Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: gatt on March 21, 2006, 05:51:43 AM
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Watch out ... http://www.techamok.com/?pid=297
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This is old news that never gets old. :mad:
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Good info, thanks.
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List of games that currently have starforce CP on them. Don't know if this list is complete tho
game list (http://www.glop.org/starforce/list.php)
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Hear hear ...... :rolleyes:
http://www.techamok.com/?pid=377
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Thanks for the heads up!
Crossed a couple of games off my list that I "Was" considering.
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So its a worm now? Skuzzy? Explain please how this could impact legit users and their systems.
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Suprised to see Lock-On in there... Too bad, that was gonna be my next purchase. Not now. Starforce and Sony products are on the banned list at my house. It's like if you caught a burglar in your house, would you ask him over for tea the next week after he got out of jail? Not likely.
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We need a Big Brother icon.. no wait... This might do...
:noid :noid :noid
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Originally posted by Wolfala
So its a worm now? Skuzzy? Explain please how this could impact legit users and their systems.
If you have a DVD burner, Starforce can prevent you from burning DVD's. many case of this have been reported, and the creators of Starforce deny it happens.
Thier answer is, "If you can bring us a computer which shows the problem they will fix it."
Keep in mind, they are in Russia, and no one has wanted to go the effort to ship thier computer to Russia just to prove a point.
Aside from the burner issues, it is software which does replace system files. As such, there should a warning on the box of any product using this software. There is no end of possible issues which can stem from the replacement of system files.
I think it is utterly irresponsible for a software company to use any copy protection scheme without warning its end users. Unfprtunately, the basic Windows user mentality is such that most people are ok with system files being replaced.
And it is not paranoid to want to protect your computer from invasive products which alter the way your computer was intended to work. I too have crossed off any Sony or Starforce protected content from my purchase list.
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Just one thing to consider. There are certain games which have issued patches that remove starforce from their games. Before you cross a game off check to see if they have a patch that removes the starforce protection.
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Skuzzy I wasn'y saying y'all are paranoid, I was saying maybe a lot of folks were not paranoid enough!
I'm somewhat skeptical in life, but things like this keep surprising me (and yet... at the same time, part of me is not surprised). My "Big Brother" comment was in regards to their worm-like programs infesting our computers without our knowledge, and the 'noid emoticon is the closest one that fit.
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Hehe,..and I was not meaning to sound like I was hitting your post either. You just happen to remind me of a point I felt I needed to make, based on previous times when this subject has been brought up (I was called paranoid at that time).
The removal process of Starforce does not restore the original system files it replaces. Just FYI. When they stomp on them, they stomp on them.
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They now say that next SF versions will warn before installation. I wonder, what euro players will do. We generally cannot take the game to the store and have money back .... from now on I'll have to check the list of SF'fuc*ed games before buying .... :rolleyes:
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Thought a new law in the US specifically states that if a piece software installs any other additional software, it must be listed on the packaging, and listed in the EULA.
Or is this still going through the 'law process'?
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Originally posted by eagl
Suprised to see Lock-On in there... Too bad, that was gonna be my next purchase. Not now.
"Flaming Cliffs" is on the list and the original LOMAC is not. I still have it installed on my machine and don't have any of the EVIL Starforce files.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Thought a new law in the US specifically states that if a piece software installs any other additional software, it must be listed on the packaging, and listed in the EULA.
Or is this still going through the 'law process'?
I have not heard if that has been passed yet or not Kev.
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Plus, if the StarForce folks are in Moscow, are they outside US law? :P
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Originally posted by Krusty
Plus, if the StarForce folks are in Moscow, are they outside US law? :P
"If there is one thing history has taught us over the years - anyone can be killed."
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Eek I have lock-on so I have that crap on my system. Damm
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Originally posted by LePaul
Eek I have lock-on so I have that crap on my system. Damm
Do you have just the original or Flaming Cliffs?
Originally posted by DAVENRINO
"Flaming Cliffs" is on the list and the original LOMAC is not. I still have it installed on my machine and don't have any of the EVIL Starforce files.
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And the saga continues...
http://r-force.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=44&mode=&order=0&thold=0
Starforce Admin are up to their usual antics yet again. We are not even 2 weeks down from when they posted warez links to Stardocks Galactic Civilizations II.
Now they have resorted to, posting libelous comments claiming my research into partitioned primary SATA/SCSI drives and how Starforce spreads accross all partitions as well as any networks drive with read/write capability.
Updated 13:58Hrs GMT 24th March 2006
'Sage386 now directly calls me a liar'
Click Read More for the full Article...
