Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 96Delta on March 24, 2006, 03:06:05 PM
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ROOKS WANTED FOR MISSION ALLIANCE
If you enjoy being a part of MISSIONS
and like them to be BIG...then...
Come to vox111 during the game and participate!
David "96Delta"
Loose Cannons Alliance
http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/
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Sure sign me up. :aok
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Oh great now their wont be any furballs to find now as a rook. :cry
Figures it would be a LCA to bring this up. :furious
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Originally posted by Hoarach
Oh great now their wont be any furballs to find now as a rook. :cry
Figures it would be a LCA to bring this up. :furious
First, I need to say that I love ya Hoarach! I really do. :)
Listen brother, if you want furballs, tag along with us.
We always find ourselves in the thick of enemy opposition
and a capable fighter pilot like yourself would be a welcome sight!
We need all the help we can muster!
David "96Delta"
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Originally posted by Hoarach
Oh great now their wont be any furballs to find now as a rook. :cry
I dunno ... whenever our missions uncloak from NOE we always seem to generate a real nice furball where ever we are. Right over an enema base too. What more could you want?
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111 is a great channel to tune to for rooks...Always a good amount of people on, and everyone is always willing to work together.....There is one thing that I do not see though, and that I need to stress!
Vehicle Hanger has to go down first! We never seem to prioritize (however you spell it) the VH, nor do we put someone who can hit 100% of the time on it...I mean yea you can take down all the FH's and disable them for 15 minutes...But your left with IL2's and 15-20 M-16's, Panzers, Ostys and maybe a tiger or two to deal with....Id much rather fight lgays and spits...
VHVHVH
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Yeah, Hooch has mentioned leavin our old washed up group of 38 sticks to fly with you guys delta.
Good luck with him, hes a rascal!:lol
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Lazerr,
90% of the guys who are 'Loose Cannons' are in squads.
The 'Loose Cannons Alliance' isn't a squad. Like the name says, we're an alliance. We have no commanding officer. Guys organize missions and we join, its that simple.
We're just a bunch of players who like being part of big missions.
We enjoy working together as a group to achieve a common goal.
Any ROOK can participate in our missions any time they want: whether they are in a squad or not.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I dunno ... whenever our missions uncloak from NOE we always seem to generate a real nice furball where ever we are. Right over an enema base too. What more could you want?
intact FHs?:)
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Originally posted by Lazerr
Yeah, Hooch has mentioned leavin our old washed up group of 38 sticks to fly with you guys delta.
Good luck with him, hes a rascal!:lol
Lazer, you guys would have to shoot me before that happens. I wont go without a fight. :t
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A horde is a horde is a horde
Why? what barely defended bases you hordewarriors planning on swamping this time? (http://www.mazeguy.net/basic/sarcastic.gif)
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i seem to recall loose cannon alliance trying to take ftr town.i get vulched alot (my fault) but i also look up every player that vulches me and got more than a few from your group..vulch away on every field no prob..please leave ftr town alone...flame away..its a good way to get hated real quick, if thats the object
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Originally posted by pluck
intact FHs?:)
Fighter Town was a goof ... compared to the cheapjack crap I see committed by others on a regular basis it's trivial.
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You did an excellant job on FT with your alliance! I have seldom seen a better cooridinated attack between bombers and field surpressors in my time in AH. Again S!
Mulligan:aok
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Originally posted by StracCop
Lazerr,
90% of the guys who are 'Loose Cannons' are in squads.
The 'Loose Cannons Alliance' isn't a squad. Like the name says, we're an alliance. We have no commanding officer. Guys organize missions and we join, its that simple.
We're just a bunch of players who like being part of big missions.
We enjoy working together as a group to achieve a common goal.
Any ROOK can participate in our missions any time they want: whether they are in a squad or not.
....and if ya can't get any help from the Rooks, are ya going to switch countries again, like ya did to the Bishops? :p
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Fighter Town was a goof ... compared to the cheapjack crap I see committed by others on a regular basis it's trivial.
this is what i don't get. i think most would agree that fighter town was placed on the map to encourage air to air fighting. a place to get into a quick fight.
so just for you own amusement, as a type of joke, you guys took one of these fields from another country, so now they can not participate in this action. sounds kinda like griefing to me.
im not saying don't run missions, i fully understand that many enjoy the land grab part of the game. but to take a field in fighter town as a goof, really for your own amusement, (as im sure the other country didn't appreciate it) doesn't seem to convey a respect for the rest of the community.
could you be a bit more specific as to what the "cheapjack crap" is that you are comparing this to? not trying to get into "it" with you, just not sure i understand.
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wow kewl sign me up
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Fightertown, Tank Town, and the like seem, IMHO, to be set up for quick action rather than the longer mission times in the rest of the MA.
If these mini arenas are to be sacrosanct within the MA, then it should be *impossible* to take them over. The mountains should be 30K+ surrounding them. On water maps, there should be a great empty sea surrounding these islands to discourage people from running a mission there. Disable troops at them. Disable ordanance if need be. Place cities and factories next to the towns and airfields for constant resupply convoys. Make it impossible to take down the FH's for any length of time or capture them.
As is with any online game, if something can be done, it eventually will be done, despite what individuals care to think about it. It happens.
How many defenders do you see up a fast fighter and ram the attacker that has flown for 15 to 20 minutes to get over a field to attack it in the first place? It happens.
How many spies are there with dual accounts that monitor the channels and set spotters near active fields to report what's happening to other countries? Or turncoats that give up their countrymen in channel 200 to the enemy? It happens.
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Originally posted by pluck
this is what i don't get. i think most would agree that fighter town was placed on the map to encourage air to air fighting. a place to get into a quick fight.
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Fighter Town was down for, what, 10 or 15 minutes? We came over in unescorted bombers maybe 2000 feet above the field. Hardly either a huge disturbance in that area or something intended to be a sure thing ... hell, a couple of you got kills in C47's from what I heard. Too funny.
When I landed my bombers what did I find at our FT field? Panzers and Osties that must have started driving to our base before we even took off in the bombers. Somehow spawn-camping a FT field in heavy armor is OK, right? Tell me how that "encourages air to air fighting" please.
What FT was intended for was a place for quick action - no long transit times. So it takes you less time to find something to HO or vultch. What goes on in FT is not much different than anywhere else - all that doesn't happen is base capture. If you want FT to be about A2A combat and nothing else - then disable bombers and ord and GV's and add a pile of manned AAA guns which repair in 2 minutes. But I suspect if vultching FT fields became more hazardous duty there'd be a lot less people in there.
You want cheapjack crap? OK.- How about the jerks who hide fleets so that losing a port doesn't give the people who worked for it the CV they should get.
- How about the jerks who aren't bright enough to read a damn map and have to resort to planting spy accounts to know when enemy missions are lifting.
- How about the jerks who park Panzers in hangars when a field is about to go down.
- How about the "team players" who do nothing but pork-n-auger all night and waste the time of people who thought that the Tiffy at 12K would, like, fight instead of lawn-dart into the nearest outhouse.
- How about the cretins who fiddle with their networking to induce such convenient warps - I saw one last night who's handle was "babyseal" - yeah, that's not a give away.
And this garbage happens constantly. All night every night. In comparison a novelty bomber raid on FT is trivial in terms of impact on the ambiance of the arena.
I'm not about to tell others how they should play the game. But lets be straight up about what goes on in the MA and keep some sense of perspective.
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What's a 38?
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The Bish Base at FT went down and then was captured. So any bish who wanted to participate at FT could not.
That was screwed up.
You take down the FH's then get suprised when they up armor?:O
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~SOB~'s willing to participate in joint Ops BUT taking a field in FT or TT is a massive Tactical error. Taking a FT or TT base should be the very last field, if at all, to secure a reset.
As you guys would have observed. Since a Bish FT base was taken the Bishops were out on the loose in the main part of the arena. The Rook guys tuck 1 FT base and lost upwards of 30 (THATS THIRTY) bases to the Bish roll. They (Bish) had every player out and about whilst the Rooks and Knights had about 20 % of the player base duking it out in FT.
