Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Happy1 on March 12, 2006, 02:45:11 PM
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:) Greetings, just finished reading "PACIFIC SWEEP: THE 5TH AND 13TH
FIGHTER COMMAND IN WORLD WAR II by WILLIAM N. HESS". A great, interesting & informative treatise on Allied & Enemy Fighters.
To ALL the arm-chair aces who whine at people using Head-on (HO) tactics, I say READ the book & learn. U'll find that the HO was used successfully by allied P40, P39 & P38 pilots, such as BONG, WATKINS & too many others
to mention.
This tactic is NOT a dweeb tactic but was used by ALL, thereby whining & complaining about HO used extensively in AH2 shows SOME peoples' igno-
rance & NOT based on facts but rather their own likes & dislikes.
Questions? Either purchase the book or borrow it from the library.
To players using HO use it as u see fit, as long as u enjoy the game, it's for UR enjoyment & not for other people's ideas as to what u should or shouldn't do. :aok Blast them out of the sky!!
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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sure, and as you're lining up the shot from 1.5k out im thinking about how easily im gunna avoid your HO and keeeel ewe.
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I agree with you Happy1.
However, it has been my experience that a head on shot is a pretty low percentage shot, not to mention the fact that you are now at the pointy end of your opponent.
It is for this reason that I will generally turn away from a HO (or try to get under / around etc.).
I find that deflection shots are much higher percentage shot, and they also afford me the comfort of not being at the pointy end.
Not to mention the fact that my favorite rides don't do too well in a HO situation due to ammo type. (read "I get my butt handed to me" here).;)
For those that do employ the HO as a tactic, well more power to them. It's your $14.95, fly the way you have fun. That is why we are all here.
cheers,
RTR
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Originally posted by Happy1
To players using HO use it as u see fit, as long as u enjoy the game, it's for UR enjoyment & not for other people's ideas as to what u should or shouldn't do. :aok Blast them out of the sky!!
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
To players such as yourself that lack any sort of skill to do anything but HO, may you always be labeled for the skilless dweeb twits you are. Cheers.
ack-ack
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I guess the armchair aces are all tied in to THEIR way of doing things instead of what history states...now I find that some P38 armchair fliers think highly of themselves completely disregarding what the REAL pilots did in WW2...
Read the book for facts not ur comic book plays & infantile ideas, btw most of the HO shots were done by P38 & P47 pilots ... brag? No, FACTS.
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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if you find DELIGHT in using Head On shots, then by all means go for it, but some in this game would rather learn how to use BFM's combined as in ACM to defeat their opponent, rather than fly straight at their opponent nose to nose and fire away at each other doing the HO thing.....but to each his own, and how each have fun doing their thing........
if it isn't fun don't do it........
if you want to learn something other than how to HO ( which everyone can do proficiently and with ease ) then ...
all you got to do is ask for some help...........that is what the Training & Help forum is for, it is not for someone to give an excuse why they use a HO tactic.....
nice try though..........:D
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Ho'n is just weak. Wrecks the fun... which is what this game is about right?
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So reading one book makes you an expert now huh? Why don't you do more research on the subject(read more than 1 book) and then proclaim the HO was widely used. After doing research of my own I've found that the HO wasn't as widely used as you suggest and it wasn't the dead 12 HO that AH is. It was a front quarter, high deflection shot which gave you some room to manuever out of the path of the enemy aircraft. In real life very few would risk the dead 12 HO do to closure rate and chance for collision. After all, in real life you don't get to respawn after you smack face 1st into the enemy.
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The ONLY suggestion I have is READ THE BOOK, I'm no expert nor claim 2b, like u do, that's why u fight wars from Virtual Reality Games, enlist in the armed forces, hero, & try the real thing.
Happy1 :D
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I agree with TC and Yucca, HOin is a lame way to fight....in the game! In the game it doesn't take much skill to just dive in, point your nose at the enemy a pull the trigger. Fight a running battle that last a few minutes instead of just one pass.... thats fighting The lack of skill with an HO is what people are complaining about in the game.
In real live however, when, if you missed, or screwed up and got shot yourself, or crashed into your enemy, then there was no reset button, nor did you just pop into the tower and grab a new plane. In real life it was a desparate move or one that took really big kahones!
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Where did I claim to be an expert? I said I did some research...but I used more than 1 book. Sorry if the truth knocks your "the HO is ok" defense down a notch. And I don't play this game for the pointless virtual war. I play to unwind and get away from the real world.
