Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SgtPappy on March 21, 2006, 08:50:42 PM
-
the question's been bugging me... how exactly (both in AH and real life) did the mosquito escape or fight with enemy fighters? it's a bomber which, therefore, focused on destroying ground enemies rather than enemy planes (which only need to be destroyed defensively) so im pretty sure it had a negative kill ratio. however, from what i read about AH, im not sure if the mossie can survive enemy attacks regardless of the e/a position. would any1 like to clear things up for me, as it is my favorite bomber?
-
Its a bomber? :huh
-
well, according to AH, its not, but it was designed to be one. however it is such an efficient strike aircraft, that it was categorized as an attack plane. plus, bombers in AH are pretty much the reeeaaly big clunckers like the boston or the Lanc. the boston/A-20 maybe quite small but its not so sleek and fast like the mossie.
-
mossie was the fastest mofo around pre 1942..not much could catch it hence its affectiveness and survivability...in the ma with countless la's d model ponies and doras its not only useless but a giant target easily run down...grab e spray and recover, just like the rest of the timid ma lot..u will do fine in it
-
It's a bomber and fighter. On bomber missions they would fly low to the ground and avoid radar detection and were faster than a lot of german planes. Pure bomber varients would rely soley on speed, flying high and fast enough to stay away from fighters.
-
Thrilla would fly the mossie as his primary fighter. he was more than a fight for a pair of la7s that for sure.
is a damn big target though.
-
wow.. amazing. how can he survive??:eek:
-
i have no idea, he was a strong marksman with those guns, and flew acms like magic against me when ive bumped into him with me flying single propfighters in the past. dont find a fight with him often even back then, i'm not sure that i've seen him in 6 months at least.
Rolex also flies the mossy well i seem to recall, but then he did teach me to land an Ar234 jet bomber on a CV too :D
-
lol ho-lee crap... well as long as i noe that the mossie dus indeed stand a chance of survival in the MA, and is NOT useless lol, then i guess i feel more comfortable.
-
thrila was a good shot. but it aint hard in a mossy, however if he missed one pass on any competent pilot he was done..
-
It was used mainly as a night fighter in its fighter role (defensive and offensive), but was also used for anti-shipping, and precision (for WW2) ground attack.
The version we have in AH is the FB VI which was the fighter-bomber.
To use it in the MA, do not carry too much fuel, I would go with 50 percent internal fuel max, but I would suggest 25 fuel and drop tanks for most sorties. Once you get into the fight, let the DTs go, and you have about 15 min flying time at full throttle.
Stay fast, and dont bother getting above 15k alt. Conserve your wep for when you need it. Below 10k is its best alt.
Set all the guns at 500 yards, and most often the 150 rpg 20mm load is more than enough ammo. You could even get rid of the 303 once you were airborne. I do sometimes.
Make sure you are not carrying internal bombs or rockets!
Set your cockpit views so you like them.
Fly smart and be aware of whats around you. Pick your moment and go in for a kill, use your speed to get out of a tough spot, and dont be afraid to manuever hard if your backs against the wall.
-
Originally posted by SgtPappy
the question's been bugging me... how exactly (both in AH and real life) did the mosquito escape or fight with enemy fighters? it's a bomber which, therefore, focused on destroying ground enemies rather than enemy planes (which only need to be destroyed defensively) so im pretty sure it had a negative kill ratio. however, from what i read about AH, im not sure if the mossie can survive enemy attacks regardless of the e/a position. would any1 like to clear things up for me, as it is my favorite bomber?
I protect my Mossie by leaving it on the ground and taking a real airplane.
I've generally found that most of the enemy ones I've ever come up agaist have ended up quickly dead. I find it a perfectly useless aircraft.
For the purpose of AH, the 110 does everything the mossie can, and does it better. If I need a twin engine attacker, I'll be in a 110 every time.
-
As Squire said, the mossie was a fast and fearsome nightfighter. The LW respected it so much, they rarely lifted against them. The mossie owned the night skies for a time.
If you're interested in the mossie, HERE>> (http://www.mossie.org/Mosquito.html) is a good place to get you started with some good info.
I like flying the mossie for 2 reasons:
1. It's a challenge. For me, landing 3 kills in a mossie (or P-40, or Spit I, or FM-2, etc.) is more satisfying than landing 6 in almost anything else. And...
2. My father was an RCAF Mosquito pilot flying Pathfinder missions during the war.
Anyway, I would say you have to pick your fights more carefully starting from being fast @ about 13k, don't get suckered into slowing down, turn off combat trim and use the excellent "Forward View" of the mossie to set up deflection shots.
You can see over the nose of the mossie better than any other plane, which means you can track your prey and anticipate better where to be to get that deflection shot. (Foward view is the 8 key on the keypad. Use arrows and page up/down keys, then F10 to set, but I'm sure most everyone has it set on their stick.) It has reasonable rudder for shooting solutions - use it.
