Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on March 17, 2006, 04:31:11 PM
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From a Gundog training board I frequent, talking about banning blank guns in England:
On a note in general, about 'Blank Firing devices', it is very likely that under the new Violent Crime Reduction Bill, being entered for parliament this summer, that All BLANK firing pistols, including starting pistols and replicas, will be banned.
If you have them, you will only be able to use them in non public places. The sale, manufacture and importation will be prohibited. This will affect dog trainers, re-enactment societies, athletics and many many others who may normally use these now.
According to the whitepapers that I have seen, breaking the rules after the ban is entered will result in a firearms offence being considered against the 'bad guy' !
I suppose it all hinges on how "public places" are defined. This could pretty much do away with a lot of the inexpensive aspects of dog training.
I suppose the trainers will have to go ahead and use a shotgun round after this.
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The fish are well fed, and are not biting today. :D
Toodle Pip! :p
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Why the facination with the UK? :p
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Those who fail to learn by history are doomed to repeat it... It is good to watch where socialism will lead so that we can avoid it.
You guys need that vendetta guy to set things straight.
lazs
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Originally posted by Curval
Why the facination with the UK? :p
I care about my rights here in the US, and it seems that whatever nannyness goes on the UK usually finds it's way over here.
They said it can never happen here but it's happend all over the world.
Europe allready has limited free speech as well several laws here in the US are trying to limit free speech as well.
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The word BANG when spoken in a loud voice is surely to follow. :aok
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I care about my rights here in the US, and it seems that whatever nannyness goes on the UK usually finds it's way over here.
They said it can never happen here but it's happend all over the world.
Europe allready has limited free speech as well several laws here in the US are trying to limit free speech as well.
See, normally in any gun thread the Americans involved constantly wonder why Beet1e, myself and a few others are so fascinated with guns in the US. It is sort of a "mind your own business" jab. This despite both Beet1e and my claims that neither of us have suggested guns be made illegal in the US, just that we both would rather not have freely distributed guns in our own respective countries.
So, consider yourself jabbed.
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Curval,
Would you consider that there is no danger from responsible gun ownership and that in the worst case scenario a gun can garuntee your right to live like no other tool can?
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Curval,
Would you consider that there is no danger from responsible gun ownership and that in the worst case scenario a gun can garuntee your right to live like no other tool can?
I have no need to consider it at all. I don't want guns to be made freely available to the inhabitants of the island I live on. If you want to shoot guns you can go join the gun club.
It's that simple.
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A couple major areas of the arguement. One being the the responsible use of a product and the other where the tool is the garuntee of equality should you face someone who has a higher regard for your assets than your a88.
Given the ideal of anyone who possess a firearm has demonstrated proper regard for the tool would you still oppose them possessing it even though they pose no risk to you?
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Given the ideal of anyone who possess a firearm has demonstrated proper regard for the tool would you still oppose them possessing it even though they pose no risk to you?
No.
Fact is though if guns were freely available then:
1. Crimminals would be bound to have greater access to them. Many crimes are sure to be committed by those who stole them from the said "responsible" owners. In effect they DO indeed pose a risk to me and my family.
2. We have not had ONE accidental death or death resulting from missing an intended target that I am aware of...at least in my lifetime. Again, this DOES pose a risk to me and my family.
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My mother-in-law is Czech. Pre-WWII (just) refugee; got out with her parents during the sudatenland snatch by Germany.
This doddering old female summed it up quite well:
"I pray you don't need a gun, they are terrible things. But, when you do, if you don't have it you don't have any choices at all. You must flee, do what you can to save your family. It does not help for only some of the people to have guns.. there were only 4 in our whole village. With those, against germans, we could not fight. We left. Our village died, our lands were lost... a very sad time."
I doubt Bermuda will ever see the things Granma saw. But truth is TRUTH, and she nailed it.
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Originally posted by Curval
I have no need to consider it at all. I don't want guns to be made freely available to the inhabitants of the island I live on. If you want to shoot guns you can go join the gun club.
It's that simple.
So in other words, you don't like them so no one else where you live should have them either. Got it.
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You also live on an island in the middle of nowhere which is smaller than most towns.
Unless it has changed there isn't much of any crime since everyone knows each other and there is no place to hide. Also, your price points keep out the vast majority of those who would be likely to commit crimes in the first place. I'd bet that even if you had a must issue law there would still be a very low instance of crime.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
My mother-in-law is Czech. Pre-WWII (just) refugee; got out with her parents during the sudatenland snatch by Germany.