As for the miltiary service, what does that have to do with anything? Do you have to be in the miltiary to study military history and understand tactics used 60+ years ago? Further more, do you know me? Do you know whether or not I've done military service?
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Looks like a crumppism to me. Cherry pick the info that says what you want, and ignore the context. I can think of pleanty historical HO episodes, but that does not mean that WWII dogfighting cosisted of a bunch of fighter planes jousting. McGuire touches on HOing in his SWP P-38 manual, and recomends it as a tactic. Do you know why? Its in the context of the Japaneese fighters being lightly armored and poorly suited for long range inline firing with wing mounted guns. He says that they will break off from a HO attack 9 out of 10 times. In that situation it is to force the enemy to break away, not specifically to get a victory in one pass.
Many of the HO accounts I have read were not consisting of 2 planes flying headlong for each other from miles apart. In fact I can think of more that were situations where the pilot was turning for their life, and happened to come nose on with an oncomming enemy, in both the Euro and Pac theaters.
Off the top of my head I can recall a HO victory by Bong. That was a bomber that he had spotted miles behind his flight, for which he turned and shreaded it head on. That was hardly a fighter vs fighter situation. Hang out in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum, and you'll find out that many of your "armchair aces" have an extensive historical library and have been absorbing that information for many many years.
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HOs are dweeb move. Its a crap shoot, some times you win, some times you lose.
Every ACM book Ive ever read said to avoid HOs at all cost. There is NO P-51 pilot that would ever think of doing HOs.
I know every manuver to aviod HOS, and even how to time and drop so as to take advantage of ping rates on an HO.
Just say NO to HOs
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Originally posted by Happy1
I guess the armchair aces are all tied in to THEIR way of doing things instead of what history states...now I find that some P38 armchair fliers think highly of themselves completely disregarding what the REAL pilots did in WW2...
Read the book for facts not ur comic book plays & infantile ideas, btw most of the HO shots were done by P38 & P47 pilots ... brag? No, FACTS.
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
I would strongly suggest that you do the same. While you're at it, read Rober Shaw's book on fighter tactics or Boyle's and then come back and show me were they explain head on tactics.
Did real pilots take head on shots? Yes, it was stupid not to take a shot when the opportunity arose. But not many pilots would regularly and only maneuver to take a high risk and in a lot of cases a low percentage shot. It was a quick way to kill yourself.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I would strongly suggest that you do the same. While you're at it, read Robert Shaw's book on fighter tactics or Boyle's and then come back and show me were they explain head on tactics.
Did real pilots take head on shots? Yes, it was stupid not to take a shot when the opportunity arose. But not many pilots would regularly and only maneuver to take a high risk and in a lot of cases a low percentage shot. It was a quick way to kill yourself.
Yeah what he said!
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Well.... you and all HOers dweeb can do what you want; if this is your way to have fun......
He who is a little bit skilled in the game knows how to react and take advantage from this crappy maneuver....
But please be so open-minded not to whine when OTHERS play THEIR game; so don't whine on ch.200 whe you are cherrypicked, when you are tag-teamed, or vulched....to each his own fun ;)
N.B I dont refer to anyone in particular, but I've noticed this unbalanced practice goin'up more and more on MA ch 200
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Like it or not Happy is right. By the AH standards in WW2 the US were Alt Dweeb, HO, Vulching, Gang Banging, Runners :)
With that said, the HO is not a good opening move. It is best to avoid the HO. As a matter of fact, I like to hear them guns firing when on the first pass. It gives me a clue as to the skill of my opponent. Most times their tactic does not change for the next pass. Worry when you do not hear the guns, as these opponents are positioning for the kill.
When you just point for the enemy and go for the shot, you will be leading your target. If you miss, it makes it easier for your opponent to get position on you for the next pass. First work to get in position behind your target, then aim and fire.
Gunner
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I think that it is ur choice, war is war and if u want to simulate WWII, in which all kinds of pilots used head-ons depending on the situation, then go ahead. Certain planes like il2 and mossie head on others very successfully, some like the b5n and a6m do not. I would nt advocate avoiding it 100%, or using it always. It depends on the situation to benefit u. If u are in a hurricane 2c and the opponent is in a a6m, ofcourse use it as the zero is both faster and turns better. If you are in a me262 and the opponent is in an a20, do not do it because ur perks will be gone, the 30mm is not that effective in long range, and the a20 is far stronger.