She is a big target and it doesn't take damage well - I think the sound of just one .50 cal round fired within 300 yards of a mossie will make it fall apart. But, it's a fun plane because everyone hates being shot down by one. And that is satisfying. :)
-
Ther best defensive maneuver for the Mossie is to leave it in the hangar.
-
Ya, just roll an LA-7, and then when you see a con, HO. You will fit right in. ;)
-
Kurt,
I have never lost a Mossie to a Bf110, yet I have killed many Bf110s in close fights, a couple of times with just the .303s.
You, as a Luftlover, have nothing of value to say here. Take your "Everything German is better" crap and stuff it.
As to the Mossie, it is a hard aircraft to succeed with in the AH MA for a few reasons.
1) It is going up against hordes of the best fighters of all the combatants, and though it is a fighter, it is a heavy fighter.
2) It is a 1943 version of the Mossie in a 1945 arena.
3) It has flame dampers which were only on about one third of FB.Mk VIs, those used for night ops. FB.Mk VIs used for day ops had ejector stubs and were about 15mph faster, which in 1943 meant they could flat out outrun any German fighter on the deck. As the AH MA is a daytime environment we really need the 355mph on the deck Mossie VI.
4) The Mossie had a reputation for being a very durable aircraft that would get home with heavy damage. In Ah it is regarded as fragile. This is a disconnect from the historical reputation.
There has been a lot said in this thread that is not true. The Mossie bombers did not run in at low altitude unless they were Pathfinders. Mossie Fighter-Bombers did, but those were used for different missions. Mossie bombers and PR Mossies were so hard to intercept because they cruised at 300mph while the Bf109's scrambling to intercept them would only do 170ish at best climb speed. If the Mossies gunned it there was no chance for the Bf109s to climb and then catch the Mossies. The only way to catch them, and an alert Mossie crew could foil it, was to have the Bf109s already at altitude and in position for the intercept. This was not a "before 1942" thing as very, very few Mossies even operated before 1942. This was an "until the advent of the Me262" thing, and given the scarcity of Me262s, Mossie Bombers were rarely intercepted through the whole of the war.
Hopefully when the Mossie is redone we get a couple of bombers, the B.Mk IV and B.Mk XVI (perked), and the flame dampers taken off the Mossie VI.
You can be successful in it. My best kill streak was 31 kills. It ended when I collided with an enemy Spitfire over enemy territory. I almost pulled the gun solution on his planeform, but I took too much of a risk. I should have gone vertical and come back for another go at him.
One note about fighter vs fighter results for the Mossie in the daylight. I know of one account of Mossie VI's, like in AH, running into a like number of Fw190s after a mission was aborted. Both sides went for it and the end result was 8 Mossies lost for 4 Fw190s. A definate German victory, but not a wholesale slaughter of aircraft that couldn't fight back at all.
-
Yeah, Mossies suck, never fear them, they won't turn fight or anything.
They just pork fields and die. Would never catch me in one. ;)
:rofl
-
Dont listen to the people saying you to leave it in the hangar. Fly it because it's beautiful, fly it because it's a challange, fly it because it's fun.
Unless you are score whoring that is. I would not take any other plane for JABO work and I fly the P47 mainly.
The last patches of AH added faster planes like the Spits 8/16 and ki84. This pushed up the average speed of the common planes and birds like Mossie and Jugs that were considered "middle speed" have shifted to "below average" class (I'm talking low altitude). The only common plane you will outrun is the niki and seafire.
In dive category mossies are very good in the early stages of the dive. However, terminal dive speed is slower than most planes. Pull too hard on the exit and you break the plane. Zoom is great. Climb is suprisingly good even when heavy with ord. Always take less than 50% (sometimes 25% is enough) and you can climb like a true fighter. Better than my jug anyway. Turn performance is decent and when you get real slow or over the top flaps can help.
The last issue is the nasty stall. I have to check it again after the 2.07 FM changes.
The optimistic view of the plane say that in AH fighter are mainly guns with wings. The gunpackage you have is the best you can ask for in a fighter (I'd take 4 nose hispanos over the 110 combo). Anything you hit - dies. Even the 303 have some limited use since the are neatly packed. Add to that the ability to look well over the nose for those hard tracking shots.
So, as a fighter (and I'm not talking BnZ tardness) it is a plane that require some dedication and specialization, but it is far from helpless.
Bozon
-
Heya batfink.
I'm coming home for easter for 3 weeks so i should be flying in the MA in a week or so. I'm debating whether to take my pedals and stick with me or just use my twisty stick at home, it depends how much things i need to take with me.
I've got a lecture in 5 mins so i can't chat, so i'll make a longer post later. I'll also post some films when i'm back home in plymouth.
-
Got to love this kid.
~S~ Karnak. :aok
P.S: I too have had many battles against thrila in A Mossi, boy was he dam hot in one. :eek:
-
Originally posted by Karnak
Kurt,
You, as a Luftlover, have nothing of value to say here. Take your "Everything German is better" crap and stuff it.
