Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Morpheus on March 20, 2006, 03:58:58 PM
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I got trackIR today. Flying with this thing makes me want to puke. Flying mars' Pitts never made me feel this crapy. :eek:
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heheh :cool: fun, aint it?
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Just have to tune it so it's not so jumpy.
Bronk
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yeah its pretty cool. How long does it take to get used to? I honestly feel like I was just out flying for hours...that drunk bubble head feeling. And I just spent 15 minutes getting it all set up and fighting a few AI in lock-on. :lol
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what is track ir?
just asking
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Itīs an infrared headtracking cam. You control your views just by moving your head. Look at this site. (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/)
I took only a few days to getting used to it. But i know that a few people are getting kind of motion-sick and canīt use it at all. :(
Just take your time for a proper set-up. It took me a while to find out which settings work best for me, but now i cannot think of flying without it anymore!
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Morpheus,
Let me put it this way, I get sick now if I fly WITHOUT TIR.
Its all what you get used too, and you will get used to it.
Try to tune it down to limit the amount of head tilt needed for a given "view".
Happy to send you my profile if you like.
Balsy
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morph it took me a weak or so to get use to it.
Just add a bunch of dead band and make profiles aggresive . This way seams to make head movement as small as possible.
I woald also recomend diable roll axis.
Bronk
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I got sick as all get out when I first started playing FPS' in the 90's. The games were just so darn fun I worked through it and got over the motion sickness. I think you'll be fine, Morph, just let your addiction to sims do the talking :)
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Originally posted by Bronk
morph it took me a weak or so to get use to it.
Just add a bunch of dead band and make profiles aggresive . This way seams to make head movement as small as possible.
I woald also recomend diable roll axis.
Bronk
Yeah, i had to kill roll in AH. The view looked like i was standing on the canopy at times lol. It was fun at first then i started to get sick to my stomach again. It's a pretty dam cool invention though. I have to find something for my 6 view. I live looking out the back of the plane in AH. Maybe spend 20% of my flying time actually looking out the front of the plane. Right now, its a pain to turn my head and then peak around the back and up. I dont like that at all really. Im sure there is a way to work around that. I hope.
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Happy to send you my profile if you like.
That would be great balsy. I still have no idea how to work the software it came with completely yet. Still playing with it alot.
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I've had it for months. Never have gotten used to it. I'll try hard for a few days, but the motion sickness kills me. I'm about ready to sell mine.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
I got trackIR today. Flying with this thing makes me want to puke. Flying mars' Pitts never made me feel this crapy. :eek:
S'at so, huh? Well, yeah I'll take your word for it, it must be crud....
Can I have it? :D
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Deadbands are really important.
When you set them up right the thing is fantastic.
Use the edit profile option, with the head/gages/tracking boxes checked, and mess with the deadband settings.
I set mine like this:
Tacking type = Vector
Positon - Value
Yaw
0- 0
2- 4
5- 9
10- 20
20- 26
30- 26
40- 79
50- 77
Pitch
0- 0
2- 6
5- 17
10- 18
20- 23
30- 0
40- 0
50- 0
Roll
0- 0
2- 1
5- 1
10- 0
20- 8
30- 7
40- 0
50- 0
X
0- 0
2- 0
5- 8
10- 9
20- 14
30- 75
40- 75
50- 75
Y
0- 1
2- 25
5- 80
10- 80
20- 80
30- 79
40- 79
50- 69
Z
0- 0
2- 6
5- 79
10- 79
20- 51
30- 23
40- 1
50- 0
Good luck - 6 views = look left/lean right or look right/ lean left
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Morpheus,
You have mail.
To your point about looking AFT. What you do is lean forward and down a bit with TIR, and then hit the recenter button. Then when you sit up in a normal position, you will have the highest "seat" level and the aft most position in the cockpit. It is a different point in each plane, and that just takes experimentation. When you ready to use the site, simply lean forward and down (like you would naturally) to get the site picture.
Balsy
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I'll reaffirm the claims that adjustment is everything.
I've had TrackIR since v2, and now run v4. If you don't have it yet, I highly recommend the 6-vector setup. Not only will it make the whole thing that much more intuitive, but then you can duck when someone shoots at you! :D
Keep working with the deadband adjustments, as well as the aggressiveness curves. These are critical to getting a response curve you are comfortable with.
When it's not right, the thing can feel like a real burden, and slow you down. When you begin to close on a config that suits you, you'll know it.
