Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: WhiteHawk on March 17, 2006, 09:03:44 PM
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And the looting of the america continues....Now we know why monop[olies are illegal.
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its a terror attack in the U.S. economically:furious
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Jumped 10% last weekend...must've been a critical refinery shutdown. Those damned phetzer valves keep going out!
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At least we can sleep nights knowing that none of our elected leaders have huge stakes in the oil biz.
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guys with heart trouble can't have huge steaks
try again tovarich
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Originally posted by rpm
At least we can sleep nights knowing that none of our elected leaders have huge stakes in the oil biz.
Yea, that would make me a bit suspicious.
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Park all of the SUV's with One person in them and that would cut the Demand by 50%
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The news said the price increase was due to the change over from 'winter' gas to 'summer' gas. How long has been 'winter' gas been around?
sounds like another lame excuse to rip off the consummer.
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The part that drives me crazy is that gas keeps jumping up and down 20 cents every other day here for the last few weeks....anywhere from 2.29 to 2.62, back and forth. No steady increase, no steady decline...just jumping madly around for no apparent reason.
And of course I always catch the days that it jumps.
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(http://www.slick.com/new/articles/editorials/osama7eleven.gif)
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
The news said the price increase was due to the change over from 'winter' gas to 'summer' gas. How long has been 'winter' gas been around?
sounds like another lame excuse to rip off the consummer.
Winter gas has been around for DECADES.
Gasoline in the states is formulated for the seasons, both for consumer convenience, and for emissions purposes. Compounding that issue is the boutique gas that the EPA requires for certain cities and regions, noty only does the city or region require something special, but the seasons in that city or region require something else special as well. If you actually believe gasoline is gasoline, and it is all the same, you are very sadly mistaken.
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Originally posted by Fury
The part that drives me crazy is that gas keeps jumping up and down 20 cents every other day here for the last few weeks....anywhere from 2.29 to 2.62, back and forth. No steady increase, no steady decline...just jumping madly around for no apparent reason.
And of course I always catch the days that it jumps.
Blame that on the little suit wearing goobers infesting offices all over the world, speculating on oil, hoping to make a fast buck, for no work at all, regardless of the cost to the world economy.
The same applies to all commodities, but oil is possibly the most volatile commodity there is, and as such, the commodity speculating makes the price of oil fluctuate wildly.
There is no apparent reason. Chavez makes some absurd statement, the little pencil neck goobers go speculating. A small fire at a refinery, and the goobers go speculating. China says they need more oil, the goobers go speculating. Every little event causes them to go speculating. Every time they go speculating, you pay for it.
Supply and demand also effects it.
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(http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_chart.gif)
Typically, the demand for gas spikes during the summer, when lots of people go on vacation. Holidays like Memorial Day and the Fourth of July create logjams of tourist traffic during the summer. This high demand usually translates into higher gasoline prices, although that's not always the case. For instance, while gas prices soared 31 cents in April and early May of 2001, reaching $1.71 per gallon, prices actually declined during the 2001 summer. In 2004, prices continued to rise past the end of the summer travel season for a variety of reasons, including several hurricanes and an increase in the price of crude oil.
Price increases generally occur when the world crude-oil market tightens and lowers inventories. We will discuss who controls the crude-oil market later. Also, growing demand can sometimes outpace refinery capacity. In the spring, refineries perform maintenance, which can place a pinch on the gasoline market. By the end of May, refineries are usually back to full capacity.
http://travel.howstuffworks.com/gas-price1.htm
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If you'll notice, all the different gas stations prices pretty much raise and fall exactly the same. Impossible to do unless carefully coordinated. Gas is not usually the big profit maker for individually owned stations, so the 'penny less' wars would have ordinarily started by now and the gas prices would find thier natural 'supply demand' point due to competition. Record breaking profits for the oil companies is concrete proof that the price of a gallon of gas is rising disproportionatley to cost of producing it. Now, every business has a right to make as much money as it can, so long as it operates within the rules of this 'once great' nation. I would say from afar, that price fixing is in full swing and this summer is going to bring 4.00 a gallon gas due to some crisis, or 'demand spike' from china. Like the man said, i'm sure our elected officials are feverishly working to find the culprits and bring them to justice.:rofl
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
If you'll notice, all the different gas stations prices pretty much raise and fall exactly the same. Impossible to do unless carefully coordinated.
Free market supply and demand allows for a overall price rise. If demand remains heavy the price goes up until demand levels off. If demand remains strong the price continues to rise.
If my gas station is across the street from yours I cannot ask 10 cents a gallon more than you without effecting my sales volume, but a couple of cents won't make that much difference. Especially when you look at my price sign and realise you can raise your prices and make more money too.
We have just conspired to raise gas prices without planning to or even speaking to each other about it.
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American petrol prices are to go up. ....thank god for that ...thought for a second the Uk prices were going up even more!
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Has the change-over from "winter" gas for "summer" gas been completed yet?
They must be having a problem in the change over because the gas prices here continue to rise. I do hope our administration gets a handle on this.
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Up to $2.80 around here. :(
Even on the res I think its only $2.50.
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Blame that on the little suit wearing goobers infesting offices all over the world, speculating on oil, hoping to make a fast buck, for no work at all, regardless of the cost to the world economy.
No work at all? Unfortunately, prices don't always increase. What if the price goes down...?
