR - 8.5
At least McGuire admitted to using Androstenedione.
Karaya
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Well the gladiator point is just silly... so I'll ignore it.
4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Oh, okay.:) Guess I was automatically reacting to your past, typical "falling-over-ones-self-to-defend-my-brokeback-buddy-MiniD" replies. :D
Typical? I only defend people when they're right. Mostly because I'm always right, so if I'm defending someone's opinion as correct, it's because I agree, so it is.
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Bonds did more than just steroids. That jerk put body armor all over his body and stood on top of home plate. In the old days, pitchers would not put up with that and would have thrown at his head every pitch. Now, with political correctness and body armor…the only thing pitchers could do was pitch him inside. However, with his superhuman hand speed- he could fight off the inside pitches making it impossible to pitch to him. Result- Bonds set all the records for walks as well.
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Sid bream...
Break down that scenario...two pitches before, Cabrera ripped a shot down the line, which drew Bonds closer to the corner...next pitch he hit a liner to straight away left field. Bonds' throw wasn't off by much but the catcher had to move up the first base line a few feet. It was a pretty good throw just not a perfect one.
Heh, I was rooting for the Braves anyway. I could care less if he's juiced or not, whether McGuire, Sosa, Palmeiro...were juiced or not (and they all were). Seems to me ppl hate this guy so much they'll be willing to believe anything negative about him.
Barkley took it on the chin when he said players shouldn't be role models, but he's right.
I think what Maris and Aaron did was still more significant than McGwire / Bonds are doing in the live-ball era anyway, so if bonds hits 100 homers this year, good for him. Doesn't mean a thing IMO, to me but I'll watch his ABs.