I've never had a motion sickness problem, although my wife can't even watch the screen when I fly...with or without TrackIR. Seems people can either process the visual images independent of coordinated balance cues from the inner ear, or they can't. If not, you'll feel ill.
Also, consider mapping the TrackIR enable/disable command and the centering command to your stick, so you can switch around quick. I find that I prefer to go back to a typical headlocked position when actually shooting, while using the TrackIR during acquisition.
Luck!
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Originally posted by USHilDvl
I'll reaffirm the claims that adjustment is everything.
I've had TrackIR since v2, and now run v4. If you don't have it yet, I highly recommend the 6-vector setup. Not only will it make the whole thing that much more intuitive, but then you can duck when someone shoots at you! :D
Keep working with the deadband adjustments, as well as the aggressiveness curves. These are critical to getting a response curve you are comfortable with.
When it's not right, the thing can feel like a real burden, and slow you down. When you begin to close on a config that suits you, you'll know it.
I've never had a motion sickness problem, although my wife can't even watch the screen when I fly...with or without TrackIR. Seems people can either process the visual images independent of coordinated balance cues from the inner ear, or they can't. If not, you'll feel ill.
Also, consider mapping the TrackIR enable/disable command and the centering command to your stick, so you can switch around quick. I find that I prefer to go back to a typical headlocked position when actually shooting, while using the TrackIR during acquisition.
Luck!
Instead of shutting TIR off, try mapping a button to KP8 which will hold the view in the forward position, but still allow you to move vertically and horizontally, it will take away the yaw axis. So you leave tir on, hold the button down for your shot, and if the shot passes, you simply release and your back in TIR 100%.
I had the shut off/on thing, and it became to disruptive.
Balsy
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Tir takes about a week to get profficiant with, and a couple more weeks to surpass what ever you could do with the hat switch, your flying will improve radicaly after you get comfertable with it. I just turned it on cold turkey and mastered it after setting all the axis to "aggressive" in the preset. So its subtle in the center for gunnery, and you dont have to move your head far to check 6. The roll takes some getting used to but you will find it makes you SA go way up after a while, real pilots keep their heads level as possible with the horizon at all times, this transelates into ah effectively with the roll cam option, its crazy the kinda intense deflection shots you will be able to pull off. Dont get discrouraged, you will get your arse handed to ya for a bit but once tir becomes second nature you will have opened up a whole new can o worms in terms of acm potential because if the boosted SA.
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I just use my hat switch (# 8 on keypad) when I'm going to shoot most of the time. Sometimes I'm so close that I don't need to :)
Just mess with the settings for a week until you get it right.
It makes the game harder but more enjoyable. Your gunnery will go to crap. Since I got my trackIR, I can no longer see directly behind me :( Makes fighting harder and more realistic.
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Sounds too damn confusing, and too damn expensive. I'll stick with flyin mouse style.:D
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Originally posted by eilif
Tir takes about a week to get profficiant with, and a couple more weeks to surpass what ever you could do with the hat switch, your flying will improve radicaly after you get comfertable with it. I just turned it on cold turkey and mastered it after setting all the axis to "aggressive" in the preset. So its subtle in the center for gunnery, and you dont have to move your head far to check 6. The roll takes some getting used to but you will find it makes you SA go way up after a while, real pilots keep their heads level as possible with the horizon at all times, this transelates into ah effectively with the roll cam option, its crazy the kinda intense deflection shots you will be able to pull off. Dont get discrouraged, you will get your arse handed to ya for a bit but once tir becomes second nature you will have opened up a whole new can o worms in terms of acm potential because if the boosted SA.
I was on the way out the door today, go to the end of my driveway, looked in the rear view and saw that I still had that stupid looking TIR thing on my hat. lol. wtf
I can see how your SA can go up with it. Its also nice to fly in auto lvl or climb and fly hands free checking the sky.
Is there a way to limit roll? I mean to stop it from going 180 upside down? If i roll my head enough, and its not alot either, I will be completely upside down in the cockpit. LOL Its like I forgot to put my straps on or something lol.
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You can set the sensativity in all axis with a curveed response, so you can make it so that rolling your head does very little until at the extreme limits, you can also turn off that axis if so desired. Take a little time setting it up to be smooth and for you to get used to it. At first it is VERY helpful to have a quick 'off' key to turn it off for dive bombing or even gunnery...just be sure not to use it as a crutch, or you'll never learn to use it. Ive used mine for over a year now and I never turn it off unless I just want gain altitude and watch TV without my view skewing all owver the place.