Conclusion: Depends on situation, nothing in the world (and AH) is black and white
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As I've stated before, the reason people gripe about the HO is because back in the Air Warrior days, the HO was just about disabled, and you didn't have to worry about it.
Then when AW folded, and peole came to AH to fly, they found out that their status quo had been upset, and they would have to adjust to a new and different style of playing/fighting. They've been griping and complaining ever since.
Then as new players entered the game, and saw the "vets" griping about the HO, they started doing it also, just because it seemed to be the thing to do.
Never mind the fact that it was a valid tactic that WAS USED in WWII, or the fact that common sense dictates that if you have the enemy in your sights - you pull the trigger. It's just something else for people to complain about. Sort of an AH elitist, snobbish attitude that says "if you don't fight the way I want you to, you must be a dweeb!"
These people are the same ones that if you shoot them down from their 6 position, complain that you were using a Spitfire, or were an "alt dweeb", etc.
Some peplle will never be satisfied...
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Originally posted by SKJohn
As I've stated before, ....
Repeating your opinion doesnt mean you know what you're talking about.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Repeating your opinion doesnt mean you know what you're talking about.
Sorry about having an opinion - I'll try not to let it happen again. . . .:(
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I think the focus of this thread has been diverted.......
HO.....IF a HO oppurtunity arises IN THE MIDDLE of a fight.....take it. NO ONE WILL GRIPE ABOUT THAT!
What all the GRIPING IS ABOUT is that there are players whose only move in a FIGHT will BE A HEADON.
Now as for practicalities, almost any aicraft poses a advantage in a HO agaiinst a zeke, for resons like wingmounted guns, weak structure etc and so the HO can be used with minimal risk. How many HOs have been done against KI61s, with the 20mms being inline? Or for that matter even with wing mounted guns, almost no one will HO a P47 or a 190? Heck most even avoid my P38? Why do you think that is?
HO is a tactic, but is meant to be used as a secondary tactic, when no other choice or an open window appears, not as a way to fight the fight.
OF COURSE at the end of the day, its your game n you have a right to have fun, so the final decision is yours. SOme have fun by winning, some have fun fighting.........AND YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FIGHTING AND WINNING.
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Opinions are encouraged, otherwise this board would be a ghost town :)
I disagree with your baggage from AW assesment, but I think sviggen's assesment that 'it depends on the situation' sums it up pretty well.
The HO should be in the toolbox, but figuratively speaking when someone pulls out a hammer to loosen screws, and also to tighten bolts, and also to clean the windows its no wonder there is griping when those 'handymen' are encountered.
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Originally posted by SKJohn
As I've stated before, the reason people gripe about the HO is because back in the Air Warrior days, the HO was just about disabled, and you didn't have to worry about it.
Then when AW folded, and peole came to AH to fly, they found out that their status quo had been upset, and they would have to adjust to a new and different style of playing/fighting. They've been griping and complaining ever since.
Then as new players entered the game, and saw the "vets" griping about the HO, they started doing it also, just because it seemed to be the thing to do.
Never mind the fact that it was a valid tactic that WAS USED in WWII, or the fact that common sense dictates that if you have the enemy in your sights - you pull the trigger. It's just something else for people to complain about. Sort of an AH elitist, snobbish attitude that says "if you don't fight the way I want you to, you must be a dweeb!"
These people are the same ones that if you shoot them down from their 6 position, complain that you were using a Spitfire, or were an "alt dweeb", etc.
Some peplle will never be satisfied...
but at the same time that 262 is traveling at a high thus making the closure distance and rate for the potato guns very good thus giving increased range and usually that 262 has an element of surprise to it.
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Originally posted by Hazard69
I think the focus of this thread has been diverted.......
HO.....IF a HO oppurtunity arises IN THE MIDDLE of a fight.....take it. NO ONE WILL GRIPE ABOUT THAT!
What all the GRIPING IS ABOUT is that there are players whose only move in a FIGHT will BE A HEADON.
Now as for practicalities, almost any aicraft poses a advantage in a HO agaiinst a zeke, for resons like wingmounted guns, weak structure etc and so the HO can be used with minimal risk. How many HOs have been done against KI61s, with the 20mms being inline? Or for that matter even with wing mounted guns, almost no one will HO a P47 or a 190? Heck most even avoid my P38? Why do you think that is?
HO is a tactic, but is meant to be used as a secondary tactic, when no other choice or an open window appears, not as a way to fight the fight.
