Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vulcan on October 14, 2001, 05:04:00 AM
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Well, I sit here nice and safe in my little corner of the world watching the goings on unfold on the news. Slowly but surely I am sickened by a picture I see forming of the whiney sniveling Arab nations.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not a staunch pro-USA cheerleader either. The US does some sneaky backstabbing underhand toejam from time to time. The USA, to me, is nothing more than the "corporate backed" nation of the World. Is that bad? I don't know - to me, not really, this world is always about survival of the fittest and the collapse of the communist block signals the USA "corporate" path is the survivor.
As to be expected the Arabs are slowly turning against the US led stikes. They are using the Palestinian issue as justification.
Now step back, look at the bigger picture, let me ask some questions of these devote Islamic nations:
- Who funds the PLO? Or do RPGs, AK47 ammo, and plastic explosives grow on Trees over there?
- What have you done in negotiating a settlement between Palestine and Israel
- What have you done to stop those f**ked up Palestinian kids from blowing up an Israeli Pizza hut everytime a ceasefire starts working
- What did you do when Iraq was invading, looting, raping, and killing in Kuwait?
- What did you do when Iraq was gassing its own civilian population
- What did you do when Iraq was commiting genocide against the Kurds
- What did you do to help out Afghanistan through its droughts?
- What have you provided to feed the starving in Afghanistan
- What did you do to stop the human rights (esp against women) abuses in Afghanistan by the Taliban
- Did you lead a coalition to keep the USRR out of Afghanistan (if not who provided the Mujhadeen with weapons and training?)
- Did you lead the forces in Kosovo to prevent the genocide of the Islamic population there?
- Why don't you stop these fundamentalists organisations before they reach critical mass?
- Why do you blame the misery and poverty in parts of the Middle East on America while fat saudi's have a Merc for each day of the week?
A message for the Arab world - PULL YOUR FINGER OUT OF YOUR BUTT AND CLEAN UP YOUR BACK YARD. If you kick sand in the face of the big kid on the block (USA) then expect and arse kicking back. Stop blaming the f**kedupedness of your region on America. To the Saudi's especially, maybe next time Saddam gets an itch the US should leave him to Kuwait, and whatever Saudi land he decides to 'annex'. Then we'll see how you feel about 'infidels' landing on your 'holy land'.
And a message for the US... the solution. We need (the world that is) you guys to come up with a cheap, easy to produce synthetic oil. We need to take the power ($$$) out the hands of these arrogant, whiney, screwed up ragheads. We need to reduce them to camel-humping nomads they really are. That will bring stablisation to the middle-east!
Sorry for the rant, but seeing a bunch of the Saudi royal family (spit) take such an arrogant attitude to the situation made me see red.
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lol nice one. :)
But since when has human rights violations been so important to the Western world?
Only when it suits them, is the answer. Before Sept. 11, it wasn't exactly widespread knowledge of how bad the Taliban were in this regard.
The rest of the time it's left to NGOs to campaign against human rights violations.
Meanwhile, countries like Britain grant export licenses for arms companies, who then sell electric shock batons to China. These 'crowd control' instruments are then used to anally rape Chinese women who have the misfortune to be labelled 'dissidents'.
A documented example among many.
As for Iraq. What has the US/UK done for the people of that particular state? Set-up and then promised to support a whole series of Kurdish rebellions and army coups - the failure of which has inevitably lead to widespread bloodshed.
They currently maintain an embargo around Iraq which includs humanitarian aid. UNICEF blames the sanctions for the deaths of more than 500,000 Iraqi children under 5 since 1991. Thousands are still dying every month. Meanwhile Saddam and his cronies are stronger than ever, with a hold on power that grown in strength throughout the 90's.
While the Gulf States don't exactly have a good record on just about anything, the US et al are not the white knights they purport themselves to be.
[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
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What Dowding said.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
lol nice one. :)
But since when has human rights violations been so important to the Western world?
Only when it suits them, is the answer. Before Sept. 11, it wasn't exactly widespread knowledge of how bad the Taliban were in this regard.
The rest of the time it's left to NGOs to campaign against human rights violations.
Meanwhile, countries like Britain grant export licenses for arms companies, who then sell electric shock batons to China. These 'crowd control' instruments are then used to anally rape Chinese women who have the misfortune to be labelled 'dissidents'.
A documented example among many.