Sounds to me like quite a risky business.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Free market supply and demand allows for a overall price rise. If demand remains heavy the price goes up until demand levels off. If demand remains strong the price continues to rise.
If my gas station is across the street from yours I cannot ask 10 cents a gallon more than you without effecting my sales volume, but a couple of cents won't make that much difference. Especially when you look at my price sign and realise you can raise your prices and make more money too.
We have just conspired to raise gas prices without planning to or even speaking to each other about it.
Except gasoline is an inelastic good... when you need gas you need gas. Most cars don't run on blood or corn oil. So the price goes up, demand stays the same, profits increase. Price goes up even more, demand stays the same, profits increase even more.
I'd love to get my hands on profit MARGIN data. Profit data isn't all that useful, of course gas companies are posting record profits.. there is more gas being used around the world. The profit margins tell the story of how bad we are being gouged.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Except gasoline is an inelastic good... when you need gas you need gas. Most cars don't run on blood or corn oil. So the price goes up, demand stays the same, profits increase. Price goes up even more, demand stays the same, profits increase even more.
I'd love to get my hands on profit MARGIN data. Profit data isn't all that useful, of course gas companies are posting record profits.. there is more gas being used around the world. The profit margins tell the story of how bad we are being gouged.
The profit margin is very good. My stock portfolio would show you. :)
Sure I pay more for fuel, but the mutuals that are diversified with stock from oil companies are doing very well and outweigh the cost that I spend on fuel.
Here is a tip, invest in companies that do exploratory oil research or those companies that supplies raw material to building more refineries and oil platforms. Good money to come in the future with those companies. They'll be looking for more oil before a significant alternative fuel becomes available so you might as well reap the benefits.
I remember the early 90's when everyone hated Microsoft because they were more or less forced to use their products. MS stock was VERY good to me during their run :aok
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Well, I'm happy you are doing so well, but unfortunately I'm in the 60% of the population who doesn't own any stock.
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Originally posted by WhiteHawk
And the looting of the america continues....Now we know why monop[olies are illegal.
Technically, it's not a monopoly. It's an oligopoly. ;)
I think the only real monopoly in this country is the U.S. Postal Service.
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Urchin,
Try investing. I started with an investment management company that let me start with $200 deposit and $50/month additional, as long as it was a direct automatic withdrawl from my checking account. If you've bought any "luxury" goods in the last year (tv, vcr, whatever), then you have no excuse to not have any investments.
Everyone whines about not being able to invest, but 99% of those whiners own a tv. Well, duh. If you buy luxuries before taking care of your financial security, you deserve to remain poor. Nothing personal Urchin because you're not any different from about 80% of the people in the US, but unless you are on welfare and rely on food stamps and subsidized housing to live, or you have suffered a personal disaster such as a long term health problem or a massive financial loss not covered by insurance (uninsured home burning down for example) there really are few legitimate excuses for not having SOME investments, even if they are small.
I started with that $200 plus $50/month... My parents started with less using a regular savings account until they had enough to invest. Yea they used a really old crappy TV that they bought used, we ate whatever happened to be on sale because they'd stock the freezer with discount ground beef and chicken whenever the monthly sales hit, and they didn't buy a new car until they'd been married for 12 years, but the sacrifices kept them out of debt and let them start investing. A few years of sacrifices and by the time me and my siblings were ready for college, they were financially set to help us get college educations.
Nobody on this board should be complaining about not being able to invest... If you're that strapped for cash, sell your stinking computer and put the money in the bank. Then get another job using the time you used to spend online.
Or not, because it's too easy and fun to join the herd and blame boosh or whatever the current whiner's excuse is.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I think the only real monopoly in this country is the U.S. Postal Service.
Not really, they have Fed Ex and UPS for competition.
But their real competition is the one they will never be able to compete with the very medium you are using now.
Couldnt tell you the last time I wrote a letter and sent it to anyone by snailmail. There are now one or two bills or other paper based other items I send out by Postal mail per month now as opposed to even a year ago. For me personally thats a 75% drop.
Everything else is done electronically.
To get slightly back on topic.
Notice all the coverage the rising gas prices are and will be getting in the media.
Then when prices flatten or drop off. Notice the curious absence of media coverage it will get.
Oh you may see an article here and there. But there will be far far far less coverage from any media outlet of dropping gas prices then rising ones.
Not exactly fair and balanced
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Originally posted by eagl
Urchin,
Try investing. I started with an investment management company that let me start with $200 deposit and $50/month additional, as long as it was a direct automatic withdrawl from my checking account. If you've bought any "luxury" goods in the last year (tv, vcr, whatever), then you have no excuse to not have any investments.
Everyone whines about not being able to invest, but 99% of those whiners own a tv. Well, duh. If you buy luxuries before taking care of your financial security, you deserve to remain poor. Nothing personal Urchin because you're not any different from about 80% of the people in the US, but unless you are on welfare and rely on food stamps and subsidized housing to live, or you have suffered a personal disaster such as a long term health problem or a massive financial loss not covered by insurance (uninsured home burning down for example) there really are few legitimate excuses for not having SOME investments, even if they are small.
