Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Krusty on March 10, 2006, 04:35:33 PM
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I was in a 262 and making attacks on a set of NOE lancs. I make a 2-3o'clock pass and land a large burst squarely (pin point grouping, dead on convergence) in the outboard wing, between the leading edge and trailing edge. 5+ hit bursts of 30mm, saw all the red puffy fireball explosions as I zoomed past 500+mph.
I look back and see there was no damage at all. I come around and make another pass. More hits all over lead bomber's fuselage.
NO DAMAGE.
I come in at 4 oclock, shoot the hell out of the lead bomber, hit his port drone's stabs with 10+ hits.
NO FREAKING DAMAGE.
so far I've landed 100+ 30mm on the lead and at least 20 on each of his drones. I come in from 8 oclock and pound the living S*** out of his port drone and him and ONLY see a small oil leak on the drone. I am going too fast and black out when pulling up (hit the water, gave a proxy kill).
A pal takes up a 262 after I complain about this, and he sees some lancs as well. He makes his attacks and reports that he saw a grop of 4 hit sprites all land on the wingtip and the bomber only lost an aileron. He made several more passes before being badly shot up, and expended a lot more ammo to bring down 2 or 3 of those lancs.
Okay this bs has to stop. It ONLY happens with bombers.
I took up a Ta152 and closed in on a p51D, and at 600 I fired twice, each time firing a single 30mm round. I missed one, but the second blew the pony's tail off.
Back when the new 109s came out I took a G-14 up and landed 5-7 30mm hits all in the same damage area (area of fuselage between wings and stabs) on a lancaster and did no damage. This is not connection related. This is game damage related.
Bombers currently have far more accurate gun control than they historically did. They currently have 3x planes to shoot all at the same con attacking them. They currently all fly at 250-300mph well faster than historical cruise speeds ("k'-hreeew'-zuh? What is that?").
With all of these unhistorical advantages, WHY must they be invulnerable?
I literally landed several hundred 30mm hits from a Me262 on a lancaster (and more on his drones) and didn't get the kill, hell I didn't damage the S.O.B.!!
Bomber damage levels and 30mm -- something is fubared. A short burst of any 20mm gun can rip a bomber wing off, but 5+ 30mm hits all in the same area won't??
PLEASE check the 30mm code and the damage it does to bombers. SOMETHING is not working.
Seems to work fine for fighters! Does not work for bombers!
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Did something similar to that against a stuka in my 262 a couple weeks back.
Made a pass and landed 10 rounds no damage. Make another pass another 10 rounds no damage. I did this for another few passes until on the 6th pass it took damage and went down.
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This is verifiable across accounts, across computers, and has been around through various ISPs, and I think it's safe to say it's a game problem, not an end user problem.
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Krusty, I'm not trying to jerk your chain here really. But if you are going to make that statement, then you are saying youve tried it over and over and proven it beyond any doubt. So where is the proof? Record it. Show that it's something you can repeat on demand. Becuase if it is a "game problem" (which most folks would just call a "bug") then its going to repeat every time. Film your encounters showing this. Get other people to do the same. Get people with different ISPs and so on just like you claim. Get all of them to show it happening. Submit your material.
It's not "safe to say" anything until you have proof in hand to back up your statements.
If you'd like my personal thoughts on the bomber issue, PM me. I'm not going to spread theories I cant prove.
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Films? Not saying it's not true, but would like to see it. If you do have it, I'd definatly send it to HTC.
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I've got films of older ones, like the G-14 hitting a lanc with 5-7 30mm hits. I don't have any films of recent 30mm problems. It's so common place that everybody seems to gloss it over, but they all know about it to some degree or another.
I don't think to run film unless I'm running a mission or really testing something (WGr ranges, etc), so I don't have the recent 262 debacle, and I doubt Rey had his film running when he upped a 262 and found the same thing after I complained.
