Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hubsonfire on March 10, 2006, 10:43:15 AM
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In another thread, I saw a few statements regarding collisions that struck me as almost outlandish.
First off, do you actually sustain damage if you collide with the debris from a dead plane? I was under the impression that while you'll hear the debris.wav play, you don't actually take damage from it, only from colliding with another play.
Do you always take damage in a collision? I seem to nearly always lose something in a collision which registers on my FE, and have survived "XXXX has collided with you" more times than I can count. I see 2 statements a lot, one being "the other guy who rammed me flies off intact", the other being "I ALWAYS DIE". I was under the impression that you took damage when you rammed, but didn't necessarily die (assuming in this case that you're not in a HO where all involved are firing). I was also under the impression that you didn't take damage when you were collided with, unless you were also fired upon. What's the actual setup?
Does connection speed really have a huge effect on who collides, excluding a HO mutual collision situation? With the exception of the last few days, my connection's been pretty stable, albeit a little slow, and I bet I've survived more collisions than I've died from by a huge margin. I'd venture that almost all of the collisions resulting in my death were me flying into drones, or actually getting shot, not just rammed/ramming.
Anyway, seeing another heated post on the subject got me wondering about the claims I see repeated over and over. Are they actually legitimate observations, or are the "facts" of collisions merely incorrect perceptions?
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My understanding (and all my experiences with it bear it out). (BTW, I'm a programmer, so spelling doesn't count.)
"XXX Colided with you" - His FE has regiestered a colision. He takes damage. You do NOT take damage.
"You collided with XXX" - Your FE registered a collision. You take some kind of damage, but it MAY OR MAY NOT register damage on your plane. Your wing may be HURT, but not torn off. So you may not get any visible damage even if you do collide.
If you see both, then what goes around, comes around. :-)
Ouch out
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I've had numerous occasions where the message is "XXXX has collided with you" and I've been the one going down. The old 38G loses it's tail in every collsion :)
I had one the other night where I had shot up a Ki 84 He was slowing and I was closing fast. I sparkled hits on his right wing and he then pulled left and I rammed his right wing. I lost my wing and went down, while he kept driving.
It was all good fun, so not complaining. HTC had a brand new 38G waiting for me, but it was interesting to have hit the Ki84 that hard with cannon and MGs and then driven through his wing, and he then got the kill on me due to the collision :)
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I believe HT has pointed out that sometimes when the other fellow collides with you, he's pointed at you and firing, so if he rams you, you won't take ram damage but he might shoot your wing off before he rams you.
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about The only time I collide with someone is on a HO........Dont HO and most of the time you will not collide......and yes I've been killed by falling Plane parts or when I shoot a guys down and I run into thier parts!!
:o
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Well Guppy, what probably happened to you was suicide. You can test this even in the TA, if you want.
If you're inside (or extremely close to) an opponent's plane while firing, you will recieve damage from the blast radii of your own rounds. Stick your wing inside someone's plane and fire; you'll die. I'm guessing the combo of shooting someone and just missing the ram will give the other guy the collide, he'll die, but the blast of your rounds will take a chunk off your aircraft.
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I'll pitch in my 2 cents, I'm on cable, ping rates from 15 to 60 depending on time of day
Hub said
First off, do you actually sustain damage if you collide with the debris from a dead plane? I was under the impression that while you'll hear the debris.wav play, you don't actually take damage from it, only from colliding with another play.
my experience is yes you can get damage and even die if you collide with debris. In AH1, me in 109G10, enemy B-17. B-17s were low on bombing pass, I came in fast from low 5o'clock. fired, several hits, plane breaks in to pieces, left wing flies in the air and directly in front of me. I hit the wing, I get tore up, hit the ground and trees, B-17 pilot get the kill.
In AH2, I have flown offline practicing deflection shooting, got too close like 100, plane blows up and sometimes I get damage, usually gear or flaps. I have no expericence with this online in the MA or AvA.
Ouch said
"XXX Colided with you" - His FE has regiestered a colision. He takes damage. You do NOT take damage.