I started with that $200 plus $50/month... My parents started with less using a regular savings account until they had enough to invest. Yea they used a really old crappy TV that they bought used, we ate whatever happened to be on sale because they'd stock the freezer with discount ground beef and chicken whenever the monthly sales hit, and they didn't buy a new car until they'd been married for 12 years, but the sacrifices kept them out of debt and let them start investing. A few years of sacrifices and by the time me and my siblings were ready for college, they were financially set to help us get college educations.
Nobody on this board should be complaining about not being able to invest... If you're that strapped for cash, sell your stinking computer and put the money in the bank. Then get another job using the time you used to spend online.
Or not, because it's too easy and fun to join the herd and blame boosh or whatever the current whiner's excuse is.
Everything is Booshes fault. Dont you know that by now? (insert old eyeroll emoticon here)
But really I think the problem isnt as much not being able to invest as not knowing how to get started. Or how little money you can get started with
(note I didnt say how much money you need to get started)
I know outside of my Vanguard account which was set up bythe last real job I had, I've been wanting to invest a small amount and buy some stocks just to get started with.
I just dont know how to go about it or how it works.
I think that is the problem most people have.
Remember. for some folks here $100 or even $1,000 is pocket money.
For a good deal more and probably the vast majority $100 or $1,000 is the difference between being able to pay the bills and buying food for the month or going hungry or further into debt.
I've been on both ends of the spectrum. I had a period in time about 20 years ago where I could simply walk into a store and if I saw something I wanted all I needed to do was point at it pay cash and say "mine"
Just too bad I was too young and inexperianced ot realise that in my line of work that kind of prosperity doesnt always last and often comes in waves. Also I didnt have the added expence of a house and two kids either or I would have invested and pissed my money away more wisely then.
But speaking from that experiance. I know that when you are parth of the haves, that is when you have money to blow like that. ITs hard to see or relate, or understand how other people might not.
Its not intentional thoughts but you feel like. "when I have it to spend, Why dont you?"
And its harder to see how what only seems like a few dollars to you, can be such a burdon for someone else
I'd almost be willing to bet you could start with less then $100 and just buy some basic stuff for starters and go on from there. But few people know how to go about it.
I know I am one of them.
Now if you telll me that your going to need at least $1,000 to get started then I'd have to say its a safe bet that not alot of people can do it as there are alot of people that simply dont have an extra grand laying around at once to invest and if they do come into a thousand dollars its usually going to be used to pay off old bills. Or almost as likely Buy some luxury item which everyone should be able to do at least a little of just to feel human and to get some pleasure out of life rather then feel like all they are doing is working to pay bills.
But reguardless of the amount of money anyone has who isnt investing. I think the larger problem oputside of opening a regular bank account is simply knowing how to go about getting started
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Originally posted by eagl
Urchin,
Try investing. I started with an investment management company that let me start with $200 deposit and $50/month additional, as long as it was a direct automatic withdrawl from my checking account. If you've bought any "luxury" goods in the last year (tv, vcr, whatever), then you have no excuse to not have any investments.
Everyone whines about not being able to invest, but 99% of those whiners own a tv. Well, duh. If you buy luxuries before taking care of your financial security, you deserve to remain poor. Nothing personal Urchin because you're not any different from about 80% of the people in the US, but unless you are on welfare and rely on food stamps and subsidized housing to live, or you have suffered a personal disaster such as a long term health problem or a massive financial loss not covered by insurance (uninsured home burning down for example) there really are few legitimate excuses for not having SOME investments, even if they are small.
I started with that $200 plus $50/month... My parents started with less using a regular savings account until they had enough to invest. Yea they used a really old crappy TV that they bought used, we ate whatever happened to be on sale because they'd stock the freezer with discount ground beef and chicken whenever the monthly sales hit, and they didn't buy a new car until they'd been married for 12 years, but the sacrifices kept them out of debt and let them start investing. A few years of sacrifices and by the time me and my siblings were ready for college, they were financially set to help us get college educations.
Nobody on this board should be complaining about not being able to invest... If you're that strapped for cash, sell your stinking computer and put the money in the bank. Then get another job using the time you used to spend online.
Or not, because it's too easy and fun to join the herd and blame boosh or whatever the current whiner's excuse is.
My father gave this speech to me for several years! I finally started investing when I was 30 (Wish I'd done it earlier!) Instead of a car payment, I had an "Investment payment" whether it was property or a voluntary investment plan with my employer. Good advice, Eagl.
The top rung of the financial success ladder is out there for everyone to achieve, you have to be willing to make sacrifices and take that first step.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Not really, they have Fed Ex and UPS for competition.
Except for 1st Class postage, you're right.
It is illegal for anyone other than the USPS to use your mail box for delivery. Rather odd because we bought the mailboxes with our money and it's on our property.
... but that's another topic. :)
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Originally posted by Sandman
Except for 1st Class postage, you're right.
It is illegal for anyone other than the USPS to use your mail box for delivery. Rather odd because we bought the mailboxes with our money and it's on our property.
... but that's another topic. :)
BUSH'S FAULT!
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sorry, too tempting. :)
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Don't invest in "stocks" if your just starting out, invest in a "fund".
Fund's will diversify your investment into more then one "stock", which will reduce your risk.
Always reinvest any dividends, as this is what really adds up after time.
You would very suprised to find out how little it takes to get started.
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It's always easier for the guys with money to talk.
We're taking it in the shorts. Cut and friggin dried. Oil execs and companies getting rich off the people that HAVE to drive to work.