SoA2, the problem is you can't just up endless 262s to test this out -- it is the most expensive perk plane in the game! I've landed dozens of 30mm hits on lancs and b24s before from 109K-4s, ta152s, and the like, and the bombers received little to no damage. This has happened many many many times. Yet one single hit on any fighter and you see results. It must be a bomber damage issue, where the 30mm aren't registering proper damage.
I'll film every 30mm sortie I get from now on, but it's too much of a PITA to sort through films and screen them to film every sortie.
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It's easy. Bombers are tough and those wussy little 51's are not.:lol
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Gear, the 30mm is far far more powerful than the 20mm, yet a few 20mm rounds can de-wing a bomber or set it on fire, or make it lose lots of parts.
A 30mm is just over 3x the average hitting power of the 20mm rounds in this game (I averaged them out using scJazz's test results), and yet dozens of repeated, close-proximity 30mm hits don't equal even 1-2 20mm hits. This is damage that should be on the order of 50x the damage but a mere fraction of the effect.
It's not a matter of difference between planes (p51 vs lanc) because on fighters the 20mmvs30mm damage is consistent, on bombers it is not.
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What he said.
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At first I admit I thought Krusty was full of it, but the last two days flying jets I have hit planes right behind the cockpit or wingroot and did zero damage to them. The worst was a ki84 I hit dead center on his tail section, saw the 30mm hit sprite, yet NOTHING fell off his plane. I could tell because I shot from 150 yards and flew under him. He flew off and I guess landed because I never got a kill or assist credit.
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I haven't been flying much this month, but I have noticed way more rubber taters than usual. GRR. :t
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I've not noticed any "rubber bullet" effects with normal rounds, I have only experienced it with 30mm rounds. I don't fly the Yak9T enough to know if it's a problem with the 37mm round or not.
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It don't matter what type of bomber I fly a 7.62 round dewings it :lol
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Krusty, try reading Wrag's post on this topic.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172780
I think there's more to your 30mm issue than that, but its on the right track.
Think back also a few months ago there was a big debate over lag from buff pilots jumping from plane to plane.
You have 3 airplanes there, one connection. Am I getting through to you here? Do you have the same problem attacking a single bomber?
Maybe you cant do it over and over with 262's but you can with 109K's.
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i got film of me hitting a lancaster formation with a 109k, hitting it with 30mm. they didnt go down or smoke, seen a few chunks fly off but that it. didnt go down till somebody else came and finished htem off. i made pass or two with mg after all taters gone. dont know how to post film, if somebody wants to see it email me...
jjgeasey@gmail.com
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The only problem I have with 30mm's is actually hitting something with it. Every time I actually HIT something, it dies.
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no film of it but this evening I hit a 190 with a manned feild gun - saw hit, saw tha cannon hit effect...dude kept on zooming aorund - no big deal...lol :)
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Okay, first off, I saw wrag's post. His post is geared towards folks that can't hit any type of gun. I've mentioned several times that only 30mm do this, 20mms and all other guns hit just fine.
Having said that, I STILL used FS auto start and STILL got the BS 30mm hits. In fact, when I posted this, mentioning a 262 sortie followed by a 152 sortie, I was using FS Autostart and it didn't help at all.
It's not my end, it's everybody's end.
Brauno and I did a test, him in 262 vs my lancs in MA, and me in 109k4 vs his lancs right after.
His 262 reported very few hits to make a drone go pop. It was ridiculously lethal, so much so that I suspect something was up with the arena. He popped one drone so fast he only saw 1 sprite. He popped the second drone in 3 hit sprites, 1 was on the tail and 1 was on the wingtip, and the drone just instantly went POP. He then set my lead on fire in just 1-2 hits (it was about 3 but one hit wing, I saw the damage, so that's a different damage area).
Then I attacked him. I hit one drone with just 2 hits and POP! I wasn't even near the cockpit. I then attacked the next drone and POP! I wasn't even near the cockpit! It was a low six attack! WTF?? Instant lanc death tonight in MA?
