Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: storch on March 12, 2006, 12:01:51 PM
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Just came across this info. I thought I would share it here.
Apparently the FAA utilized F4Us (CorsairI) and F6F-3s in attacking the German Battleship Tirpitz. 1834 squadron operating from HMS FORMIDABLE on 3 April 1944 attacked the super battleship in norweigian waters. this was also the first use of the mighty F4U in carrier operations. further Corsair attacks were made on the Tirpitz in July and August of 1944.
The FAA also attacked Tirpitz from HMS EMPEROR with F6F-3 (Hellcats F1) in support of the Corsairs. The Hellcats claiming 3 109 kills on the 3 April 1944 raid.
this could be the basis for a one week set up of F4U-1s and F6F-5s vs 109-G6s and 190-A5s? we could use the baltic map. I would say use seafires as well but then no one would fly the F4Us. enable a cruiser fleet for the axis and a carrier group or two for the allies. have mosquitos set up in rear bases to add flavor if you like.
this is a happy medium for those of us who want to fly German planes and still accomodate the blue planes aficionados.
Allies:
CVs
TG1
F4U-1s
TBMs
SBDs
TG2
F6F-5
TBMs
SBDs
bases at least three sectors away
Mosquito
SpitVIII
Axis:
109G2
109G6
110G2
190A5
Ju88 (rear bases only)
if it turns out to be a popular idea perhaps it could be pursued further with additional refinements.
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OUTSTANDING:aok
Since I've been waiting for the pac set up, this is a great idea.
wtg storch
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Great idea Storch.
I'm a hog'o'holic, and this looks like a great set up.
Would be great to see hogs and kitty's vs 109's.
staffers?
RTR
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Yeah winner idea.
They use to include FAA F6's,and F4U's, for the Norway setups, but thats been a while.
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Very good idea Storch, I like it.
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Originally posted by RTR
staffers?
Looks good
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Great idea Storch, to be honest, I'd rather be in a F4 U1 than a spit when doggin with you boys, hope it comes off
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This looks like a great setup, would love to give it a try.
I always knew Storch had a soft spot for us FAA boys. :p
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Fantastic! :)
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any chance of this happening soon? I think it might be fun for all involved.
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We're waiting for the new North Sea map. Should be ready soon, maybe even for the next setup. Or the one after that...
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GRUN I thought we flew together in Hostile shores in 2001 ?
For those wondering the meaning of my post Hostile Shores was a scenario with this exact setup :)
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was it fun?
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We used to fly this scenerio fairly often back when I was on the CT Staff.
Storch is correct. It always was a pretty popular set-up and most people enjoyed flying it. Allies had to operate most of their aircraft off the carriers but it was still fun.
One of the old maps actually had the TIRPITZ in a cove protected by AA guns. When I was the CO of 800 Sqdn. FAA (The Hellcats of HMS EMPEROR) we flew missions against the TIRPITZ along with other squads. Is there a new NORWAY map? If so hope it has this same feature. Even though - historically the RN raided targets all up and down the coast of Norway so it should make for some good fights for both sides.
The only change I would make to Storch's aircraft list was the LANCASTER being based in England and at least one CV with the Seafire II it was the main aircraft in the RN fleet at the time. Looks good otherwise. 3+ Carriers for the RN if we can swing it.
Hope the AvA staff will think hard about this one. Very good set-up and something different from the ETO Cross Channel Furball.
Storch for digging this one up. :aok
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Ya sounds awesome!
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Originally posted by storch
was it fun?
Yeahi t's was really fun,except for the bomber who usually never met their escort but their fate :D
Plus the setup was quite exotic
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if the seafires would be added I believe it would only detract from the premis of the setup. I believe the setup is good as I suggested.
If you want a seafire setup do a pseudo Taranto strike.
give the RN a few carriers
TBM
SBD
SeafireII
Italians
MC202
Bf109E
and let the axis whining begin. this would be challenging for the axis but the 202 can handle the seafires and the 109E is an underrated little monster.
This might also be fun.
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The SeafireII is too new for the Taranto strike being a 1942 bird. I agree with you Storch the 202 would probably matchup good against it. However if the SeafireII appears it should have to battle it's 1942/43 Luftwaffe counterparts like the 109G2, and 190A5. No disrespect to the Emil.