I'm pleased guys are happy with their base taking achievement but it was 110 % the wrong base to take. We are still trying to get those lost bases back today (Saturday 25th).
Ok eneough said ERROR learned and understud, I hope.:aok
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Originally posted by Elyeh
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You take down the FH's then get suprised when they up armor?:O
Read what I wrote ... the GV's were launched before we launched our bombers.
If the Bish went on a roll taking bases then the real mistake was not capturing the Knit FT base as well. Yes ... the error has been noted and we'll do better next time. Thanks for pointing it out.
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actually, both the bish and nit bases were held by rooks this AM. and it was fixed.
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Originally posted by killnu
actually, both the bish and nit bases were held by rooks this AM. and it was fixed.
Oh ... well I wasn't there for either capture ... I left after the one B17 run.
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Lynx,
When you make a judgement that someone else's GAMEPLAY was an "ERROR", you're assuming that everyone actually cares about how many bases fall or that their enjoyment comes from taking/holding bases and meeting the "win" criteria in the main arena...
If that's what floats your boat, that's great. Lots of others just want to have fun and if they have a lot of fun attacking one field, why does the loss of 30 "non-fun" fields make their good time an "ERROR" and the wrong thing to do?
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but lots of players do not share your priorities in the arena and giving people grief over having fun isn't going to change their minds or turn them into obedient soldiers for your war effort.
Just my $.02
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eagl, think you may of took that the wrong way. think he was tryin to say taking the bish FT base was the error. it upset the bish, who didnt have FT to fly in anymore, so they started to steamroll bases in rooks north. which is kinda against what the "win the war" types want. if that makes sense.
the buff guys took a base to cause bish grief, which lead to them losing many bases. think i just said same thing twice, but whatever.
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Originally posted by StracCop
Lazerr,
90% of the guys who are 'Loose Cannons' are in squads.
The 'Loose Cannons Alliance' isn't a squad. Like the name says, we're an alliance. We have no commanding officer. Guys organize missions and we join, its that simple.
We're just a bunch of players who like being part of big missions.
We enjoy working together as a group to achieve a common goal.
Any ROOK can participate in our missions any time they want: whether they are in a squad or not.
You boys the ones who done gone and ruined FT by taking all the bases?:rolleyes:
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right right and right....taking part in capturing ftrtwn is not only bad tactics but just annoys people...
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Fighter Town was down for, what, 10 or 15 minutes? We came over in unescorted bombers maybe 2000 feet above the field. Hardly either a huge disturbance in that area or something intended to be a sure thing ... hell, a couple of you got kills in C47's from what I heard. Too funny.
When I landed my bombers what did I find at our FT field? Panzers and Osties that must have started driving to our base before we even took off in the bombers. Somehow spawn-camping a FT field in heavy armor is OK, right? Tell me how that "encourages air to air fighting" please.
You want cheapjack crap? OK.- How about the jerks who hide fleets so that losing a port doesn't give the people who worked for it the CV they should get.
- How about the jerks who aren't bright enough to read a damn map and have to resort to planting spy accounts to know when enemy missions are lifting.
- How about the jerks who park Panzers in hangars when a field is about to go down.
- How about the "team players" who do nothing but pork-n-auger all night and waste the time of people who thought that the Tiffy at 12K would, like, fight instead of lawn-dart into the nearest outhouse.
- How about the cretins who fiddle with their networking to induce such convenient warps - I saw one last night who's handle was "babyseal" - yeah, that's not a give away.
And this garbage happens constantly. All night every night. In comparison a novelty bomber raid on FT is trivial in terms of impact on the ambiance of the arena.
[/B]
yes, i agree 100% that those things are cheap jack crap, and point taken.
i also never said, and will never say rolling tanks and osties into FT to camp was an acceptable practice. so i agree with you there too i think.
from my point of view, tanks do not encourage ata combat....nor does killing FH's and taking the fields. granted if you are flying bombers at 2k, and nobody stops you they probably deserve their FH's killed.
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I'm a rook too, and before LCA formed, aStone and I had a ...difference of opinion...about carpet bomber raids into fighter town. I tried to get just one idea across -- if you guys like capturing bases, great, go for it; BUT you dont have to pee in the cornflakes of TEAMMATES who like fightertown for its nonstop quick action. As I pointed to him a month ago, individual bombers are feed for the swarm, but a mission of them can flatten hangars so effectively that teh whole FT situation can be destroyed. And this time it happened, and bases were captured by less enlightened LCA'ers or some dorks -- because the hangars got porked.
There are dozens upon dozens of other bases you can capture, and other ways you can tee off the enemy. Taking (or porking or vulching) a FT base on the ONE map that really has fightertown is an enormously selfish thing to do. Its only purpose is to deliberately take away one groups way of having fun, simply because you can. Wanna do a FT bomber run? drop the ord or BHs, kill the fighters as they attack you. But, taking down the FHs is no different from the dweebs who capture every base in AvA and nuke the arena till an admin can reset it.
PLuck covered the "one crappy act doesnt justify another" angle, so I'll leave it at that with my hearty agreeement.
And before you say it, there ARE lots of other ways to ruin fun for others, and many normal game actions by one chesspiece limit options for others. The intrinsic difference should be obvious, though since capturing FT bases are not natural parts of gameplay unless you simply are out to mess with others. Killing a CV might be base defense to landgrabbers, and they have as much claim to their fun as the furballers -- but in FT the land grabbed doesnt lead anywhere, doesnt ahve any tactical "team victory" value.
The only reason to do it is to torque off people who dont go for landgrabbing.
I think the LCA concept is great, and it demonstrates the value of concentration of force. Thats the main reason it works. I have a real problem with FT hangar raids: when aStone insisted on that first FT bomber mission 2 rotations ago, he claimed that he wasnt trying to capture anything, just trying to get people mad. This rotation, it appears, the truth came out. Any LCA talk about letting everbody enjoy the way they like to play is shown to be poppycock, and the actions that speak louder than words clearly show that these guys only respect their style of play. They bombed what they wanted to, knowing the fighter guys' perspective, and regardless of what it did to others' chances on the one site on the one map that caters to the fighter lovers' style. So in spite of the kind invitation, I'll continue to steer clear of LCA raids in the future.
Seriously -- for furballers this is ONE MAP out of all the others that lets us have reliable fights in a predictable place. WHy cant you give us that chance just this one map?
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Good grief,
You people need to get out more often.
To quote Simaril:
There are dozens upon dozens of other bases you can capture, and other ways you can tee off the enemy.
Exactly, so why does it matter if anyone takes an "FT" base? As mentioned, there are dozens upon dozens of other bases.....
The excuse that you can't find fights is pretty lame....especially when there are 300+ people online at any given time.
You want a "fighters only" setup, then ask HT to make an "FT Arena". That way, there won't be any pissing and moaning about who killed what and the rest of us interested in winning the war (the basic concept for the MA, BTW) won't have to worry about how many of our team are over in FTville and can have an accurate roster count of who is actually doing what.
And what's this stuff about "true colors"??? Lol, now that's funny. I get a kick out of the guys that cry about "honor" and all that in a silly little internet game....get a clue peeps, this is a game, it ain't real life. HOing happens, spying happens, gaming the game happens (like the neat little trick of hiding your GV in the base of the shore batteries, etc, etc, ad nauseum) and then you want to bring in "honor"? Please. Get over yourselves. :rolleyes:
To qote Simaril again:
and the actions that speak louder than words clearly show that these guys only respect their style of play.
Oh yes, please tell us more about that. Tell us about the whiners that only want their little FT village to themselves and no one is to bomb it or capture it...please, go on, tell me about respect for certain styles of play.
:rofl
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well said simaril.:aok
the rest of you, take your "war" and shove it right up your :O
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Can I get a jack and Coke?
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Who's in the LCA?:huh
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Originally posted by eagl
Lynx,
When you make a judgement that someone else's GAMEPLAY was an "ERROR", you're assuming that everyone actually cares about how many bases fall or that their enjoyment comes from taking/holding bases and meeting the "win" criteria in the main arena...
If that's what floats your boat, that's great. Lots of others just want to have fun and if they have a lot of fun attacking one field, why does the loss of 30 "non-fun" fields make their good time an "ERROR" and the wrong thing to do?