What I did not State in my posts there
I even found the SF drivers on the root of my iMac (which happened to be set up with read/write Authority on the Network), obviously this was not a problem on that Hardware and was easy to delete, but that does not retract from the fact the SF does carry out multidropper type techniques to try and stop it from being deleted.
The main issue was the way in which, SF blue screens XP on this type of SATA setup and generates a non plug and play driver error.
It will not let you into safe mode, to remove SF.
If you use a live Linux Distro to remove all instances of SF on all the partitions, format the primary partition and try to install XP again.
SF attacks the low level access of the OS (from hidden instances of the drivers on the other partitions) install and prevents it from completing.
The only way to get around this is to clean the partitions, create the partitions again and format them. Then you can install XP with no problems.
Sage 386(Starforce Admin) response to this factual post.
Under the title of a locked thread called Best Nonsense Posts and links.
Comment from Sage386 (Starforce Admin)
"What are you talking about??
SF in a MBR?? Spread across every partition and shared network drive?? What a nonsense!
You mister are talking tales.
I understand your attitude to SF, but talking pure LIES???
What kind of person you are?
Or, rather should i ask how much you get paid for those posts?"
Further Comment from Sage 386 (Starforce Admin)
Since i'm one of the core developers, I DO know technical parts.
What 13thHouR has wrote is a pure fiction.
I have posted there asking them to delete the libelous comments, however their response is to delete my further posts and lock the original thread to prevent anybody else challenging what they have said.
So I will be contacting there press office and issueing notice of pending legal action should they not remove those comments.
Updated 11:52 GMT 24th March 2006
I have sent this via pm to Sage386 and posted it on the Starforce forums:
I know you think that your little closed thread is funny and in a less legally intensive scenario I would probably agree.
http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=796
However in the real world what you have posted there is libelous, you cannot acuse somebody of writing fiction or being paid to do so without evidence to back it up.
Thus I am politely requesting that is removed from Starforce, obviously if you are not willing to comply then I will be refering said matter to our legal team in view of prosecution.
This article is just an example of the first step: http://r-force.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=44&mode=&order=0&thold=0 is now being picked up by various news agencies and also read by various chief executives within Publishers that you currently/In future would count as customers.
Given the recent bad press, Security Technologies could do without another Galciv II type incident.
The data mentioned in my post was obtained by running standard and also thorough bench tests on several systems. Before I even start I think both you and I know that the SATA/SCSI primary drive incompatibility with SF is well documented. Its just the nature of using a Virtual IDE emulation.
SATA/SCSI and IDE are not compliant with each other protocols at the best of times, but when you add an emulation which is not 100% compliant with the IDE subsystem, it does not take a genius to realise that this will have errattic side effects to system stability. FOr one thing SF struggles to isolate which is the primary partition on a SATA/SCSI system. Also if network drive have full read/write permission it will install its drivers there as well (Basically becasue of this not being able to isolate where its supposed to be).
At no time did I ever state that this reaction to the conflicts was an intentional issue created by Security Technologies, thus I am extremely concerned that rather than addressing the issue you chose to present the challenge to the finding in such a libelous manner. I am quite sure the authorities will carry a similar view point on this since I am a reputable tech Engineer/Developer with over 25 years in the business under my belt.
I would prefer to report to our 2.2 Million readers on NGH and R-Force.org that the libelous content has been removed from the Starforce forums and an apology has been issued by yourselves.
Regards
William Taggart II AdDip.Prof.Con.Phys.
(AKA) 13thHouR
Owner/Director
Ideas Unlimited (tm) Thurlby Computers.
Webmaster.
http://www.r-force.org
http://www.n-gage-help.com
We now await their response on this matter....
Update: 13:58 Hrs GMT, 24th March 2006
Sage386's response to the previous posted request.
Hello!
1. You're telling that SF resides and loads from MBR
2. You're telling that SF occupies HDD partition tables
3. You're telling that SF spreads through network drives.
You're lying!
IF you publish an appology on our forums for being a liar, we may continue converstaiton.
My subsequent response: The last warning before this becomes official.
Excuse me I have explained to you the exact process that causes this, up to now I have been presenting this as an unintentional reaction caused by conflicts between the IDE subsystem and SATA/SCSI primary drives with multiple partitions on a number of setups. I am now beginning to question that assumption of non malicious intent given the response I have received.
Is this how Security Technologies treats all such reports?
Tell me what do you think happens when the SF Virtual IDE Protection drivers are unable to isolate which is the primary drive?
Where do you think they install?
Given that SATA/SCSI drives do not report themselves to the OS in the same manner as IDE. Your time would be better spent isolating this issue rather than calling peeps liars for giving feedback reports on conflicts that are occurring.