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Originally posted by storch
if the seafires would be added I believe it would only detract from the premis of the setup. I believe the setup is good as I suggested.
I agree, leave it as it was first put up.
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Originally posted by storch
this could be the basis for a one week set up of F4U-1s and F6F-5s vs 109-G6s and 190-A5s? we could use the baltic map.
We think we'll run this one, using Baltic map because it's taking some time to get the North Sea map approved. Storch, would you care to post some more details, such as rear base locations, visibility and radar settings, that sort of thing? Check the MOTD for the current setup to see the sort of things that are variable.
Diggit.
- oldman
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sure would OM but I might need a refresher on what the baltic map looks like
make A6 A9 A12 and A13 english land bases. enable Port7 as the spawn point for the RN.
make the S/E quarter of the map as the German bases. make the rest of the map the neutral country. Have a cruiser only fleet uncontrollable by players steaming between A42 and A43 with manned ack enabled harden the ships both axis and allied to it's maximum value to represent the difficulty of killing the targets
no possibilty of base capture.
RAF
Lancaster III
Mossies
RN from CVs
TG1
F6F
SBD
TBM
TG2
F4U
SBD
TBM
Axis
109G2
109G6
FW190A5
110G2
Ju88 rear bases only
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Originally posted by storch
if the seafires would be added I believe it would only detract from the premis of the setup. I believe the setup is good as I suggested.
You really THAT AFRAID of some old Seafires there Storchie? :rofl Even with the 109G2, G6 & 190A5? The Seafire II is nothing but a downgraded Spit V - all three of the above German planes outclass it.
Come on - how would it detract from the set-up? Don't see how you can say that with a straight face.
The Seafire was an integral part of the FAA and was about always found aboard their carriers no matter what part of the War and operated alongside the Corsairs, Wildcats, Hellcats till the end of the conflict.
Sorry Storchie - that dog just won't hunt. :aok
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Originally posted by Jester
You really THAT AFRAID of some old Seafires there Storchie? :rofl Even with the 109G2, G6 & 190A5? The Seafire II is nothing but a downgraded Spit V - all three of the above German planes outclass it.
Come on - how would it detract from the set-up? Don't see how you can say that with a straight face.
The Seafire was an integral part of the FAA and was about always found aboard their carriers no matter what part of the War and operated alongside the Corsairs, Wildcats, Hellcats till the end of the conflict.
Sorry Storchie - that dog just won't hunt. :aok
look up my scores and see what I hunt and what I hunt in. the fact remains that if the seafire is included it will be used almost exclusively as it is the path of least resistance. just look at this current scenario and look at what the peanut gallery is in at 20k and being all chest thumpy about their aceyness. I offered up a suggestion for a scenario I thought might be fun rather than critizising mine come up with a proposal of your own. whether or not the AvA staff ultimately decides to play the scenario is their decision, what they will include as combatants is also their decision.
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The largest amount of kills you have are in the 110G2 and Typhoon. Hmm HOing must be the path of least resistance.
40+ hours already at the middle of the month? How do you get that much free time? Is Amway based in france now?;)
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I don't HO and I don't fly at 20k either. come to arena and i'll hand you all your parts on each and every sortie. ;) with regard to my free time I manage my affairs very judiciously and I utilize the concepts of economy of force and leveraging of my assets.
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"I don't HO" :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rolleyes:
I'm going to laughing all afternoon now. Thanks :aok
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Originally posted by trukjr
"I don't HO" :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rolleyes:
I'm going to laughing all afternoon now. Thanks :aok
I can see why you would be confused by that statement. though while true, I don't HO you are obviously not clear on which end of the plane is which and since your last view of anything in the arena is a JG54 player shooting you down you are clearly holding the "six" view far too long. The big HO players in JG54 are allmetal and more recently wildesau. The rest of us manueover for a kill.
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If the seafires were in action at the time of the scenario then they should be in it, regardless of anyones thoughts on the plane concerened.
That's like me saying lets leave out the 190 or the G2 whatever because I think it would detract from the scenario.
Not trying to flame or troll here but the whole point of these scenarios is to work together to create fun for all of us, To be honest, it should be left up to guys like OM or anyone with the history books at hand to give us all the low down on what was flying when and where etc.
But I don't think you can just go adding crates or taking crates out of the equation because, well, you feel like it.