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but lots of players do not share your priorities in the arena and giving people grief over having fun isn't going to change their minds or turn them into obedient soldiers for your war effort.
Just my $.02
No offence but this is one of the oddist replies I'v come across. Generally there is two schools of thought in Aces High. There's the Furballer and the Land Grabber. Now you have introduced a third the Cindy Lawper " just wanna have Fuhun". This argument you put up just don't wash. Firstly we are all here to have Fun. Thats a given otherwise the arena would be empty so I'll use the two sides of the standard AH coin.
FURBALLER There are hundreds of bases to take. Why take a FT base? It don't spawn anywhere. Taking a FT base won't win you the war and I ain't helping ya do that. You closed off our fun. Now we have only 1 enemy but they won't up because the newbs are vulching um. Now we gotta fly ages to find a fight. I ain't got time to mess about flying 15 min to a fight. .....etc etc.
Land Grabber Oh great capture but Tactically totally wrong. Now bish have another 20 to 40 Goon killing uppers to meet our advance. We are going to be way out numbered with the whole Bish air force loose in the MA while we have 20 % of our force tooling it about in FT still...etc.
............................. ............................. ............................. ............................. ....
If that's what floats your boat, that's great. Lots of others just want to have fun and if they have a lot of fun attacking one field, why does the loss of 30 "non-fun" fields make their good time an "ERROR" and the wrong thing to do?
Is this a polite way of saying "screw you all". Or is it a way of justifying a massive tactical ERROR. I can't work it out as this statments seems to have a foot in both camps. Tactical ERROR sumed up..... Taking 1 base to loose thirty plus = NOT GOOD. Taking 1 base to piss off a loud of guys in ALL sides = NOT GOOD. Or 10 + guys $15 pissed off 80+ guys $15 = NOT GOOD.
How taking that 1 FT base affected me. As a Land Grabber I spent Friday / Saturday Porking Bish bases and defending our bases. You guys were on my side and made my FUN not so fun. You forced upon your OWN side, team, squadies overwheming odds. Bish rolled to within 3 bases of our HQ. Taking that 1 tactically useless base was the best thing for Bish. It was on a par with field 41 2 terrains ago when tactically impared rooks split Bish / Knights from fighting each other.
Yer these guys had their fun. They drank from the well then pissed in it
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Fight...don't whine!
I'm reading this thread and I'm struck with one thought: you guys take this game waaaaaaay too seriously!
Any base is a legitimate target for capture, unless Hitech either makes it impossible to accomplish or publishes some rules to the contrary.
Another thing you should remember is that we want a good fight as much as anyone else. If there are alot of players in FT to fight...thats where we'll be...where the action is! Capturing an FT base should be MUCH harder than any other...and thats why we do it and why its fun...!
Someone posted earlier that we are capturing 'poorly defended bases.'
Oh really? How are we to respond to this? Are we wrong to attack and capture bases with many enemy combatants to overcome or should we stick to capturing undefended bases and be the subject of ridicule?Sorry, but we prefer a contest. Its more FUN that way. And like you said, FT is always busy & we can always find a good fight there so we come.
Here's an idea for you to consider the next time you find the LCA hurtling toward a base in fightertown...If you don't want to lose it..DEFEND IT!
And when you defend your FT base (or any other base) against air attacks you get a ...... wait for it... thats right, a FURBALL! a Dogfight, Air-to-Air Combat...just what you say you want! So what's the problem??
You either want a fight or you don't.
Of course, if you just want to cherry pick your kills from within a 20+ plane furball then that's something else entirely. But at least be honest if thats your aim. If fightertown is nothing more than your personal perk farm than say so.
But ... if you want a 'contest' you shouldn't complain...just get in the air and stop us! Dogfight with us...!!! Keep us from taking your base! We aren't that good anyway...you might even get lucky and stop us.
We invite you to try. :cool:
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"FURBALLER There are hundreds of bases to take. Why take a FT base? It don't spawn anywhere. Taking a FT base won't win you the war and I ain't helping ya do that. You closed off our fun. Now we have only 1 enemy but they won't up because the newbs are vulching um. Now we gotta fly ages to find a fight. I ain't got time to mess about flying 15 min to a fight. .....etc etc."
Taking an FT base counts to base totals. Taking the FT bases is good....two bases right there that are hard to get to, easily defended. Makes great tactical sense.
Fly ages to a fight? BWAHA, please. 15 minutes to a fight? Yeah, right. If you ain't got time, then why play?
"Tactical ERROR sumed up..... Taking 1 base to loose thirty plus = NOT GOOD"
Taking one base did not lose us thirty. We lost 30 bases because the bish had us outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 all next morning and day.
If the furballers just want to fly fighters, great, so why can't they come along with the land grabbers when they fly bombers to take fields and escort them, fight all the fighters that come up, etc? That way everyone gets a good deal. Better yet, the FT arena is a better idea because it seems the "FT Gang" just wants ultra convenient, perk building, vulcheramas within 30 seconds of lift off... :rolleyes:
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The day I can take off from a FT field and not see it being vultched or toolshedded it is the day I'll believe that FT is all about "air to air combat."
And how does using spies to ruin large missions not "deliberately take away one groups way of having fun?"
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Originally posted by AKWarp
"Tactical ERROR sumed up..... Taking 1 base to loose thirty plus = NOT GOOD"
Taking one base did not lose us thirty. We lost 30 bases because the bish had us outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 all next morning and day.
I am obviously not making myself clear. Lets see if I can explain it another way. In the game we have guys that like to just fly fighters and shoot the living daylights outta any red plane they see. We also have guys that like to use an eliment of Team work to capture bases with a final goal on winning the reset.
As pointed out in many many posts alot of furballers, not every single one but the vast majority, couln't give two hoots about a reset. They are only interested in the "combat".
With equal arguement in reply to many many posts the reseters, land grabbers, tool shedders as the furballers like to call us, main priority is winning.
So with that said if a Furballer has his number 1 FUN base taken off him I ask you this. What are his 2 remaining options? Throw his teddy out the pram and log off or go and try and find a fight? If I was paying furballer money I'd go find a fight.
Considering a furballer mentality to the effect of quick combat would your teams furballers stay in FT while the map gets rolled behind them. Even if a reset was iminant? You bet your bottom dollar he would and we have been reset on this map before now. I'm not talking "skuzzy" won reset I mean 100% the dogs bollocks, full blown, in ya face, taken a kick in reset.
With all sides being equal approx 20% of each teams players use FT but taking a FT base puts one teams 20% in the open arena. Considerably more bullets on the loose to deal with. Thats to say the evicted FT team suddenly gets an expected increase in numbers out side of Fighter Town.
When you roll on the next FUN base that wasn't considered FUN 20 min ago you are faced with a greater number of opponents.
You are True to say we were nearly out numbered 2 to 1 but it woulda been less if the Bish furballers were happilly tucked up in their FT world. Sure we were out numbered that happens everyday depending on time of day but why compound the matter? You really couldn't have chosen a worse time of the week to take a FT base. Friday bloody night. The beggining of the weekend and Bish weekend furballers log on and there's no FT base. (1)What they going to do? (2)Who they going to shoot? THINK about these 2 questions.
Be honest with the answeres then look at what you wrote We lost 30 bases because the bish had us outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 all next morning and day.
Gotta tell ya matey I wasn't impressed and I'm on your side. Not a Bishop or a knight. I as a Rook had to deal the effects of this FT ERROR while your still in bed. Don't like having to defend against a roll / hoard especially when other Rooks see it coming and do sod all about it. Don't like having to go 2 sectors into Bish lines to kill barracks. It's very difficult to get out alive. I am not a pork and augerr guy. No Sir, not impressed one bit. :furious
All I ask is you apply the field captures to where it is Tactically needed. Shooting your self in the foot and not understanding that you actually shot yourself in the foot is ...well ermm.
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Lynx,
Sorry to upset your categories, but there are a lot of players who don't fall into your pre-conceived notions of how the game *should* be played. Back when the squealing Pigs were a powerful and active squad (we started around the time CK switched over to WB), our single squad rule was to have fun. That policy kept us a happy squad, attracting as much talent as we could absorb, and our refusal to be tied to restrictive labels such as being a "historical" or "theme" squadron directly resulted in our success and gameplay enjoyment.
