Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on April 27, 2001, 08:16:00 AM
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First step in stopping the endless slaughter of the unborn:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,17175,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,17175,00.html)
Pro "choicers" watch out !!!
Eagler
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum4/HTML/002017.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum4/HTML/002017.html)
Just for you Eagler
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For a prospective parent who did not intend to have abortion, loss of a fetus is a loss of a child.
If we do have an irrational system where the result of the action is judged rather then the action itself or even intent, the harm done to a prospective parent as a result of a loss of a fetus is quite real and should be accounted for.
It could probably have been done more reasonably as rights of pregnant women then rights of the fetuses though.
Wether this will be used as a pretext to interfere into our right to choose, we will see.
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Sad to say, but the Senate will stop this bill (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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I guess pretty soon you all want bills stating what time of night you can have sex at too? I am sorry but I for one do not support this,taking away more rights an individual has is wrong. I guess you all want the assisted suicide ban as well? Freakin tree huggers
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Originally posted by Sturm:
I am sorry but I for one do not support this,taking away more rights an individual has is wrong. I guess you all want the assisted suicide ban as well? Freakin tree huggers
And what of the rights of the unborn child?
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Good! I hope the Senate squashes this.
(http://www.protectchoice.org/ads/subway/abortion_clinic.jpg)
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(http://www.protectchoice.org/ads/subway/operating_room.jpg)
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(http://www.protectchoice.org/ads/subway/patient_recovery.jpg)
http://www.protectchoice.org (http://www.protectchoice.org)
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Rip, they will tell ya that it's not a child, it's just a glob of stuff. It's not human.
The real question is when is it(glob of stuff) human?
I say conception. What say you?
Choice is the option before conception (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by 1776 (edited 04-27-2001).]
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It's ok sandman. Because back-street abortions are less visible, the 'pro-life' people can pretend that the problem is solved.
What's out of sight, is out of mind.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
And what of the rights of the unborn child?
Key thing you said there is unborn. What of the rights? What about the rights of the woman or family this pertains too? And who are we to base or judge our sentiment on someone else's grief and or joy. Is it wrong to abort a child that might cause the death of the mother? Is it wrong to abort a child of a woman that was just brutally raped by a bunch of men? A child born with birth known painful birth defects and the family will not be able to afford medical attention so therefore making the child suffer its entire life?
Stop and think for awhile it might hurt but just try it. Rip this is not pointed at you but to everyone. Selfishness is really starting to show. I know all you pro-lifers are about to come un-glued but think of the others and their situation before you spew out your pictures and lies.
And Sandman I think you are a little to attached to your TV. Remember not everything they show is real, just a little tip for ya.
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Originally posted by Sturm:
And Sandman I think you are a little to attached to your TV.
I don't own a television, Sturm.
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Sandman that makes 2 of us in VA that don't.
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Well... should have phrased that differently... I don't own a television, here in VA. I'm on a year-long training assignment. Left my television in California and I really haven't watched TV at all in six months other than the occasional glimpse of sporting events in various bars.
WRT to the pro-choice posters, I've seen them on the Metro here in DC. http://www.protectchoice.org (http://www.protectchoice.org)
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sturm/sandman
dunno if the fact you both don't own/watch tv give your opinions any weight (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
think that sounds extreme to the point of kooky, glad to see you both are pro choicers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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I'm torn on this one.
On one hand I don't think you or I have the right to tell a woman how she is going to live her life.
On the other hand I'm not sure that abortions are right.
I guess I lean more to choice because I don't know the woman and I don't know why she is doing what she is doing and I won't judge her till I do.
A question to all you pro-life people. This is not meant as a flame or anything but how many of you have adopted kids? How many of you are vegitarians? Isn't killing cows and pigs and stuff still killing?
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This is truly great news. I for one am sick and tired of watching fetuses protesting on the six o'clock news.
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I know both sides here are all in favor of conspiracies, but I support this bill fully and would love to see free abortions on demand.
Now figure my angle there! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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What bothers me is the phrase
"a womans right to choose"
I find it intersting that a man has no say so in this process , but if the woman "chooses" to have the child the man is required to pay child support.
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Originally posted by Fatty:
I know both sides here are all in favor of conspiracies, but I support this bill fully and would love to see free abortions on demand.
Now figure my angle there! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
about 45 degrees, the angle that gets most of us into trouble and is at the root of this problem (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
good one blur
Eagler
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Cool next time I get angry I'll just murder somebody and tell the judge it was "my right to choose".
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Hehe, sucker born every day, eh Sandman? I see those silly "Left Scare Tactics" worked on you! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Yeah... good idea, Funked. Do that.