Not what I said, but a beautiful example of an immature flameout. The newbies will learn much from you.
Everything german... Yeah, whatever. I mentioned one specific plane in one specific role. And if you disagree, thats wonderful. Most days you'll find me flying one of those fine German spit9's, or the very famous Focke Wulf B-17.
-
In the MA there are only 2 deffencive moves they can do. Go for the HO and run. As far as survivability in it, just do what every one that drives the does. Come in for the vulch or HO. Extend 6K or more and repeat until you receive your WTFGs for flying one and landing 10 kills in it.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
In the MA there are only 2 deffencive moves they can do. Go for the HO and run. As far as survivability in it, just do what every one that drives the does. Come in for the vulch or HO. Extend 6K or more and repeat until you receive your WTFGs for flying one and landing 10 kills in it.
not true, although skillless dweebs do do that. a decent pilot can fly a mossie like a spit. it takes very fine control cause the fat bastage spins out real easy, but it is a great plane.
just gotta know how to use it
-
Originally posted by dedalos
In the MA there are only 2 deffencive moves they can do. Go for the HO and run. As far as survivability in it, just do what every one that drives the does. Come in for the vulch or HO. Extend 6K or more and repeat until you receive your WTFGs for flying one and landing 10 kills in it.
Or maybe you could learn that there are actually defensive and offesive moves that work in it.
Maybe.
Or maybe not.
Your choice.
-
oh no what have i done? Thrilla coming to get us all!
-
Any of you two want to show me how to fly the M as a Spit let me know. Three years I have been playing this game. I have yet to see a M try to fight intentionaly. Only if they see they can't get away and the two or three reverses for the HO failed. Only use I have seen is vulch, run, repeat, wait for the WTFGs.
But hey, anytime you want to teach me some offensive or deffensive moves let me know. My choice is made. I want to learn. Should we try Spit vs Mossie first since they can be flown the same way?
-
We didn't say it could do the same things as a Spit, and the newer, faster Spits are vastly better then the Spits I had to deal with.
That said, I always prefered air-to-air combat. I certainly didn't rely on vulching and the HO is iffy as a tactic.
If you get outnumbered in the Mossie you are probably dead. I have won free of some of those, but rarely. If you just want the best and easist fighter, stay away from the Mossie.
If you want a challenge that can get you killed, but can also win the fight the Mossie can be a fun choice.
1) Always be aware of your situation. Of particular threat are La-7s, Ki-84s, Spitfire Mk VIIIs and Spitfire Mk XVIs. When I was playing only the La-7 was in the game. The Mossie's job has gotten a lot harder.
2) Come in with an altitude advantage. The Mossie is mostly a BnZ fighter.
3) Take any shot you can generate. The guns can kill instantly and are comparitively easy to hit with. I recommend avoiding the HO if you think you have a chance of winning without using it as the Mossie is large and fragile, which more than offsets its firepower in the HO.
4) Defensively your best bet is speed, keep some altitude so you can dive to speed if you need to. Against fighters that are faster and more agile I had best luck in generate a blackout turn and then killing them before they figured out where I was.
5) Offensively use high yoyos or lag turns to cut the corner on better turning fighters.
6) Keep a feel for your E state and know when you need to pull out to reposition. The Mossie has gobs of fuel, so you have plenty of time to work.
-
I just checked the mosquito in the TA. Nasty stall and nose pitch of the combat trim is still there even though 2.07 patch notes say:
Due to this change, the table that controls combat trim had to be redone for all planes.
This and the tail forward slides after stalls give the feeling of a center of gravity too far aft. For the time it should be flow with C.T. turned off as the pitch up will tend to push you over the edge when slow turning.
To get out of a deep stall (tail forward fall after stalling): full stick forward and right + full right rudder, till the nose comes down. Keep throttle open.
To get out of high speed spin: stick forward + stick and rudder opposite to the roll direction. It's possible to get into a normal dive in less than 2 revolutions.
Bozon
-
Just a little input on the mossie. I fly it almost exclusively as I like to Jabo and fight fighters in it. It is a great plane for this as its ammo loadout is high, and the guns being central in the nose makes hitting anything a snap. That combined with the good view over the nose as others have stated as well. One advantage that I didn't see anyone mention is its turning ability.
Basic rule others state is correct. Stay fast and with a little altitude to dive away if things get hairy. Turn slowly in it as it bleeds energy tremendously. What I tend to do if I get caught low and can't outrun the enemy is sucker them in at an angle off my 6. (meaning slowly turn angular before they get in gun range). Then pull full stick either at the same turnrate upward or opposite depending on con angle approach. This is dangerous as the mossie is a big target, but what I find is most people tend to get excited and come in too fast to correct in time. The energy scrubbing that is usually a disadvantage to the mossie can be used as an advantage as you can take any altitude gained in the vertical to roll over on opponent if he overshot immediately, or if he turns into you, scissor him, releasing one notch of flap and banking each direction until he does overshoot you. I find that scissoring manuevers in the mossie to work about 70% of the time. The issue you will run into is that your are not low and slow and if any other cons are inbound it makes it tough. Nikis give me the most trouble as they seem uber with energy retension. If also had them out accelerate my Tepest at over 300MPH in a dive. I usually HO any other inbounds into a slow fight while turn fighting the orignal con. People don't realize the mossie will turn slow as much as it does. You have to becareful with the nasty stall but practice makes perfect in it. Check my stats if you doubt that you can be successfull in the Mossie. It can be a great plane. Plus, after you fly it for a while, when you take an actually figher up it feels like cheating...hehehe.