One night, we might go on an air to air rampage and sweep the skies clean. One month we might decide to win the WB 10v10 tourney. One month we might decide to form an alliance between friendly squads and utterly dominate the arena for a month (Barn Yard Animals Composite Air Wing). Regardless of how we played the game, we did whatever was fun. Of course people whined about how we weren't playing the game right, but back then the arenas were typically set up a little differently (fields were closer and radar was all-seeing) so it was easier to find pure air to air fights and "strat" players could avoid the furballs and busy areas if they desired.
Not much has changed, including the calls from some people saying that someone else or some other group is not playing correctly. It's a freaking sandbox, so there is no right or wrong way to play, period.
Sorry if that bursts your bubble, but the people you're whining about aren't playing by your rules. They're playing by the rules HTC set up when they designed the game and the arena, and too bad so sorry but their opinion on proper gameplay is just as valid as yours. Maybe even more valid, since they're not whining about how you wasted your evening in a wrong-headed, mistaken and pointless effort to capture fields instead of joining in with the people who were actually having fun.
Furballers vs. captureoids is a gross over-simplification. Most people in the arena just want to fight, hate wasting time looking for a fight, and they want to have fun regardless of if they're flying a bomber or fighter, on offense or defense, or in a horde or all alone. The game ought to encourage a variety of gameplay styles and it does (with my personal quibbles that the heavy AAA is too accurate and the fields are in general too far apart leading to long non-fighting periods of time that I despise in an arena), so go with the flow and quit trying to dictate some sort of gameplay morality.
Yes some behaviors in the game are terribly irritating, but they've ALWAYS been that way. There's just more people around to notice now. That massive field attack in "fighter town" that irritates you so much... That style of attack goes back to the early days of AW according to the people who were there, so HTC has had ample time to "do something" about it if it were unacceptable. But so far, there have been few game design features specifically intended to alter gameplay. Examples of those features are the shore battery guns, large amount of fleet ack, distances between fields, behavior of guns in bombers, bomber "formations", presence or lack of "otto" bomber gunners in various game versions, etc.
If FT field attacks were somehow detrimental to the game, you can bet HTC would do something about it. But in spite of over 2 years of requests to harden FT fields, they haven't...
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Originally posted by AKWarp
[B
Taking an FT base counts to base totals. Taking the FT bases is good....two bases right there that are hard to get to, easily defended. Makes great tactical sense.
Fly ages to a fight? BWAHA, please. 15 minutes to a fight? Yeah, right. If you ain't got time, then why play?
"Tactical ERROR sumed up..... Taking 1 base to loose thirty plus = NOT GOOD"
Taking one base did not lose us thirty. We lost 30 bases because the bish had us outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 all next morning and day.
If the furballers just want to fly fighters, great, so why can't they come along with the land grabbers when they fly bombers to take fields and escort them, fight all the fighters that come up, etc? That way everyone gets a good deal. Better yet, the FT arena is a better idea because it seems the "FT Gang" just wants ultra convenient, perk building, vulcheramas within 30 seconds of lift off... :rolleyes: [/B]
First let me say I think I've been to the FT portion of the map exactly twice since this map was introduced. So its not like Im a regular there. I do all sorts of things, from landgrabbing to GVing to strat. Im into any and all aspects of the game depending on my mood at that particular moment in time.
But still. I only very very very rarely spend time in FT.
Having, or not having a FT has no effect on me whatsoever.
That being said
The map in question was designed specifically so that the landgrabbers/strat/gv guys and the furballers could each have what they wanted.
The FT area was specifically placed where it was so the furballers could have their own area that didn't interfere with the landgrabbers and vice verse.
And anyone who has been here more then a few months knows and understands that. the FT area is supposed to be unofficially off limits in the land grab attempt.
basically anyone with a brain and has been here a while knows and understands this
Hordeing and capturing any base in the FT area is lame and classless at best.
the only REAL reason and motivation to take one of these bases is to be a jerk and to piss people off.
I only use that term because HT and Co would edit me heavily if I used the more accurate description.
There is no other reason. the reasoning of "because it counts for base totals easily defended etc etc" is lame at best not to mention an outright lie.
Strategically speaking, they are insignificant. Taking them makes little to no Spence whatsoever in "winning the war" or to keep from loosing the war for that matter.
Owning all 3 wont keep you from loosing, They would be difficult to mount any kind of meaningful counterattack from.
And offensively they serve no purpose.
They dont help you do anything.
Therefore there is 1 and only 1 reason to take the FT bases. and that's to be a (insert favorite derogatory expletive here)
While I agree the furballers could also have their furball by joining in in the landgrab both on offence and defense. the bottom line is for many THEY DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF THE LANDGRAB in any way, shape, or form and thus those that do not. shouldn't be forced into it just as the landgrabbers shouldn't be forced to only furball.
In the end if it were honestly stated. Taking the bases in the FT area isnt about the cause of winning the war. it isnt for the cause of having bases that are easily defended, it isnt about the greater good of the country or game. That entire line of argument is BS
Its about intentionally trying to be a jerk and to piss people off. That's really the long and short of it.
Any other claim is an outright lie
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Originally posted by AKWarp
...snip...
Oh yes, please tell us more about that. Tell us about the whiners that only want their little FT village to themselves and no one is to bomb it or capture it...please, go on, tell me about respect for certain styles of play.
:rofl
Warp,
At my AH developmental level, I'm still struggling to learn fighter techniques. I started doing mostly bomber work, and honestly one of the biggest rushes I've had was a GHOSTS squad op where (after lots of training work in TA) we had troopers in the air literally 90secs after we showed on dar bar.
But saturate the sky "iron rain" missions dont interest me now. Now I want to learn to fight better.
And despite your implication, there is simply NOTHING in AH, on any other map, that comes close to FT for fighter practice. If you've tried it, you'll see what I mean.
In FT, you can be in the middle of a fight literally 30 secs after taking off. Everybody starts with identical bases, at identical ranges, so alt monkeys cant dominate action like they do in most big fights that push into enemy territory. When I die, instead of 5-6 minutes of climbout to get back to the average fight, I'm right right back in it literally a minute later. Instead of 20% AH time spent actually fighting, in FT I get closer to 90%. It's that much more efficient.And, its supposed to be always there.
Bottom line is that I can get more practice -- and learn more -- ina week of Donut work that I can in a month of any other map. I look forward to FT rotations for this very reason -- I get more opportunity to practice the things I'm trying to get better at, in ways I cant for the rest of the time.
I'm despereately trying to get better at this stuff, and to be honest it [advance de-skuzzification edit] disturbs me greatly that the buff riders feel so righteously justified in wiping out the FT balance.
Why is this path one you're even interested in? Why cant you kill BHs or just capture a different base? [insert whiney voice] Why do you have to hurt me? [/whiney]
And how woudl you feel if someone routinely announced your missions, so you couldnt do the things you like? Its IS the exact equivalent --
so I'll quote: originally posted by drediock
In the end if it were honestly stated. Taking the bases in the FT area isnt about the cause of winning the war. it isnt for the cause of having bases that are easily defended, it is about the greater good of the country or game. That entire line of argument is BS
Its about intentionally trying to be a jerk and to piss people off. That's really the long and short of it.
Any other claim is an outright lie
[By the way, Warpy, I would ask you to consider your definition of a fight. A huge DAR bar swarming a lightly defended base, or one with only low alt disadvantaged enemy, isnt a fight at all. It's a culling, and I cant learn anything there. Equal advantge fights, with equal numbers and alts, are as rare as hen's teeth in the MA.]
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Originally posted by eagl
snip
They're playing by the rules HTC set up when they designed the game and the arena, and too bad so sorry but their opinion on proper gameplay is just as valid as yours. snip
Eagl, you're point is completely valid. I dont think most of the guys talking about this are thinking FT capture is morally wrong, or immoral, or an incorrect application of HTC rules.
Its more that doing it is rude and selfish.