Rip, I support a women's right to choose. Some people believe that abortions are bad. Others do not. Pro-choice legislature allows you to practice your belief without imposing it on others. An abortion is a "big deal". I believe it's not a decision to be taken lightly, but I also believe that no one has the right to make that decision for you.
Are the protect choice posters a scare tactic? Sure, no argument there. They are certainly illustrating the extreme.
[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 04-27-2001).]
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Pro-lifers want to force their views into other peoples lives. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. If you are pro-life you belive that your views are more important than anyone else's and that the other guy/gal shouldn't have the right to choose what's best for them and their own life.
Pro-choicers run the gamut from idiots to non-idiots just like anything else. But at the base of it, they stand for the rights of people to live their own lives.
SOB
...Doesn't belive in abortion but is strongly pro-choice.
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Originally posted by SOB:
Pro-lifers want to force their views into other peoples lives. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. If you are pro-life you belive that your views are more important than anyone else's and that the other guy/gal shouldn't have the right to choose what's best for them and their own life.
Pro-choicers run the gamut from idiots to non-idiots just like anything else. But at the base of it, they stand for the rights of people to live their own lives.
SOB
...Doesn't belive in abortion but is strongly pro-choice.
not pressing my opinion/view on anyone as I realize most ppl are just too stupid to comprehend right from wrong. I feel abortion is murder 98% of the time as it is used as a method of birth control.
here's a tame site, there are many more gruesome on the net if you dare: http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/pba.html (http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/pba.html)
And drop the "she was raped and deserves an abortion" line as this % of annual abortions is so low as not to be a factor either way. The majority of abortions are performed on "women" 17 to 28 years old and is done as an after the fact birth control. Self control on her part would have prevented the situation in the first place. Shame we are promoting a generation of sluts.
Eagler
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well I am pro-life mostly, I do believe that if the mothers life is at risk, or rape/incest abortions should be allowed.
If you not willing to take responsibility for a child you should not be having sex. End of story.
narsus
[This message has been edited by narsus (edited 04-27-2001).]
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Originally posted by Eagler:
Self control on her part would have prevented the situation in the first place. Shame we are promoting a generation of sluts.
Okay... I get it now... a woman that has unprotected sex is a slut...
right...
The reference to partial-birth abortions is every bit as extreme as the pro-choice posters I posted earlier. Women do not carry healthy pregnancies for seven or eight months and then abort on a whim. On those rare occasions when women have third-trimester abortions, they do so because their fetuses have severe or fatal anomalies or because the pregnancy endangers their lives or health. Long-standing, unchallenged statutes in 40 states and the District of Columbia prohibit elective abortions by any method after fetal viability.
[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 04-27-2001).]
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM:
Okay... I get it now... a woman that has unprotected sex is a slut...
right...
usually and ignorant too ... my last post in this thread.
thank you
Eagler
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ok so you are calling my wife a slut? Those are fightin words buddy. At any rate who are you to judge or decide what another person does with their body?
I will petition a bill that states we are only allowed to piss and toejam at work once a day. that way we can get more work out of you and make sure you do not eat or drink before showing up. Yes productivity might be down but the time saved from bathroom breaks will make it so we pull ahead.
Eagler has the little elf been making cookies up stairs again? My bad thats Keebler, at any rate keep hugging trees sometimes a situation rears its ugly head and people like you who haven't a clue as to what could possibly lie ahead. Selfishness is one thing, if people go out and get knocked up 10 times so be it that is there fault. Will I not sleep well at night? Has this interferred with my life in someway?
Ever notice the people who are Pro life are the ones you wouldn't want to sleep with anyway!
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Oh and sandman I apologize I thought you were posting those pictures because you were pro life my bad. I guess sometimes you should read before acting. My bad...
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Originally posted by Sturm:
Ever notice the people who are Pro life are the ones you wouldn't want to sleep with anyway!
Hehe... no kidding... same rule applies to women that are anti-porn. Don't want to see them naked either.
NP Sturm, no apology necessary... gonna have to re-read your posts because now I'm completely confused. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Krusher... yeah, your point is valid. No argument. I guess that as a man, I can only expect a voice in the decision if I'm in a committed relationship with the woman. Bring this point up to a woman... you'll definitely get a hostile reaction. It is, afterall, her womb.
[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 04-27-2001).]