"You collided with XXX" - Your FE registered a collision. You take some kind of damage, but it MAY OR MAY NOT register damage on your plane. Your wing may be HURT, but not torn off. So you may not get any visible damage even if you do collide.
My experience with this has been
XXX Colided with you - varies, sometimes I get damage and sometimes I dont.
You collided with XXX - I always get damage, sometimes a wing, sometimes an elevator, sometime engine/prop dead.
Guppy said
I had one the other night where I had shot up a Ki 84 He was slowing and I was closing fast. I sparkled hits on his right wing and he then pulled left and I rammed his right wing. I lost my wing and went down, while he kept driving.
three examples
Me La7, enemy B24's. I make a pass from his 9oclock, slightly beneath him. I lead and start firing at the wing and fuselage intending to break up and right during the pass, i turn and fly right into and through lead plane on formation. No collision message, no sound, no damage.
Me Niki, enemy Hurricane. Vultch light is lit. Hurri is turning to the right and slow. I fire and get several strikes on Hurri, wing, fuselage. Hurri pulls straight up into the path of my plane at about d100, I continue firing as I try to get out of the way, hoping he'll explode before I hit him. Wrong, I die, I get collision message, he gets kill.
Me in 163, enemy Lancs. I miss judge closure speed while coming up from below, fire, hit plane, realized my mistake, again I hope the plane will pop before I hit him, and wrong again. Boom I die, I get collision message, he lives and gets kill.
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Well, if two planes collide in the air, BOTH of them should take damage, even if I plane doesn't see it, its total horsecrap.
Why should someones connection speed determine if the other guy goes down?
IF there is a collision, it should simply mean both planes take damage. Its gettin pretty annoying to have your plane ripped in half due to a ram, and the other guy flys off unscaved. It just flat out doesn't make sense. If 1 FE sees a collision, then I believe both planes should suffer the damage.
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Originally posted by OOZ662
Well Guppy, what probably happened to you was suicide. You can test this even in the TA, if you want.
If you're inside (or extremely close to) an opponent's plane while firing, you will recieve damage from the blast radii of your own rounds. Stick your wing inside someone's plane and fire; you'll die. I'm guessing the combo of shooting someone and just missing the ram will give the other guy the collide, he'll die, but the blast of your rounds will take a chunk off your aircraft.
Any time I fly is potential 'suicide' for me so that makes sense :)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
In another thread, I saw a few statements regarding collisions that struck me as almost outlandish.
First off, do you actually sustain damage if you collide with the debris from a dead plane? I was under the impression that while you'll hear the debris.wav play, you don't actually take damage from it, only from colliding with another play.
You do not take damage from debri, but it does make a sound.
Do you always take damage in a collision? I seem to nearly always lose something in a collision which registers on my FE, and have survived "XXXX has collided with you" more times than I can count. I see 2 statements a lot, one being "the other guy who rammed me flies off intact", the other being "I ALWAYS DIE". I was under the impression that you took damage when you rammed, but didn't necessarily die (assuming in this case that you're not in a HO where all involved are firing). I was also under the impression that you didn't take damage when you were collided with, unless you were also fired upon. What's the actual setup?
Yes you always take damage when you see the message "You have collided" What takes damage is dependent on what part of you plane collides.
And if you take damage on a head on with out seeing that message it means you were shot.
Does connection speed really have a huge effect on who collides, excluding a HO mutual collision situation? With the exception of the last few days, my connection's been pretty stable, albeit a little slow, and I bet I've survived more collisions than I've died from by a huge margin. I'd venture that almost all of the collisions resulting in my death were me flying into drones, or actually getting shot, not just rammed/ramming.
Connection speed has no bearing on who collides. What you see is what happens to your collision.
Anyway, seeing another heated post on the subject got me wondering about the claims I see repeated over and over. Are they actually legitimate observations, or are the "facts" of collisions merely incorrect perceptions?
And make no mistake even thow I state this clearly people will still claim otherwise do to there "incorrect perceptions".
The only detail in the collision system which isn't 100% as I want to be is.
