Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Billy Joe Bob on March 11, 2006, 10:59:46 PM
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i like the P-215 it is a cool plane. i saw it first in Heroes of the Pacific.
it has 8, yes 8, 30 mm cannons in the nose, 2 20mm cannons in the tail, 14 rockets, and
(http://www.luft46.com/aoart/ao215-1.jpg)
(http://www.luft46.com/aoart/ao215-2.jpg)
the Boulton Paul Defiant
it looks like a hurricane and an anti aircraft gun bred together
(http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/defiantiph_6.jpg)
(http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/uk/boulton_paul/defiant/Mk1%20Defiant.jpg)
the JM2 (or was it J2M ?) shinden. another cool fighter
(http://gunsight.jp/a/image2/sinden-500.jpg)
(http://www.luft46.com/aoart/aop75-2.jpg)
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Ahhh.. the Defiant... Had they simply mounted a single 20mm in the rear and a pair in the wings, or used a flex mount or something to cut down on weight... tsk tsk... It could have had such potential!
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The Defiant was an idea, a little bit similar to the scrage musik later on.
But in it's time and for it's size and armament it was a waste of crew and a Merlin...
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That's not a J2M. The J2M was the "Jack" high-altitude interceptor, which was a very traditional-looking aircraft.
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Hi Krusty,
>Ahhh.. the Defiant... Had they simply mounted a single 20mm in the rear and a pair in the wings, or used a flex mount or something to cut down on weight...
Or they could simply have added the usual forward-firing guns, and then thrown out the turret and replaced it with a big fuel tank.
On the other hand, what good is a Hurricane that can go to Berlin and back?
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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How about a radial engined 109 with a bubble canopy?
Bf109-V21
(http://fiches.fra.free.fr/img/versions/V/bf109v21.jpg)
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That was a one-off prototype, never even really serious.
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Hehe...This:
"On the other hand, what good is a Hurricane that can go to Berlin and back?"
In 1941 or so, a Hurry who could do that, say alone a Spitty, would have been very well "good"....
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oh thanks saxman. i always get that mixed up>.<
on heroes of the pacific the j2m was right before the shinden on the japanese plane select.
the Randy....its not really strange or experimental.... its just funny looking
(http://www.enter.net/~rocketeer/randydrwng.jpg)
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this german aircraft is armed with infantry-issue Panzerfaust AT rockets.
(http://www.worldwar2aces.com/antitank_aircraft.jpg)
Bf-109 TL
(http://www.luft46.com/mess/3bm109tl.jpg)
Ta-283
(http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-1.jpg)
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Looks like an Arado 79? with the panzerfausts on it. You would need one crazy pilot to try and kill tanks with that thing!!:O
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Me thinks that it's a Bu 181 Bestman (the plane above with AT rockets).
gripen
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Didn't the Germans have a jet or rocket powered by coal? I remember seeing a model of one somewhere.
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Looks like a bf108 with panzerfausts on it.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Looks like a bf108 with panzerfausts on it.
that was my first thought too.
Another oddity for you all: -
(http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/books/germany_secret_weapons_wwii/ju_287_01.jpg)
(http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/books/germany_secret_weapons_wwii/ju_287_02.jpg)
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Hi Krusty,
>Looks like a bf108 with panzerfausts on it.
It's a Bücker Bu 181. Operationally, it was tyically flown with only one Panzerfaust per wing because (if I remember a recent article correctly) the upper one tended to burn the fabric on the horizontal tail.
Not that they saw much operational use ... one squadron, though, made an attack on an Luftwaffe airfield already taken over by the Americans to destroy the German aircraft parked there.
I'd like to read the American report on this.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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the JM2 (or was it J2M ?) shinden. another cool fighter
(http://gunsight.jp/a/image2/sinden-500.jpg)[/B]
That is a J7W1 Shiden. It was just entering production (with essentially no flight testing at all beyond one flight) when the nukes ended the war.
Had either two 20mm and two 30mm cannon or four 30mm cannon in the nose and a hoped for 450+mph, but given Japanese circumstances at that time I think that fanciful at best.