Warmest Regards,
Higgins
-
Ya but for something made largely of balsa,it should turn better.
my 2cents
-
I don't think i've ever said i can make the mossie fly like a spit but i do believe it can be flown competetivly if you fly it to it's strengths.
I disagree with keeping the mossie fast. I believe the mossies greatest assets are it's firepower and it's E bleed. The mossie turns well at high speed so i use it aggressively. Dive before an engagement for some speed (so will the con generally) and use your superior E bleed to work the angle. The mossie is also excellent for forcing cons to overshoot, which i enjoy. The flaps on the mossie can be used <200mph which can also help to gain angles momenterily, excess flap useage will make the mossie fall out of the sky though.
Basically- be aggressive, go for the angle to bring your guns to bear.
Dedalos i'll be more thna happy to help you out when i get back to AH, though i've not flown for a long time so i expect it'll take me a week or so to get into the swing of things myself i.e stalling the mossie and crashing.
I'll definately post some films when i get home, though i may have some stored on my PC up here in leeds so i may post some tomorrow if i have any.
-
It is funny to watch an La-7 flop around in front of a Mossie, in a panic to avoid the quad of Hispano's, yet unable to shake what the silly La-7 driver had dismissed as a mere bomber and non-threat.
It is thanks to the people who say "Leave it in the hanger" or "HO and vulche only" that I get told things by people I fight along the lines of "Wow, I had no idea the Mossie was that manuverable." I have gotten comments like that after winning and after losing fights because they had to work for a kill that others just let them have.
-
Originally posted by SgtPappy
the question's been bugging me... how exactly (both in AH and real life) did the mosquito escape or fight with enemy fighters? it's a bomber which, therefore, focused on destroying ground enemies rather than enemy planes (which only need to be destroyed defensively) so im pretty sure it had a negative kill ratio. however, from what i read about AH, im not sure if the mossie can survive enemy attacks regardless of the e/a position. would any1 like to clear things up for me, as it is my favorite bomber?
The Mossie is a Fighter. It is NOT a Bomber. It is a FIGHTER that happens to have the ability to carry BOMBS. Also, I've had great success defending fields in one, etc.
Karaya
-
Well i looked and i don't have any films on my PC @ leeds. I'll popin and post a few films when i get to plym on tues.
-
Whatever films tha-rill-laaaaaa posts, you must ignore them.
As I've said here before, the Mossie is an unmaneuverable slug which can neither defend itself nor present a credible threat.
In the unlikely even you encounter a Mossie, you must attack it immediately, whatever your relative energy state. Pay the cannon no heed, as the Mossie cannot bring them to bear.
This has been a public service announcement.
-
:lol Another thread with people talkign about how good they can be in a plane that only a few know how to fly the right way. Only, it is people that don't really fly the plane, or don't even play the game.
I did learn one thing though. If in a Mossie, make sure you have some alt so you can push your nose down :rofl Seems to be the main ACM mentioned in all posts. Don't confuse alt and speed with skill :lol
-
wasnt the bomber mossie the allied combat aircraft with the lowest loss/sortie rate?
I fly mossie as a fighter in MA occasionally, it can be very competitive as Frilla says, you just need to not fly it like a sissy. Acceleration seems to be very bad though so once you get caught slow it is hard to regain E.
-
dedalos,
No, I don't play anymore.
That doesn't mean I didn't play or that I didn't rack up thousands of kills in the Mossie.
You are an idiot if you expect us how to match things like the Spit 16 or 109G-14 in the Mossie. It obviously can't do that with equal pilots. If you are expecting us to tell you why its ENY should be 5, you won't get it.
What we can tell you is that it is usable in air-to-air combat if flown with panache. You don't want to believe that because all you are looking for is the best, easiest fighter to use.
In that case, stay far away from the Mossie and bugger off.
-
Originally posted by Karnak
dedalos,
No, I don't play anymore.
That doesn't mean I didn't play or that I didn't rack up thousands of kills in the Mossie.
You are an idiot if you expect us how to match things like the Spit 16 or 109G-14 in the Mossie. It obviously can't do that with equal pilots. If you are expecting us to tell you why its ENY should be 5, you won't get it.
What we can tell you is that it is usable in air-to-air combat if flown with panache. You don't want to believe that because all you are looking for is the best, easiest fighter to use.
In that case, stay far away from the Mossie and bugger off.