As for Iraq. What has the US/UK done for the people of that particular state? Set-up and then promised to support a whole series of Kurdish rebellions and army coups - the failure of which has inevitably lead to widespread bloodshed.
They currently maintain an embargo around Iraq which includs humanitarian aid. UNICEF blames the sanctions for the deaths of more than 500,000 Iraqi children under 5 since 1991. Thousands are still dying every month. Meanwhile Saddam and his cronies are stronger than ever, with a hold on power that grown in strength throughout the 90's.
While the Gulf States don't exactly have a good record on just about anything, the US et al are not the white knights they purport themselves to be.
[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
Anti-American drivel, see above.
Tumor
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I should be President.
I'd take over the Middle East in one easy crushing swoop. Oil problems over.
And napalm for every fellow that wears a big cotton wick on his head if he don't like it.
Rest assured, I wouldn't invade other countries like England, they can have their tar stained buck toothed wenches and warm beer. I would collect all war debts though with threat of nuclear destruction. When they paid, I'd give it to all male American taxpayers.
That's it.
Oh, and I'd lower taxes and give refunds in the form of Best Buy coupons, so we can all buy plasma bigscreens. :D
Its so easy. Please vote.
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And napalm for every fellow that wears a big cotton wick on his head if he don't like it.
Thats rude, arrogant, insensitive and repugnant.
I love it. :D
Gets my vote.
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Originally posted by Tumor:
Anti-American drivel, see above.
Tumor
I disagree.
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Somewhat, but not much.
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Amen Creamo. "Scorched Earth: Casablanca to Kabul"
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
I disagree.
of course
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Originally posted by Dowding:
They currently maintain an embargo around Iraq which includs humanitarian aid. UNICEF blames the sanctions for the deaths of more than 500,000 Iraqi children under 5 since 1991. Thousands are still dying every month. Meanwhile Saddam and his cronies are stronger than ever, with a hold on power that grown in strength throughout the 90's.
Narrow minded roadkill if I ever heard it, why don't you go look up the death rates of children in iraq before 1991...you might find that the dictator Saddam didn't feed his people any better before he got his bellybutton kicked in the gulf war.
I love you people who cry indignation...yet really have no Golly-geen idea what's really going on.
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Creamo: if you win, rewrite the constitution so I can vote for you :)
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Exactly my point Dowding. Why don't these arsewipes clean up their own back yard? Why doesn't Asia clean up China. Why is it the "western world" that has to do it?
So 500000 children die in Iraq? What did Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Syria do about it? NOTHING.
Its whining like yours the points the finger at the west that I'm talking about. Sure we aren't white knights, but at least we do something from time to time instead of sitting round pick our arabic noses. If they had got their act together first we wouldn't have had to go there and kick Saddams arse, or Osamas.
Oh and I forgot one other point:
- what have the Arab states done about the boatlands of Afghan refugees pouring out into the world? I know my nation is taking it share, and the Aussies are taking a toejamload, but can't the ragheads look after their own. Seems to me only the Pakistani's are doing something (1 million in 10 years I believe). But I don't see the Arabs opening the doors for them.
Originally posted by Dowding:
lol nice one. :)
But since when has human rights violations been so important to the Western world?
Only when it suits them, is the answer. Before Sept. 11, it wasn't exactly widespread knowledge of how bad the Taliban were in this regard.
The rest of the time it's left to NGOs to campaign against human rights violations.
Meanwhile, countries like Britain grant export licenses for arms companies, who then sell electric shock batons to China. These 'crowd control' instruments are then used to anally rape Chinese women who have the misfortune to be labelled 'dissidents'.
A documented example among many.
As for Iraq. What has the US/UK done for the people of that particular state? Set-up and then promised to support a whole series of Kurdish rebellions and army coups - the failure of which has inevitably lead to widespread bloodshed.
They currently maintain an embargo around Iraq which includs humanitarian aid. UNICEF blames the sanctions for the deaths of more than 500,000 Iraqi children under 5 since 1991. Thousands are still dying every month. Meanwhile Saddam and his cronies are stronger than ever, with a hold on power that grown in strength throughout the 90's.
While the Gulf States don't exactly have a good record on just about anything, the US et al are not the white knights they purport themselves to be.
[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
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Nice rant Vulcan.
- Who funds the PLO? Or do RPGs, AK47 ammo, and plastic explosives grow on Trees over there?
Who funds Isreal's army ?
