Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rolex on March 12, 2006, 03:20:59 AM
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I think it's about time for the US to start thinking seriously about building these:
(http://tech-rep.org/images/a_view.jpg)
as alternatives to regional airlines. This model travels at ~250 mph (413 kph) max speed and a service speed of ~225 mph (360 kph).
The benefits are easy to count off:
- Provides a growth infrastructure investment benefitting construction and manufacturing industries. Station and track construction builds value for surrounding areas.
- Provides alternatives to regional airline and airport congestion.
- More economical and comfortable. Trains carry ~500 people without the crush of airline seating. No turbulence.
- Drivers and crew require less costly training.
- For 200-400 mile trips, this would be faster than airline travel. For 200 to 250 mile trips (i.e. Dallas-Houston or Atlanta-Nashville) passengers would be at destination in about same time it takes to checkin and get through airport security at departing airport.
- Electrical demand could be derived from natural gas (the US has substantial supplies) or nuclear power. Even coal fired generation produces less air pollutants than burning jet fuel since generation uses scrubbers. Cleaner travel per person/mile.
Anyway, don't you think it's about time rail travel in the US became alot classier and convenient?
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I saw a program on discovery awhile back and i belive they are planning to build some high speed lines. I belive it was to Florida from some place.
Trains are the future of alot of passenger transport for sure.
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I don't see why not, looks like fun. And hell, all the good things you listed and no bad things, you've got me wrapped around your finger! BULLET TRAINS FOR THE FUTURE!
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im suprised you havent done it already. europe and japan have had fast trains like that for a long time
or how about a maglev? 300+ mph
http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/MagShang.html
(http://www.monorails.org/webpix%202/Shang01.jpg)
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I'm sure the people who live near the tracks just LOVE the sound it makes. :lol
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Most of our railroads want nothing to do with passengers. They actively and deliberately destroyed their own passenger services back in the 60's, and fight it to this day. Even freight trains of nonperishable goods often receive higher traffic priority than Amtrak trains. Exceptions exist, especially in the northeast corridor, but generally speaking passenger rail is pretty much dead in the USA with little prospect of making a large-scale comeback.
Yes, it's a shame. The entire story of the US railroad industry since the end of WW2 has been a nonstop shame, characterized by corporate mismanagement and public antipathy. The success stories are few, and the industry is still somewhat weak overall despite an incredible number of mergers and bankruptcies.
J_A_B
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Problems:
A) You don't pay rent on the land you fly over. Currently, Amtrak is required to rent the land its tracks go over. The US Government at many levels prefers to use eminent domain to build shopping centers in blighted areas, not to help common transport. So supercool trains might be nice, but if they are forced to pay a rent to for the land they are forced to cross, you'll never see competitive pricing.
B) Privatized train companies just don't work. Compare British Rail systems before and after Maggy broke them up. You have to be a diehard fiscal conservative = ("Liberal" in the British sense) to want to argue this is a good thing. And the same thing is happening elsewhere.
C)Europe and Japan have extremely high population densities. Where I am now (Switzerland), there are 2 cities with > 1 million people and 2 with > 500,000 within 100 miles. And in between there are plenty of other cities in the 100-250k range. Compare that to the US, where, outside of the Eastern seaboard (Where Amtrak can't get the real-estate to build proper High-Speed Trains), things are _really_ spread out.
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bad points:
1)i wonder what a 300mph train wreck looks like.
2)no time to sleep between stations.
3)oversleeping for an hour and being 300 miles further than you want to be.
4)difficult for train spotters to get a clear snap shot of, unless stationary.
5) train drivers become smug, start wearing aviator glasses and running around all day thinking they are top racing drivers.
6) pouring flouresant paint off a low brinde as they motor past beneath you might not give the same colourfull and artistic visuals as on regular 70mph trains.
good points:
what rolex said.