I'll review the films we rolled during this test, but I can't accept them as of yet because they are too abnormal.
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
no film of it but this evening I hit a 190 with a manned feild gun - saw hit, saw tha cannon hit effect...dude kept on zooming aorund - no big deal...lol :)
EXACTLY the problem I'm seeing. Hits. Hits registering no less. Then no damage.
EDIT: Either it's a damage problem or it's a false hit register problem, either way it needs to be fixed!
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I haven't been in range of manned ack lately, but the last two tours I was getting no-ping popped if I so much as LOOKED at the manned guns.
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Sorry Saxman. Last tour I had over 570 kills in manned ack.....this month planes are a lot harder to hit due to the mini-warps of about 200 feet when they come into prime range. Can't wait for the server to be moved back.
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I too have had these problems with lanc's.You shoot the hell out of them and hardly nothing.If i had a way to post it i would,for i have a film of myself in a 109-G-2 and it takes all kinds of shots with hardly any damage.
I have noticed this same problem with the Hurri-MkII-C.
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(http://users.kymp.net/p404508a/262.gif)
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yes, of course we're all a bunch of luftwhiners. there is nothing wrong with any luft playthings. nice film mersu, thanks for posting that.
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I flew a 262 yesterday (3-10) and took down 8 buffs on one sortie with the 30's...I havnt seen any problem on this end
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I am not one to complain, but lancs are harder to kill.
I can usually take out all 3 in a 163, but not so in the past few weeks.
Just my 2 cents.
Reo
"The few, the few, the MAW"
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Hrm... this is odd... I had a chance to whip up on Author65 (he just keeps reupping bombers for the same field over and over and over, usually milk running so gives you no opposition if you want to shoot him down) so I took up 109s with 30mm, and fired just the 30mm guns.
B26s -- tough, but land hits in the same area and you see damage
B-24s -- not as tough as B26s, easily damaged with 30mm
Lancaster -- head on, fired 12+ 30mm rounds directly into its nose, forward belly and 1 wing root and no damage. Not even an oil or gas leak, nothing, nada zip.
Got all of these on film, too.
Reviewed the lanc film to see exactly how bad I missed -- I didn't miss at all. I pounded him like a meat tenderizer does meat, and he didn't take any damage. A 190a8 finished him off and I got the kill (meaning the server recognized my hits, they were valid hits, but it also means my hits didn't do any damage to a plane they should have incinerated).
EDIT: actually I reviewed some more film.. THe b26s are too tough... It takes upwards of 10 rounds landing to do anything. I made a high speed pass across one's 2-3 oclock and landed a dozen hit sprites, and I think the only damage he got was an oil leak. I ended up finishing him off in another pass, but he should have popped instantly in the first.
The b24s took no damage other than fireballs, and I let them burn up instead of wasting ammo, aside from that they took quite a few rounds wihtout losing ailerons, flaps, or anything. Just caught on fire, nothing else.
EDIT 2: more review of same films... B26s are either experiencing the lancaster problem or are modeled as the toughest plane in the game. While not as pronounced as the lancaster, it takes a lot of 30mm before showing any signs of damage. The B24s I mentioned: one of them DID get a gas leak in the outer wing, as well as get set on fire, but the other did not. I popped the lead in a HO with lots of hits, but can't count that due to instant pilot kill.
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From what I've seen it's not so much a 30mm thing as it is a lanc thing. I have hit Lancs with round after round of 37mm from my 9T and they just lose ailerons or elevators. If I hit any other bomber with the same rounds it dies.
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Actually, I think the B24 has a little of the same problem. The only thing with the B24 is that it lights up like a zippo, so you wait and it will eventually burn itself out, but that doesn't mean it sustained any major damage, it only got a fire.
I upped a 163 the past week to take on a set of 30k b17s on a HQ run (how the hell they got up there I'll never know!!) and I ended up landing many MANY rounds on them before killing them. I expended just about all my ammo on 3 simple bombers -- something that rarely happens.