Combathanger TIR/VECTOR review (http://www.combathanger.com/fighterreviews/tir/tir-review1.html)
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Yea, man...you gotta watch the hat thing. Every time I forget, and wear it where someone will see me, my little girl (8) points out that "Daddys wearing his antenna, so he can talk to the mothership". :D
That's what I get for cracking a joke the first time the kid asked me what it was. Now, before I can get a word in, she hits 'em with the Mothership bit, and it's off to the races while daddy tries to dig his way out from under. :rofl
The wife ack just points and laughs...
BTW..I'll have to check tonight, but I'm pretty sure you can reduce the aggressiveness of the roll function. Mine does not respond at all as fiercely as yours seems to, so try turning 'er down a bit.
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i still dont understand how this thing works. is it like a 3d thing or what i looked at site but i dont know if it goes on your head or what can some 1 send a picture or somthing of what this thing does. and please explain im lost.
catfish6
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Originally posted by Goomba
Yea, man...you gotta watch the hat thing. Every time I forget, and wear it where someone will see me, my little girl (8) points out that "Daddys wearing his antenna, so he can talk to the mothership". :D
[SIZE=25]LOL!!![/SIZE] :lol
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Originally posted by ujustdied
i still dont understand how this thing works. is it like a 3d thing or what i looked at site but i dont know if it goes on your head or what can some 1 send a picture or somthing of what this thing does. and please explain im lost.
catfish6
Go to their website and they have videos, pictures, text documents, everything you need to find out that it is and how to set it up!
http://www.naturalpoint.com
trackir section.
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origionaly posted by Morpheus
I was on the way out the door today, go to the end of my driveway, looked in the rear view and saw that I still had that stupid looking TIR thing on my hat. lol. wtf
hehe you think thats bad?
Back in the day when i had tir without the vector expansion you had to put the dot on your nose, I went down to the post office, and was wondering why the clirk gave me this really warm smile (he had the voice of big gay al from southpark), i got home and looked in the mirror, DAMNIT!
there should be a forum for our tir social war stories, ugh.
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Blahahahaha. LOLOL:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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LOL
I have several in my squad trying out the IR 4. :) Have not taken the plunge yet myself. :)
Morph, I will have that DVD in the mail to you this weekend. A squadie finally sent back one I can burn. :)
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Originally posted by eilif
real pilots keep their heads level as possible with the horizon at all times
That would hurt when doing a roll. Actually, I think you meant that real pilots keep their heads as level as possible with the lateral axis of the airplane at all times. I hope that's what you meant. I've never met a pilot who tried to keep their head level with the horizon. It might in fact make them sick.
Keep in mind that other peoples' profiles might not work for you. If you sit at a different difference from your monitor (and the TrackIR unit), the profile might be too aggressive or not aggressive enough for you.
Having said that, Speed55's profile seems to work really well. It's quite a bit faster than what I was using before, but I like it.
You get used to looking over your shoulder and around the headrest. It's so damn cool!
I can attest to the TrackIR helping your SA. I've been flying AH and before it AW since about '96 - 10 years! I usually would die horribly to lack of SA. I never mastered the hat switches. Recently I landed a 5 kill mission. I get more kills now, I land more, and I RTB more than I ever did before. The TrackIR makes flying and watching the NME so much more natural to me, that I wouldn't consider flying without it.
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Any solution for using TIR in a GV? One of the benefits of TIR is using your POV hat(s) for other uses. But I don't like TIR in a GV so I still need my hats programmed as POV.
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In GVs, I use TrackIr only while at commanders station (pintle mount). When driving, i rarely need to look in other directions than plain forward, so my keyboard will suffice.
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Originally posted by MOSQ
Any solution for using TIR in a GV? One of the benefits of TIR is using your POV hat(s) for other uses. But I don't like TIR in a GV so I still need my hats programmed as POV.
It works great in the Osty. Crouch down really low in the gunner's position, then recenter. Then you can see over the sides of the armor pretty easily.
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the weird sick feeling only lasted a day. Once I got use to it the first day, the next day it was almost like second nature. I just have to get accustomed to not relying on the hat switch. Which seems to be my biggest problem. 5 years of using it, its hard to just stop.
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Originally posted by MOSQ
Any solution for using TIR in a GV? One of the benefits of TIR is using your POV hat(s) for other uses. But I don't like TIR in a GV so I still need my hats programmed as POV.