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bomb bait
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Electric trains can be alot more enviromentaly friendly than planes can ever be, and will be alot cheaper to operate when there is a gas crisis. We all know that oil will only be more expencive in the future.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
1)i wonder what a 300mph train wreck looks like.
you talking about the maglev?
iirc it is almost impossible for them to crash. the train is actually wrapped around the track so it cannot physically come off, the rail works by charging magnets so it is impossible for trains to be within a certain distance of one another.
besides, im sure it is no worse than a 600mph airliner crash
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And a 300mph planewreck aint much better..
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Originally posted by Rolex
I think it's about time for the US to start thinking seriously about building these:
I wonder why nobody build something earlier. In germany we have our
ICE now in the 3rd generation, it can drive up to 205mph. But railways
ready for this speed are rare :/
ICE 3
(http://www.aichberger.de/_images/42-die-bahn/1-42a-372x228.jpg)
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Furball: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?
Rolex: Monorail!
Furball: What's it called?
Nirvana: Monorail!
Furball: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Batstink: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Furball: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Batstink: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Furball: Not on your life, my clown dressed friend.
Nilsen: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Furball: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Seagoon: Were you sent here by the devil?
Furball: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
MrRipley: The ring came off my pudding can.
Furball: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's America's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Furball: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Furball: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
[big finish]
Monorail!
[all end]
Saw: Mono... D'oh!
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Rofl Furby! :D
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I used the German rail system when going from Berlin to Potsdam in December. Hopped on one of those double decked regional expresses - smoothest train ride I've ever taken and it was dirt cheap.
Shame British rail sucks so comprehensively. And we invented the bloody thing...
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:rofl
furball you suck.
the simpsons 'monorail' episode was so much better.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I used the German rail system when going from Berlin to Potsdam in December. Hopped on one of those double decked regional expresses - smoothest train ride I've ever taken and it was dirt cheap.
Shame British rail sucks so comprehensively. And we invented the bloody thing...
isnt that always the way??? :D
we invent stuff so that we can suck at it lol
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Well Europe & japan both ahead of us on this one for 3 reasons.
Population density, combined with higher fuel costs, and fewer people owning cars.
While its a cool Idea, frankly I don't see it working here.
Over there everyone rides the train/mass transit.
I just don't see it paying off over here.
Distances are greater, and the demand is less.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I used the German rail system when going from Berlin to Potsdam in December. Hopped on one of those double decked regional expresses - smoothest train ride I've ever taken and it was dirt cheap.
Shame British rail sucks so comprehensively. And we invented the bloody thing...
The UK tracks are terrible and I think that is the main reason why a faster train network has not been developed there. Even the Eurostar trains goes painstakingly slow whilst it is in England. :( It's a shame that during the 50s and 60s many tracks were dug up with little foresight for the future. Train transport would be so useful if ran and supported correctly (and one that ran on time).
I agree that the German trains are really quiet & smooth. I live next to an electric S-Bahn station (surburban/city train) and you can't even hear it, even when you're outside you sometimes don't even hear it. Back in the UK I could hear the trains from over a mile away in the evenings (because of the crap tracks)! lol
@Gh0stFT, I haven't been on an ICE train yet, but do they all have displays in the seats like the one below or is that just 1st Class?
(http://www.finnmoller.dk/rail-de/db_ice_02.jpg)
(http://transweb.sjsu.edu/publications/High-SpeedRail-8.gif)
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Mono Duh! :D
Sorry, too many werds fer me!
I took the Shinkansen twice in Japan, but cannot comment on it as I fell asleep twice right after getting in.
My 1 ¥
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you guys missed some of the bad points...
since they will go fast enough to kill everyon on them and then some...
they will be great targets.. you will have to park half a mile from the station and then walk in so that you won't be able to make a car bomb to blow up the station.... you will have to be strip searched before you get on so be sure to get there an hour early both ways.
They stations will become slums.
your car will be stolen or vandalized while you are riding the thing.
overall with the 2 one hour waits and the walks and all... a 3 hour trip will take about 6 hours or more.... you could probly drive it in 4 for half the money.
lazs
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300 miles is 300 miles, no matter what country it's in.