It is posible for a piece of your wing to slice threw a thin part of the other plane, and you would not sustain damage nore would you get a "You have collided message"
HiTech
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Lazzer picture it like this.
Both planes are towing target drones,What you shoot at and collide with is the other guys target drone and not the tow plane. HE is shooting and can collide with your target drone not you.
So what you are asking for is, if you collide with the other guys target drone, and he misses yours, You still wish him dead, even thow he clearly avoided your target drone. Or to put it the other way around, you avoided the target drone, but he collied with yours. And you wish the system would kill you also, even thow you missed the target drone.
Now in this example lag is just the length of the tow line.
HiTech
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well illustrated Ht,thanks.
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I have seen this explained so many times and people still don't get it. I'm not sure if they will understand HTs latest explanation either.
Laser, let me ask you this. You perform a close merge with an enemy, you clearly miss him by 20-30 yards, you see the message "{gameid} has collided with you" and find yourself in the tower. Tell me how PO'd you would be at that moment? Because that is exactly what you are asking for.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
I have seen this explained so many times and people still don't get it. I'm not sure if they will understand HTs latest explanation either.
Laser, let me ask you this. You perform a close merge with an enemy, you clearly miss him by 20-30 yards, you see the message "{gameid} has collided with you" and find yourself in the tower. Tell me how PO'd you would be at that moment? Because that is exactly what you are asking for.
Exactly.
I was flying some B-24's the other day when this LA7 comes crawling up my 6. I jump in the tail gun and start to line up him. By this time he is 400 off my six and firing. Before I can get a bead on him he pulls up and to his left. At this time he is 200 away from me. Then BOOM! he's gone. I get the "XXXXX has collided with you".
Now, I would be really pissed if I blew up as well...from my perspective he did not run into me.
Is this what you want Laser?
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Originally posted by Donzo
Exactly.
I was flying some B-24's the other day when this LA7 comes crawling up my 6. I jump in the tail gun and start to line up him. By this time he is 400 off my six and firing. Before I can get a bead on him he pulls up and to his left. At this time he is 200 away from me. Then BOOM! he's gone. I get the "XXXXX has collided with you".
Now, I would be really pissed if I blew up as well...from my perspective he did not run into me.
Is this what you want Laser?
I find that bomber formations are rammed from behind frequently now, and if I don't lose the bomber, I don't feel too bad about it. If the collider dies, so much the better. I frequently lose the bomber, but I believe it's because he's been gunning me right up to the collision. I try to gun him right up to the collision also. As long as both parties are shooting guns at each other, I don't think you can make intelligent analysis of who should have died in the collision.
One thing I'd like to see added to the collision model is, when someone collides with a tree, it should go away.
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One thing I'd like to see added to the collision model is, when someone collides with a tree, it should go away.
If a tree falls in the woods, and you aren't there to see it, does it make a sound?
How do you know it Doesn't to away, you zip back to the tower :noid
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ROC, if said tree was parked at the end of a runway and you were a heavy bomber struggling to take off, you can clearly see that said tree is intact when you hit it again the second time :rofl
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Miracle Grow? I mean, It can happen, you come back to life :D
(work with me here, we got him worried)
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Originally posted by Krusty
ROC, if said tree was parked at the end of a runway and you were a heavy bomber struggling to take off, you can clearly see that said tree is intact when you hit it again the second time :rofl
No, that's just testament to the quality and professionalism of the grounds keeping department for that base. They replant a new tree as soon as one has been terribly and horribly destroyed by a lumbering bomber rolling down the runway.
ack-ack
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I understand the collision model, but get a load of this.
I'm on the runway, taking off. I see a 190 coming in from from 12 o'clock low to vulch me.. I hit the brakes hoping to tower out before i die.
I'm not fast enough, and he strafes me down, but i also get the message , "You Have Collided", before i explode.
From the tower i see mr 190 zooming up and away???
I'm sure he was laughing to himself when he saw the message on his screen "Speed55 has collided with you".
How did i collide with him?