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Originally posted by Hawco
If the seafires were in action at the time of the scenario then they should be in it, regardless of anyones thoughts on the plane concerened.
Long and painful experience has taught us that, if you want a setup to feature a certain plane match, you have to restrict the plane set. This is especially true with the Spitfire. If Spits are available, a disproportionate number of people will fly them, and then you completely miss the whole point of the setup (which, in this case, is to show how blue planes might fare against the Luftwaffe). As a good example, log into the arena tonight. You almost certainly will find that the vast majority of Allied pilots are flying spitfires, which, of course, is historically very inaccurate. We don't mind featuring "RAF operations in [name the theater of your choice]" from time to time, but the intent of the next setup is not to have yet another week of Spitfires against 109s and 190s.
- oldman
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he knows that, he'll be one of them. last night I had to climb up to 25k to spank him with my 110 while he was in a spit16, refusing to engage only climbing away. a long long shot of 30mm precipitated his departure from the arena as he retired for the evening.
I understand that the spit played a pivotal role in WWII and that it was a fine, perhaps arguably the finest fighter to see service in that era as evidenced by it's long production run and unquestionable success. It was truly a brilliant design from the fertile mind of a talented designer. In short Reginald Mitchell may have indeed saved Great Britian with his capable fighter.
The problem with the spits in this WWII game is that there is an inexhaustible supply of them and they were nowhere near as good as they are depicted here. They remained competetive throughout the war but never were they able to totally dominate their opponents. The kills they got were earned. In here any dweeb can land kills in a spit while eating jelly donuts and watching pron.
I believe the spitfire in it's AHII iteration has no place in any historical set up where it's numbers can't somehow be limited. If they were my set ups to host they would be present but three to six sectors back from the front lines.
You have supposedly historical squads that seldomly fly anything else. case in point, many of the players from the 325th VFG will never fly the P40, P47 or P51. They will all be found dweebing around at 107k in spitfires, cherry picking fights and a particular player proclaiming his supreme "aceyness" on 200. The spitfire belongs in the MA.
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Originally posted by storch
I don't HO and I don't fly at 20k either. come to arena and i'll hand you all your parts on each and every sortie. ;)
I'm glad you cleared that up. You fly at 25K in your 110, not 20K, and you brag instead of chest thump.
Originally posted by storch
with regard to my free time I manage my affairs very judiciously and I utilize the concepts of economy of force and leveraging of my assets.
Your BS is first class as well.:aok
I like your idea . I don't think the Seafire is the same animal as a Spitfire , but it's your baby fill it as you wish.
OM, I don't think the idea is to just see how the LW planes stack up against the Blue planes. Thats been done with LW subs in PTO's. I think it was a sincere effort by Storch to get a new scenario out there. I'm glad to see your going to pay attention to his, maybe you'll consider other players ideas in the future.
I got one question on all this Spit talk. I don't do any better in it then I do in a USAAF plane. Maybe because I'm a BnZr at heart. Is it the Spit, or is it the cannons? Nobody complains about the spit or hurri during BOB. Because they are both shooting 303's. Put a cannon in them and all the sudden their dweeb planes. Same with the F4U , the Axis doesn't complain until the C model with the cannon enters the setup.
Is it the aircraft or do you Luftwaffe boys just want to be the only ones armed with 20mm?:confused:
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"they were nowhere near as good as they are depicted here. "
Do you have proof of this?
"In here any dweeb can land kills in a spit while eating jelly donuts and watching pron."
What does that say about the opposition?
We are all entitled to our opinions here & I'm going to try to keep this constructive now. The setup looks good, but I don't believe the seafire is as much of an uber monster as it is a well rounded a/c, hence it's appeal.
I can understand leaving it out of the PTO sets featuring the blue planes vs. IJN & IJA, but not a setup thats highlighting the FAA. It's like asking to leave the 109's out of the Finn/Russ setups.
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Is it the aircraft or do you Luftwaffe boys just want to be the only ones armed with 20mm?
