Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Revor on March 22, 2006, 06:03:47 AM
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This would make things very interesting if the good ole boys from HTC could put this in. I like the perk plane factory idea but instead of using perk planes how about the top of the line non perk planes such as the spit16, la7, niki, etc. When the factory is destroyed you can no longer use the listed planes above for at least an hour. It would make things a whole lot interesting and also make people more tempted to defend the factories. Good ideal Filth
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Because you would never see those planes in the air again. That factory would be down for the duration of the map.
What exactly bothers you about the Spits, lalas, and NIKIs? They die as easyly as the rest.
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Why not have a "perk plane" factory and a "high end plane" factory? As the factory level is lowered, the types of planes is lowered for that zone. IF it is under, say 10%, nothing is coming out at all. On the up side, it could be resupplied to get the factory up and running faster. This would give more for the bombers to hit and the resuppliers to do. Okay, it may hurt the furballers some in a zone, but right now it seems the furballers get everything they want and the bombers get zilch. For the most part, the strat system is in bad shape and mean little to nothing. IF this is going to become a fighter/GV game, then dump the bombers and be done with it! On the other hand, if it is going to be a "total" war game, then make the strat worth it!
Defending the factories could make for a great furball anyway! Fighters defending a factory from the bombers, the bombers having escorts to protect them. That sounds like a lot of fighting right there! Also, as the factories are not on the "front lines" it would be harder for the bombers to get to them anyway.
This, along with fuel, troops and ord updates would go a loooonnnng way to fixing a big problem!
But this is all IMHO!
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Originally posted by Gato
W Okay, it may hurt the furballers some in a zone, but right now it seems the furballers get everything they want and the bombers get zilch. For the most part, the strat system is in bad shape and mean little to nothing. IF this is going to become a fighter/GV game, then dump the bombers and be done with it!
Because the small % of buffs can ruin if for the majority of furball pilots. A flight of buffs that go up to 25k can go walking into a field without attack. That lone flight of say lancs could wipe out a small field of FH's maybe a medium field and have some jabos go in and knock the rest out. What furballer goes up to 25k to furball.
As it is now buff lazers are already pretty deadly with a short squirt from them on a fighter can damage the engine or give a pw.
Im not one that so much cares about the buff guns being toned down as there are not many people that are actually good with them, but buff pilots need to find something else to hit besides FH's.
Like I said that small % of buff dweebs can ruin it for a majority of furballers.
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Originally posted by Hoarach
Because the small % of buffs can ruin if for the majority of furball pilots. A flight of buffs that go up to 25k can go walking into a field without attack. That lone flight of say lancs could wipe out a small field of FH's maybe a medium field and have some jabos go in and knock the rest out. What furballer goes up to 25k to furball.
As it is now buff lazers are already pretty deadly with a short squirt from them on a fighter can damage the engine or give a pw.
Im not one that so much cares about the buff guns being toned down as there are not many people that are actually good with them, but buff pilots need to find something else to hit besides FH's.
Like I said that small % of buff dweebs can ruin it for a majority of furballers.
Like I said, if this is going to be a fighter/GV game, dump the bombers and be done with it. As it stands now, the bombers have little to do really. And when they do it, the furballers cry and complain.
IF you think the bomber guns are the "lasers", than you have come across some good gunners. Try being in a bomber when there are 2 - 5 fighters coming at you at once. I know who will win and it's not the bomber guy.
This just goes to show how one sided the thinking is of furballers. They don't want anything which can stop them, or even slow them down. I can understand it, but please try and see the other side of it too.
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:lol Everything comes down to furbalers. I don't see how it would hurt them, but . . . .
Have you seen the whines about the ENY? Try imagining the MA with those factories constantly down. HT would have to get a new server for the BBS :lol
I am guessing that you are not a furballer since you blame them for everything so from your personal experience, you should know that it is impossible to deffend agaist the warriers that fall on buildings at 3 times the speed of sound. I think HT should open a new forum where all the ideas about stopping fighting should be posted.
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Originally posted by dedalos
:lol Everything comes down to furbalers. I don't see how it would hurt them, but . . . .
Have you seen the whines about the ENY? Try imagining the MA with those factories constantly down. HT would have to get a new server for the BBS :lol
I am guessing that you are not a furballer since you blame them for everything so from your personal experience, you should know that it is impossible to deffend agaist the warriers that fall on buildings at 3 times the speed of sound. I think HT should open a new forum where all the ideas about stopping fighting should be posted.