:rofl Sure it is usable as a fighter. I never said you could not use it to cherry pick and run or fight from an advantage. I am sure some one good could pwn a couple of new guys in it and make himself feel special. I am also sure I can rack 1000s of kills cherry picking, vulching, fighting newbs, or low and slow planes with it. I am also not the one that said you can fly it like a spit.
All I said is that for the past 3 years, I have never had a mossi engageme at will. I had plenty cherry me or vulch me, but not engage into a fight willingly. A couple of times that I run them down, they would turn for the HO till they died. If that makes me an idiot, so be it :lol
What do we call people that boast about how good they can be in a secret plane they dont fly, in a game they dont play, and when they do, their primary ACM is nose down? :rofl What is really your arguimen here? That the mossi is a good fighter? or that you were so good for not using the best fighters like me? Whats the best fighter for 5 vs 1 anyway? You see, unlike some experts, my ACM does not include nose down and run. When I see red icons, I fly towards them so a good plane does help engaging 3 or more bad guys.
I think next tour I will be teh e773t pilit also. I'll fly a Mossi and cherry vulch and run. I can't wait for all the WTFGs on 200. I r B teh Bestestest pilit ever.
-
You insist on spewing insults and denigrating others, presuming to tell us how we got all our kills.
Yes, many of those thousands of kills were obtained while diving from higher alt, but many were obtained co-alt and some were obtained being dived on by fighters that should have eaten me for lunch.
Would I engage suicidal odds in it like I will sometimes in a Spit of Ki-84? No, but I would engage many co-E fighters.
But no, you already know how we fly it. Oh wait, you don't. You just need to stroke your ego by being condesending to anybody who isn't marching in lockstep with you.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
I r B teh Bestestest pilit ever.
no....
you are an idiot. :D
-
Originally posted by Karnak
You insist on spewing insults and denigrating others, presuming to tell us how we got all our kills.
Yes, many of those thousands of kills were obtained while diving from higher alt, but many were obtained co-alt and some were obtained being dived on by fighters that should have eaten me for lunch.
Would I engage suicidal odds in it like I will sometimes in a Spit of Ki-84? No, but I would engage many co-E fighters.
But no, you already know how we fly it. Oh wait, you don't. You just need to stroke your ego by being condesending to anybody who isn't marching in lockstep with you.
My first statements about the Mossi in the MA were true and accurate. This is what most people do with it in the MA. It was not an insult. It was an observation. If 1% of thepopulation uses it defferently that does not change that fact. Now, when people start making statements about how good a flying brick can be, really what they are telling us is how good they are. When they clame that a mossi can be flown as a spit they are insulting the rest of us.
For some reason, you thought you are the only one flying a Mossi and that I was only talking about you in my posts. You could not continue with the argument that the Mossi is not a good fighter because it really isn't. So, what do you do? You start the name calling and the insults. Then claim that I am the one insulting people.
If stating my experiences in the MA is an insult to some then they need to change something. Not me. If you seriusly think given equal pilots and equal e states the mossi has any chance vs a fighter then you are the idiot. Not me. Killing a guy in his 2 week acount does not make you or your plane that good.
PS. It was you guys with your description of the advanced deffencive and offencive ACM manuvers that described very well how you fly the plane.
Please resume how grate you are by flying the secret plane that no one has ever descovered before. :rofl
-
Originally posted by Furball
no....
you are an idiot. :D
Furbie, is that puffy ack? you better hide :furious
-
dedalos,
You mischaracterize what was said. One person asked for advice. Then you and others jumped on him and told him that what he was asking was impossible and to just vulch and HO in it. Then when I and others said it was hard, but doable you extended your negative characterization of Mossie fans to us. When I tried to explain, you delved off into hyperbole insisting I was making claims that were clearly ludicrious.
1) I never said I could fly it like a Spitfire, though in at least one case one opponent said that fighting Karnak's Mossie was a harder fight than fighting Spitfires. Until now I have never referenced that.
2) I never claimed it was a "secret plane", just that it could be used as a fighter successfully. You added that condecending crap to belittle and attempt to make ridiculous my claims by changing my claim to something I never said.
3) Are you a politician?
-
Originally posted by dedalos
Furbie, is that puffy ack? you better hide :furious
I PUFFY YOU EYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :furious
-
Originally posted by Karnak
1) I never said I could fly it like a Spitfire, though in at least one case one opponent said that fighting Karnak's Mossie was a harder fight than fighting Spitfires. Until now I have never referenced that.
As I said you assumed I was only talking to you. You did not say that but if you read carefully, some one else did. You just decided to respond to that instead of the person that said it.
2) I never claimed it was a "secret plane", just that it could be used as a fighter successfully. You added that condecending crap to belittle and attempt to make ridiculous my claims by changing my claim to something I never said.
[/B]
Again, it was not directed at you. You just decided it was and responded.
3) Are you a politician?