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On your front end it looked like both of your aircraft occupied the same space. On the 190's front end it did not.
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Going have to start filming my jet rides then. I have on numerous occasions where ill rip plane apart and their wing hits me and i die or their gear. :(
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I would ask Hitech to at least lower the sensitivity of these so-called collisions and debris damage like he does with ack effectiveness. It is currently much too sensitive with the state of the microwarps in this game.
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There is no damage from debris. See Hitech's post above.
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Not debris like blown off ailerons and the like but if you collide with the a main part of the wreckage like what's left of the fuselage or wing still attached then you will collide.
ack-ack
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There is something wrong with the collision model when a guy on the ground is penalized for colliding with a plane that was diving on him. Obviously the diving plane hit something (the plane or more probably the ground as well) but it flies off into the distance unscathed. See the post above.
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I hit debris all the time without dying... in fact, I make it a point that if I hear the sound of their dead plane's peices hitting mine, I fired at a perfect range.
Sounds like hail hitting a tin roof in a rapid fashion.
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What concerns me is if you can get yourself in just the right angle, you can kill the leader of a formation of buffs and he will end up ramming you with the drone as it goes to replace the hole. Sometimes, this will the bomber outright, or at least soften it to the point where only about 50 rounds of MG can take it out.
Granted, the idiot has to not be firing at you while you're almost to his 8 o'clock, but I can get myself into this position about 85% of the time successfully and save tons of ammo.
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Overall i'm relatively pleased with the ram model..
Nothing is perfect, as this is a game, and everyone should accept that, but sometimes it just seems a little fine tuning is needed. Like what happens if both ends see the ram happening, but only one guy gets the "you have collided" message. I think both planes should go down in a ball of flaming wreckage. I mean, look what happens when two cars collide at 40mph, nevermind 240, or 400mph.
I still love the game, and i'm not going anywhere..
Most of the time when it says that i have collided with someone, its because i have, at least on my end.
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Originally posted by Delirium
What concerns me is if you can get yourself in just the right angle, you can kill the leader of a formation of buffs and he will end up ramming you with the drone as it goes to replace the hole. Sometimes, this will the bomber outright, or at least soften it to the point where only about 50 rounds of MG can take it out.
Granted, the idiot has to not be firing at you while you're almost to his 8 o'clock, but I can get myself into this position about 85% of the time successfully and save tons of ammo.
No, the real pisser is when you bounce an unsuspecting bogie and saddle up on 6 slot and get in nice and close and let loose with a full burst of 20mm and .50s only to fly into the bogie as it flips over when you remove the tail.
ack-ack
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I get this (So and so Collided with you) No gun fired on my part look back hes flying away while im floating to the ground and die. Whats with that. He collided with me and I die he flys away and lands.:rofl
Once I even had someone collide with me I die and I say Nice ram he say well I tryed:rofl He lands his kill while I die. Makes no sence at all But hey its a game I just think it needs to be fixed some how.:O
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in my 5 years of AH I have learned, I could be a 5 mile wide meteor and he could be in a Wright flyer and I would still lose the collision.
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well here is a case that happened to me, that i am curious about.
i was coming in on an enemy plane, he was quite slow, i was quite fast. as i approached his 6, he moved only a little, but was enough for me to have to get closer before breaking off. so now only a VERY short time to fire and move before collision. i manage to make a good shot with concentrated fire, im sure it did severe damage. I pulled very hard up and to the left, and did not collide with the enemy.....however, as my belly was passing his position, i think he pulled into me as a late response to my attack. I get the message that "xxx has collided."
so he collided with me, causing my plane to be wrecked. i got the kill, most likely because of the damage i caused before the collision. this of course happened to be one of our favorite players......which lead to a few comments made on 200:)
my question is this, he collided with me.....but i recieved damage. so would i be correct to assume that both our FE's saw the collision? just wanted to make sure that my assumption that it doesn't matter who collides with who, only which FE "sees it."
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Originally posted by hitech
Both planes are towing target drones,What you shoot at and collide with is the other guys target drone and not the tow plane. HE is shooting and can collide with your target drone not you.