People don't use mass transit in the US because there is no convenient ground mass transit. US regional air carriers are the mass transit for those distances.
Do people think Japanese and Europeans don't have cars? ;)
Wide open spaces make it cheaper to get track right-of-ways. The airlines aren't making money anyway, and alternatives (and competition) will allow them to have less scheduled flights on routes that aren't money makers from decent loading now. I think some routes are place holders for market share and gating.
I really don't know enough about the airline industry to make definite statements, but maybe someone more qualified than me would know those answers.
And noise is only an issue because the US rail system is antique. Your diesel trains on old tracks make noise, but that just isn't the case with these. These trains are electric (no motor noise) and the tracks are so smooth that you can almost play pool onboard and there isn't much exterior noise - except the wind sound as they go by if you're standing a few feet away.
There hasn't been a fatal accident on a shinkansen in 40 years of operation. Not a bad safety record.
Darn lazs, why would you live in a country that was as bad as you make it out to be? Slums, stolen cars, bureaucratic nightmares...
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Originally posted by J_A_B
Most of our railroads want nothing to do with passengers. They actively and deliberately destroyed their own passenger services back in the 60's, and fight it to this day. Even freight trains of nonperishable goods often receive higher traffic priority than Amtrak trains. Exceptions exist, especially in the northeast corridor, but generally speaking passenger rail is pretty much dead in the USA with little prospect of making a large-scale comeback.
Yes, it's a shame. The entire story of the US railroad industry since the end of WW2 has been a nonstop shame, characterized by corporate mismanagement and public antipathy. The success stories are few, and the industry is still somewhat weak overall despite an incredible number of mergers and bankruptcies.
J_A_B
You just saved me a post.
Only to add. For some strange reason. The american public also seems to have little interest in traveling by train. So its been kinda like a double whammy.
As for the railroad industry. Perhaps it has something to do with government bailouts as the government alwasy seems to be writing them yet another check to keep them afloat. I dont know.
But I bet if they did introduce those kind of trains. Particularly if they looked like that. (the train Rolex posted) The public would take notice and become interested.
We Americans do so like cool looking things.
And todays trains just look plain ugly
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Rolex... we aren't talking about accidents... they don't strip search you and make you get to the airport an hour early because they are afraid of "accidents".
300 miles is 300 miles but hours are allways hours. If you have to wait an hour to get on both ways and.... if you have to get to the station.... it is more than the trip itself
lazs
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
I'm sure the people who live near the tracks just LOVE the sound it makes. :lol
Just before I was married I literally lived a half block from a train station.
Those of you Who attended Rutgers I am sure are familiour with the proximity of "Little Albany St" to the train station in Downtown New Brunswick.
You keep the TV turned up learn to get used to it.
The Express commuter trains arent that bad as they seem to be making less noise as they zip past then the ones stopping at the station. Or the Freighters.
Never did get used to the freight trains as they always seemed to pass by right when there was something on TV you wanted to hear.
Sleep wise they never bothered me at all as I can sleep through anything
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Aston Martin DB9 versus Eurostar from London to the south of France. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/downloads/aston_vs_train_broadband.ram)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
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Well lazs, I feel sorry for you. We seem to be able to get on planes faster outside the US and it only takes a few minutes to get on a bullet train. Trains don't have to climb and don't have to be vectored around waiting for their turn to land. A 200 mile trip is an hour flying time, plus another 1 1/2 hours getting to the runway and wheels up. That's 2 1/2 hours.
Same trip is about 4 hours by car.
Same trip is about 1 1/4 hours by train, with maybe 2 stops along the way. It shouldn't take you more than 20 minutes to get a ticket and get on the train. If it does, than that is just foolishness on everyone's part.
With that kind of defeatist attitude, there probably is no hope.
P.S. The 'accidents' was addressing someone else who brought it up.