- What have you done in negotiating a settlement between Palestine and Israel
Not much, which can also be said for us. If there is anyone who can bring Israel to the table - that's us, and since Sharom is at the helm, whole thing went to toejam, and we didn't care.
- What have you done to stop those f**ked up Palestinian kids from blowing up an Israeli Pizza hut everytime a ceasefire starts working
What have we done to stop Israel from kicking Palestinians out of their houses and knocking them down so that new "settlements" can be created ?
- What did you do when Iraq was invading, looting, raping, and killing in Kuwait?
Hell, we went in there to save our oil supply and reestablish monarchy, in the name of freedom and democracy offcourse.
I invite you to visit UAE or Kuwait one of those days. If you've never seen human enslavement at work...
- What did you do when Iraq was gassing its own civilian population
Same as us - nothing.
- What did you do when Iraq was commiting genocide against the Kurds
Let's see, we allow Turkey to perform exacly the same thing, with Nato blessing. We just convinently "don't notice". Ask few Kurds what they think about coalition help after Gulf War.
- What did you do to help out Afghanistan through its droughts?
Nobody ever cared. Muslim or any other. Neither did we, till we got a hard on for Bin Laden.
Only people who ever did anything about it were those leftist nuts who think they can save the world..
- What have you provided to feed the starving in Afghanistan
I know that one !!! They dropped 36000 meals to 5 million starving people ? Is that right profesor ?
- What did you do to stop the human rights (esp against women) abuses in Afghanistan by the Taliban
They did nothing, just the same as us. We never cared, and we still don't. Bush said we're not going there to kick out Taliban, which is only reason why i don't feel current action is justified. They need to be removed, Northern Alliance need to be installed in power, Pakistan needs to be told to diddly off.
Up till now, we're avoiding Northern Alliance issue. End result will be simple - puppet government of Afganistan - not quite Taliban but close - controled from Islamabad - and that's nice and comfy with us, in the name of Freedom and Democracy offcouse.
- Did you lead a coalition to keep the USRR out of Afghanistan (if not who provided the Mujhadeen with weapons and training?)
Pffff.. who are you kidding. We did it only to piss off russians, nothing more.
Now we wish we didn't.
- Did you lead the forces in Kosovo to prevent the genocide of the Islamic population there?
Funny that lot of KLA seems to be made up of muslims who aren't albanian... you might find that some of them visited Afganistan not so long ago..
- Why don't you stop these fundamentalists organisations before they reach critical mass?
Define fundamentalist and critical mass. I'm quite sure by your definition we should hang Falwell now.
- Why do you blame the misery and poverty in parts of the Middle East on America while fat saudi's have a Merc for each day of the week?
Cause those 1% of rich fat saudis are there because we've put them there !!! We preach Democracy yet we defend Kingdoms and create Dictatorships ( Iran ) and support them ( Pakistan ). We support "freedom fighters" only when it serves our cause and we are not ever interested in freedom.
We are "objective judge" in palestine/israel conflict, yet its our dollars that pay of Isreal's tanks and planes..
Think about it for a second. Go buy a book on XX Century history, and for a moment put yourself in the shoes of someone who wasn't fed "God bless America" all his life, doesn't have toejam to show for all his work cause he never had a chance. Just had his house destroyed due to "settlements" and his family has been "relocated" to the desert, where International Agencies have to feed people cause there ain't no other food.
Just for a minute stop being a blind patriot, and try being human, then you'll see how other people can think as horrible things as they do.
Before 20 of you here miscountrue me for a "rag head lover" let me go on record saying that i'm ex miliry, US Citizen, and i agree with current bombing of Astudmuffinanistan.
I'm disappointed with it's lack of long term goal, and blind, unbriddled patriotism in my book equals to nationalism.
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what dowding said.
when politicians want you to follow something,they don't try to reason with you, and they certainly don't apply their lofty morals to all parties in the world.$$$$$
instead they will give you some lifetime movies for women plot like we're doing it for the 'plight of the children' or against 'human rights violations' some similar roadkill.$$$$$$$$$
the reality is that these travesties exist all the time all over the place and only become unpalettable when our interests are at stake.$$$$$$$$
politicians have an easy canvas in the american public becuase their emotions are easily manipulated and always running high:
workin' joe, day 1: kuwaiti who? oh those rich guys that hide their women under sheets?
the news teat: <magic words> sim salabim bamba saladusaladim!