So what you are asking for is, if you collide with the other guys target drone, and he misses yours, You still wish him dead, even thow he clearly avoided your target drone. Or to put it the other way around, you avoided the target drone, but he collied with yours. And you wish the system would kill you also, even thow you missed the target drone.
Now in this example lag is just the length of the tow line.
HiTech
Rut Roh! I understood something HT said.
Usualy everything is in formulas and equations. Only experience I have had with formulas is the water to powder ratio for Enfamil. ( We raised four girls)
Now I R the edikated Redneck.
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Originally posted by pluck
well here is a case that happened to me, that i am curious about.
i was coming in on an enemy plane, he was quite slow, i was quite fast. as i approached his 6, he moved only a little, but was enough for me to have to get closer before breaking off. so now only a VERY short time to fire and move before collision. i manage to make a good shot with concentrated fire, im sure it did severe damage. I pulled very hard up and to the left, and did not collide with the enemy.....however, as my belly was passing his position, i think he pulled into me as a late response to my attack. I get the message that "xxx has collided."
so he collided with me, causing my plane to be wrecked. i got the kill, most likely because of the damage i caused before the collision. this of course happened to be one of our favorite players......which lead to a few comments made on 200:)
my question is this, he collided with me.....but i recieved damage. so would i be correct to assume that both our FE's saw the collision? just wanted to make sure that my assumption that it doesn't matter who collides with who, only which FE "sees it."
If you did not get the message that you collided with him, then your damage probably came from a different source. As you describe it, I suspect as you overflew him, he went nose up and hit the trigger raking the bottom of your airplane, causing the damage. Due to the slight time variances in sending / receiving information between the two computers, you may not have perceived his plane going nose up.
Or, on his front end you were a "ace pilot" and flew right through him so momentarily you appeared to be in front of him where he shot you.
This is akin to times when another plane is shooting at me from the front quarter, seems to pass me entirely, I have enough time to think "good, he missed", only to suddenly have my wing fall off. He did NOT miss, just took a tenth of a second for all the data transfer to verify the fact.
Either this, or you SA sucks and someone else plugged you. ;) J/K
Point is (like HTC has said many a time), HE got damaged because of the collision. YOU got damaged because of something else.
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Originally posted by Delirium
I hit debris all the time without dying... in fact, I make it a point that if I hear the sound of their dead plane's peices hitting mine, I fired at a perfect range.
Sounds like hail hitting a tin roof in a rapid fashion.
I always try to throw pieces of my plane at the bad guy in hopes of knocking him down. I really like a half a wing with two engines attached for maximum effect.
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I understand now, thanks for the detailed explanation.
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Originally posted by pluck
well here is a case that happened to me, that i am curious about.
i was coming in on an enemy plane, he was quite slow, i was quite fast. as i approached his 6, he moved only a little, but was enough for me to have to get closer before breaking off. so now only a VERY short time to fire and move before collision. i manage to make a good shot with concentrated fire, im sure it did severe damage. I pulled very hard up and to the left, and did not collide with the enemy.....however, as my belly was passing his position, i think he pulled into me as a late response to my attack. I get the message that "xxx has collided."
so he collided with me, causing my plane to be wrecked. i got the kill, most likely because of the damage i caused before the collision. this of course happened to be one of our favorite players......which lead to a few comments made on 200:)
my question is this, he collided with me.....but i recieved damage. so would i be correct to assume that both our FE's saw the collision? just wanted to make sure that my assumption that it doesn't matter who collides with who, only which FE "sees it."
I would wager a large sum of money that as he pulled up he opened fire.
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I would like to see Hitech revise the plane to plane collision model so that the collider dies or receives much heavier damage than the collidee ..... otherwise he is just encouraging rams.
With debris collisions, when a plane is shot up enough to become unflyable, ie. a wing is off, the shooter can be killed by colliding with the wing because of the delay in receiving the kill message. Because one has to get close to shoot with the current gunnery model there is often not enough time to avoid these random chunks of debris before the kill message arrives. Therefore the sensitivity of the debris collisions should be greatly reduced.