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rolex.. the reality of one hour early arrival is not my pessimism.. it is fact. I also do not intend to live near a train station. We also have very good roads here. a 200 mile trip is normaly about 3 hours by car. I have my privacy and I have choices and... I have a vehicle when I get to where I am going.... I do not surrender my mobility and no one is strip searching me or falling assleep on my shoulder or smelling like they took a bath in perfume after not bathing for a week.
I know who has sat in the seat in my car and I can play whatever station I want.... I can even sing along if I want. If I see something interesting I can stop and look at it.
My roads will be even better too if I use the money you would use to make these gawd awfull socialist movers to fix and build new roads.
Those trains are fine for city people... blue areas are not my concern anyway. And... if they use less gas and less of my roads.... so much the better.
lazs
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Sheesh you two, just watch the video, it settles everything.
The Top Gear team have also raced a Ferrari against a 737 from London to Switzerland.....the Ferrari won.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
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swoop... how bad would it have been if the train rider strarted his time from when he left his home and they added the hour it took to strip search him before he got on?
lazs
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Okay then. It's Monday morning and you're grumpy and need to mention 'blue states' and 'city dwellers' the required number of times to meet your daily quota. I understand. Now, go to work and support those people on welfare and illegal immigrants! Your socialist nation is depending on you! ;)
Video, Swoop? I'm too afraid to open the file. Has it been cleared by Homeland Security? It's a 58 byte .ram file.
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You don't need to be strip searched to take a trainride.
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I always strip search myself before getting on the train. You don't?
(I'm bored since I can't play AH on the new server. Well, I can, but I have to go through the searches and even take off my shoes before I can leave the tower now. It's a new Homeland Security thing - even for virtual flying.)
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A few things...
1) The rail lines would have to be upgraded, as well as crossings, etc
2) The first time "bubba" doesnt feel like waiting at the crossing gate and tries to drive thru, his little "pickup" will kill hundreds. And our press, who would undoubtedly be all for this, would be waiting to say this was a disaster waiting to happen, yada yada
It sure sounds like a great idea. But, well...
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Originally posted by LePaul
A few things...
1) The rail lines would have to be upgraded, as well as crossings, etc
2) The first time "bubba" doesnt feel like waiting at the crossing gate and tries to drive thru, his little "pickup" will kill hundreds. And our press, who would undoubtedly be all for this, would be waiting to say this was a disaster waiting to happen, yada yada
It sure sounds like a great idea. But, well...
1) true
2) it works in other places. bubba either knows better or the crossing is properly secured to prevent bubba from crossing when there is a train otw
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Nilsen
What's your address? I'll have to send you a pile of Jeff Foxworthy and other redneck comedy. Clearly you have no idea how numb "bubba" is.
Hell he'd cause a pile up stacking coins on the tracks so he could sell the squished results on eBay :)
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ROFL! :D
We do have the same folks here but they are called "harry". They usually live in the middle of the country but you have minor infestations in almost every part.
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Tracks are specifically designed and constructed for these class of trains.
There is no rule that crossings have to even exist. There are no crossings on shinkansen tracks.
So far, I think there is just more resistance to anything different, than any technical or financial reason to say, "It won't work here in the US."
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As mentioned, we do have highspeed trains in germany.
Visiting my parents is a 280 miles trip. Last time it took me 3 hours and five minutes by car. Guess it's pretty safe to say that roads over here aren't any different to those in the US... only difference being there's no speed limit :D
Anyway, the highspeed train needs 1 hour 56 minutes. If you bought the tickets online there's no need to be at the station more than 5 minutes before the train leaves as there's no check in or strip searching. You're asked for your tickets aboard the train.
The only real downside is the loss of mobility whereever you're going.
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I think its a good idea too bad we are spending all that monet "building" a democracy in a country that cant get a cup of coffee without killing each other.
And even if we did some peeckerhead in the whitehouse would just try and sell control of it to his buds in Saudi Arabia:confused:
My point to this rant is that we only have so many tax dollars and untill the government starts thinking of ways to use here in America we are always gonna come up short for such minor things as less polluting forms of transpotation.
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Originally posted by Swoop
Sheesh you two, just watch the video, it settles everything.