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To get back at the Boulton Paul Defiant, it was a good idea. It fooled the Luftwaffe at it's first missions.
The Luftwaffe pilots thought it'd be a fighter (thus an easy shot from the rear) They must've been quite surprised when 4 x .303's were shooting back!
After their experience with the Defiant, the Luftwaffe started attacking the Defiants from the fronts and below.
After that it was a sitting duck...
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Originally posted by frank3
To get back at the Boulton Paul Defiant, it was a good idea. It fooled the Luftwaffe at it's first missions.
The Luftwaffe pilots thought it'd be a fighter (thus an easy shot from the rear) They must've been quite surprised when 4 x .303's were shooting back!
After their experience with the Defiant, the Luftwaffe started attacking the Defiants from the fronts and below.
After that it was a sitting duck...
The first squadron to go into combat with it scored 17 kills on their first day as I recall.
It went rapidly downhill from there.
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I always loved the idea. As a kid I never understood why they didn't do that on all planes. Of course issues like, drag, weight and available power were unknown to me then :D
It is my favourite 'odd one out' plane.
For those who know the Blackburn Skua (British early war dive bomber and smurfy at that), this had a turreted sister, the Roc. Performance was so poor that most (all?) of them were converted into target tugs.
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a similar thing happened with the Grumman Avenger. japanese pilots thought that the planes were a new heavy fighter and attacked it from the high six, and right into a ma duce.
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I thought the first use of the Avenger (I believe it's first versions were called Devestators?) resulted in the loss of all 6 aircraft on their torpedo-run?
Some pics of the Blackburn Skua;
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/2402.jpg)
(http://freespace.virgin.net/john.dell/under.jpg)
(http://www.leodis.org/imagesLeodis/screen/70/2004116_93763370.jpg)
It was one ugly bastard!
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Found another pic supporting Furball's input. It's a Heinkel He-177.
(http://www.ww2guide.com/ju287.jpg)
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That is the Junkers Ju 287 V1 (in a case you are not joking...). Some parts were from He 177.
gripen
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Originally posted by frank3
I thought the first use of the Avenger (I believe it's first versions were called Devestators?) resulted in the loss of all 6 aircraft on their torpedo-run?
The Avenger and the Devastator were 2 different a/c. The Avenger was a Grumman a/c and the Devastaor was as a Douglas a/c(see pic).
(http://www.ww2guide.com/tbd.jpg)
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Ah, thanks for that. Didn't know they were different!
Originally posted by gripen
That is the Junkers Ju 287 V1 (in a case you are not joking...). Some parts were from He 177.
gripen
Oops! I thought it'd be a He-177 because of it's nose, it's quite similar
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(http://static.flickr.com/39/88322889_a5d4e6e456.jpg)
(http://static.flickr.com/27/88322887_1af2e04de8.jpg)
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what the hell is that thing in the last pic :eek:
and can someone find a pic of this russian one ramjet prop hybrid fighter?
it had a pusher prop i think like the shinden and it had 2 ramjets on the wings.
there is also a german VTOL plane that looked like a rocket called like trifuegel or something like that (i cant spell german ok i spelled it like it sounds) the trifuegel had 3 ramjets that were started up with rockets on the end of 3 wings that spun around the middle of the plane.
and lastly the soviet flying submarine. it was a sea plane that carried 2 torpedoes under the fueselage. the point of having a flying sub was to go over the sub nets and mines then land and submerge and commence wreaking havoc. it never left the drawing board.
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http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap34.htm
Totally baddddddd Arrrrssssssseeeeeee..........
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Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob
what the hell is that thing in the last pic :eek:
Dual He111 according to the picture name
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Real name: He111Z (Zwillig). Z was used when planes were doubled like that. There was a 109Z based off the 109G, there were plans for a Do335Z, and several other "Zwillig" planes.