I believe that it is the latter. I have noticed that when the allied planeset has only spit1s or hurri1s with the 303 that you have to avoid the HO HO HO syndrome. It doesnt matter how many times that I avoid a HO [some but not all LWs ]will just yank and bank and just keep trying to do the headon shot. But if the cannon equipped a/c especially the Hurri is available the HO mindset seems to disappear. About the only time I do use HO tactics is when I'm being ganged by 2 or more LW. Thats just trying to survive but some guys live on it even when it isnt a necessity.:)
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Originally posted by storch
he knows that, he'll be one of them. last night I had to climb up to 25k to spank him with my 110 while he was in a spit16, refusing to engage only climbing away. a long long shot of 30mm precipitated his departure from the arena as he retired for the evening.
I understand that the spit played a pivotal role in WWII and that it was a fine, perhaps arguably the finest fighter to see service in that era as evidenced by it's long production run and unquestionable success. It was truly a brilliant design from the fertile mind of a talented designer. In short Reginald Mitchell may have indeed saved Great Britian with his capable fighter.
The problem with the spits in this WWII game is that there is an inexhaustible supply of them and they were nowhere near as good as they are depicted here. They remained competetive throughout the war but never were they able to totally dominate their opponents. The kills they got were earned. In here any dweeb can land kills in a spit while eating jelly donuts and watching pron.
I believe the spitfire in it's AHII iteration has no place in any historical set up where it's numbers can't somehow be limited. If they were my set ups to host they would be present but three to six sectors back from the front lines.
You have supposedly historical squads that seldomly fly anything else. case in point, many of the players from the 325th VFG will never fly the P40, P47 or P51. They will all be found dweebing around at 107k in spitfires, cherry picking fights and a particular player proclaiming his supreme "aceyness" on 200. The spitfire belongs in the MA.
Biggest load of rubbish I've read on here to date, before posting posts like this, please read rule number 4.
I hope amway starts selling glasses because you need a fresh pair, spit 16 ? try a 14, whats all this c**P about long long shots with a 30mm? how about this scenario- I'm tooling along in a 14, I had just landed 4 in a tempest and 2 in a spit 9, wanted to try something different,come across a k4, he climbs and trys a long winded spiral climb type thing, probably on the horn saying there's a spit up here, get to about 20ish k, and low and behold, there's a 110 AND a 190 ABOVE AND the K4 coming back, so there we have it, 3V1, and I'll tell you what got me killed, my wife coming in and telling me my dinners ready, had around 5 mins grace, what do you do? turn around and a long trip back? or do you stick it out with a solitary 109 till the horde show up ABOVE me and then tough it out and if you die so what?
I honestly don't know why you type rubbish like that, if you do it to get a reaction then you have succeded, I don't mind losing to anyone, but please don't type things like this are just not true, we are all here to have a bit of a laugh, nothing more or less, please don't spoil my fun with childish antics like this that just upset people.
Thank you
Hawco
And before I forget, what's all this "one of them" ? I take great offence to comments like that for reasons you'll never understand, so you can also remember and refrain from including my name in with statements like that.
Thank you for taking the time to read this Storch.
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Lol.. there is no X on 1.
Come on, Storch is the most under rated pilot in the game.
Hell, I remember one time me, Wldthing and the ENTIRE SQUAD of BKs tried BnZing him.. we were all in Tempests and he was in a 109E4..
He got ALL of us.
It was positively magical.
When he says he dominated you after you dove from a 20k alt advantage in a spit 16 and he was in a 110, and YOUR story is it was a 3 on 1 with all three of them higher, I know who I'M gonna believe.
Storch!
You need to take me to the DA some day and learn me some fightin!
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poor urchin still smarting over his butt whooping all those weeks ago.
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Lol, "butt whoopin" huh?
News Flash, ace. I get killed all the time. There are only two things that make em memorable.
The first is a really good fight that I lose. I'll usually remember that guy as being pretty good.
The second is the usual death, which for me is an X on 1, followed up by some ****-talkin newb thinking he went and did something special. I usually remember those guys too, but not for being good.
Can you guess which category you fall under?
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to remind you ace, it was a 3 v 3 and you all died. afterwards we all ran away for fear of your aceyuberness, what you being in a spitfire and all. we figured it was ok to do so, I mean since afterall you were all dead. the fight was memorable to me not just because I bested you but because of how easily it happened, I thought perhaps your kid was playing on your account or something.
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Well, like I said earlier.. you are probably the single most under rated pilot in the game. I definately have you in the top 1. Maybe even the top top 1 on your good days, when you are the only person that could possibly beat you.