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Originally posted by Eagler:
not pressing my opinion/view on anyone as I realize most ppl are just too stupid to comprehend right from wrong. I feel abortion is murder 98% of the time as it is used as a method of birth control.
here's a tame site, there are many more gruesome on the net if you dare: http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/pba.html (http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/pba.html)
And drop the "she was raped and deserves an abortion" line as this % of annual abortions is so low as not to be a factor either way. The majority of abortions are performed on "women" 17 to 28 years old and is done as an after the fact birth control. Self control on her part would have prevented the situation in the first place. Shame we are promoting a generation of sluts.
Eagler
Well, first I'd like you to point out where I said anything about abortions in the case of rape...I purposely left that out, because it's a very small part of the bigger argument and since I'm pro-choice, my opinion on that is pretty much covered without mentioning it.
Also, I agree with most of what you said there (except I think it's wrong...not murder), and looking at a site about partial-birth abortions does nothing for me and doesn't change the issue. People should be more responsible and abortions should be the exception and not the norm. However, the solution to this is not limiting someone's access to quality care should they choose to have an abortion. The solution is quality parenting, and while this won't solve the problem completely, it can go a long way.
You don't have to like abortion to be pro-choice, you just have to have an open mind.
SOB
-edit- I agree with everything except the 'sluts' comment...that was just dumb. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 04-27-2001).]
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Heh. Guys. Read what it's about.
This particular bill isn't about abotion. It's probably an attempt to get there by sneaking in by the back door.
It's about, say, if someone kicks a pregnant woman in the stomach and kills the fetus. That kinda thing.
Of course, in Roe vs Wade, the conclusion was that a fetus was not a person. I suspect this one could go all the way to the highest courts.
For you people who are very fond of your constitution, it's the 14th amendment. Start messing with this, and yer 2nd amendment isn't far away. If you are adament about the defense of the 2nd amendment, and yer constitutional rights, you should be equally adament about this one.
Unless, of course, you're hypocrites. This is an excellent time to find out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Don't count yer eggs...
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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://stsantas.tripod.com/stsanta.jpg)
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 04-28-2001).]
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k there are two sides to this bomb...
k i know a girl who is 21 and she has been preggo 6 times, all outside wedlock, and probably on the bathroom floor.. each time she has aborted the child...i mean true enough the fathers were prolly porked too but that is still not excuse...abortion is not birth control in hindsight...
however those poor girls inpgreganted through rape, sexual assualt or through forced incest should not be forced to bring a child to term against there wishes...
but what really sucks, and what many of you have never thought about is that poor guy left on the outside..
i myself know a guy who pregoed a girl and he wanted to keep it.. but it was outside his control and she had a free choice abortion..poor guy...
oh well, no answer on this one anytime soon (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Originally posted by StSanta:
This particular bill isn't about abotion. It's probably an attempt to get there by sneaking in by the back door.
It's about, say, if someone kicks a pregnant woman in the stomach and kills the fetus. That kinda thing.
For you people who are very fond of your constitution, it's the 14th amendment...
Exactly, Santa... On the surface, this bill is not about abortion... it's about prosecuting criminals for inflicting harm upon fetuses during attacks on pregnant women. Of course, it can be viewed as a threat to Roe v Wade as well.
WRT 14th Amendment... I'm an idiot... How does it apply to this situation?
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cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs (http://www.screaminbluemessiahs.org)
The SBM's are hiring! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum11/HTML/000263.html)
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Originally posted by Dowding:
It's ok sandman. Because back-street abortions are less visible, the 'pro-life' people can pretend that the problem is solved.
What's out of sight, is out of mind.
Not a problem, you just need to give bigger penalties for those who break the LAW. It has worked very well in your "war on drugs" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
[This message has been edited by mora (edited 04-28-2001).]
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this is a hot issue that ends up getting emotiional, so I aint about to argue one way or the other over the internet. It just gets too nasty here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) For those that are worried about it passing, however, it seems very unlikely that it will, even if it does get through the senate. The article states that the supreme court has held that a fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment and has ruled accordingly for the last 3 decades. So it seems unlikely to me that this bill would ever make it through the judical branch of the government. Unless there was a major change in thinking, they would label this bill as unconstitutional and it would be dead. Am I wrong here? Perhaps they worded the bill so that it doesn't target abortions specifically?
newguy
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That ruling is only for the first part of the pregnancy Newguy. I think up to the 3rd trimester, not sure offhand.
The wording of the ruling is that in that last (I think trimester, again not sure) no state may violate the rights of the unborn. IOW all those furious over the potential personification of the fetus should argue the very decision they hold dear.
For the record, I'm actually for free abortions on demand, but this argument always goes so far from any shred of truth it's a chore even to follow one, much less take part in it.