Apply your logic to another situation, and you'll see your argument doesnt stand up.
WHAT IF SOMEONE WERE TO WATCH THE MISSION PLANNER, AND THE MAP, IN ORDER TO ANNOUNCE EVERY MISSION ON CHANNEL 200?
Its legal.
It is something that HTC has allowed in their system from the beginning.
It might give someone a demented pleasure, and if it helped tehm enjoy their $15 a month it would be a perfectly valid way to play.
After all, "It's a freaking sandbox, so there is no right or wrong way to play, period."
But announcing missions would ruin them, and it would be rude to interfere with mission guys' fun for no apparent reason. In the same way, taking out FT hangars rudely interferes with others simply for the joy of doing it.
So let me ask you, Eagl and the LCA fighter town destroyers -- is that the kind of AH you want? I sincerely hope not.
Lets just treat each other with respect, and try not to get in each others' way. That way we can ALL have fun playing.
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No wonder this map got pulled out of the rotation.
I assume the map designers wanted to have a place where people could dogfight and GVer's could play around the rings of V bases. (to keep everyone happy)
I really like this map as it is fast paced and you can find a fight easy.
All you guys that argue over what is right and wrong in Fighter town need to take a time out.
Taking a base in fighter town is disrespectful and as Lynx pointed out it resulted in rooks gettting slapped by Bish looking for revenge.
Big salute to the guys who rectified it.
The people who want troops disabled in fighter town have a valid point but that is weak in my point of view. The community just needs to rise above trying to annoy each other and hopefully there are more people who would want to re-take a base in FT rather than capture.
Bruv
~S~
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Originally posted by Simaril
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Apply your logic to another situation, and you'll see your argument doesnt stand up.
WHAT IF SOMEONE WERE TO WATCH THE MISSION PLANNER, AND THE MAP, IN ORDER TO ANNOUNCE EVERY MISSION ON CHANNEL 200?
...
The way certain sides play this game with spy accounts, they may as well. And the response to that in this thread has been "spying happens." OK ... so base captures in FT happen too.
I'm not trying to be obstinate. But you can't revile one and excuse the other because they both have the same basic intent.
You want a better FT? Disable GV spawn points, bombers, and ord - make radar and ack and hangars immune to gunfire. Then the only thing you can do is head out over the pond and dogfight. But just watch the number of people in there drop by about a third when they can't pad their scores with vultching.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The way certain sides play this game with spy accounts, they may as well. And the response to that in this thread has been "spying happens." OK ... so base captures in FT happen too.
I'm not trying to be obstinate. But you can't revile one and excuse the other because they both have the same basic intent.
I don't think anyones saying excuse the "other" bad behaviors, but the FT base taking can be easily solved by the landgrabbers taking it upon them selfes to just leave FT alone. Guys flying in FT take low fuel and jump off the base to to fight. Following a "landgrab" mission ussally ends up in a vulch fest where the only skill is to get in fast and not bounce your ride off the ground. The folk flying in FT are not going to defend a base as that is not what they are there for, they just want to jump in the fight. Totally different mentalities.
So let the FT folk have there fun, and those who want to run missions can have there fun taking all those other bases and vulchin.
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Originally posted by Slash27
Who's in the LCA?:huh
The LCA isn't a squad and therefore doesn't have members.
There are several non-squad affiliated players who wanted to formally link themselves with the LCA so we formed a 'squad' so those players could add the tag to their name. But the LCA tag is just the tip of the ice berg. There are many, many others who are in their own squads who are members of the Allaince.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
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Following a "landgrab" mission ussally ends up in a vulch fest where the only skill is to get in fast and not bounce your ride off the ground. The folk flying in FT are not going to defend a base as that is not what they are there for, they just want to jump in the fight. Totally different mentalities.
...
I'll wager they ain't as different than you think. Maybe not you and Simaril per se, but there's always an awful lot of porkin' and vultchin' and GV'in and bombin' going on in FT.
But I agree with you in principle. At some point the community needs to police itself. And that ain't happening. If you condone spying, hiding CV's, and all that when you hear it on the team channel, then you are equally responsible for attacks on FT (taking a page from The War on Terror, as it were).
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Eagl's reply
If FT field attacks were somehow detrimental to the game, you can bet HTC would do something about it. But in spite of over 2 years of requests to harden FT fields, they haven't...
You just don't follow the plot and I'm being polite. No one has said or at least I haven't said anything about "Detrimental to the game". I'm trying to point out, in vain it seems, that TACTICALLY it was an error to take that 1 base. I'v hinted at the act has pissed the furballers off but my own personal stand point as a TEAM player / land grabber is you shot your self in the foot and the rest of the / your team had to pick up the TAB. Thanks a bloody lot. Read that as 1 pissed off TEAM player.
DokGonZo reply
You want a better FT? Disable GV spawn points, bombers, and ord - make radar and ack and hangars immune to gunfire. Then the only thing you can do is head out over the pond and dogfight. But just watch the number of people in there drop by about a third when they can't pad their scores with vultching.
Again, not following the plot. A mature responsible attitude by all means HTC doesn't have to recode the arena to stop the irrisponsible if not selfish actions of the few. Again I point out the TACTICAL error NOT the bloody bases make up. Look guys those 3 poxy worthless TACTICALLY bases are surrounded by 20,000 feet mountains they have NO ground vehicle spawn points inside or to the outside of Fighter Town. They do have a few PT spawn points to the pond within FT...big deal.
Eagl DoKGonZo I have no idea who you guys are in the game. You could be a bunch of bish / knights taking the piss for all I know BUT as Senior posters on the boards I suspect you really know better. I put it to you that you guys are trying to save face after this reckless action of pissing off FRIEND and FOE alike.
As for Eagle saying "Sorry to upset your categories, but there are a lot of players who don't fall into your pre-conceived notions of how the game *should* be played.". This may be true but I respectfully point out that these guys you speak of are not the MANY.
B]Sorry if that bursts your bubble, but the people you're whining about aren't playing by your rules. They're playing by the rules HTC set up when they designed the game and the arena, and too bad so sorry but their opinion on proper gameplay is just as valid as yours. Maybe even more valid, since they're not whining about how you wasted your evening in a wrong-headed, mistaken and pointless effort to capture fields instead of joining in with the people who were actually having fun.[/B]
Umm you trying to tell me I'm not having fun or If I wanted fun I should muck in with you lot capturing Fighting Town to the detriment of what I consider team play, let alone Tactics? Come on chap you know you ballsed up. Pissed Friend and Foe off let alone Tactically shot yourself in the foot. Just look at the negative replies you guys are taking right here in this forum. I respectfully request you to consider your future actions.........is all.
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where are these gv spawns in FT? havent seen one yet, other than pt boats?:huh
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Originally posted by LYNX
DokGonZo reply
You want a better FT? Disable GV spawn points, bombers, and ord - make radar and ack and hangars immune to gunfire. Then the only thing you can do is head out over the pond and dogfight. But just watch the number of people in there drop by about a third when they can't pad their scores with vultching.
Again, not following the plot. A mature responsible attitude by all means HTC doesn't have to recode the arena to stop the irrisponsible if not selfish actions of the few. Again I point out the TACTICAL error NOT the bloody bases make up. Look guys those 3 poxy worthless TACTICALLY bases are surrounded by 20,000 feet mountains they have NO ground vehicle spawn points inside or to the outside of Fighter Town. They do have a few PT spawn points to the pond within FT...big deal.
Eagl DoKGonZo I have no idea who you guys are in the game. You could be a bunch of bish / knights taking the piss for all I know BUT as Senior posters on the boards I suspect you really know better. I put it to you that you guys are trying to save face after this reckless action of pissing off FRIEND and FOE alike.
Who am I? I am the Lizard King.
I ain't trying to save face for squat. Everything is cause and effect, the attack on FT was a response to something else. You do the math. I don't even know if it was the LCA who captured the base(s) ... all we'd planned for was a couple of bomber strikes to set up a brief vultch-fest (and don't even try to tell me that vultching doesn't happen constantly in FT). I wasn't even there when the bases were captured, so there's nothing for me to defend whatsoever.