Okay, like I said, I can see your point. Look at ENY, there was a BIG stink about it, but now it is old hat. I not only bomb, but fly fighters too. So I Don't want to stop the fight. I really don't see that the fighting would stop. And I don't see a single bomber formation flattening a factory either. Even now, a single bomber can't flatten the factories we have, and no one cares about them. If you put the plane factories in, I believe it would create more fighing than it would stop. Just look at what happens when 2 or 3 bombers head to the HQ. Last week we did an HQ run with 4 bombers. The number of fighters which met us was overwhelming and only one bomber made it to the HQ. It was great fun, I think the fighters enjoyed it too. BTW, we didn't even have fighter escorts. Just think about the fight if we had. It could be the same thing over or close to the factories.
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Originally posted by Gato
IF you think the bomber guns are the "lasers", than you have come across some good gunners. Try being in a bomber when there are 2 - 5 fighters coming at you at once. I know who will win and it's not the bomber guy.
True I always see myself going up against 999 many times, stupid me you can say.
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Hoarach, there is your mistake! I wouldn't go up againt him for love nor money. He's just too good with those guns! Just a note, if you see a low bomber, it just might be him, so be careful. The other mistake many fighters make (and I may be killing myself for saying this) is when they do a dead 6 attack. There are a lot of guns which come to bare there. They are not laser, but a lot of them. Most bombers never man the waist guns.
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I usually try the high 6 which I found buffs have trouble shooting even 999. Get a quick squirt into the cockpit, which is where I aim, usually makes the bomber go poof. Usually kills me is when going through is that the drone pops foward to take the place usually kills me.
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Not my idea. We had a spit factory in AW and it was a fun target. Just think it would be a fun one here too. :)
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Originally posted by Gato
IF you think the bomber guns are the "lasers", than you have come across some good gunners. Try being in a bomber when there are 2 - 5 fighters coming at you at once. I know who will win and it's not the bomber guy.
This just goes to show how one sided the thinking is of furballers. They don't want anything which can stop them, or even slow them down. I can understand it, but please try and see the other side of it too.
I must be a good gunenr then. My first time in buffs after a year and half, I came back with 5 kills and all buffs in tact. On my second, I came back with 4. I r TeH gOOd.
Sounds like you are the one being one sided here. Your only argument is furball furballer whaaa whaaa. News flash ===============>Furballers dont attack buffs.
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Originally posted by dedalos
I must be a good gunenr then. My first time in buffs after a year and half, I came back with 5 kills and all buffs in tact. On my second, I came back with 4. I r TeH gOOd.
Sounds like you are the one being one sided here. Your only argument is furball furballer whaaa whaaa. News flash ===============>Furballers dont attack buffs.
Okay, so maybe I'm lumping some guys together in the "furballer" category wrongly. But we are talking about guys who really don't want bombers in the game other than as an easy target. They complain bombers "kill" their fun in fighters by taking the FHs down.
Some people are better at gunning than others and THAT IS A FACT. But the ones who call the bomber guns lasers are wrong, they aren't. Shot gun is more like it.
Dedalos, all in all, this tread has to do with "perk plane" factories anyway. In other words, other targets for bombers. Fighters can find a fight any place, but bombers are very limited on worthwhile targets.
And on those 5 kills, was it only plane at a time coming at you???
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No problem. Just slap up my "delayed attrition" concept to the whole thing and it's perfectly fair for everyone.
1. Hitting a target factory will have a global, serious impact on whatever that factory is producing.
2. However, hitting it on an individual occasion will be meaningless. A very very very huge amount of ordnance will be required to bring down the factory's efficiency. Something like 42,000lbs of bombs required to bring down 5% efficiency. 0% efficiency = production halt. Once the factory is totally destroyed, it will have to regen upto at least 50% to start production again.
3. Make it so that the system keeps track of the amount of bombs dropped on the factory.
4. The factory efficiency will regenerate at a rate of 5% per hour. Individual supply goon drop will boost up 1% per supply.
So what do we get with a system like this?
An individual bomber formation penetration will do nothing to the factory. Only when it is totally destroyed will the production halt. Since 42,000lbs of bombs will destroy 5% of the efficiency, that amounts to 20 Lanc formations (60 bombers) dropping all of their load on the target to destroy it. Ofcourse, this factory will be placed somewhere deep into the territory, near the HQ or something.