This doddering old female summed it up quite well:
"I pray you don't need a gun, they are terrible things. But, when you do, if you don't have it you don't have any choices at all. You must flee, do what you can to save your family. It does not help for only some of the people to have guns.. there were only 4 in our whole village. With those, against germans, we could not fight. We left. Our village died, our lands were lost... a very sad time."
I doubt Bermuda will ever see the things Granma saw. But truth is TRUTH, and she nailed it.
LOL...no justification for guns here at all in your post Hang. Sorry.
What SLAYS me is that you guys fire guns 99.9% of the time for recreational purposes. Yet you always point out how defenseless this makes me, and Beet1e. It makes me a victim, a socialist, a wimp, a racist (yup that one was "shot" at me in a thread one time), an elitest, a subject etc etc etc.
There are millions of US residents, many of whom regularly post here (including our benevolent administrator) who also do not own a gun yet none of those tags are applied to them. Wonder why that is?
Now I am to be concerned about Nazis invading and my lack of guns leading directly to a gas chamber. It is just ridiculous.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
You also live on an island in the middle of nowhere which is smaller than most towns.
Unless it has changed there isn't much of any crime since everyone knows each other and there is no place to hide. Also, your price points keep out the vast majority of those who would be likely to commit crimes in the first place. I'd bet that even if you had a must issue law there would still be a very low instance of crime.
Fine. No argument here....just please stop telling me I need a gun. I don't.
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Originally posted by Maverick
So in other words, you don't like them so no one else where you live should have them either. Got it.
Not just me. I will bet you a million dollars that anyone you should ask on the street will say the same thing. This isn't America and we don't have a gun culture here.
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I suspect curvie has the same 'bad elements' we've got.. in every population group, there's always the 'bad seeds'. There's guns on his island, and more than a few are doubtless in the hands of people he really doesn't want to know...
and we can all hope the day never comes when that islands food and fuel imports get cut off, because those will be the days when curvie and his family discovers just how bad an idea it was to not have one himself.
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Curvie,
I would never tell you that you should own one but ask that you respect that others may.
The root of this position is that freedom is a good thing. A foundation of a society is best built on trust and respect with those who can not honor those foundations be dealt with but not at the expense of all.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I suspect curvie has the same 'bad elements' we've got.. in every population group, there's always the 'bad seeds'. There's guns on his island, and more than a few are doubtless in the hands of people he really doesn't want to know...
and we can all hope the day never comes when that islands food and fuel imports get cut off, because those will be the days when curvie and his family discovers just how bad an idea it was to not have one himself.
So, I will worry about the day when our food and fuel runs out...while you will have to make sure you are packing when you head out to Dennys.
Fine by me.
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Wow Curval, yet again you hijack a thread and make it about American firearm issues.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Curvie,
I would never tell you that you should own one but ask that you respect that others may.
The root of this position is that freedom is a good thing. A foundation of a society is best built on trust and respect with those who can not honor those foundations be dealt with but not at the expense of all.
I respect American's rights to own and carry whatever they like. I don't have to worry about those who "want to" here because it simply isn't permitted. I like that and feel safer. If someone feels the need to go shoot guns they can join a gun club. It isn't just me, it is the whole country that feels this way...except maybe for the crimminals who hate the fact that getting their hands on guns is very very difficult and the penalties for having or using one are extremely severe.
We aren't Americans and we don't want people walking around armed. Like it or not that is the way it is here. I'm sure the concept is foreign to you but perhaps that is because...it is foreign to you. Can you respect that?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Wow Curval, yet again you hijack a thread and make it about American firearm issues.
Pay attention Thrawn. This thread has become about Bermudian firearm issues...or lack thereof.
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No argument here....just please stop telling me I need a gun. I don't.
We know curval. Subjects don't need guns.
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For the most part I can respect that...
I oppose seatbelt laws and most any other that intrudes on ones liberties as well. I wear a seatbelt and agree that it is safer than not but it still does not make it a government issue. In my book one should not trust a government that does not trust you. Just because statistics show something is safer one way or another does not mean that society should be be subjected to it. I don't mind your island doing what it does but I would not live there.
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Originally posted by Curval
Pay attention Thrawn.
Hells no.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
For the most part I can respect that...
I oppose seatbelt laws and most any other that intrudes on ones liberties as well. I wear a seatbelt and agree that it is safer than not but it still does not make it a government issue. In my book one should not trust a government that does not trust you. Just because statistics show something is safer one way or another does not mean that society should be be subjected to it. I don't mind your island doing what it does but I would not live there.
Fine.
Just curious though. By wearing that seatbelt and obeying the LAW that makes it mandatory for you to wear it, does it make you a subject? Aren't you just conforming? Shouldn't you be marching on Washington and yelling from the rooftops that your civil liberties are being violated?