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Originally posted by hitech
You do not take damage from debri, but it does make a sound.
Yes you always take damage when you see the message "You have collided" What takes damage is dependent on what part of you plane collides.
And if you take damage on a head on with out seeing that message it means you were shot.
Connection speed has no bearing on who collides. What you see is what happens to your collision.
And make no mistake even thow I state this clearly people will still claim otherwise do to there "incorrect perceptions".
The only detail in the collision system which isn't 100% as I want to be is.
It is posible for a piece of your wing to slice threw a thin part of the other plane, and you would not sustain damage nore would you get a "You have collided message"
HiTech
Thanks for the response, HiTech. I suspected this was the case, but wanted to hear from the resident expert on some of the aspects I hadn't seen discussed in quite some time.
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I know that is how it is supposed to work in theory but reality is much different. What ticks me off is when I am flying straight and level.......a con lines up on me for an HO but dives under me and pulls up early. I get the message that 'xxx has collided with you', I lose my tail and crash, and he flies away apparently unhurt.
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Originally posted by Docc
I would like to see Hitech revise the plane to plane collision model so that the collider dies or receives much heavier damage than the collidee ..... otherwise he is just encouraging rams.
With debris collisions, when a plane is shot up enough to become unflyable, ie. a wing is off, the shooter can be killed by colliding with the wing because of the delay in receiving the kill message. Because one has to get close to shoot with the current gunnery model there is often not enough time to avoid these random chunks of debris before the kill message arrives. Therefore the sensitivity of the debris collisions should be greatly reduced.
:D
I know that is how it is supposed to work in theory but reality is much different. What ticks me off is when I am flying straight and level.......a con lines up on me for an HO but dives under me and pulls up early. I get the message that 'xxx has collided with you', I lose my tail and crash, and he flies away apparently unhurt.
:D
Sorta get the feeling that someone "don`t get it"? :lol
Go back and read what HT said again.
Immediately after reading the responses from HT in this thread I logged into the MA. It wasn`t 5 minutes after that a argument over collisons started on 200. The most active member of this argument was quoting from this thread. Only problem was he quoted HT exactly opposite of what was posted here. Classic. :aok
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All I'm saying is that in collisions with another plane (not debris) the collider should sustain the damage. On the collidee's front end it was a clear miss so why does the collidee pay for it by sustaining damage while the collider flies off unharmed.
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IF you hate collision model join ltars gvs only collided with trees and flip over. And in my gv's I've had at-least 100-200 planes collided with My tank. that's how i got 36 kills 1 sortie i would 1 ping them they would ram my tank. sad part is if guy really rammed your tank I'm pretty sure fireball would cook tank drivers for dinner. SO become GV men and you'll never die to a collision with enmy again........................ .......
Lazer If you stop trying to see in to every mans cockpit, I'm sure your collisions would decrease, But I don't think you can change. You were born that way!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
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Originally posted by Docc
I know that is how it is supposed to work in theory but reality is much different. What ticks me off is when I am flying straight and level.......a con lines up on me for an HO but dives under me and pulls up early. I get the message that 'xxx has collided with you', I lose my tail and crash, and he flies away apparently unhurt.
Please re-read the notes above more carefully. If you did not get a message that YOU collided with xxx, then you received NO collision damage. Rather, your tail fell off because HE SHOT IT before colliding with you.
Originally posted by Docc
All I'm saying is that in collisions with another plane (not debris) the collider should sustain the damage. On the collidee's front end it was a clear miss so why does the collidee pay for it by sustaining damage while the collider flies off unharmed.
Collider always receives the damage. Collidee does not UNLESS he also is a "Collider" on his front end. The Collider NEVER flies away unharmed. The damage may be minimal, but damage did occur.
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Originally posted by Docc
All I'm saying is that in collisions with another plane (not debris) the collider should sustain the damage. On the collidee's front end it was a clear miss so why does the collidee pay for it by sustaining damage while the collider flies off unharmed.
Docc,
In this situation, one of three things happened.