[/B]
Nah, those guys are idiots
-
Originally posted by Furball
I PUFFY YOU EYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :furious
Not if I move fast and make lots of turns
-
i will catch you on my unicycle and puffy your eye with my squirty flower
-
Originally posted by dedalos
A couple of times that I run them down, they would turn for the HO till they died.
That is true for almost all La7 and N1K I meet in the MA. So what does that mean?
You see, unlike some experts, my ACM does not include nose down and run. When I see red icons, I fly towards them so a good plane does help engaging 3 or more bad guys.
I realize that now and I have seen the light. You are my new hero and from now on I will only fly La7 and Spit 16s so I can pwn "3 or more bad guys" without ever running from a fight like I used to.
Teh Mossie is useless.
Bozon
-
I used to love flying the Mossie in Aces High. Hopefully they haven't changed it too much in II, because it was a decent dogfighter back then.
Nice thing about the mossie, is that while it had poor vertical performance you could use it to your advantage and essentially control your stall over the top to really create a good snap turn. Also, nose down it had such a drag in turns that it would be very hard to pull inside of it. Things might have changed though.
-
Originally posted by Furball
i will catch you on my unicycle and puffy your eye with my squirty flower
:rofl
-
Originally posted by bozon
That is true for almost all La7 and N1K I meet in the MA. So what does that mean?
I realize that now and I have seen the light. You are my new hero and from now on I will only fly La7 and Spit 16s so I can pwn "3 or more bad guys" without ever running from a fight like I used to.
Teh Mossie is useless.
Bozon
Whats your in game ID Bozo? Do you have a point here or just asking random questions? Are you saing that it is true that the Mossies you meet go for the HO every time? Is this a lala spit 16 whine? Did you think I was talking to you? Was your keyboard acting by its self?
You totaly missed my point. No one said the Mossie is useless. It is just not a great dog fighter. It has the same qualities that the lala and niki has. It can run and it can ho given an initial alt advantage.
-
C Hawks organised a Mossie mission with the RTC and some others this past Wednesday. It was the first time in a Mossie in AH for me and some fun it was!
Now, for those who think that a Mossie is only good for vulching and HO's, I think that you're just flying it the way you fly all fighters :P
We were taking a port, P4 on Uterus, and were badly out numbered at all other front line fields so our raid siphoned off some of the hoard and briefly gave the Nits something to crow over while we were getting our butts kicked at the rest of the fields.
As we were trying to get a goon into P4 we attracted about half a dozen inbound enemy. C-Hogs, Spits, P51's and F6f5's all comming in at 10-15k.
Not realising that I still had 500 pounders on my wings and that I had left the bomb bay open I went on the attack. My first kill was a P51 who tried to attack me from 10 high. I just turned my nose up to him and we both fired our guns. A few 20mm hits on his elevetors and he was harmlessly floating down to earth.
Then I saw a C-Hog who had spotted out BAM1 in a goon about 4km from the base. BAM1 made him miss his first pass and as he was getting lined up for another pass I was presented with a beautiful full planeform deflection shot and shredded off his starboard wing.
Next a Seafire was buzzing around and I decided to turn with him a bit but after the first two turns he decided to go verticle, bad mistake on his part as he wound up nothing but a fuselage lawndarting to earth. Looked funny, like a missle at the apex of his flight as it noses over in it's final dash to it's death.
Finaly another C-Hog is buzzing around and I was able to get on his 6 from about 2k above. I dove down gathering speed to catch up with him and just as he kills one of our Mossies I pop him with a short 20mm burst.
Now, I'm no great virtual pilot, but to get four kills in my first Mossie flight, to me, kinda shows that either the Mossie is a very capable fighter if flown to it's strengths and aggressivly, or that those Rooks that died to my guns were very much lacking in SA, which I think most will agree, that SA is just as or even more important than what plane you are flying and those other pilot skills that people in AH are trying to attain and for some, brag about.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
In the MA there are only 2 deffencive moves they can do. Go for the HO and run. As far as survivability in it, just do what every one that drives the does. Come in for the vulch or HO. Extend 6K or more and repeat until you receive your WTFGs for flying one and landing 10 kills in it.
I disagree. But, if you say so.
Karaya
-
dedalos,
as for my 1st point Flatbar has kindly spelled it out for you:
Now, for those who think that a Mossie is only good for vulching and HO's, I think that you're just flying it the way you fly all fighters :P
Not specificaly directed at you, but you must agree most players do that no matter what they fly. You just might be annoyed by mossies more since they will tend to win it more.
My second point related to your self praising of how noble you are not running from a fight, diving in guns blazing against superior numbers, while singing the national anthem.
You act as if this is a thread directed against you. What's the problem? You don't get enough attention in the real world?
What is really your arguimen here? That the mossi is a good fighter? Or that you were so good for not using the best fighters like me?
So what bothers you is that people fly a plane because they like it, like its history, like its paint scheme, even though it is not the best?
Or does it bothers you that some people manage to enjoy a plane even if they loose the fight? Nobody here claimed to be superior... err, that is not entirely correct - you did!