workin' joe, day 2: <choking back tears with american flag as backdrop> with god and tom brokaw as my witness, those innocent peace loving kuwaiti's will NEVER be defeated!! fight on you romantic desert poets!$$$$
not that we shouldn't have interveined - i have no problem ther - but would workin' joe have known either way? or would he have just bellied up to the opinion box and received his ration? $$$$$$$$$$
the only response you will ever get from the american public if you suggest this is the predictable spit spewing anger and of course additional flag waving. $$$$$$$$
the kurds are the largest ethnicity with no homeland and we welched on em.....yet some of the money we contribute to israel is actually earmarked for them to redistribute to their own foreign aid programs! do we have that much money to give away? $$$$$$$
why was our defense budget cut before our outflow of aid to israel? why did we cease funding other foreign aid programs and leave isreals % untouched!! why aren't the kurds as important as the jews? why isn't their suffering the plot of endless movies!!!$$$$$$$$
sadly, in a month of sundays the american public will never see that size matters. the size your lobby and the depth that your tentacles infest the host organism.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
edit: oh yeah - our 'interests' are clear in the present case = we need to strike back and strike back hard for the sep 11th bombing so dont get me wrong.
-BUT- dont let it close your eyes to the real nature of our decision making process. they get way too much past the public. cheers.
[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: mrfish ]
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I dont think shock batons should be substituted for vibrators. I um well i think it might hurt them.
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FD Ski, I wanted to make the same post you did. Couldn't have done it nearly as good as you did. Very well put. Thanks.
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Fd Ski:
Is there ANYTHING the USA has EVER done right besides elect your idol Bill Clinton?
Please enlighten us on how YOU in all YOUR wisdom would handle US Foreign Policy in a World full of nutcase tyrants, uneducated dirt farmers, brainwashed Socialist drones, and hypocrite "Democratic" leaders?
Tell us , Oh Socialist One.....
Mrfish:
Your cynicism is exceeded only by your contempt for the American People. Your tone is borderline Anti-Semitic as well. Israel, our Ally, is a Democratic Nation in a region that has no others. No Israel=No Jewish Homeland and more than likely a lot of dead Jews.
There are effin Muslim "Homelands" everywhere(too damn many, IMO) with rotating oligarch despots in charge of each of their sorry-ass, allegedly "Islamic" nations. If and when(other than Turkey, which is borderline)another Muslim nation/ethnic tribe becomes a Democracy. let me know. I'm not gonna hold my breath.....
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I totally agree that coming up with an alternative to oil would be a great way to strike back at greedy Arab nations..And what a better time to rally the people to this idea even if it costs more in the short run...Who is financing this terrorism?We are but buying Arab oil.
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Comrade Commissar Dowding has spoken! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Cabby44:
Mrfish:
Your cynicism is exceeded only by your contempt for the American People. Your tone is borderline Anti-Semitic as well.
well shucks cabby i wouldn't want to be antisemitic in a thread about dirty ragheads.
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Why is any criticizm of US foreign policy towards Israel, especially the huge and disproportionate amount of total US worldwide aid money, immediatly labeled "borders on anti-semetism" by somebody almost every time I have heard such a discussion in my life?
Where are the cries of anti-(fill in blank) racism when people talk of cutting aid to (fill in blank)?
Is it just me or do supporters of Israel in the US play on the Image of past Jewish difficulties and especially the WW2 Genocide, in hope to tie any criticism of Isreal to extremist Jew-Hating acts of the past?
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BTW
The word and ethnic designation "semite" defines both the Jews and the Arabs.
It figures since they are both ethnically/racially from the same area and are very closely related by "blood".
I bet the extremists on both sides dont go around shouting, or even admitting, that fact.
Like most things it seems fights within the "family" are the most bitter.
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Well DAMN me; ain't THIS a wonderful discussion?
FD Ski; thanks for spelling it out so concisely. I was having a hard time with your other posts, but now that I see your train of thought laid out in context, It makes much more sense to me..
Lemme see if I got the gist of this.. We're behaving like blind nationalistic amazinhunks, puppets for the media and politicans,; not worthy of sweat off our great grandpappys balls and certainly not eligible to lay claim the moral highground; not even this time...
Hmmm... seems to me, that since we've diddlyed this planet up so bad, made a hash of every system or problem we've ever touched, earned the undying eminity of the free and enslaved world and are already doin a bang up job of carrying it on to near orbit and space..
Lets just give the Trident's new targeting info... and toast ourselves with our own nukes and give the resta the world a decent break.