The Top Gear team have also raced a Ferrari against a 737 from London to Switzerland.....the Ferrari won.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
And did they try to make a London/Paris race ?
I bet no :D
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Originally posted by fartwinkle
My point to this rant is that we only have so many tax dollars and untill the government starts thinking of ways to use here in America we are always gonna come up short for such minor things as less polluting forms of transpotation.
I believe private enterprise is still allowed in the US. ;)
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AROUND THE NATION;
Alaskan Train Kills 24 Moose in One Night
AP
Published: March 2, 1985
An Alaska Railroad freight train killed 24 moose in a single night this week.
''It was a terrible night,'' said the railroad's general manager, Frank Turpin.
Arnold Polanchek, assistant general manager of the state-owned line, which runs 525 miles between Seward and Fairbanks, added: ''Normally, you hit one or two a trip. I've been here 14 years and I can't remember anything like it.''
The moose, killed Wednesday between Anchorage and Fairbanks, died one by one as they walked along the ploughed track rather than in snow up to 18 inches deep, said Capt. Wayne Fleek, a state Fish and Wildlife officer. Fourteen died on the northbound trip and 10 on the way back, Mr. Polanchek said. The train, equipped with a steel cowcatcher, was not damaged, he said.
''There's a natural trough that moose will get into and just don't want to get out of,'' said Mr. Polanchek. The train, normally traveling at 40 miles an hour, cannot stop in time to avoid hitting the animals, he said.
(http://www.freshtracks.ca/images/i-rail_coach/img-rail_alaska_daylight.jpg) @ 300mph + (http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/graphics/moose3sm.jpg) = (http://people.maine.com/eric/ime/images/splat.gif)
(http://www.greenapple.com/~jorp/amzanim/moose-car2.jpg)
(http://www.greenapple.com/~jorp/amzanim/moose-car3.jpg)
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I can think of a bad point. I still put pennies on the tracks. What happens if kids do that at 250 mph?
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Originally posted by straffo
And did they try to make a London/Paris race ?
I bet no :D
Watch the video. The DB9 was well past Paris by the time the Eurostar got there. Admittedly, it didnt have to deal with the God awful traffic system in Paris.......
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
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Originally posted by Swoop
Watch the video. The DB9 was well past Paris by the time the Eurostar got there. Admittedly, it didnt have to deal with the God awful traffic system in Paris.......
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
Yep at this time the other guy were either walking or using the ultrafast british rail to go to Waterloo...
I won't bet a penny on a DB9 if the DB9 vs Eurostar run was from Waterloo to gare du Nord.
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Guys, it's not resistance to new things -- it's just that it's not practical.
Hell, in Germany they only have a couple high-speed corridors. The same in France. Italy has Florence-Rome. The rest of the time, those fancy "hi-speed" trains run on regular tracks. Why? 'Cos high-speed tracks are expensive to build. You don't have crossings on them, so every time you hit an intersecting road, you need to build some sort of under/overpass. High-speed tracks are also expensive to maintain.
So your shinkansen, ICE, TGV, Pendolino (aka Eurostar Italia) or whatever only runs at high speed on very few, highly travelled routes between population centers in relatively dense areas.
The only places in the US where such trains would make sense would be Washington D.C. - NYC - Boston and SF-LA. Guess what? The first one has "High-Speed" trains, but not tracks, because there's no place to build them. The second has been talked about for some time, and there's always some super-fancy plan on the books.
The rest of the time, you're talking about several times the length of track for more or less the same number of passengers.
Oh, and I can assure you, if we had super-highspeed trains in the US, the boarding process would be more like the Eurostar under the channel and less like the ICE: Assigned seating, X-ray machines, metal detectors. Just look at the carnage that happened when that German ICE derailed due to poor maintenance practices.
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the german train system rocks, Americas sucks cause
1) amtrak
2)too spread out
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
bad points:
1)i wonder what a 300mph train wreck looks like.
125mph train wreck...