No?
Welcome to the club then.:aok
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Curvie, nothing is gained or lost by wearing or not wearing a seatbelt except for your own personal safety. If you wear a seatbelt, it doesn't effect anything else.
The one thing that would be lost by not wearing a seatbelt is 150 dollar fine because the government wants money. Whether or not it's a real punishment doesn't matter because they will get their money.
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That isn't the point. How DARE the government suggest you, as Americans, should have to wear one? It is a clear violation of your personal freedom to choose. It all the more an affront to your rights as it in no way impinges upon anyone else.
Off you go to Washington wrapped up in the Stars and Stripes old fellow. You TELL the man you ain't gonna stand for it.:aok
Do you wear one laser? I certainly hope not, otherwise I'd have to call you a subject.:eek:
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Yes, I do believe the government has over stepped his bounds. But then again I believe the government has long since been corrupt.
Btw, I choose to wear a seat belt because I believe it will save me and I'd rather like to live. Just this past weekends a student at my U died because she was in a car accident and wasn't wearing a seatbelt.
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curval.... you say that we say not having a gun makes you a wimp....
not so.... like the fat lady... it isn't the dress that makes her look fat.
lazs
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:cry
The guy who cleans up poopy water for a living thinks I'm a wimp. I'm crushed becuase poopy water cleaners opinions are really really important.
:rolleyes:
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Back to the original topic of the post, I'm curious to hear from Curval, Beet, Furball, other brits, if this indeed is going too far?
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Originally posted by Curval
So, I will worry about the day when our food and fuel runs out...while you will have to make sure you are packing when you head out to Dennys.
Fine by me.
Horsepucky. A very very small percentage of the American Public ventures out in day to day life packing a firearm. I'd venture to guess less than half of one percent. The exceeding majority of those that DO venture out armed don't do so because they HAVE to, they do because they WANT to.
In this posting situation you've just taken a step beyond simple reason and common sense and painted with an incredibly wide brush in one sentance the implication that everybody in this country is walking around at extreme risk WITH or WITHOUT a gun and THAT has just pegged my Bull**** Meter.
No score, Curvie.
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They WANT to?
Why? To feel tough?
It's funny because my 4 year old answers many questions asked of him with "I Like to" when he is asked "Why" he did/does something. That is pretty much like your response. I wonder if you pout like him.
Sorry if my response pegged your meter....mine was pegged twice in this thread. One with your nazi analogy and the other with your implication that we will run out of food and fuel here and that THEN I will be sorry.
ROFLMAO!!!!
I used the Dennys example because there have been 3 shootings at 3 Dennys in Southern California in the past few days. Not sure why...I think they serve an awesome breakfast at a great price.
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Originally posted by Curval
They WANT to?
Why? To feel tough?
It's funny because my 4 year old answers many questions asked of him with "I Like to" when he is asked "Why" he did/does something. That is pretty much like your response. I wonder if you pout like him.
Now your just being an *******.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Now your just being an *******.
Why? Because I WANT to.:rofl
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Curvie, I can't get through to yah.. I've never insulted your intelligence to my knowledge; however, since you can't or won't on this subject use reason then I'm forced to make the assumption that you are either ignorant or a very prejudiced person with regards to americans and their gun rights.
Item.. we saw as recently as katrina what happens to 'law and order' when the food and fuel chain is disrupted. That's TRUTH. Item.. the right to keep and bear arms is a right here still, and your disdain for the practice does not in the least concern me.. contrary to your analogy, I do not 'pout'.
Denny's and shootings are not linked in any place short of your mind; but then again; your impressions of our day to day lives are no doubt as inaccurate as ours are of yours. I have to assume that if you had a brain, and your neighorhood denny's was a hang out for armed gangbangers you'd probably elect to at least change you eat-out menu if not move the hell outta that neighborhood entirely. That's IF you had a brain.
Since there is no cure for prejudice or stupidity short of death, I'll leave yer commentary alone from now on; now knowing full well that prejudice seems to color your responses to gunowners here on these boards.
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Originally posted by Curval
Why? Because I WANT to.:rofl
Oh, how clever, it was an object lesson all along then eh. :rolleyes:
I can't believe that you think "Because I like too." isn't a great reason to do tons of things. Perhaps your kid says that because he doesn't know how better to express himself, doesn't mean it isn't a valid reason.
Why do or did you play Aces High? Why parasail, why golf, why tons of things.
At least the Yanks have a choice in the matter. You don't like the idea of carrying guns, well your and my governments don't give a damn if we do or don't.
Like that guy said, "Best lie back and enjoy it, it's going to happen anyway.".