The beauty of this is that the factory regens itself at 5% per hour. How often can a few people get through the entire defenses and reach the HQ? A deck-run Lanc or two would knock off about 5~10% of the production efficienct, but that will be all patched up in an hour or two.
So, if at least two people who have way too much time in their hands team up, and start ferrying his bombers again and again and again into enemy territory, they'll have to do that 20 times in a row to finally kill off a factory.
If two people fly two Lanc forms. (6bombers) and take one hour to reach the target deep inside enemy territory, assuming for some great miracle all their bombers survived, they'll knock 10% eff. from the factory. By the time they drop load, get shot down or dweebily bail, and get their two buffs to the target again, 5% is regened. So they will have to do it for 20 hours straight 20 times in a row.
Meaning: only a really well coordinated, massive number of buffs can really damage the factory. It will take at least 10 Lancaster forms(30 buffs) and all their planes surviving to knock off 50% from the factory at a single time. How often does anyone make missions like those?
Only when a certain country is unrecoverably losing, and the reset phase is imminent, will the target factory be constantly down. In all other cases, if one side wants to kill the enemies plane factory, then they'll have to gather a whole lot of people and do it the right way, and succeed in the collective effort, to reach their goal. If they can't gather enough people (at least 20 Lancaster formations, all planes surviving), then they'll have to do it again and again and again - at least succeed in a aerial bombing raid two or three times in a row, to really destroy a factory.
No one or two dweeb, or even three or four dweebs, will be able to just larry some ord or deck-run a buff into enemy territory and ruin it for everyone. If one side is truly determined, and constantly make a huge collective effort to kill their target, it is only then they will succeed. And if the enemy comes up like that, ofcourse, the defenses will have to either counter it - or sugger the consequences of not responding to a huge enemy bomber formation.
Personally, I think all game strats should be handled this way. Huge amount of collective ordnance load required to kill, and the results going global. The fuel refineries, radar, ordnance, etc etc..
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Originally posted by Gato
Okay, so maybe I'm lumping some guys together in the "furballer" category wrongly. But we are talking about guys who really don't want bombers in the game other than as an easy target. They complain bombers "kill" their fun in fighters by taking the FHs down.
Some people are better at gunning than others and THAT IS A FACT. But the ones who call the bomber guns lasers are wrong, they aren't. Shot gun is more like it.
Dedalos, all in all, this tread has to do with "perk plane" factories anyway. In other words, other targets for bombers. Fighters can find a fight any place, but bombers are very limited on worthwhile targets.
And on those 5 kills, was it only plane at a time coming at you???
Nop, they came in in 2s and 3s. Same thing with a fighter though. If you get jumped by 5 you dont really expect to survive, do you?
I know what the thread is about and I answered properly in my first post. Someone else took it to a different subject. So, mod them first please.
If there was such thing as plane factories, they would constantly be down. Therefore, they would not provide a good target for buffs (unless you like hitting stuff thats already destroid) except of the first couple of guys to hit them. The would be just like a refinery. When was the last time you found one up so you could bomb it?
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Originally posted by dedalos
Nop, they came in in 2s and 3s. Same thing with a fighter though. If you get jumped by 5 you dont really expect to survive, do you?
I know what the thread is about and I answered properly in my first post. Someone else took it to a different subject. So, mod them first please.
If there was such thing as plane factories, they would constantly be down. Therefore, they would not provide a good target for buffs (unless you like hitting stuff thats already destroid) except of the first couple of guys to hit them. The would be just like a refinery. When was the last time you found one up so you could bomb it?
I don't think you are really looking at this as it would/could be. Nobody cares about the refineries as they you can't take fuel down anyway. So nobody protects the refineries. If, on the other hand, it is a factory which puts out and controls fighters, you can bet it will be protected by fighters. Look at the idea Kweassa has on this. I think the numbers are a little high for it, but the concept is sound with a lot of merit. Also, if there are several of these fighter factories producing different eny planes (without labels as to which and rotated on each map) then you have bombers trying to take down several different ones and fighters protecting them all. In the opening hours on a new map, there isn't a try on HQ and so it would be with these factories. They would be too deep in protected territory. As the war wages on, there would be more and more trying on the factories and more and more fighters up to protect them. Granted the alt would be higher than most furballers go for a fight, but I'm sure they would go up.