(http://www.crash-opferrechte.de/Eschede.jpg)
(wheel failure btw, in Germany)
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I'd rather be in a crashing train than in an airliner...
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Originally posted by Staga
I'd rather be in a crashing train than in an airliner...
why in an airliner you get to see the ground rush up at you, and can take it like a man, or scream like a *****
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Hi Dinger. I agree that similar systems would probably be impractical in the US, but I would say for different reasons.
I'm not going to retype everything I said again, but the key was "regional airlines," not long-haul routes.
It's always interesting to hear the 'so spread out' and 'high density' arguments. They're used a lot in the discussion of broadband/fiber deployment also (as an excuse for the US lagging behind so badly) but population density in all the major US cities is not that much less than European or Asian cities. London and Tokyo densities are almost the same.
The arguments falls apart when the question is asked: "Well, why aren't the major US cities wired then?" It isn't technology or 'spread' that causes it, it's resistance by the providers to invest in it and continue the high margins derived from the old infrastructure.
On one hand you say that things are too spread out, yet on the other hand, you say that there is no room to build tracks. There is always room to build tracks if people work in good faith to find compromises that benefit a common goal.
Accidents would certainly be more of a concern with any US high-speed rail. While there has never been an injury or death from a shinkansen accident in 40 years of operation, the same operational conscientiousness and employee dedication and professionalism could not be built in Japan and exported to the US. That is a cultural difference, not a technology or application of the technology issue.
The lack of any clean, efficient, 'reasonably fast' rail system is proof that the culture is not flexible enough to find compromises in financing, speed, routing, and right of ways.
Economic conditions (i.e. oil price) are going to change, obviously. The airline industry is going to be under even more pressure as passenger loading increases along with fuel prices. Any plan to bring any advancement in regional rail service will take decades, and decades from now will be too late to start thinking about it.
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OK I cant resist this one.....
I am a train nut, here is my photo site, http://www.railimages.com/gallery/kevinevans and here is our club site http://www.nmrhs.org/
There are a few points that haven't been mentioned,
1. No form of public transportation makes money.
2. Public perception trumps reality every time.
3. Special intrests groups would work Hard in oppisition.
4. The RRs dont have the capacity to allow it. (OK sortta mentioned but not why)
1. Not even the public roads are supported by use fees, gas taxes don't even come close to what it costs to maintain the road systems. Airlines have enormous subisidies provided in airports and control systems funded by the gvt. Amtrack come closest to breaking even on its long distance trains it is the commuter coridor that is eating up the budget. So what it come down to is, where dose the Gvt. want to put it's money? this is influanced by;
2. Public perception, The genral public has been sold the concept that trains are "Old Fashioned" and inefficent. Also, there is a "knee jerk" reaction that trains are slow, and don't go where you need them to. then we get to #3;
3. Car companys, Air lines, and Petrolium co.s would be in dire oppisition, as they would lose market share, the 50-100 mpg carbs came in to exstance in the 40s and have been ridgidly supressed ever since, just try to start a patent search on gasoline carbaretion in the patent office. (BTW my tip for making big money, reproduce one of these carbs, the petro guys will ether buy ya off or crush you ) and lastly, the class1 RRs dont have the room for it.
4. BNSF the class one RR next to me is running 100+ trains a day from Belen to Willams (NM to AZ) on the transcon, (Cheap stuff from China for Wally world) one of our sister groups has to put up a 10 mill insurance policy every time they want to run an excursion (the SBRHS opperators of the 3751) web site, http://www.sbrhs.org/ Look at what they say about setting up opperations. In fact it is near impossable to find a road Locomotive for sale right now, if it can pull, it is in use right now, BNSF is even advertising on the radio for crew.... And the cost of new right of way is gigantic.... most of the land is owned by some one, and when "they" smell money a new project is finshed....
I would love to see it, but it probably won't happen. On the other hand, NM has just bought the tracks over Raton Pass, and CO has an option on the tracks to Denver, a Cheyenne to El Paso Passenger train is a possability, (it won't affect the trans cons)
Just a thought,
Gunns
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Bullet trains are cool, but transatlantic rigid, helium-filled LTA would be UBER cool!!