"Mature responsible attitude?" I only wish it existed more. If it did, maybe the events which led to capturing FT wouldn't have happened.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Who am I? I am the Lizard King.
I ain't trying to save face for squat. Everything is cause and effect, the attack on FT was a response to something else. You do the math. I don't even know if it was the LCA who captured the base(s) ... all we'd planned for was a couple of bomber strikes to set up a brief vultch-fest (and don't even try to tell me that vultching doesn't happen constantly in FT). I wasn't even there when the bases were captured, so there's nothing for me to defend whatsoever.
"Mature responsible attitude?" I only wish it existed more. If it did, maybe the events which led to capturing FT wouldn't have happened.
With your condoning the capture of FT bases I thought you had a hand in it. Please accept my appols for my assumptions. However, two wrongs don't make a right with reference to "cause and effect".
Yes, vulching does happen in FT as it does on every base in every arena. It's a given fact which no one would need to deny. Obviusly what happened was some TACTICALLY IMPAIRED guys, newbies or bloody minded arses, took advantage of the Hanger banging situation. Hopefully they have learned the ERROR of shooting one's self in the foot.
Man! I tell ya I'v seen some dumb arse stuff in AH over the years and this ( taking a FT base) rates as one of the highest. Shooting ya self in the foot not realising who shot ya foot, capped with pissing off not only the bad guys but the good guys to. :rolleyes:
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I'd like to suggest to whoever designed the map that a couple minor changes be made.
Close to the town and base place a city and a factory
Place the city close to the town and move the town closer to the feilds
A factory would double the amount of puffy ack up and thus make it more inctence to try to dela with
the Cities have that lazer ack like the feilds do. only it seems to be a bit more accurate.
Have the feilds also within range of the city ack.
In short. Set things up that all ack overlap one another.
So no matter where you try to attack you have to deal with the ak from the feild, the town, the factory and the city And to take the town not only would you have to deal with the town puffy ack. But also the laer ack from both the feild and the city.
Same thing with feild vulching
Try vulching the feild and you not only have to deal with the feild lazer ack, but also the City lazer ack.
Maybe even add a train or two into the mix
While it wouldnt be impossible to take of supress a feild this way. it would certainly make it harder and more interesting lol
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Lynx,
You continue to proclaim that taking an FT field is a tactical error...
At worst, it's a strategic error, which means anyone not concerned with arena strategy couldn't care less. However from a gameplay perspective for a whole lot of players who are not intent on "winning the war", it's not an error of any sort. It's just something to do.
But a tactical error... A tactical error is launching a B-17 with no bombs. Or upping a goon when the ack is still up. Or attacking a field with too many bombers and not enough fighters, or too many fighters and not enough bombers. Or attacking a field but not protecting your goon so it gets shot down. Those are tactical errors and since the people you're mad at achieved their objectives of flattening, vulching, then capturing the field, it's pretty obvious that they did not in fact make a tactical error.
Field capture lies in the strategic realm, and decisions to attack one field or another from an arena dominance or "winning the war" point of view are purely strategic decisions, not tactical ones.
Get your terminology straight before you start trying to lecture everyone on how to play :)
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Originally posted by LYNX
With your condoning the capture of FT bases I thought you had a hand in it. Please accept my appols for my assumptions. However, two wrongs don't make a right with reference to "cause and effect".
...
Man! I tell ya I'v seen some dumb arse stuff in AH over the years and this ( taking a FT base) rates as one of the highest. Shooting ya self in the foot not realising who shot ya foot, capped with pissing off not only the bad guys but the good guys to. :rolleyes:
If that's the dumbest thing you've seen you ain't been here that long.
Two wrongs may not make a right, but calling foul on the second guy to throw a punch and letting the first one walk away ain't right either. I can pretty much assure you that none of the LCA showed up that night with even the notion of bombing the snot out of FT. But at some point players who do try to maintain a mature, reasonable disposition get sick of cheaters ruining their nite and just say "F It." And then nothing short of kicking the neighbor's cat through a hedge will suffice.
-DoK
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A big thank you goes out to all you Knights who saved your FT base for us just so we could cap it and win the war. Thank you!
Now I understand what Fightertown is for....helping ROOKs win! :aok
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Originally posted by StracCop
A big thank you goes out to all you Knights who saved your FT base for us just so we could cap it and win the war. Thank you!
Now I understand what Fightertown is for....helping ROOKs win! :aok
What did you win?
Numbers were way off with pushing 75+ more Rooks.. Not a real impressive feat. Having flown Rooks for a while now, it was a bit embarrassing to see. It was enough to make me go Knights. Can't stand the idea of being a part of a land grabbing race for the reset horde.
Win the war. Amazing...and sad.
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Originally posted by StracCop
A big thank you goes out to all you Knights who saved your FT base for us just so we could cap it and win the war. Thank you!
Now I understand what Fightertown is for....helping ROOKs win! :aok
As of about an hour ago the lamer Rook Horde still hadnt won. In spite of having 130 players more then the Knits at one point during the night.
At one point Rooks had over 260. Neither Bish nor knit numbers where anywhere near that number and still took yas 4 hours to get knits from 14 bases to 10.
LMAO some skill
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Win the war. Amazing...and sad.
You left out the most important word guys...I wonder why some people never figure this out...
Its not skill..
Its not sad..
and its not win..
the word is FUN!
It was fun the horde the last few bases. And, well, thats why I plunk down my cash every month to play this game...for the fun. May not be fun for you, but it was a hoot for me!
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"It was enough to make me go Knights"
Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out....
"I am obviously not making myself clear"
No, I understood exactly what you attempted to say...and I disagree, simple enough?
"You are True to say we were nearly out numbered 2 to 1 but it woulda been less if the Bish furballers were happilly tucked up in their FT world"
Perhaps a little less, but we would have still been outnumbered a fair bit
"I as a Rook had to deal the effects of this FT ERROR while your still in bed"
I'm retired, I play morning, day or night whatever I feel. I've been on at all hours of the day, so I'm well aware of when teams numbers are usually higher or lower...and you aren't the only one out there saving the Rook world single handedly...:rolleyes:
"All I ask is you apply the field captures to where it is Tactically needed. Shooting your self in the foot and not understanding that you actually shot yourself in the foot is ...well ermm"
Then maybe you should engage the safety on yer gun....
"the reasoning of "because it counts for base totals easily defended etc etc" is lame at best not to mention an outright lie."
No more so than the BS claim of "can't find fights without FT" "Have to fly 15 or 20 mins to get a fight" blah blah blah
"Strategically speaking, they are insignificant. Taking them makes little to no Spence [sic] whatsoever in "winning the war" or to keep from loosing [sic] the war for that matter"
Odd, we just won the damn war by taking an FT base....
"In the end if it were honestly stated. Taking the bases in the FT area isnt about the cause of winning the war. it isnt for the cause of having bases that are easily defended, it isnt about the greater good of the country or game. That entire line of argument is BS"
No different than the BS the furballers cry about (see above)
"And despite your implication, there is simply NOTHING in AH, on any other map, that comes close to FT for fighter practice. If you've tried it, you'll see what I mean"
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. It's a score padding vulchfest. Numbers are rarely if ever even (as the furballers like to try and claim for "learning to fight purposes"). Sorry, that dog don't hunt.
"Bottom line is that I can get more practice -- and learn more -- ina week of Donut work that I can in a month of any other map. I look forward to FT rotations for this very reason -- I get more opportunity to practice the things I'm trying to get better at, in ways I cant for the rest of the time"
That feature is already built into the game...it's called the TA. It even has various field configurations for you to fight in different settings, etc. Worst case scenario, the "FT" fields should have troops, buff, etc disabled, or have all buildings non destructable. Then no one can piss in your wheaties.
"Why is this path one you're even interested in? Why cant you kill BHs or just capture a different base? [insert whiney voice] Why do you have to hurt me? [/whiney]"
Why is it even an issue? It's the MA, the primary goal for the game is to take the bases, if it weren't the war couldn't be won, it wouldn't be the "game".
"And how woudl you feel if someone routinely announced your missions, so you couldnt do the things you like? Its IS the exact equivalent -- "
It happens all the time...they're called spies. People routinely "game the game" by using exploits and bugs. Been happening since day one.