Holler about SUV this and SUV that and all that B.C.. Bottom line is oil business is getting filthy frikin rich off the normal consumer.
SOME PEOPLE don't have money to invest. They work and get by as best they can. They don't drive BMW's or the big EXPEDITIONS or ESCALADES and dine out at 30.00 a person restaurants.
The NORMAL everyday American person is getting screwed. So take all that investment bullchit talk and cram it.
Politicans , Oil execs , and the like will just keep screwin us. NOW and ALWAYS.
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^^ what he said
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Originally posted by RedTop
It's always easier for the guys with money to talk.
We're taking it in the shorts. Cut and friggin dried. Oil execs and companies getting rich off the people that HAVE to drive to work.
Holler about SUV this and SUV that and all that B.C.. Bottom line is oil business is getting filthy frikin rich off the normal consumer.
SOME PEOPLE don't have money to invest. They work and get by as best they can. They don't drive BMW's or the big EXPEDITIONS or ESCALADES and dine out at 30.00 a person restaurants.
The NORMAL everyday American person is getting screwed. So take all that investment bullchit talk and cram it.
Politicans , Oil execs , and the like will just keep screwin us. NOW and ALWAYS.
umm- I took home (before taxes) 15.5 k last year. No that is not a mistype.
you need very little money to invest, but you need to make that commitment.
O , and 10 % profit margin is not that much. If your gonna ***** about the Oil company profits, ya might as well ***** about McDonalds profit margin
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What good is being rich if you don't brag about it?
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I started out with nothing. My parents started out with nothing. My grandparents started out with less than nothing, coming from a farm that went bankrupt.
Don't give me that whiny crap about how "it's easy for people with money to talk"... A lot of "people with money", like my entire family, started with zip, zero, nada. Nothing. Everything they got they got by carefully saving everything they could, shopping bargains and sales exclusively, and not being mindless consumers, spending every dime they got on luxuries. They saved what they didn't spend, and carefully worked their way up from nothing.
My Dad started as a seasonal roofer and bottom of the pay scale assistant bottle washer at dupont. Then he made the big career decision to become a cop... Not exactly a luxury salary there. 4 kids and a cop salary, no big gifts from their parents or anything, but they refused to buy into the consumerism and saved instead. They paid into their first house ahead of schedule, and when they had a third kid they were able to remortgage the first house to make the down payment for the new larger house in a nicer neighborhood. When they had the 4th kid and needed a bigger house, they sold the first two to come up with the down payment on the new big house, also in a nice neighborhood. All of our neighbors drove mercedes and lexuses, and my Dad drove a 14 year old beat up pickup truck while my Mom drove a used hotel shuttle station wagon... Still could read "hilton" on the side where they took the stickers off. We ate spaghetti or some other ground beef meal 15 days a month, ate chicken of some sort for the other 15, because the supermarket had a ground beef sale and a chicken sale every month so they stocked a large deep freezer with sale items once a month.
My Mom made me shirts from bargain bin cloth until 6th grade.
By age 10, I started noticing my Dad browsing through money magazine and "mutual fund investor" magazine. I'd overhear him talking about his schwab account with my Mom. We were still eating sale food, but they had a schwab investment account. They finally bought a new car... With CASH, after they had saved enough to buy it without a loan. That decision alone, buying a $6,000 new car for cash instead of a loan, saved them over $2000 in interest charges.
Yea our TV was a used TV the neighbors were going to throw away when they got their big new sony, but it cost $40, not $400. $360 more into savings.
Don't cry and whine about how it's easy for people with money to talk about this stuff... People like me and my family started with less than EVERY ONE HERE and now we're all fairly comfortable. Heck, my older brother had 5 kids and is living on that same cop salary, and he owns a 3500 sq ft home and has no major debt but the house. How does he do it? He doesn't waste his money on consumer junk. He invests his income where it matters. If his kids need soccer shoes, he invests in new soccer shoes (the $40 ones, not the $200 nike air ones). But every single dollar he spends is an investment in his family and their future.
So quit whining about how hard it is, and take a long hard look at what you consider "essential" expenses. Got cable? Heh. Shaddup whiner. Ditch the cable and save the money. Got a shiny new computer? Heh, shaddup whiner. Nurse along your old computer and save the money. Eating out all the time? Heh, shaddup whiner. Buy some cheap chicken, rice, and veggies and eat healthier for 1/5th the cost, and save the difference. That's how I got my money, how everyone in my family got their money...
Oh yea, we didn't whine about not having money... We just worked and saved.
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Originally posted by Flit
umm- I took home (before taxes) 15.5 k last year. No that is not a mistype.
you need very little money to invest, but you need to make that commitment.
O , and 10 % profit margin is not that much. If your gonna ***** about the Oil company profits, ya might as well ***** about McDonalds profit margin
the difference being that one can make it easliy without ever going to a McD's, the same can't be said about a gas station
my guess is that you didn't invest much or if you did, you either live with your parents or an apartment full of room mates ..
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Originally posted by Debonair
What good is being rich if you don't brag about it?
lol
that is what is sounds like here... seem some like getting bent over at the pumps .. and then brag about it :)
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Originally posted by eagl
I started out with nothing. My parents started out with nothing. My grandparents started out with less than nothing, coming from a farm that went bankrupt.