(http://www.zeppelin-nt.com/images/zeppgross.jpg)
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Ok Rolex... I don't think we need to get to an airport an hour early and be strip searched and wander around in our stocking feet either but that is what is going on here...
So why would a 250mph train with 400 passengers going over bridges in the heart of major cities be less of a terrorist target than a 400 mph plane?
in velocity and weight the train would beat out the plane for energy.
So.... how many terrorists caused train wrecks before your shiny new toy has hour long strip searches at the terminal?
plus... Americans (except metrosexuals) like to have some independence.... sure... they might think the train is great for their kid to take home from school in the summer but not for them... they don't want to be stuck somewhere with no way to get around.
You would first have to convince people that being at the mercy of public transportation was a good thing. People here like to live out away from the masses... you gonna have a terminal in every little city or town?
I agree that it would probly be a good idea tho for moving one group of blue people or another from one blue city to another.... who cares what they do or what happens to them anyway?
lazs
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I grew up in what is considered the San Francisco Bay area. The "Big City" I identified with and used for all my transportation was San Francisco. San Francisco is 80 km away from where I grew up. I challenge you to find anywhere in the old world where you have a similar degree of geographic dispersion.
As far as the "metropolitan areas": yes, the cities themselves are roughly the same density as anywhere else in the world, and yes, they are "wired". The problem isn't the cities, but the rural and peripheral suburban areas.
But you are on to something when you suggest that corporate interests are not interested in having competition. Basically, the US government cannot impinge on any existing business' territory without them doing everything possible to sabotage it.
Now, right-of-way is critical for rail. And the only way the US is going to get right-of-way for a high-speed rail network at a reasonable price is through eminent domain. We haven't done it yet (AMTRAK rents its right of way), and we're not going to do it, since it means that some politician has to go in the face of corporate interests to seize private land for a project most Americans cannot even conceive of as being useful.
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View from inside of a bullet train (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3861493121707640972&q=bullet+train) :aok
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Originally posted by straffo
Yep at this time the other guy were either walking or using the ultrafast british rail to go to Waterloo...
I won't bet a penny on a DB9 if the DB9 vs Eurostar run was from Waterloo to gare du Nord.
And therein lies the problem. Trains go where they want to go, not where you want them to go.
This is fine if you live in Bristol and want to get to Longon. But what if you live in Worcester and want to get to Norwich?
Answer: A bus, 4 different trains and another bus.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
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Amtrak has a engine that kinda looks like a bullet train
(http://is.freefoto.com/images_d/25/01/25_01_57_web.jpg)
(http://www.dunky51.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Images/0305_1.jpg)
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
Amtrak has a engine that kinda looks like a bullet train
I think you are thinking of this.....
(http://www.ebbc.org/rail/acela.jpg)
Made in Europe, if I'm not mistaken.
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For many years now, the local government here has been trying to get "Mass Transit" going to alleviate the traffic problems. We have one main freeway leading into and out of downtown Honolulu. It is also the only main freeway going into and out of Western Oahu (SA2 can comment more on that). The push to get "Mass Transit" has included proposals for rail. The government has gone so far as to set in motion an increase in our general excise tax to fund a "Mass Transit" program. We still don't know what kind of system will be used - because no one has decided yet. The local government needs to show the federal government that they're serious about it this time so we can get federal money too. The last time I remember rail being mentioned was sometime in the 90's. If I recall correctly, one of the big concerns against rail was how it would make "our island paradise" too urban. The thought of a raised track blocking someone's access to their view of the ocean... I don't know if we're ever going to get rail here (or whether we really need it). It was a struggle just to get our most recent "interstate" road up (environmental and cultural concerns). And even though it's doable, I couldn't imagine the effort it would take to get undersea tunnels up between the islands.