"As of about an hour ago the lamer Rook Horde still hadnt won. In spite of having 130 players more then the Knits at one point during the night.
At one point Rooks had over 260. Neither Bish nor knit numbers where anywhere near that number and still took yas 4 hours to get knits from 14 bases to 10"
Lessee...we took the FT base and won the war a few minutes ago....apparently taking one the other night didn't lose it for us either. Since when were we put under a timer as to how fast it had to be done?
:rolleyes:
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Well tonite we finished the war by talking the knights FT...was it tacticaly good move??.i would say yes it is!!!!!
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Originally posted by AKWarp
[B [/B]
Odd, we just won the damn war by taking an FT base....
Ok I'll give you that. At the end it makes sense to end the war take FT base when you cant figure out how, or are too inept to do it any other way.
So for your benefit I will rephrase my entire statement on the matter.
but the bulk of what I said still stands as true
Until that point is reached where the end of the "war" is so near that the capture of one or two bases will bring it to an inevitable conclusion
Until that point,Strategically speaking, they are insignificant. Taking them makes little to no Spence [sic] whatsoever in "winning the war" or to keep from loosing [sic] the war for that matter
In the end if it were honestly stated. Taking the bases in the FT area while there are a significant amount of other bases left isnt about the cause of winning the war. it isnt for the cause of having bases that are easily defended, it isnt about the greater good of the country or game. That entire line of argument is BS
Until it reaches the point where there are only a few bases left too be taken and the "war" is a forgone conclusion and/ or you cant figure out a way to do it any other way.
Its about intentionally trying to be a jerk and to piss people off. That's really the long and short of it.
Any other claim is an outright lie
There, Happy now?
"No more so than the BS claim of "can't find fights without FT" "Have to fly 15 or 20 mins to get a fight" blah blah blah"
No different than the BS the furballers cry about (see above)
See now you might find this hard to believe but I've always agreed that, That statement is also BS. Even on Pizza I've felt that claim is BS.
But What your not getting is the furballers do not want to take part of, or be a part of the landgrab in any way, shape, or form.
That is the entire reason why this particular map was designed the way is was with a FT so that the people who dont want to be a part of the landgrab can do so without effecting the landgrab and the landgrabbers can take all the bases they want and "win the war" without having to interfere with the furballers.
It was made that way so everyone could play the game the way they wanted to play it. All that's needed for it to work is for the players to have a little respect for other people.
You dont NEED to take a FT base to win the war.
The only reason to take a FT base is to be a jerk, piss people off, show a total lack of respect for other players who do not want to be forced into playing the way you want to play. Or because you cant figure out a way to do it any other way.
And I'll say it again. To claim it is for any other reason it an outright lie
Lessee...we took the FT base and won the war a few minutes ago....apparently taking one the other night didn't lose it for us either. Since when were we put under a timer as to how fast it had to be done?
See above.
Your not under a timer. But time is a very good indicater as to how well a horde is performing.
Time is important because you only have so long before people start logging off
Last night was the exeption to the norm as typically if a map isnt reset by 1:00 AM ETS it doesn't get reset until well into daylight hours at the earliest. If it gets reset.
I wasn't there but my guess is FT was captured because it was the easiest way to finish the map off before time ran out.
In closing. If you go through my posts over the years You will see a few things
I've always maintained ENY wasn't going to work.
And with all due respect to HTC.
It doesnt.
At least not the way it needs to.
And I didnt think any side should have limitations as for plane choice in non perked rides.
I typically want and try to argue for whats fair for everyone, and not just one side or the other.
More times then not I am on the side of the landgrabbers when it comes to the subject of base captures.
This map is the exeption to that
ANY other map and I would agree they are all fair game.
but this map was designed (not by me) to be as fair as possible to everyone.
Any other map I would be on the side of the landgrabbers in this arguement.
Now as I've mentioned in another post. I dont spend a lot of time in Ft.
In fact you could probably count on 1 hand the amount of times I've even launched a plane from FT and have some fingers left over
So really FT doesnt effect me personally one way or the other.
But on this map. The landgrabbers that insist on taking FT fields for ANY reason are wrong. Dead wrong.
Personally I think HTC should map the FT bases uncaptureable and unporkable
Actually if it were up to me each side would have to uncaptureable and unporkable bases. One at a FT location. and the other would be the air base closest base to HQ. And neither should count towards the basecount in fields needed to win/loose the war. So in effect all you would have to do is get a country down to 5 bases left, the two unporkable/capturable ones and three regular (Captureable) bases.
I cant understand why HTC doesn't do that ( at least in FT) as I doubt many, if any would object to it and it would solve a whole bunch of arguments in one fell swoop with the least amount of whines one way or the other about it
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Originally posted by JUDE69
Well tonite we finished the war by talking the knights FT...was it tacticaly good move??.i would say yes it is!!!!!
See my above post.
Tactically good perhaps to end the war fast before you lost too many numbers.
Still pretty lame though
and you WON the WAR!!
Goodie goodie.
So tell us.
what exactly did you win?
A big trophy?
A plaque with your name on it?
A cutsie blue ribbon?
A cookie?
What? what did you win?
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DokGonzo,
I'd just like to point out that any fellow who hides a CV at the top of a map, or resorts to "spying" is probably one of the valiant
"Win the Warrior[e]s", and not one of the guys who just wants a FT around for a quick fight.
The only time I've ever seen a FT-type guy "spy" was the time Zazen took control of an enemy cv because the enemy was taking advantage of an unfair loophole/bug.
And, to other people:
It is true that you can find a fight without FT. However, FT is still the quickest source to action on some maps and is a very convenient place to meet up with like-minded people. Without it, it's a crapshoot as to where you can run into all the same people in one place. It's just easier, ok?
I don't really see what the big deal is with leaving FT alone at least until your country's one or two bases away from reset. At that time, go ahead and blow it out of the water.
What do we have to do to have fun of our own away from this constant landgrabbing? Do we really have to organize ourselves to take cannons and bombs and knock out horder's fun by taking out troops and ordinance on the entire map?
Can't we just avoid that and chill in our own little place while the rest of you blow up each others' hangars?
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Couldn't help but notice that the bulk of the pilots who attacked and seized the Knight base in Fightertown (A21) were from the Loose Cannons Alliance.
Congratulations LCA!
Well done. :D:aok
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Originally posted by 96Delta
Couldn't help but notice that the bulk of the pilots who attacked and seized the Knight base in Fightertown (A21) were from the Loose Cannons Alliance.
Congratulations LCA!
Well done. :D:aok
Your little LCA symbol/avatar does great justice to your joy of this :D
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Originally posted by 96Delta
Couldn't help but notice that the bulk of the pilots who attacked and seized the Knight base in Fightertown (A21) were from the Loose Cannons Alliance.
Congratulations LCA!
Well done. :D:aok
I note the emphasis the race to the reset folks are putting on capturing FT bases in these posts. Anything to justify it I guess.
I'll assume you are smart enough to recognize why FT was put in the map so the 'we have to capture it to win the war' BS is exactly that.
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Originally posted by StracCop
You left out the most important word guys...I wonder why some people never figure this out...
Its not skill..
Its not sad..
and its not win..
the word is FUN!
It was fun the horde the last few bases. And, well, thats why I plunk down my cash every month to play this game...for the fun. May not be fun for you, but it was a hoot for me!
You made no mention of fun in your post. Your post was about 'winning the war".
You are correct however, it is about fun. And there is nothing fun about being outnumbered like that and either having to fly forever just to get up from a field with about being vulched or having to attempt to up from capped bases.
This is a game not a war. No one is dying, there is no risk. A game should be fun for everyone playing it.
When I was a kid my buddies and I played lots of sports. I don't ever recall setting up teams for a game that involved playing 10 on 5 in football or 5 on 2 in basketball. Had we done that, there is no question the team with 10 guys would always beat the team with 5. It might be 'fun' for a little bit, but the challenge would be gone in a hurry as there is no way the team with 5 is going to be able to cover all the guys on the team with 10. So you set the teams as even as you could so it would be a challenge and fun for all.