1. You also collided with him.
2. He shot you (before or AFTER the collision). I can't count the number of planes I've shot down that, once they are unflyable, and flapping around in the breeze, hold the trigger down, hoping for a lucky bullet.
3. Someone else you did not see shot you.
You did NOT receive damage from his collision with you, or from any debris from that collision, unless you collided with his (still manned) cockpit (in which case you WILL receive the "you have collided with XXX" message).
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Originally posted by Kaw1000
about The only time I collide with someone is on a HO........Dont HO and most of the time you will not collide......and yes I've been killed by falling Plane parts or when I shoot a guys down and I run into thier parts!!
:o
You just suk and can't get in close enough to collide:D
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holy mackeral batman, GIVE UP with this topic already.
THE RAM MODEL IS NOT GUNNA CHANGE, IF THAT PISSES YOU OFF STOP FLYING INTO PEOPLE.
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Thanks for the flyby backseat mod, bat, but the thread's not about changing the model, it's about eliminating some of the misconceptions about the current model.
We're all about education here. :aok
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In the time ive flown here, Ive only once been in a collision where it didnt look like we should have hit on my end. DO a test with someone. Go spinner to spinner a few time no firing. Ive done this. Both people take damage.
Now go spinner to spinner but at the last second one of you yank to avoid. That person may lose an elevator, but still be flyable, where the other guy goes down from damage. Atleast thats how it worked for me.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Now go spinner to spinner but at the last second one of you yank to avoid. That person may lose an elevator, but still be flyable, where the other guy goes down from damage. Atleast thats how it worked for me.
Who got what message(s) in this test?
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Just wanted to report that i had faith in the Collision model ... until last night.
Let me explain, and please note, I am not complaining. I don't care much about the death. I hope this info helps in the debugging of the software/algorithm.
I am piloting a P38L (quite experten if you ask me :lol ). I drop eggs on VH, climb out fast. A Niki with high CAP dives on me and has E advantage. He puts a single cannon round into me, and misses with the rest. Niki then collides with me, from behind. I lose an aileron, Niki gets Engine Oil hit (black smoke).
I got the "XXX" has collided with you" message.
He flies to my 9-o clock, climbing a little to maintain some E advantage. I see this, and roll towards him to minimize his AoA when he comes back. He sees me roll towards him, and proceeds to roll at me for the head-on merge.
We both open fire (cuz i know he's gonna shoot, so i figure i should too, instead of dying 'like a gentleman'). He misses me entirely. I land a few on his front quarter and pull up to avoid hitting him.
He hits me, I get the "XXX has collided with you" message. This time, my tail comes off completely, and I spiral to my demise.
The Niki FLIES ON, missing no control surfaces. SIGH.
:eek: :rolleyes:
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When you pulled up he shot your tail off then rammed you
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I might agree that the collision model works as Hitech states it does (not sure yet)...........but it is way too sensitive considering the differences in internet connections, packet loss, lag, and what people see on their front ends.
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Originally posted by Docc
I might agree that the collision model works as Hitech states it does (not sure yet)..........
ROFL
Docc, believe me when I tell ya that HT has a pretty good working knowledge of Aces High. :D
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Originally posted by Darkish
When you pulled up he shot your tail off then rammed you
I considered this possibility, but i highly doubt it considering the angles on our merge. Can't confrim this being the case, or confrim otherwise without video, I know.
I also didnt hear the sound of a hit before/during the collision, and usually, i will on this sort of situation.
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Originally posted by hitech
And make no mistake even thow I state this clearly people will still claim otherwise do to there "incorrect perceptions".
HiTech
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he still hit me twice and took less damage than me :)
just telling you what i saw - not trying to make trouble or anything.
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Hypothesis / question out of pure ignorance . . .
Plane A "collides with" plane B, while plane B receives no collision message.
Just so happens that plane "A" collides on his "front end" in such a way that his plane's weapons and ammo section (say on the wing) strikes plane B's tail.