And the last possibility is that you tried it once, got your prettythang handed back to you and that hurt your ego.
Have a nice day and fly what you like.
Bozon
-
Great post Flatbar.
-
No films were posted yet so here's one Shvontz sent me from yesterday. He was cheking the plane out after we talked about it.
Some bomber shooting and a 5 minutes knife fight with a spit 16. Most of the time speeds were below 200 mph and down to increadible 60 mph. Both pilots did some mistakes that could have ended the fight earlier. Eventually the spit engine cuts out (dried fuel tanks?) while stall fighting and he augers, taking only minor 303 hits (20mm missed).
While not the "mossie pwn!" you might expected it, shows how it is far from meat on the table.
Mossie vs. Spit16 (http://files.filefront.com/MOSS+16+0430ahf/;4914737;/fileinfo.html)
to both pilots.
Bozon
-
My first kill was a P51 who tried to attack me from 10 high. I just turned my nose up to him and we both fired our guns. A few 20mm hits on his elevetors and he was harmlessly floating down to earth.
So you HOed him ... that wasn't a fight.
Then I saw a C-Hog who had spotted out BAM1 in a goon about 4km from the base. BAM1 made him miss his first pass and as he was getting lined up for another pass I was presented with a beautiful full planeform deflection shot and shredded off his starboard wing.
You "picked" him when he was involved ... that wasn't a fight.
Next a Seafire was buzzing around and I decided to turn with him a bit but after the first two turns he decided to go verticle, bad mistake on his part as he wound up nothing but a fuselage lawndarting to earth.
Closest thing to a fight, but you obviously ran into a newb in a Spitfire. After 2 turns, you should have been dog food.
Finaly another C-Hog is buzzing around and I was able to get on his 6 from about 2k above. I dove down gathering speed to catch up with him and just as he kills one of our Mossies I pop him with a short 20mm burst.
Another "pick" ... that wasn't a fight.
The Mossie is a very capable airplane, but run into someone who knows how to fight in just about any other airplane ... it's curtains for the Mossie.
-
i landed 10 kills in mossie the other day.
i defensive manoeuvered by getting them while still on the runway and completely owned them all.
i was winning 3, even 4 vs 1's by doing this when they started rolling bombers.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
My first kill was a P51 who tried to attack me from 10 high. I just turned my nose up to him and we both fired our guns. A few 20mm hits on his elevetors and he was harmlessly floating down to earth.
So you HOed him ... that wasn't a fight.
Yep, I put my guns in his face as he tried to attack me from high above, the result of his continuing his attack while seeing my defensive move was him going back to the tower. Not a smart move by the 51.
Then I saw a C-Hog who had spotted out BAM1 in a goon about 4km from the base. BAM1 made him miss his first pass and as he was getting lined up for another pass I was presented with a beautiful full planeform deflection shot and shredded off his starboard wing.
You "picked" him when he was involved ... that wasn't a fight.
Yep, I picked off a pilot focused on killing a defenceless goon, I should have waited until he was done killing BAM1, forgive my obviously flawed morality for doing so.
Next a Seafire was buzzing around and I decided to turn with him a bit but after the first two turns he decided to go verticle, bad mistake on his part as he wound up nothing but a fuselage lawndarting to earth.
Closest thing to a fight, but you obviously ran into a newb in a Spitfire. After 2 turns, you should have been dog food.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda, the result was that he died in a fight where he had all the advantages.
I R De No0b kIlLa
Finaly another C-Hog is buzzing around and I was able to get on his 6 from about 2k above. I dove down gathering speed to catch up with him and just as he kills one of our Mossies I pop him with a short 20mm burst.
Another "pick" ... that wasn't a fight.
So, I guess all the people who fly with a wingman don't realy fight, they just want to have a friendly close by to show them how gloriously they can die in a fight.
The Mossie is a very capable airplane, but run into someone who knows how to fight in just about any other airplane ... it's curtains for the Mossie.
I guess you missed my point, but I suspect your aim will get better with age :P
Having good SA is just as important a factor in a fight as the strengths and weakness of a particular fighter if you fly to fight and survive.
-
Originally posted by Flatbar
I guess you missed my point, but I suspect your aim will get better with age :P
Having good SA is just as important a factor in a fight as the strengths and weakness of a particular fighter if you fly to fight and survive.
LOL .. my aim is fine ... thanks for asking ... :aok
The point was ... and you missed it ... you really never had a FIGHT (with the exception of the Spitty) so you weren't really flying to "fight and survive", so you really can't speak from a point of strength when commenting on how good of a "fighter" it is.
What you did could have been accomplished in any plane ... the Mossie really had nothing to do with it.
-
wooah.. despite all the arguements, thanks for all the info. i dont think i'll have time to master the mossie, but i sure have great respect for one.. just like ive always had.. but now wen i see a mossie in the MA, im ganna hafta watch out!