I will give you one more chance to apologise and remove the offending posts from that thread which violate both my intellectual Copyrights as well as the Copyrights of NGH and r-force.org. In case you are not aware of online legislation. I can make such a request at any point in time when my Copyrighted material is being used in contradiction to my authorised use.
I had hoped that this issue could have been resolved in a more amicable manner however its becoming very obvious that litigation is going to be the only path.
I am now issuing a formal notice of Unauthorized use of Copyright material on the Starforce Forums.
In case you are not aware, this is as serious of an issue as the previous posting of the Galciv II P2P link. I suggest you have a word with the CEO of Security Technologies or their legal Team before responding, as your responses will be presented in evidence should Security Technologies choose not to comply with International Online legislation.
Once again we now await their response on this matter....
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Oh my! :rolleyes:
I have already canceled from my HD and buying list everything related to Blitzkrieg, Codename Panzer, Brother in Arms and Virtual Skipper ......
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
If you have a DVD burner, Starforce can prevent you from burning DVD's. many case of this have been reported, and the creators of Starforce deny it happens.
Thier answer is, "If you can bring us a computer which shows the problem they will fix it."
Keep in mind, they are in Russia, and no one has wanted to go the effort to ship thier computer to Russia just to prove a point.
Hmm. Did they really say that? Do they promise to fix it only on the computer someone brings to them?
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Aside from the burner issues, it is software which does replace system files. As such, there should a warning on the box of any product using this software. There is no end of possible issues which can stem from the replacement of system files.
I already met some problems with upgrading PCs that have Starforce installed. If you "ghost" a drive with SF or install it into another system - it refuses to boot. I find it absolutely fantastic. You install some silly game - and then you have to break your brains in recovery console to find what to do...
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Rock on Wolf. :D :aok
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Wasn't me who was doing the digging. I just posted the comments from the other fourm where the **** is flying.
And Pavel, yes - there is an open invitation for anyone who is having problems with SF - to prove their case - you need to fly to Moscow, with your system in hand, get a hotel - bring it to them - then prove somehow that their **** caused all of the problems.
Only problem is, who else besides, perhaps, me - would actually do that?
Wolf
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Ha, well if they fix my 'puter and offer me a 20 year old bride, maybe... :p
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Give em what for Wolf!
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Geez there are already a couple of games on my system or have been on my system that use/used Starforce and I never knew it. The Blitzkreig series is now going to require some serious cleaning and I guess I will just bring the disks to work and shred them here to keep my son from reinstalling it and playing the game. No wonder I had so much trouble after they were installed. I also need to see if I can take back Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood. Fortunately it hasn't been opened. Does anyone know if the demo of Hammer and Sickle had Starforce protection in it? If so that might account for why that game sucked my system down to Packard Bell 486 levels the other night.
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Internet StarForce Gets Two-Timed; Ligitation and Fraud Surfaces
Tuan Nguyen - March 31, 2006 7:49 PM
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1559
Ubisoft sued for using StarForce, followed by the discovery that pro-StarForce "reviews" were actually viral marketing
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/legal/5m-class-action-lawsuit-against-ubisoft-for-starforce-164303.php
Copy protection has been more frustrating for legitimate users than it is for those who copy or download games. Most savvy computer users know that full games are available from a variety of sources, and underground groups that release them. Most of the time, a crack and valid CD is also supplied with the release, rendering the publisher's copy protection scheme useless.
In its latest battles with end users, StarForce, famous for creating copy protection schemes that violated user privacy rights as well as causing notable system problems, has created a website called OnlineSecurity ON. A StarForce employee implies that OnlineSecurity ON is an independent security website (his quote has since been modified) which reviews and writes about software security. Interestingly, he points to an article called "The Truth about StarForce Drivers," which claims:
It is obvious that all the rumors around StarForce hazards are spread by international piracy groups. Our recent contest has just proven that StarForce does not damage optical drives.
Of course, one only needs to do a reverse host look up to show that is StarForce and OnlineSecurity-On.com is one and the same:
[kristopher@arthur]$ nslookup star-force.com
Name: star-force.com
Address: 195.90.131.214
[kristopher@arthur]$ nslookup onlinesecurity-on.com
Name: onlinesecurity-on.com
Address: 195.90.131.214
In light of this, Ubisoft is currently being sued for the use of StarForce protection in its games. A class action lawsuit, filed by Christopher Spence, indicates that StarForce drivers compromise the security of a computer system. Interestingly, the class action does not go after StarForce. The file can be viewed here (PDF).
http://eplaw.us/sf/UbisoftComplaint032406.pdf
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not to bring up a complete dead thread but I found another list of games which seems to be a little more complete...
games list (http://www.boycottstarforce.net/?page_id=3)
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This thread is not dead, it should be made sticky. :furious