OF COURSE at the end of the day, its your game n you have a right to have fun, so the final decision is yours. SOme have fun by winning, some have fun fighting.........AND YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FIGHTING AND WINNING.
dude the ho'ing we are stateing is the guy that lines up from 5k ho's you and runs then comes back lines up at 5k and ho's you. And yes HO WAS A TACTIC but in WW2 the HO's they did were from High 12 diving in or coming up on em not going dead 12 and ramming you... only time they did that usually was when a 38 pilot would do it to scare the zeke to turn so he could get on its six and shoot it down. Also, you think the HO'ing noob cares what you are flying??I've been HO'd by almost every fighter in every fighter and i usually due to my uber connection.
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Originally posted by SKJohn
Sorry about having an opinion - I'll try not to let it happen again. . . .:(
Nothing wrong with having an opinion but having an opinion doesn't necessarily mean you're right.
ack-ack
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AKAK where you been bro? You know I save that Special-K HO for you! Nice to see you! >>>S<<< Z6 :noid
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Originally posted by ZULU6
AKAK where you been bro? You know I save that Special-K HO for you! Nice to see you! >>>S<<< Z6 :noid
Been busy with real life stuff and don't have the time or the motiviation to play that much anymore. Hopefully when things settle down I'll be playing more. As always Z6, great seein' you again
ack-ack
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HO in my Jug !!! I gave those up eons ago . Its better to avoid or risk the dweeb ho spraying and praying while making the merge turn on them and addin more lead to there ride..
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if you can HO me,i'm not mad at you ..i'm mad at me.on the merge i expect you to try and maneuver accordingly.however if you do try you are telling me from the jump...you're not very good and with the power of almighty SNOOP DOGG i will smack my HO down.:lol
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
To players such as yourself that lack any sort of skill to do anything but HO, may you always be labeled for the skilless dweeb twits you are. Cheers.
ack-ack
:aok
And any HO's in the real war weren't the gamey jousting matches that go on in here... they were front quarter shots, like dud said. HO'n was one of hte preferred methods of attack against buffs, but that's a little different....
P.S.
learn how to fight
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Originally posted by SKJohn
Sort of an AH elitist, snobbish attitude that says "if you don't fight the way I want you to, you must be a dweeb!"
Yet those same AH elitist, snobbish fellows will devote hours upon hours upon hours helping complete newbies who actually do want to learn how to earn a six-shot.
Still, as others said, if HOing is fun for you, go ahead. Thing is, if one could be bothered to learn other aspects of this game, I'd bet their overall fun would increase.
Of course, I might just be crazy.
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vudak,YOU SO CRAZZZZY. lol
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Originally posted by Happy1
U'll find that the HO was used successfully by allied P40, P39 & P38 pilots, such as BONG, WATKINS & too many others
to mention.
This tactic is NOT a dweeb tactic but was used by ALL, thereby whining & complaining about HO used extensively in AH2 shows SOME peoples' igno-
rance & NOT based on facts but rather their own likes & dislikes.
Yeah, but is this world war two? No it's a game, dude, we're not fighting for our lives or our countries freedom, we're playing to have fun. I really don't see what's fun about ho'ing, I mean, you just denied an opportunity for a good fight if you ho'd him, or you just set yourself up for the kill if he knows what he's doing.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Nothing wrong with having an opinion but having an opinion doesn't necessarily mean you're right.
ack-ack
I couldn't agree with you more! This whole argument about HOing is nothing more than people's opinions. Of course, everybody thinks their own opinion is the correct one - both those for and those against the HO.
There is no way to "prove" that HOing is either bad or good - so as others have already said (in their own opinions), everybody should fly the way they want and don't complain about others doing the same thing.
(I still say it (HO'ing) never would have been an issue if it had also been enabled in Air Warrior - but that's just my opinion!:) )
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Again, if you want to avoid others HOing u, just break the contact. It is very easy to avoid a HO in any fighter. Remember, it takes two to perform a Head-on. I understand people complaining about it but you will not ever be able to change their ways. Conclusion? Practice your skills in avoiding the Head-on, and live your fun here.
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I don't mind passing in a head on maneuver, but does EVERYONE have to shoot? :huh That the "dweebery" that bugs me. A lot of moves your trying to pull around and drop in to a positon to take advantage of a poor turn, or some other mistake the enemy plane has made, and the enemy knows they blew it and goes strait for the "guns a blazin" HO hoping to avoid the ram and making you break your attack so they have a few more seconds before they get there new plane :)