So quit whining about how hard it is, and take a long hard look at what you consider "essential" expenses. Got cable? Heh. Shaddup whiner. Ditch the cable and save the money. Got a shiny new computer? Heh, shaddup whiner. Nurse along your old computer and save the money. Eating out all the time? Heh, shaddup whiner. Buy some cheap chicken, rice, and veggies and eat healthier for 1/5th the cost, and save the difference. That's how I got my money, how everyone in my family got their money...
Oh yea, we didn't whine about not having money... We just worked and saved.
And you STILL Havent explained to the laymen how to go about getting started.
You some kinda broker afraid you might loose out on a commission?
Insead of calling people names and scolding them. Why dont you try to be of some help?
I started out with almost nothing. Electric was turned off and the only food I had to eat in a 4 day period was a can of canned potatoes that I had to eat cold cause the stove I had was electric.
Ever eat cold Canned potatoes? Tastes like crap lemme tell ya.
I was a single step and about a week away from being homeless
Cant get much more from "nothing" then that
I eventually was able to land a job drying cars at a carwash drying cars with a bunch of immigrants (Half illegal)
And I worked and built my life up from there.
Since then I've both prospered and suffered. but never again gotten so low as that point in my life.
I'ts still sometimes a struggle to make ends meet but Im reasonably comfortable a good deal of the time now And occasionally have a few extra pennies to rub together that I (and Im sure a few others) would like to find something to invest in. The problem is we dont know how.
I've got a Vanguard fund already so thats covered.
Im sure a few other people might be in the situation.
But would like to try to do a little something beyond that.
Again. the problem is we dont, know how.
As for the extras. Cable, computer etc.
Remember. For some people here that may be the only source of simple pleasure they can afford.
The price of 1 person going out to dinner 1 night can buy you basic cable, or internet access for the whole month.
People need some sort of outlet too. just to feel like they are alive and not just existing
You say you came from nothing and you did it. And thats great. You deserve to feel proud about that fact. You earned it.
So why dont you help some of the other people who dont know how to get started, get started as opposed to scolding them for not doing so.
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Originally posted by Flit
Don't invest in "stocks" if your just starting out, invest in a "fund".
Fund's will diversify your investment into more then one "stock", which will reduce your risk.
Always reinvest any dividends, as this is what really adds up after time.
You would very suprised to find out how little it takes to get started.
yep,
500 bucks and 7 dollars for the first trade will get you in Scott Trade.
ETF's are good to get started on. for example EWJ is the ticker for Japan. Its $14.40 right now, up a dollar so far this year.
its easy
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Originally posted by eagl
I started out with nothing. My parents started out with nothing. My grandparents started out with less than nothing, coming from a farm that went bankrupt.
Don't give me that whiny crap about how "it's easy for people with money to talk"... A lot of "people with money", like my entire family, started with zip, zero, nada. Nothing. Everything they got they got by carefully saving everything they could, shopping bargains and sales exclusively, and not being mindless consumers, spending every dime they got on luxuries. They saved what they didn't spend, and carefully worked their way up from nothing.
My Dad started as a seasonal roofer and bottom of the pay scale assistant bottle washer at dupont. Then he made the big career decision to become a cop... Not exactly a luxury salary there. 4 kids and a cop salary, no big gifts from their parents or anything, but they refused to buy into the consumerism and saved instead. They paid into their first house ahead of schedule, and when they had a third kid they were able to remortgage the first house to make the down payment for the new larger house in a nicer neighborhood. When they had the 4th kid and needed a bigger house, they sold the first two to come up with the down payment on the new big house, also in a nice neighborhood. All of our neighbors drove mercedes and lexuses, and my Dad drove a 14 year old beat up pickup truck while my Mom drove a used hotel shuttle station wagon... Still could read "hilton" on the side where they took the stickers off. We ate spaghetti or some other ground beef meal 15 days a month, ate chicken of some sort for the other 15, because the supermarket had a ground beef sale and a chicken sale every month so they stocked a large deep freezer with sale items once a month.
My Mom made me shirts from bargain bin cloth until 6th grade.
By age 10, I started noticing my Dad browsing through money magazine and "mutual fund investor" magazine. I'd overhear him talking about his schwab account with my Mom. We were still eating sale food, but they had a schwab investment account. They finally bought a new car... With CASH, after they had saved enough to buy it without a loan. That decision alone, buying a $6,000 new car for cash instead of a loan, saved them over $2000 in interest charges.
Yea our TV was a used TV the neighbors were going to throw away when they got their big new sony, but it cost $40, not $400. $360 more into savings.
Don't cry and whine about how it's easy for people with money to talk about this stuff... People like me and my family started with less than EVERY ONE HERE and now we're all fairly comfortable. Heck, my older brother had 5 kids and is living on that same cop salary, and he owns a 3500 sq ft home and has no major debt but the house. How does he do it? He doesn't waste his money on consumer junk. He invests his income where it matters. If his kids need soccer shoes, he invests in new soccer shoes (the $40 ones, not the $200 nike air ones). But every single dollar he spends is an investment in his family and their future.
So quit whining about how hard it is, and take a long hard look at what you consider "essential" expenses. Got cable? Heh. Shaddup whiner. Ditch the cable and save the money. Got a shiny new computer? Heh, shaddup whiner. Nurse along your old computer and save the money. Eating out all the time? Heh, shaddup whiner. Buy some cheap chicken, rice, and veggies and eat healthier for 1/5th the cost, and save the difference. That's how I got my money, how everyone in my family got their money...