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Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob
...
there is also a german VTOL plane that looked like a rocket called like trifuegel or something like that (i cant spell german ok i spelled it like it sounds) the trifuegel had 3 ramjets that were started up with rockets on the end of 3 wings that spun around the middle of the plane.
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You mean this:
(http://www.gonzoville.com/share/files/1/Motivators/luftwhiner.jpg)
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:rofl
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IIRC, about 12 He 111Zs were built, including prototypes. Two of them were accounted for by 418 Squadron Mossies - one in the air near Dole (going from memory) and another on the ground at St. Yan.
The first aircraft is covered on Dan Gilberti's Histavia site, on the 1944 crash page. Includes a still from a guncam aboard one of the Mossies.
The Australian War Memorial site also, last time I looked, had both the guncam and an interview with the pilot concerned, though I've never ordered it.
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lol nice pic.
i cant find a pic of this and i have NO IDEA how to spell it at all but it was a german HE 111 with a 5 round clip automatic 37 mm tank busting gun in the nose. YES i know the stuka had 2 37 mms but this thing is definately not a stuka. i first saw it on a WWII mod for command and conquer generals called "Blitzkrieg II" the plane was something along the lines like "panzerknacker" like i said no idea how to spell it.
any help?
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(http://www.anft.net/f-14/grumman-xf5f1.jpg)
I always have to add the XF5F to the mix on these threads. I love that plane.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob
lol nice pic.
i cant find a pic of this and i have NO IDEA how to spell it at all but it was a german HE 111 with a 5 round clip automatic 37 mm tank busting gun in the nose. YES i know the stuka had 2 37 mms but this thing is definately not a stuka. i first saw it on a WWII mod for command and conquer generals called "Blitzkrieg II" the plane was something along the lines like "panzerknacker" like i said no idea how to spell it.
any help?
HS 129 Panzerknacker
(http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~tc4y-kk/airimage/img2/hs129_04.jpg)
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Originally posted by Krusty
Real name: He111Z (Zwillig). Z was used when planes were doubled like that. There was a 109Z based off the 109G, there were plans for a Do335Z, and several other "Zwillig" planes.
It's 'Zwilling', not 'Zwillig'. Simply means twin. Not as in twin engined of course but as in identical twins. Think of the twin Mustang, identical concept.
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Hi,
this is one of the more interesting(also somewhat ugly) planes.
(http://www.modellbahnecke.de/bilder/huma/2400359.jpg)
http://www.kheichhorn.de/html/body_messerschmitt_p_1101.html
Also thisone i consider as interesting and ugly.
(http://www.prop.at/testber/pic_2003/ta183_01.jpg)
http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-i.html
Greetings,
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Originally posted by Furball
HS 129 Panzerknacker
(http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~tc4y-kk/airimage/img2/hs129_04.jpg)
Thats kind of a cool looking aircraft. Wonder what the gadget is on the glare shield.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Thats kind of a cool looking aircraft. Wonder what the gadget is on the glare shield.
It's actually just the gunsight. They wanted to make the aircraft as small as possible.
Needless to say, the cockpit got smaller, thus more convined.
It was so small, a gunsight didn't fit IN the cockpit, so they placed it outside :)
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it also had some of the engine dials on the nacelles because it was so cramped. IIRC it was to make the frontal profile as small as possible.
it was very unpopular with pilots.
(http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/Hs129-2s.jpg)
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I like the Hurri converted with aa guns
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(http://www.bugattirevue.com/revue3/skybug2.jpg)
(http://www.bugattirevue.com/revue3/skybug.jpg)
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(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/2909L.jpg)
Beech XA-38 Grizzly.... Powered by two CW R3350 engines, 75mm cannon, two remote turrets... 376 mph at restricted boost, reported to attain 404 mph in WEP. Only two built. End of war meant end of XA-38 development.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Furball
it also had some of the engine dials on the nacelles because it was so cramped. IIRC it was to make the frontal profile as small as possible.
it was very unpopular with pilots.
All reports I've seen said it was just a miserable bird to fly. Slow, unresponsive, under-powered.