I have my joystick set up to go to the different stickset 3 and 4....I can toggle the TrackIR off in these instances and still move everywhere within the GV AND have saved my head positions so that I am looking where I need to be and I use my POV to look around. When in the Gunner/commander positions (or any others for that reason) I have a button mapped to turn the Track IR on and off.
In flight it is ALWAYS on for me
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Speed55,
I'm using your suggested settings. They've helped a lot.
Thanks,
Mosq
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I should have never watched those video's :P
Looks like it would be nice to use :)
179 bucks ain't really very cheap though :(
oh well christmas is coming soon lmao
cheers
Sproie
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Anytime mosq.
I forgot to take distance from monitor into consideration, but i'm glad they helped.
There's also one more setting in there that i forgot to mention.. its called hat or headphones, and adjusts to where you place the clip.
It also makes a difference as far as centering goes.
I have mine clipped to the top of my headphones.
Basically this is how i set mine up and figured it all out..
I pretended i was in a dogfight, and used that big head to adjust the dampening as i looked right, left, up, back, etc.
Then went off line and practiced with the drones, and made final adjustments before going into the MA.
Like morph said, it's important to make sure the roll is set to very high dampening or you wind up "upside -down" in the cockpit, which will definitely make you want to loose your lunch on the moniter.
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I just have to get accustomed to not relying on the hat switch. Which seems to be my biggest problem. 5 years of using it, its hard to just stop.
oki just ordered it tonight , guess christmas came early :)
Hope I like it as much as you all do . Seems like it will make flying more enjoyable . After working in a auto plarts plant all these years my fingers are going numb so anything that will spare them sounds double good .
cheers
Spro
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Originally posted by airspro
oki just ordered it tonight , guess christmas came early :)
Hope I like it as much as you all do . Seems like it will make flying more enjoyable . After working in a auto plarts plant all these years my fingers are going numb so anything that will spare them sounds double good .
cheers
Spro
Hmmm auto plants, Lansing, Flint (well not anymore), Detroit (includes Novi, and the outskirts), or ??? I think that covers em all.
I was raised in Lansing and pulled auto parts out of Detroit to the east coast for a couple of years as a semi driver before retiring here to sunny Tucson :)
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I work at APCO it's in Alma , MI . I live close to Ithaca .
I curently make the axial plate for a A6 air cond. pump .
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***** :DD
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Speed55
Thanks for pasteing your settings
Just plugged it in this morning , seems ok , I don't get sick at all "yet"
Thanks again ,
Spro
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no prob..
it works well for me too. :cool:
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thanks for posting speed,i switched to yours after dicing around with it for a week.works great.
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My problem is that I move my head around too much while flying, guess I just "get into it" too much. I never knew how much I did this until I got a TIR. I find it easier to use in other sims where the POV is glued to a solid point, but with the advanced view systems of AH it was much harder to get used to. My gunnery % was cut in half when I started and I had to have the KP8 mapped to solidify the gunsight, this was a problem for me since I have always had primary and secondary guns on two buttons and pressing a third to hold the sight still was a pain while maneuvering. I had to resort to using a 4-way hat on the throttle to switch between pan and snap modes, plus an on/off toggle and the lock-KP8. I'd suggest to anyone interested in getting one that they try it WITHOUT the vector expansion first, the added complexity and axis just make it harder until you get used to it.
For panning the views during a long commute it is great, for a 1v1 fight it still works for me. But for a multiple-con engagement (99% of the time in AH-MA) it is too disorienting for me to handle and I end up turning it off. Guess I've been using the same hat for views for 15 years and habits THAT old are hard to break.
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edbert,try speed's profile on this post.it worked great for me last nite.getting more and more used to it.also are you familiar with the "precision" hotkey? its f7...check it out.S~ brick31
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Ya Edbert , I turn it off alot when I meet up with a con . My finger and thumb is my "Vitual Neck" so to speak . I have not had a problem with knowing were I am looking at and where my plane is relative to my plane till I started useing this lmao . It don't feel natural "yet" hehe . Like my finger and thumb is :P
I do like it for all the rest of the time so far , and for tanking it's nice .
When tanking I hit the "center" button when I have my head down just a bit and then I "stick" my head up to see when I am driving :) pretty neat .
Also I found when flying if I set the "center" when I lean ahead a bit then move back to a more normal postion I don't have to move my head so far to look back around the headrest etc .
Victor expansion ? I guess I am dumb what is that ? The 3 dots v 1 dot ?
Still learning alot about this yet , more to learn .
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Let me get this straight you have to actually lean your head around back over the seat to check six? OH MY GOD YOU MUST BE IN HEAVEN!:O