;)
Before 20 of you here miscountrue me for a "rag head lover" let me go on record saying that i'm ex miliry, US Citizen, and i agree with current bombing of Astudmuffinanistan. I'm disappointed with it's lack of long term goal, and blind, unbriddled patriotism in my book equals to nationalism.
Damn; why'd yah have to go and say THAT?? (Hangs third rule.. If yer ever in an argument, and it turns out yer right; apologize immediately)
Ok; I love yah too; now lets go blow the hell outta the towel heads, and do our damndest to figure out how were gonna not screw this pooch after the fact.
<S> FD Ski! Damned good reading, and I appreciate the tounge lashing. We... errr, I deserved every bit of it.
I'd still like to shove mao's lil red book up Dowdings bellybutton tho. I promise, given the opportunity; I'd try to avoid being nationalistic about it. :)
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Define fundamentalist and critical mass. I'm quite sure by your definition we should hang Falwell now.
I've got the rope!
Cabby Is there ANYTHING the USA has EVER done right besides elect your idol George W Bush?
Please enlighten us on how YOU in all YOUR wisdom would handle US Foreign Policy in a World full of nutcase right wingers, uneducated "conservative" white trash, brainwashed "conservative" drones, and hypocrite/criminal <Reagan, Bush, Bush>"Republican" leaders?
WTF would YOU do? Tell us Oh Facist One.....
While your at it what is your criteria in labeling people *liberal/leftists*, if that pus filled boil on top of your neck can reason.
My money says you don't have the guts or enough common sense to answer the question.
The only thing you seem to be good for is spewing right wing rhetoric.
LOL Hangtime!
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Man the Raghead lovers come out of the woodwork now :-)
Fd-Ski and co. Why is each of your rhetorts a comparison of what the USA have done? Why should the USA have done ANYTHING. The ragheads should be looking after their own. Saying "we didn't do it but neither did the USA so that makes it ok" is limp-wristed argument.
Example: East Timor turned to toejam recently. NZ and Aussie immediately got involved and sent peace-keepers there. Some good Kiwis are dead now. However, WE CLEANED UP OUR BACKYARD.
My point is what right do the Arabs have to take the moral high ground when they have let their own backyard slip into the toejam in such a big way? What right does a fat Saudi prince have to insult the USA by rationalising the attack by saying the USA should solve the Palestinian crisis when he lets all that crap go by without a care?
Of course the USA looks after its interests. Particularly financial and commercial interests. But why is it these Arabs only get interested when the USA is dropping bombs on terrorists, but couldn't give a flying-f**k when the Taliban are publicly executing a women for learning to read?
Thats the comparison I'm looking at.
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Actually, what caught my eye was the thread title Vulcan.
I like it so much..
Whiney Arab Nations - worse than the French?
I think it deserves an answer.
"NO."
I'm biased. :)
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Vulcan
Thats the problem. The arabs try to "clean up their problems" and the US doenst like the solutions they come to. So then the US intervenes to prop up one against another.
The arabs dont like that.Even the ones that ask for help dont like it.
And those pesky israelies just wont lie down and die like many here seem to wish they would.
Clinton inherits a growing economy and a successful mideast policy from Bush sr.
Bush jr inherits a nightmare from clinton.
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The United States allows its citizens the right to pick and choose which screwups we want to be amazinhunks to. This is unlike Dictatorships where the government tells you to be amazinhunks to specific people.
Does that help explain why USA is the greatest nation of the planet?
Nobody is a saint. Far from it. The USA and our allies are ahead in the race though.
Hans.
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
Actually, what caught my eye was the thread title Vulcan.
I like it so much..
I think it deserves an answer.
"NO."
I'm biased. :)
already noticed ...
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Comrade Commissar Dowding has spoken!
I gave my opinion, like anyone else.
Don't like it? I couldn't give a flying toss-piece, to be frank. But leave out the infantile name calling, if it's at all possible.
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Grunherz wrote:
Why is any criticizm of US foreign policy towards Israel, especially the huge and disproportionate amount of total US worldwide aid money
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Keep in mind after Egypt signed a peace treaty with isreal they started recieving about the same amount of aid as isreal does. The US offered a billion dollars in aid to Palistine if they signed the last peace agreement that gave them 95 percent of what they asked for. They decided riots would be a better corse of action.
As far as this American is concerned we should continue to support the only democracy in the middle east thats has signed any peace agreement.
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ooops spell check alert.. my bad :)