I think if you were to move from the CT to the MA, would actually become a legend in other people's minds too!
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Originally posted by Urchin
Well, like I said earlier.. you are probably the single most under rated pilot in the game. I definately have you in the top 1. Maybe even the top top 1 on your good days, when you are the only person that could possibly beat you.
I think if you were to move from the CT to the MA, would actually become a legend in other people's minds too!
far from it I'm somewhat below average at best. but you ain't all that and a bag of chips either. it was fun to feed you to the trigger fish. come back I'd like to do it again sometime.
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I can say without ego that one v one in any planes you feel like picking you'd lose.
As far as being "all that and a bag of chips" (flashback to elementary school there).. I'd say I'm probably in the top 1-2% for fighters. That is good enough for me, since that is really all I do.
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I'd say I'll see you in the arena mr...1%er.
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Who said I'm coming into "your arena" Mr Mouth?
Got better things to do with my time.
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ok mr 1%er have it your way but just in case I'm in there every night and easy to find.
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No doubt, I'll just look for the horde.
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For those few of you who keep on about the Seafire, please understand. For the longest time the CT(now AvA) was ruled by the mindset of "make it as historically accurrate as possible". The spits tend to throw logistics all out of whack in such a small arena. I'm not making an argument of whether or not they are better than they should be, just talking reality. They are one of the easier planes to 'jump in and fly', especially for newer players, and on top of that they are one of those legendary Icons like the Mustang that everyone recognizes right off and wants to fly. The lesson that was learned was, balance is more important to overall gameplay than being 100% historically accurate (which we never could be anyway with the holes we have in our planeset). Recently, with well thought out planesets and a good map rotation, the AvA has started to regain some of its old popularity. I'd like to see it continue to pick up new players and hopefully fill in some of those holes. I DONT want to see it go back to the way it was. I hope you can understand, and forgive the lack when they are left out or limited, that your way has been tried and it didnt work.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I hope you can understand, and forgive the lack when they are left out or limited, that your way has been tried and it didnt work.
What do you mean by "your way" ?
Nobody in this squad asks for Spit in all the setups. We don't put them there , we don't control the plane sets. You have never seen any of us in this discusssion ask for spits to be in any setup before this. In fact this is the first request I've ever made for anything Supermarine.
We asked for the Seafire to be included in a setup featuring the Fleet Air Arm . We are an Fleet Air Arm squad. The Seafire was this squads historical mount, thats why we asked. In fact more then a few of us have offered ideas in the past to help the Japanese setup by including German planes. Most of us have supported almost any idea to make adjustments for the Axis so the arena is more balanced . So we asked , the answers no. It's not like we asked for the Spit MK whatever you hate most.
Like any other setup this ones not any of ours to decide. Storch said no and the AVA Staff has given him the power to decide.
Oh damn I'll have to fly a Corsair instead.
:p
The horse is dead , let it rot. So you can take remarks like "your way" and stick them up your Jolly Roger.
:aok
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shifty no one has given me any such thing. take some sedatives man, or better yet start a discussion group with mr1%er, it seems you both need a hug. I'll donate the coffee and donuts, that should bring jester waddling to join you. :D
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Originally posted by Shifty
Like any other setup this ones not any of ours to decide. Storch said no and the AVA Staff has given him the power to decide.
What?:huh
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So, are you guys going to do hellcats and hogs vs LW, or just spits?
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Nothing in my post was an attack Shifty. Or do you not allow polite discusions if they disagree with your point of view?
"Your way" was specifically aimed at people taking the "all or nothing" route to historic inclusion. And in no way was it meant to be an attack of any sort. It was an observation. I have no dog in this hunt, it makes no difference to me either way if you get your Seafire, I'm just stating why it probably wont be there and a little history to show there is justification for that line of reasoning.
Now, I'm not sure if you have taken what passes for "discussion" in this forum to heart, and think thats how everyone talks, or if you are really a nasty tempered prettythang in real life, and I dont care. However, try aiming it at someone else from now on. Mmmmkay?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
So, are you guys going to do hellcats and hogs vs LW, or just spits?
we are considering doing any set up which will draw you and your frilly consorts to the arena. once we have you in our clutches we will pound you into dust then taunt you mercilessly on this bbs for months on end. It works. ask urchin. er check that, we are doing nothing of the sort. ummm we just want to see what a battle for a super battleship might look like in cartoonoville.