When I was in Japan on two one-week periods last year for work, I was impressed by the train systems there. We never had to wait long for the train to arrive to take us from Yokosuka to Shinagawa then transferring to head into Tokyo. Very frequent. Once in Tokyo though, you could see that tracks were everywhere and things got very ... compressed. I don't see our state having anything but a token rail system.. there just isn't enough available land in the areas where you need to go to.
Sure there is enough land in the contiguous 48, but if I don't fly, driving is much more fun. It was fun even driving from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon, which was the longest drive I've ever done behind the wheel.
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Originally posted by Replicant
@Gh0stFT, I haven't been on an ICE train yet, but do they all have displays in the seats like the one below or is that just 1st Class?
(http://www.finnmoller.dk/rail-de/db_ice_02.jpg)
Its not 1st class only, but you have to pre-order (reserve) such a seat,
you just cant jump on the train and find this kind of seat empty ;)
from my expirience. But the ICE is ultra comfort compared to other standard
trains, absolute low level noise, suspension works so good you dont
feel you travel at all. If i travel with the ICE you mostly find me
at the board bistro drinking a Weizen Beer anyway :D
(http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/icet/verschied/icetverschiedklein/icetbrklein.gif)
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Hmmm... dunkel Weißbier :)
I've only been on the RE trains, to Czech Republic and they're okay (but still better than UK trains because they have cool compartments).
I'm thinking of getting a Bahncard 25 or 50 so I can take advantage of travelling, cheaply, by ICE.
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How do you break it?
How long does it take to brake from 250 to 0 mph?
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Originally posted by mauser
For many years now, the local government here has been trying to get "Mass Transit" going to alleviate the traffic problems. We have one main freeway leading into and out of downtown Honolulu. It is also the only main freeway going into and out of Western Oahu (SA2 can comment more on that). The push to get "Mass Transit" has included proposals for rail. The government has gone so far as to set in motion an increase in our general excise tax to fund a "Mass Transit" program. We still don't know what kind of system will be used - because no one has decided yet. The local government needs to show the federal government that they're serious about it this time so we can get federal money too. The last time I remember rail being mentioned was sometime in the 90's. If I recall correctly, one of the big concerns against rail was how it would make "our island paradise" too urban. The thought of a raised track blocking someone's access to their view of the ocean... I don't know if we're ever going to get rail here (or whether we really need it). It was a struggle just to get our most recent "interstate" road up (environmental and cultural concerns). And even though it's doable, I couldn't imagine the effort it would take to get undersea tunnels up between the islands.
When I was in Japan on two one-week periods last year for work, I was impressed by the train systems there. We never had to wait long for the train to arrive to take us from Yokosuka to Shinagawa then transferring to head into Tokyo. Very frequent. Once in Tokyo though, you could see that tracks were everywhere and things got very ... compressed. I don't see our state having anything but a token rail system.. there just isn't enough available land in the areas where you need to go to.
Sure there is enough land in the contiguous 48, but if I don't fly, driving is much more fun. It was fun even driving from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon, which was the longest drive I've ever done behind the wheel.
When I lived in Hawaii I recall "The Bus" was rated as the best bus system in the US. I still prefered my moped and bicycle though.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Henrique Jitsu
How do you break it?
How long does it take to brake from 250 to 0 mph?
Uses disc brakes and air resistance braking (large air brakes that look like cat ears pop up from the roof).
The speed is double older shinkansens, but stopping distance is less. It takes less than 4km to stop.
The Japanese maglev train holds the world speed record: 581 kph (with passengers).
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Originally posted by eskimo2
When I lived in Hawaii I recall "The Bus" was rated as the best bus system in the US. I still prefered my moped and bicycle though.
eskimo
Yes, that's what is touted. I don't have any experience with other bus systems, but I don't really have any complaints about ours. They're fairly frequent on the main routes, have a couple types of express routes and go just about everywhere. However, like you alluded to it would take more than an expanded system to get more people to give up their preferred means of transportation.
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Rolex sayeth:
if people work in good faith to find compromises that benefit a common goal
We must not live in the same world, I have yet to see something like that happen.
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Picture Hangar?