Last week we upped 4 buff formations to hit an HQ. We were met by more fighters than I could count. Only one even made it to HQ and home again. (no, it wasn't me either) But it was great fun It would have been even better if we all had the extra gunner onbaord, but we didn't.
There are so many ways to have strategic targets which mean something for bombers to hit that are not being using right now. They would get some of the bomber guys off of killing the FHs and still mean something. This would also widen the venue of targets for fighters. The choice becames, do I furball, protect the base or protect strat factories?
Look at WWII and the bombing runs on the fuel refineries, ball bearing factories, etc. These were targets which could help end the war, so they were bombed over and over again. There were also fighters there to greet them.
Letting AH be just a furballer or fighter game is limiting and in the end boring to many people. I, for one, get tired of just "jumping" into a fighter, going to kill another fighter and either get killed or RTB, then do the same thing over and over again. That's what you can use DA for. In MA you can pick what plane/vehicle you want and fight the fight you want, be it one on one combat, horde raid or strategy play. Or it at least it should be that way. IMO
With the system in place as it is now, there is really little for the bomber guys to do. High alt base porking, or CV hunting. Base porking and CV sinking can be done by fighters, so why do we have the bombers to begin with? Back in AHI, it was for strategy targets, but for the the most part, the strat system in AHII doesn't exist.
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Gato,
It is not the real buff guys I am worried about. Not the once that will destroy a base in order to take it. Not the onse that will actually do it form 10K or 20K. Not tthe people that are trying to win the war. I have no problems with that and I don't think they are out there to destroy anyones fun.
Its the diving LANCs and the jabos that will be augering on those factoriesn 24-7 that I wory about. I guarantee you that the real buff drivers will have nothing to hit after after the first havlf hour of a new map. Some will do it because they dont know any better and some because they can and some because they think it is funny to hear the whines on 200.
The problem is that when we make a comment about some idiot diving his bombers on the FHs in FT for example, all the other buff guys think we talk about them and we are trying to remove them from the game. Then we all get labeled furbalers as if that is something evil.
In anycase, there are people in this game that have fun by stopping other peoples fun. They will make sure those factories stay down.
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Originally posted by Hoarach
True I always see myself going up against 999 many times, stupid me you can say.
LOL
I was flying in a big buff raid with 999 and tater about a week ago. Must have been 17 flight in the formation. Only buffs intiailly attacked out of them all where guess... 999 and tater. They were fighter magnets.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Gato,
It is not the real buff guys I am worried about. Not the once that will destroy a base in order to take it. Not the onse that will actually do it form 10K or 20K. Not tthe people that are trying to win the war. I have no problems with that and I don't think they are out there to destroy anyones fun.
Its the diving LANCs and the jabos that will be augering on those factoriesn 24-7 that I wory about. I guarantee you that the real buff drivers will have nothing to hit after after the first havlf hour of a new map. Some will do it because they dont know any better and some because they can and some because they think it is funny to hear the whines on 200.
The problem is that when we make a comment about some idiot diving his bombers on the FHs in FT for example, all the other buff guys think we talk about them and we are trying to remove them from the game. Then we all get labeled furbalers as if that is something evil.
In anycase, there are people in this game that have fun by stopping other peoples fun. They will make sure those factories stay down.
Dive bombing lanc! Yeah, I've seen it and to this day can't believe HTC hasn't corrected the modeling. Heavy bombers were never designed to dive bomb. I'm not saying it never happened, I really don't know. But I find it silly and very unreal. Okay, so we play a game and it is all unreal, but this falls way beyond that, at least for me.
BTW, I never have 200 on. I guess I got burnt out back in AHI on that, it was always way too much bull for me.
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Originally posted by Revor
This would make things very interesting if the good ole boys from HTC could put this in. I like the perk plane factory idea but instead of using perk planes how about the top of the line non perk planes such as the spit16, la7, niki, etc. When the factory is destroyed you can no longer use the listed planes above for at least an hour. It would make things a whole lot interesting and also make people more tempted to defend the factories. Good ideal Filth
uh.....:huh why not just destroy the fighter hangers
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Originally posted by Gato
BTW, I never have 200 on. I guess I got burnt out back in AHI on that, it was always way too much bull for me.
:O Better ask HT for a refund. You are missing half of the fun :D
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Originally posted by dedalos
:O Better ask HT for a refund. You are missing half of the fun :D
:rofl