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Lol... less taunting and more cherrypicking.
You outta be good at that, eh senor?
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Nothing in my post was an attack Shifty. Or do you not allow polite discusions if they disagree with your point of view?
"Your way" was specifically aimed at people taking the "all or nothing" route to historic inclusion. And in no way was it meant to be an attack of any sort. It was an observation. I have no dog in this hunt, it makes no difference to me either way if you get your Seafire, I'm just stating why it probably wont be there and a little history to show there is justification for that line of reasoning.
Now, I'm not sure if you have taken what passes for "discussion" in this forum to heart, and think thats how everyone talks, or if you are really a nasty tempered prettythang in real life, and I dont care. However, try aiming it at someone else from now on. Mmmmkay?
Jeez dude your calling me a nasty tempered prettythang? Did you read any of the other post?? The Jolly Roger thing was a joke. Wink Thumbs Up
Get it?? then again my sense of humor may be bad.If you don't have a dog in the hunt you might want to stay outta the woods. Everyone is shooting 12 guage **** balls in this area and it's recon by fire.
I'll try and come across more Jolly..... Roger. <<<<< another attempt at humor.
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SA far from being a nasty tempered bellybutton shifty is a friendly, gracious and civil player. He's also mighty fine 109 fodder. It's easy to misconstrue people's intent by what they type. I didn't get any of what you got from his posts. Just saying.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Lol... less taunting and more cherrypicking.
You outta be good at that, eh senor?
I don't know I must be improving to a minuscule degree. I mean afterall with you being a 1%er and the absolute undisputed ruler of the cartoon airways and me being one of the denizens of the amoeba slime pit, pulling off a major coup by pounding you down to granules finer than baby powder has to be considered noteworthy, n'est pas?
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Originally posted by storch
SA far from being a nasty tempered bellybutton shifty is a friendly, gracious and civil player. He's also mighty fine 109 fodder. It's easy to misconstrue people's intent by what they type. I didn't get any of what you got from his posts. Just saying.
Thanks Storch, actually my fodder is also available for 190's, and 110's. Check at your local Messerschmitt, and Focke Wulf disributors today.
Also keep an eye out for the new Ocean Pacific Flaming Shifty. Available soon at your Nakajima , Kawasaki and Mitsubishi , retailers.
Like I said earlier let this horse die it's going nowhere. The Corsair , and Hellcat are fine. This was Storches idea , it's a good one. Plus most people have expressed interest in it. I think we should fly it . In fact I wish it would get loaded today.
Hint Hint :aok
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It would be nice if the AvA staff could load it today so it can be flown tonight and during the weekend...
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Originally posted by Platano
It would be nice if the AvA staff could load it today so it can be flown tonight and during the weekend...
Does that mean the ground crew got your ship airworthy again....?
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My apologies then. Perhaps my skin has gotten thinner as I age, I just didnt see that one. Ah well. Wont be the first time I was wrong, I'm sure it wont be the last. My ex-wife will be glad to inform you just how many times I've been wrong. lol
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Originally posted by Platano
It would be nice if the AvA staff could load it today so it can be flown tonight and during the weekend...
One can dream.....
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Originally posted by Platano
It would be nice if the AvA staff could load it today so it can be flown tonight and during the weekend...
Originally posted by Slash27
One can dream.....
Looks like your wishes came true. So which one of you is the fairy? :)
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Looks like your wishes came true. So which one of you is the fairy? :)
alright I cannot lie......the fairy is urchin
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Originally posted by storch
I'M GOOD! DAMMIT I'M GOOD! WHY AREN'T YOU ALL SAYING HOW GOOD I AM!!?!!!?!!!!!!!11111oneoneeleven
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Originally posted by Urchin
what I really like is a nice sunset on a secluded beach, a fruity margarita with a cute umbrella in it and my true love, big head todd holding my hand.
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I do love my fruit margaritas...
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Originally posted by bcee
Does that mean the ground crew got your ship airworthy again....?
yessir :aok
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Til I plugged it with a bunch of 50 cal. Good fights today lads (you too Platano) :aok
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Til I plugged it with a bunch of 50 cal. Good fights today lads (you too Platano) :aok
<>
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:rofl