Lancs have it worst. B26s perhaps second worst, but b17s and b24s also have this problem.
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Krusty....no major damage? Fire is a terminal condition.
The B-24's have become flying Shermans. The Germans called the Sherman Tank a "Matchstick Tank". One hit and its a fireball. Same thing with the 24s. I rarely have one destroyed from pure firepower. However, I am so tired of losing a formation of 24s to a single P-51B (B...as in BOY) with only a few 50 cal hits on the wing.
It takes about 3 .50 Cal hits to set the thing ablaze. Then the 51 climbs and all I can do is watch my b*tch burn. Those fire extingquisher buttons are just for show in the cockpit. No matter how hard you click em...they just don't work.
When I loose a bird...and the 51 is down for a second pass....whooosh...a couple of hits and flames. Repeat for number 3.
24's burn quicker than a Kate, Kite or Zero in this game. But...sounds like I'm going to change to those big ugly cant-climb-worth-***** lancs. ;-)
I just hate the thought of no belly guns ;-)
Softail
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Then again the 50 cal can desintegrate anything within 800 yards and turn it into
confetti with its pilot wounding rounds of justice.
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You people who talk watermelon about 50 cals need to read up and do your homework on ballistics and trajectory concerning the 50 cal round. The bullet itself doesnt even begin to "Settle Down" and fly true until it passes 600 yards. Once past that it acts like a missile and carries a watermelon load of energy right up until it basicly falls out of the air due to lack of velocity.
Seriously... Stop whining so much about 50 cals and the damage they do at long distances. THAT is what they were DESIGNED to do. If you dont think so, do a little research. Neo Nazi AH whiners.
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The bullet itself doesnt even begin to "Settle Down" and fly true until it passes 600 yards.
I have fired the 50 Cal. and no matter what range you are at wether it's 600 yards away or 1000 the 50 Cal. is no joke.I have authentic gun cam footage that clearly shows the power of the 50 Cal. at close range and at long range and this game is no where even close to the real deal.They should just make the 50 Cal. have it's own lethality setting,currently it is wrapped up "soft" lethality and there is nothing soft about a 50 Cal.
Honestly,i have turned up the soft lethality setting in my H2H room before.I believe the default setting is 1.0 but i am not for sure,i turned it up while running the china map P-40-B's and P-51 B's Vs. A6m,N1K,Ki-61.When i got the setting just right you could tell because it matched the real life gun footage i have,maybe 6 good hits and those jap planes were a memory.
Maybe creating a seperate 50 Cal. setting would settle the 50 Cal. discussion once and for all,just as simple as making it daytime only and no fuel too pork!
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Going back to the reply about B24s... Considering that you land several 30mms in one spot in order to just get a flame, there is almost no damage done. When you land enough hits to blow a wing off, but you only get a fire, that's "almost no damage" -- you only get the fire. Yes, while the fire is terminal and gets the job done, it still remains that the wing with the fire (or the fuselage) absorbed enough rounds to blow it off, not just set it on fire.
Hypothetically, that is.
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Originally posted by Grits
The only problem I have with 30mm's is actually hitting something with it. Every time I actually HIT something, it dies.
I am with grits on this - i never have issues shooting bombers with taters...ujnless i run into them or somethgin stupid...but thats a PEBKAC thing...
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I'd vote for a separate lethality setting for the US .50cal. It ain't no Hispano, but it doesn't appear nearly as lethal as the footage I've seen either. There's a reason the damn thing stayed in service so long - long after economic factors were a concern.
I think there is a general lethality issue going on. I don't know what it's related to, but I suspect muzzle velocity and/or network issues are involved. Especially the latter - which may feedback into MV (i.e. longer time of flight accentuates the latency problem).
It'd be less of a concern if it affected everyone the same way; but it doesn't.
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I've been flying the 110g lately. No issues with the 30mm, but being used to the ballistics of the Hispano 20mm the German 20mm has a very short reach. Deflection shots from 400-600 yds are much more difficult.