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wow there are so many projects in wwII... i woonder what kind of technology there would have been if the war had gone on till '46? the grizzly looks cool:aok
we have the trifugel and the panzerknacker but where is that russian ramjet prop hybrid?
hey indy what kind of plane is that?
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Originally posted by Widewing
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/2909L.jpg)
Beech XA-38 Grizzly.... Powered by two CW R3350 engines, 75mm cannon, two remote turrets... 376 mph at restricted boost, reported to attain 404 mph in WEP. Only two built. End of war meant end of XA-38 development.
My regards,
Widewing
This is such an amazingly outdated design for a 1945 US prototype.
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Ah... Bugatti again; strange indeed but IMHO not ugly.
gripen
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Hi Billy,
>we have the trifugel and the panzerknacker but where is that russian ramjet prop hybrid?
It's "Triebflügel" = 'drive wing'.
The Russian type you're thinking off probably is the MiG I-250, but it's really powered by a special jet engine with the compressor driven by a piston engine instead of a turbine. I believe this is called a "thermojet" engine. As the piston engine also drove the propeller, you're right it was a hybrid.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
This is such an amazingly outdated design for a 1945 US prototype.
The design was ordered in 1943 specifically for tank busting and anti-shipping. It's first flight was in 1944.
While it appears superficially to be a dated design, it really wasn't at all. Actually, it was remarkably innovative in many respects.
Engine selection: Choosing a pair of the big R-3350 engines meant that the aircraft would have tremendous power, 4,600 hp with restricted boost (2,600 rpm @ 45 in/hg), 5,200 hp at full factory rated power (2,800 rpm @ 48 in/hg). Documents describing the initial factory testing of the XA-38 were most recently located in the Walter H. and Olive Ann Beech Collection, which is currently in the custody of the Wichita State University library. Additional AAF test data is stored on microfilm in the National Archives.
Standard gross weight, less external stores was just over 31,000 pounds. This provided a wing loading on par with most late-war fighters. The A-38 employed clever slotted flaps that effectively increased wing area by 20% when fully deployed.
The aircraft was of modular construction, consisting of four major sub-assemblies, plus the weapons module.
Another unique feature allowed for the entire nose mounted weapons package to be removed and replaced in about two hours. The entire nose module of the aircraft was unbolted and could be replaced with various gun packages, including six 20mm cannon or eight .50 caliber Brownings. This would have allowed the aircraft to be tailored for specific missions to a degree not previously seen in the USAAF.
Performance was considerably better than that of the A-26. I have never seen a climb chart for the XA-38, but I have seen pilot comments from the Eglin tests. One pilot stated that it took just over two minutes to reach 5,000 feet from brake release. That should put the XA-38 in the area of 3,000 fpm, again restricting MAP to 45".
A P-47D was used as a chase plane during some of the flight testing. Pilots reported that the XA-38 proved a better climber and was much faster than the Jug below 10,000 feet. A glimpse of this can be found on the USAF Museum site, where they state, "Every means possible was employed to decrease drag, including flush riveting of all exposed skin surfaces. A striking demonstration of the resultant speed was furnished the Army when it assigned one of its fastest fighters to pace the XA-38 for speed calibration tests and found the Beechcraft outdistancing the fighter. "
Also stated is the following: "The Beechcraft Model 28 combined the size of a medium bomber with the speed of the fastest propeller driven fighters of the day. It was highly maneuverable and could take off and land in an area considerably smaller than needed by other airplanes of a comparable size." Pilots at Eglin reported that the XA-38 "turned much tighter circles than the P-38 or P-47."
Overall, the AAF was extremely pleased with the XA-38. However, in selecting the R-3350 engines, Beech found itself with a major problem of availability. Virtually all R-3350 production capacity was earmarked for B-29 production, which had a far greater priority than another medium attack plane. Beech considered a redesign to switch over to the P&W R-2800 C series engine, but the AAF would not allocate the addition funds to finance the change simply because the bulk of production capacity for these engines was assigned to P-47N and F4U-4 production. Moreover, it was recognized that this redesign would push back development at least 9 months, and probably a full year. Both XA-38 prototypes lived out their short lives as test mules. However, they were very highly regarded by the test pilots who flew them.