Oh yea, we didn't whine about not having money... We just worked and saved.
So what are you looking for? A pat on the back? Investing aint helping the normal everyday joe at the pump. We're getting screwed. You may think not , but I DO. And I am not whining. I hear this type of stuff all the time from people with money. I have enough money.
I have a nice retirment in the job I work. My wife has a nice rertirment when she quits. I have 0 ,thats right , 0 debt outside of my house and 2 cars. NO credit cards. No extra loans. Everything my wife and I have in our home is paid for. We have a few 1000 dollars in the bank. We have a 401k we put money into.
I have been at a time in my life when I couldn't afford a gallon of milk for my family. Tough times? I been there and done that. I worked my butt off just like you and your family did. I supplied a home for my family when they needed it at times. I supplied a home for my mother when she was sick and dieing from cancer. I supplied all that I could and then some for along time.
So to think I am whining is a HUGE stretch.
Bottom line is , I don't like taking it in the shorts for nothing. I don't like seeing people I know begin to wonder how they will make ends meet when thier gas budget for going to work is taking a HUGE hit.
They try just as hard as anyone else to get ahead. The sacrifice just like you did. Just like I did. Don't sit there and pretend you know my circumstance at all. Cause you know nothing about me.
Gas companies are making record profits. The people , who try hard and work hard and try to do the right things are still paying 2-3 dollars a gallon for gas.
Government aint gonna try to help cause they have an interest in them making money. Oil companies spin numbers all they want to make it look like they dont have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. Its Bull CRAP and the american people have to smell it.
So spare me the whinning comments about how we should all jump in the market and take a chance. Spare me the I walked up hill to school barfooted and struggled my whole life routine. Your not the only one. Many have done it long before you and many will do it after you. And ME for that matter.
If you don't see us getting screwed in the gas prices , cause YOU can afford to pay whatever...then so be it. I see it different.
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Originally posted by Flit
umm- I took home (before taxes) 15.5 k last year. No that is not a mistype.
you need very little money to invest, but you need to make that commitment.
O , and 10 % profit margin is not that much. If your gonna ***** about the Oil company profits, ya might as well ***** about McDonalds profit margin
It's my RIGHT to gripe about whatever I want. This thread was about gas prices. Not a seminar on Investing 101 or how I got rich on nothing. I don't give a crap about how people make thier money.
I DO care about friends and folks getting hammered at the pumps. What is so hard about that?
you took 15K home? GREAT for you. You make 500.00 or 50000.00 in the stock marlet last year? Good for you.
Ya paying 2-3 dollars a gallon for gas? You think that exxon mobile made it to the top of the fortune 500 list , just recently from what i read , and think we aren't taking it in the shorts?
Mcdonalds chrging me 6.00 for a crappy burger fries and a coke don't mean NEAR as much as paying out the butt for gas. I can eat bologna sandwiches and survive. My car on the other hand WONT.
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Well said redtop, I don't know where in Texas you live but its up to 2.68 here, and some places even higher than that. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread about the eratic jumping around of prices, its the same here.
One day it will be high, the next day it will drop down to 2.30 To me it's sad when you get excited by a price of 2.30 a gallon.
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let's see... supply is limited... demand continues to rise... where's that econ 101 book?
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NZ is finally going to setup a biodiesel plant with these prices.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
let's see... supply is limited... demand continues to rise... where's that econ 101 book?
Supply limited?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
let's see... supply is limited... demand continues to rise... where's that econ 101 book?
I think you mean "perfect inelastic demand". ;)
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Originally posted by RedTop
Supply limited?
Oh that's right, we have an unlimited supply. All this fuss about Arab crude is just a smokesceen.
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Originally posted by RedTop
Supply limited?
Yeah, supply is limited. There's only so much oil in the world, and it's getting more difficult (expensive) to get to. Then there's only so much pumping capacity in the world. Then there's OPEC restricting pumping further to increase prices. Then there's shipping concerns... how much can be moved across the oceans and for how much - supertankers are 100% booked for the forseeable future. Then there are laws (both environmental and protectionist) in the US that keep more refineries from being built which, of course, limits refining capacity.
If you want oil prices to go down, first look to your government... not to cap prices, but to allow more oil refineries to be built.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Oh that's right, we have an unlimited supply. All this fuss about Arab crude is just a smokesceen.
Hmm...ok so let me get this straight.
Your saying that 4-6 weeks ago when I was paying about 190-2.05 a gallon , that all of the sudden the demand has reached another level to make it amost a dollar more? Hmmmm....ok
which brings me to what I said in my post.....let me recap....
Government aint gonna try to help cause they have an interest in them making money.
There is OIL out there. There ARE things that could be done by OIL companies and Government. THEY DON'T WANT TO DO IT. So you and I alike will pay for it....YEs it is supply and demand. I happen to think that the supply is there. But the DEMAND makes em money. ALOT OF IT.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
If you want oil prices to go down, first look to your government... not to cap prices, but to allow more oil refineries to be built.
It won't make any difference.
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Originally posted by RedTop
Hmm...ok so let me get this straight.