Is it possible in this instance that plane A registers a "hit" of his ammo vs. plane B? This "hit" would take a milisecond to be transfered to plane B's front end, and would tend to correspond with the message "plane A has collided with you".
Far fetched, grasping at straws, etc. I know. I am just looking for a logical explanation of so many "incorrect perceptions" that might include "I never heard any hits."
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Do trees get the "Someone has collieded with you" message when I run into them?
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Originally posted by Casper1
I considered this possibility, but i highly doubt it considering the angles on our merge. Can't confrim this being the case, or confrim otherwise without video, I know.
I also didnt hear the sound of a hit before/during the collision, and usually, i will on this sort of situation.
That is YOUR perception of the angle, you have to understand that on his end it could be quite different angle. Also, Nik1 has wing mounted guns. The dispersion pattern if he fired further out than convergence could be quite wide.
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Originally posted by E25280
Hypothesis / question out of pure ignorance . . .
Plane A "collides with" plane B, while plane B receives no collision message.
Just so happens that plane "A" collides on his "front end" in such a way that his plane's weapons and ammo section (say on the wing) strikes plane B's tail.
Is it possible in this instance that plane A registers a "hit" of his ammo vs. plane B? This "hit" would take a milisecond to be transfered to plane B's front end, and would tend to correspond with the message "plane A has collided with you".
Far fetched, grasping at straws, etc. I know. I am just looking for a logical explanation of so many "incorrect perceptions" that might include "I never heard any hits."
NO, I believe weapons damage would only occur if the weapon was fired.
I've thought that HT could put another message when sending the collision messages. Somthing like.
xxx collided with you.
You were killed by weapons fire
But seriously, why bother, they still would not believe it.
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Originally posted by E25280
I am just looking for a logical explanation of so many "incorrect perceptions" that might include "I never heard any hits."
If you're looking for rational thinking and logical minds, this bbs isn't a great place to find either. ;)
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I agree.......a message that states 'you were killed by weapons fire' would help aleve a lot of misconceptions. I agree with Caspar1... he wuz robbed....hit twice and the hitter flies away The pat answer here is that the collider pulled the trigger just before he hits you. He hasn't pulled the trigger or gotten any tracer-less hits anytime within 1000 feet distance so how do you reasonably expect him to pull the trigger ten feet out at a closing speed of at least 400 mph while he's trying to maneuver for or avoid a collision and still get enough hits to do major damage?? Eliminate the ram model in this game.....the collider must die upon contact no matter what part of his plane collides with the collidee. Too easy in this game to take a guy's tail off with your prop......he dies and you glide home.
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<------------BRB Getting more popcorn.
This is getting hilarious. :rofl
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
NO, I believe weapons damage would only occur if the weapon was fired.
I've thought that HT could put another message when sending the collision messages. Somthing like.
xxx collided with you.
You were killed by weapons fire
But seriously, why bother, they still would not believe it.
I do think a message about what killed you would be useful, but given the way the damage model works, I am not sure it is possible.
For example, in "Unreal Tournament" I might get a message like "Brauno's head was exploded by XaQshuner's Sniper Rifle". The Rifle did the last bit of damage that killed the player. Cut and dried.
But in AH, how many times have you taken a wing off of a plane only to get an assist? This may cause a bit of confusion. What happens if my wing gets shot off by that SpitXVI that won't get off my tail, but the message I get is "Schatzi Shot you down with .303s from her Hurri I" because she peppered me for 10 seconds about two minutes ago? I thought I was flying just fine, but the damage model dictates that she gets the kill.
Even your simple "weapons fire" message wouldn't work then. "Sure, I took a few hits, but I could have landed it if the prop on that ho-tard didn't do that last bit of damage to me."
And what of the Proxy? "Oak Tree killed you with impact damage" instead? (Actually, I would see that one a lot . . . )
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most of the time it's the first engagement of the flight..........no previous damage from anything.
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The tests I did, I dont recall who it said collided with who. I think the thing that irks people is the fact that since both hit, and both took damage, the computer had to chose a guy to blame, rather than saying you both collided. Unfortuately that guy gets the brunt of the hit.