-
Originally posted by Flatbar
Now, for those who think that a Mossie is only good for vulching and HO's, I think that you're just flying it the way you fly all fighters :P
and you you go on to explain:
Not realising that I still had 500 pounders on my wings and that I had left the bomb bay open I went on the attack. My first kill was a P51 who tried to attack me from 10 high. I just turned my nose up to him and we both fired our guns. A few 20mm hits on his elevetors and he was harmlessly floating down to earth.
[/B]
Was that a HO?
Then I saw a C-Hog who had spotted out BAM1 in a goon about 4km from the base. BAM1 made him miss his first pass and as he was getting lined up for another pass I was presented with a beautiful full planeform deflection shot and shredded off his starboard wing.
[/B]
Bad SA or cherry?
Next a Seafire was buzzing around and I decided to turn with him a bit but after the first two turns he decided to go verticle, bad mistake on his part as he wound up nothing but a fuselage lawndarting to earth. Looked funny, like a missle at the apex of his flight as it noses over in it's final dash to it's death.
[/B]
Got 1, cool
Finaly another C-Hog is buzzing around and I was able to get on his 6 from about 2k above. I dove down gathering speed to catch up with him and just as he kills one of our Mossies I pop him with a short 20mm burst.
[/B]
Alt advantage and bad SA
Now, I'm no great virtual pilot, but to get four kills in my first Mossie flight, to me, kinda shows that either the Mossie is a very capable fighter if flown to it's strengths and aggressivly, or that those Rooks that died to my guns were very much lacking in SA, which I think most will agree, that SA is just as or even more important than what plane you are flying and those other pilot skills that people in AH are trying to attain and for some, brag about. [/B]
You are right. It was their SA that killd them. Not the Mossi.
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
I disagree. But, if you say so.
Karaya
Explain please. What else could they do vs a fighter? Do you ever fly a Mossi?
-
Originally posted by bozon
dedalos,
as for my 1st point Flatbar has kindly spelled it out for you:
bla bla bla bla
I did not take the thread personaly. Only your posts. Unlike flatbar that just posted his opinion, you came out of nowhere, took one of my responces to someone else out of context, and made some stupid remarks.
So, what is your in game ID? Why hide it?
-
Dedalos,
I think you are being a tad unreasonable.
You demand a co-E start to be on equal footing, but the only way that is going to ever be true is if the two fighters are the same, all the way down to the ammount of fuel they have. Beyond that, for it to be a fiar fight, one fighter will always need some advantage over the other, be it pilot skill, position or E state. To dismiss any kill because it started from an altitude advantage is ridiculous. Do you, as you are playing, say "Got 'em, but it didn't count as he was below me." or "I will only ever attack fighters that are co-E (as though you can tell) or with superior E."? I somehow doubt it, which means you are holding the Mossie, for whatever reasons of hostility you have, to an unreasonable standard.
Nobody has ever claimed the Mossie was the most spectacular one-on-one dogfighter, not even those who claim to be able to fly it like a Spit. For some reason you seem very set in stone as to the Mossie's complete uselessness and will not take anything else for an answer.
Did you watch the Mossie VI vs Spit XVI film? Certainly it wasn't the best Spit pilot, but the Mossie drew it out far, far longer than your discription would have us believe possible against any Spit XVI, and it started co-alt.
For my part I simply like the Mossie. I like to aircraft and its history. I was merely good enough to be able to use it with more success than failure. Does that mean I am bragging? I don't know.
-
:lol
Karmak, ofcorse not. I will attack anything. I never claimed that I wont count a kill because I had the advantage. I never said the Mossi was useless nor do I have any hostility towards it. here is how it started:
Someone asked a question about the mossi. I figured it would be funny to reply the way I did. Had this been an LA7 question everyone would have jumped in saing lalas and their pilits suck :D
However, what happened was that some one said that a good pilot (usually people mean themselfs when they say that) could fly it like a spit. So, I replied to that and then someone that really likes the plane and hapens to be good in it took it kind of personally. Some insults were thrown out so I figued I'd continue. Then some people that never fly it nor could fly a spit like a spit had to put their 2 cents in.
So, nothing against the mossie. But you cannot really argue that it is a good fighter. It was never meant to be that. Can some people fly it really well? Sure. Do most use it for vulching? you can bet. And yes you can say that about every other plane also. As far as the film goes, well I have one from last night were a mossi ingnored every plane around it and made a bee line for the vulch. He just exploded on the runway. Does that prove anything?
So, no hostility against the plane or anyone else. Some people failed to see the sarkasm in the original post, some got upset because I described them preety well :lol and some wanted to tell everyone how good they are by knowing how to fight with a mossi.
I've killed spit16s and nikis in a P40 several times. Does that make it the secret ultimet fighter that can be flown like a spit? Afcorse not. Those guys either got jumped, had low e, or were just inexperienced. Nothing to do with the plane. Given any half dicent stick in those spits or nikis and having seen me on time, I would have died every single time. So, same goes for the mossie