Your saying that 4-6 weeks ago when I was paying about 1.90-2.05 a gallon , that all of the sudden the demand has reached another level to make it amost a dollar more? Hmmmm....ok
According to the DOE, the average price per gallon in Houston was 2.70 the week of April 10, '06. One year ago, the price was 57.8 cents less, or 2.122 per gallon... a 27% increase over a years time.
The cost of a barrel of crude a year ago was 46.84 / bbl last week it was 61.27 / bbl: a 30% increase of the cost of crude.
Cost of the raw material goes up 30%, our cost goes up 27%...
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Originally posted by Sandman
It won't make any difference.
Oh My GOSH.....Sandy and I agree:eek:
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
According to the DOE, the average price per gallon in Houston was 2.70 the week of April 10, '06. One year ago, the price was 57.8 cents less, or 2.122 per gallon... a 27% increase over a years time.
The cost of a barrel of crude a year ago was 46.84 / bbl last week it was 61.27 / bbl: a 30% increase of the cost of crude.
Cost of the raw material goes up 30%, our cost goes up 27%...
Ok Holden...let me say this first...I enjoy your posts and wit and how you can make a point.....Lets get that on the table first.
NOW....My witty lil poster......
What in the WORLD has changed to make oil harder to get?
What in the world has changed that RAW materials have gone to increase gas prices as they are?
Why is it that during holidays , spring breaks , warmer weather/colder weather that gases prices suddenly become HIGHER?
I don't buy for one second that the demand is such that all of the sudden it costs more to get oil or it costs more to make gas. Thats a crappy excuse. The oil industry is raping us.
Explain to me how today , it costs MORE to make a gallon of gas than it did 1 year ago. Why is it that all over the world there is oil , yet it costs more today than it did a year ago. Why is it that our government in all its infinate BS wisdom doesn't sit down and tell the oil companies here to KNOCK IT OFF.
MONEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY........ ...............that you and I and the rest of the US people shell out everyday for a comodity that is basically the heart and soul of our life.
They have it. They can make gas. They can make a ton of money even if they would do the right thing. GREED and MONEY. hand in hand they go.
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Here is about 4000 words in reply.
(http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/images/figure_10small.jpg)(http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/images/figure_9small.jpg) (http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/images/figure_8small.jpg)
(http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/images/chinaoil.gif)
Basic economics. Everyone wants more, everyone is willing to pay for it, those who may not want to pay for it still do so anyway, there is nothing driving the cost down and everything is driving the cost up. Fuel is worth what our actions say it is worth, even if we gripe about it.
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A few reasons, Red.
1. The rest of the world wants to buy oil too. Two-thirds of the middle east oil is shipped to the east, not the west, to satisfy the massive increase in demand from China, India and developing countries. The US has to compete for that oil now.
Everyone in the world is paying higher prices, not just you.
2. Refineries suspend operations in the 2nd Qtr (now) for maintenance and the number of refineries scheduled to be off line this year is higher than last year.
3. There are only so many ships and barrels available to ship. Bookings for ships are made in advance, so naturally, some countries made extra bookings to anticipate the higher number of refineries being off line this year. That has contributed to increasing prices.
Higher world-wide demand, but a lower supply available this quarter.
[Added: Oops, we just said the same thing, Holden. Hopefully lazs will be around soon to approve or correct us with his incisive and brilliant intellect.]
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Basic economics. Everyone wants more, everyone is willing to pay for it, those who may not want to pay for it still do so anyway, there is nothing driving the cost down and everything is driving the cost up. Fuel is worth what our actions say it is worth, even if we gripe about it.
Ok..I understand those statements.....Still though I wonder why it is more expensive to make gas now than a year ago. 2 years ago for that matter.
and just one more thing.....
IMO....The oil companies are still raping us without reason and I'll use this lil senario...
If I had a Cheeseburger and had 5 millionaires chained up and starving that cheeseburger would be worth alot to one of em. BUT , If I split it 5 ways I could give em all a taste and make more huh.
Same way I look at this. Better to make a bunch of nickles than to try to make 1 quarter.
IF they wanted to help the people , they could....But they have no desire to...so they screw us.
Nice guys do finish last.
Thanks Holden...Stats and numbers are fine and state your case. I think you can figure mine out.:)
ROLEX BUDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYY
Thanks for the reply. I see yalls stance. REALLY I do. I understand supply and demand. I'm not totally ignorant though I do play that on AH.
It's principle. The oil companies report the highest margin of profit ever , yet say they aren't making anymore than they ever have in comparison. Don't add up to me.
BTW Rolex....shot 64 last week.
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Originally posted by Eagler
the difference being that one can make it easliy without ever going to a McD's, the same can't be said about a gas station
my guess is that you didn't invest much or if you did, you either live with your parents or an apartment full of room mates ..
Hehe , you are so wrong I gotta laugh.
the $400 bucks a month I've been putting into a SEP for 5 years is worth about 18k- You do the math.
That does'nt include the the ROTH account I started this year.
Or the CD's that are getting 4.5 % for 9 months.
The point I was was trying to make was that if you never "see the Money" in your hand, you won't have a chance too spend it.
BTW- Both of my patents are dead, and I live with my Wife.
O, and I've been self employed for 10 years.:D
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{Watching Red's blood pressure go up after he reads this:}
ExxonMoblie made $90 billion profit then the government gave them $15 billion worth tax credits to help them out of their misery. You need to buy a few Congressmen.