If we look at the XA-38 within the context of its intended mission, we would see that the XA-38's role was similar to that of the HS 129. Indeed, the XA-38 was to the HS 129 what the P-47M was to the Seversky P-35.
My regards,
Widewing
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Hi Widewing,
>If we look at the XA-38 within the context of its intended mission, we would see that the XA-38's role was similar to that of the HS 129.
Hm, unless it carried heavy armour, which from a quick web search appears not to have been the case, it was not actually in the same class as the Hs 129 but rather in the class of the Mosquito. The XA-38 also employed the latest, most powerful engines that were available (or could have been available, if they hadn't been required for more important projects), while the Hs 129 relied on obsolescent engines "off the French shelf".
>Indeed, the XA-38 was to the HS 129 what the P-47M was to the Seversky P-35.
I could as well claim that the Hs 129 was to the Westland Lysander what the A-10 was to the O-1, but I consider this type of comparison a bit odd :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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the westland P12 beach-strafing aircraft.
(http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/flying/assets/p12.jpg)
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what a completly smurfy plane
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Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob
hey indy what kind of plane is that?
Somebody said it, Bugatti. I checked out the version some company made for FS2004... had to be horrendously over modeled. Climbed at 6k fpm past 40k, 400+ mph, and turned like a Spit. You'd think the name Bugatti meant it could defy phsyics.
Now, alot of people here will get their panties in a bunch if you post stuff from Luft46... but this looks like the thread for it, and I dig asymmetrical aircraft :)
(http://www.luft46.com/bv/3bb179.jpg)
(http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp-111.gif)
(http://www.luft46.com/bv/3bb237.jpg)
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The Bugatti was IMHO a beautifull aircraft, but it never flew. Below is one captured from FMS simulator (click picture to see larger image).
gripen
(http://img147.potato.com/loc271/th_19432_FMS_Bugatti.jpg) (http://img147.potato.com/img.php?loc=loc271&image=19432_FMS_Bugatti.jpg)
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someone should try to find a Bf-109 "zwilling"... it was 2 109F airframes welded together at the wing and tail. A p-38 knockoff, lol :p
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Here's one way to get more speed out of your B17.
This photo was undated and unlabeled. It is a B-17 with a turbine engine installed in the nose. My guess it they were testing the turbine engine and needed a large airframe like the B-17s. They probably took off and landed using the traditional four engines as the primary power. Once at altitude, they engaged the turbine engine and experimented to determine performance characteristics.
(http://www.de220.com/Strange%20Stuff/TEST-80G419784.jpg)
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As you can see here, this is the reason IJN planes burn so easy.:lol
(http://www.de220.com/Strange%20Stuff/DECOY-80G313344.jpg)
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As I'm in it, yet another sleek racer from late thirties as captured from FMS.
gripen
(http://img21.potato.com/loc167/th_68150_FMS_Me209.jpg) (http://img21.potato.com/img.php?loc=loc167&image=68150_FMS_Me209.jpg)
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Yet another strange German type captured from FMS.
gripen
(http://img140.potato.com/loc260/th_08120_FMS_LippischDM_1.jpg) (http://img140.potato.com/img.php?loc=loc260&image=08120_FMS_LippischDM_1.jpg)
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Originally posted by indy007
Somebody said it, Bugatti. I checked out the version some company made for FS2004... had to be horrendously over modeled. Climbed at 6k fpm past 40k, 400+ mph, and turned like a Spit. You'd think the name Bugatti meant it could defy phsyics.
Now, alot of people here will get their panties in a bunch if you post stuff from Luft46... but this looks like the thread for it, and I dig asymmetrical aircraft :)
(http://www.luft46.com/bv/3bb179.jpg)
(http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp-111.gif)
(http://www.luft46.com/bv/3bb237.jpg)
that thing looks like the doppleganger from crimson skies 2