Smooth score. You start on the 3rd hole? ;)
Let me guess - you hit nothin' but hooded knockdowns that ran a mile on hardpan fairways to keep it under that God awful Texas wind this time of year, then made a mile of putts?
I'm going to Orlando in a few months to look at a place near Lake Nona. :) Going to start weaning myself out of Japan next year. A month here, a month there.
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Originally posted by Rolex
{Watching Red's blood pressure go up after he reads this:}
ExxonMoblie made $90 billion profit then the government gave them $15 billion worth tax credits to help them out of their misery. You need to buy a few Congressmen.
Smooth score. You start on the 3rd hole? ;)
Let me guess - you hit nothin' but hooded knockdowns that ran a mile on hardpan fairways to keep it under that God awful Texas wind this time of year, then made a mile of putts?
I'm going to Orlando in a few months to look at a place near Lake Nona. :) Going to start weaning myself out of Japan next year. A month here, a month there.
:mad: Don't even get me started about taxes:mad:
Actually the fairways at my home track have been fairly soft. Some rain , but mainly we have a river we get water from along with gray water from the city. Greens have been perfect as well. Wind has been blowing though. I had 4 birdies that the total amot of feet i had to putt was prolly 5 ft. :lol
I was striping it and hiiting it close. Made a bogie on a par3:eek: and 7 birdies.
Gonna play tomorrow and then Saturday in a lil tournament. Good luck in Lake Nona. Say hello to Ernie while your there. :rofl
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Originally posted by RedTop
:mad: Don't even get me started about taxes:mad:
Actually the fairways at my home track have been fairly soft. Some rain , but mainly we have a river we get water from along with gray water from the city. Greens have been perfect as well. Wind has been blowing though. I had 4 birdies that the total amot of feet i had to putt was prolly 5 ft. :lol
I was striping it and hiiting it close. Made a bogie on a par3:eek: and 7 birdies.
Gonna play tomorrow and then Saturday in a lil tournament. Good luck in Lake Nona. Say hello to Ernie while your there. :rofl
The amount you pay in green fees each month would make a nice nest egg for investment. You could quadruple 2 years of green fees in 6 years time, then buy new clubs, and have golf paid for for 5 years! ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
The amount you pay in green fees each month would make a nice nest egg for investment. You could quadruple 2 years of green fees in 6 years time, then buy new clubs, and have golf paid for for 5 years! ;)
I pay a small country club bill a month. I don't pay green fees. I don't pay for cart rental. I dont pay for anything out there other than an occasional bite to eat to meet the monthly assesment for food and beverage. A whopping 25.00. Total for all the golf I want to play in a month , plus a pool , tennis and raquet ball is 150.00. I put that and more away already a month. :)
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Whats the tax free price of gasoline in the US at the moment? it's about $ 2,19/gal here. At the lowest in 2006 it was $ 1,63/gal
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Originally posted by Flit
Hehe , you are so wrong I gotta laugh.
the $400 bucks a month I've been putting into a SEP for 5 years is worth about 18k- You do the math.
That does'nt include the the ROTH account I started this year.
Or the CD's that are getting 4.5 % for 9 months.
The point I was was trying to make was that if you never "see the Money" in your hand, you won't have a chance too spend it.
BTW- Both of my patents are dead, and I live with my Wife.
O, and I've been self employed for 10 years.:D
ok, my guess is that your wife is the major bread winner.. am I wrong there too? :)
or maybe an inheritance? somehow, someway the 15.5k a year ain't the whole story...unless you and the wife live in a box under a bridge somewhere :)
I know about "never see the money", my company matches 66 cents on the dollar for the first 10% of their fidelity 401k plan ... been in that for a while
still don't see what this has to do with getting it up the arse at the pump
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Exxon exec: 400 million retirement package.:eek:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989&page=1&gma=true&gma=true
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Exxon exec: 400 million retirement package.:eek:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989&page=1&gma=true&gma=true
Yeah, isn't that darling. While even the average rich guy is getting ****ed up the ass. Forget about the average working man.
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Wow...nice retirment.
Thats only 5,714,285.71 barrels of oil at 70.00 a barrel.
But we're not supposed to wonder huh. Supply and demand. Thats all it is.:rolleyes:
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Gas too high?
Let me get a handle on this. We Can't try to stabilize the nuts in the Middle East so we have a decent supply of oil.
We Can't drill in Alaska because of the Mooses, yet the Middle East is Nuts and we can't stabilize them.
We Can't all be forced to ride Bikes like they do in China because, well, we're Americans and we just flat out Don't Want To.
So the gas is what it is. Don't like it? Step Up, Buy a Chevron station and be Morally Superior and Give the stuff away, Or, let the oil Flow and hush.
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Originally posted by RedTop
Wow...nice retirment.
Thats only 5,714,285.71 barrels of oil at 70.00 a barrel.
But we're not supposed to wonder huh. Supply and demand. Thats all it is.:rolleyes:
5.7 million barrels... that is equivalent to .156 % of the US annual oil imports.
Why if he bought oil with that and gave it away, we would have free gasoline until about 1:40 pm January 1.
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That's why I'm tryin to get my wife to buy a nice new economical small car instead of an SUV or even a used econobox. The new ones are waaay more efficient than cars built even 2-3 years ago.
I of course, will continue to drive my trans-am and will probably eventually replace it with a vette or something equally horrible. It's all about karmic balance :)