This is why I went Knights last night after being Rooks for so long. It just wasn't fair with the numbers the way they were and it wouldn't have been fun to me to be part of such a numbers differrence.
And I always remember that if you went to shoot hoops with your buddies and got to the court you respected any other guys playing on the same court. If they were playing a pick up game at one end, and you just wanted to shoot hoops at the other, you didn't demand they get off the court or force yourself into their fun, you used the other part of the court to do your thing.
Sometimes you'd try and organize a game that could include everyone, but if they didn't want to play, you didn't deliberately interfere with what they were doing, you just kept to your part of the court.
Seems to me that's the mentality behind the FT part of the map. The guys who just want to up and turn and burn can do so without interfering with the guys who want to land grab, strat, or whatever. Neither 'team' has to interfere with the other. But instead we've got a group of people who seem intent on forcing folks to play the game they are playing, their way, with little thought to whether it would be 'fun' for those folks.
Bottom line is you are right it's all about 'having fun'. But you need to include everyone in the fun, beyond just the folks who think playing the game your way is the only way to have fun.
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Originally posted by Vudak
DokGonzo,
I'd just like to point out that any fellow who hides a CV at the top of a map, or resorts to "spying" is probably one of the valiant
"Win the Warrior[e]s", and not one of the guys who just wants a FT around for a quick fight.
The only time I've ever seen a FT-type guy "spy" was the time Zazen took control of an enemy cv because the enemy was taking advantage of an unfair loophole/bug.
...
I disagree. If you're right what possible reason is there for bombing barracks, ord, radar, town, and hangars in FT? And all sides do it all the time - when I get phone ack I sit in the field guns there sometimes and just pop the lawndarts as the roll in. Those assets mean next to nothing out over the pond.
One thing that's real key in these kinds of discussions is to step outside your own individual intent and really look at what other people are doing around you. For me personally, if FT provided any kind of respite from the torrential idiocy experienced elsewhere in the MA I'd play there too, bad frame rate and all. But it doesn't.
We all know that the end-of-war frenzy is probably the least effective time for a side. No one is bringing or escorting goons because they want to pad their scores with vultch kills. Likewise no one is killing the town or CAP'ing the launch base. And then all the fair weather fliers are milling about and don't know anyone or what they should be doing. And don't forget all those great "team players" sitting in the tower, wanking it to the Sheep Channel on cable, waiting for the reset ... they pad the odds too. So all it takes is a couple of 262's or 163's to delay The Horde. At these times the FT base is often the quickest way to reset the map. And, frankly, when the map is one base away from a reset its no fun for either side - better to end the damn thing already.
I agree with Dred that if you want FT to be just about furballing, then just make all ground assets there immune to damage (or something to that effect). Then there's no reason to bomb or pork and vultching gets more dangerous. Hell, remove any plane with an ENY below 20 while you're at it so people actually have to fly instead of HO ... hehe.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I agree with Dred that if you want FT to be just about furballing, then just make all ground assets there immune to damage (or something to that effect). Then there's no reason to bomb or pork and vultching gets more dangerous. Hell, remove any plane with an ENY below 20 while you're at it so people actually have to fly instead of HO ... hehe.
It's not for lack of asking for this because that would solve the problem completely. HTC apparently have reasons for not doing so.
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Originally posted by StracCop
The LCA isn't a squad and therefore doesn't have members.
There are several non-squad affiliated players who wanted to formally link themselves with the LCA so we formed a 'squad' so those players could add the tag to their name. But the LCA tag is just the tip of the ice berg. There are many, many others who are in their own squads who are members of the Allaince.
Furst the main Arena...THEN...the Wurld!! muhahahahahah!
I'd would note..that this same map, where the taking of FT cost the Rooks some 30-odd bases in revenge takings, and been the subject of this topic for some time now.... was won by the Rooks Sunday night....late....... when the Rooks captured FT.....with "some help" from the LCA....
Oh...the irony.....
You Knits put up a heck of a fight near the end there in the south.
Forced us to take your FT for the win just to change that frikin' map finally.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
As of about an hour ago the lamer Rook Horde still hadnt won. In spite of having 130 players more then the Knits at one point during the night.
At one point Rooks had over 260. Neither Bish nor knit numbers where anywhere near that number and still took yas 4 hours to get knits from 14 bases to 10.
LMAO some skill
"The lamer Rook Horde" was hamstrung with a ENY over 24..... would have been over much quicker if many of your loyal Knit and Bish players hadn't come over to our side at the end of the map again.
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If High Tech ACCIDENTALLY created 3 large bases - evenly spaced with a central meeting place for combat completely free of Ak, GV’s and the like……..
AND if he ACCIDENTALLY surrounded it by 20k mountains for protection from the outside war, and then surrounded that with VH bases and no airfields………
And if he ACCIDENTALLY created this fighter town in response to requests for quick furball action within a MA arena on at least one map only……..
THEN and ONLY then would base taking, vulching etc be totally acceptable.
HOWEVER, it is obvious this is not the case and everyone knows it. You can spin it, blame the other team for they’re dum mistakes, and cry revenge all you like, but the fact is this part of this map is for furballers and folks who want decent air combat free of responsibility of attacking or defending bases as part of the larger war. Why argue.
It is obvious why FT is there, don’t kid yourself that taking bases is legitimate; it’s weak and does you no favors.
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Originally posted by Spiffing
.... but the fact is this part of this map is for furballers and folks who want decent air combat free of responsibility of attacking or defending bases ...
Then why are people blowing up outhouses in FT? If anything ruins FT for me as far as a place to practice and hone ACM it's having to deal with the same pork, vultch, and HO dweebs as every place else.
I'm not arguing what FT *should* be there for, but you guys describe it as one step below Galland's Valhalla and anyone who visits it can see it's maybe one step above the little car at the circus that the 20 clowns pile out of.
I'm not trying to justify capturing FT except as the end game to reset the map (which usually stabilizes the odds). But look at it this way, you FT guys seem to condone spying because you don't care about missions; well the folks who are into the war see your FT bases as just another target of opportunity.
I personally would have no problem telling Rooks who say "lets capture FT" to not do it (again, except if it'll reset the map and end the boredom) if I had the slightest hope that the people on the other sides would similarly tell people not to spy, hide CV's, etc. etc. Just because you're in FT doesn't mean you can't call someone on your country out as a scumwaffle when he announces that he just hid a CV or whatever.
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Dok, I'm not sure I'm understanding your point there. At least in relation to the two areas I talked about.
It's just I've yet to see (except in the previously mentioned incident) any BK's, 475th, AoM, JG2 (Lazerus' group), [insert squad known for a2a fighting here] go off and hide the CV in a corner (I HATE when people do that, my side or other) or "spy" to "win" the war.
Now vulching... Different story :D But I haven't seen the above two things happen from the sort of people who really enjoy FT as a place for a quick fight.
Not trying to be rude or anything. I just didn't understand what your post had to do with my thought? Could you clarify please?
Thanks,
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
But look at it this way, you FT guys seem to condone spying
On another point - please show me the evidence for this one. I haven't seen it in my travels.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Then why are people blowing up outhouses in FT? If anything ruins FT for me as far as a place to practice and hone ACM it's having to deal with the same pork, vultch, and HO dweebs as every place else.
I'm not arguing what FT *should* be there for, but you guys describe it as one step below Galland's Valhalla and anyone who visits it can see it's maybe one step above the little car at the circus that the 20 clowns pile out of.
I'm not trying to justify capturing FT except as the end game to reset the map (which usually stabilizes the odds). But look at it this way, you FT guys seem to condone spying because you don't care about missions; well the folks who are into the war see your FT bases as just another target of opportunity.
I personally would have no problem telling Rooks who say "lets capture FT" to not do it (again, except if it'll reset the map and end the boredom) if I had the slightest hope that the people on the other sides would similarly tell people not to spy, hide CV's, etc. etc. Just because you're in FT doesn't mean you can't call someone on your country out as a scumwaffle when he announces that he just hid a CV or whatever.
What this sounds like is the old "if he'll be good then I'll be good" notion. Still starts with each of us. If the message is I'll stop after the other guy stops, then it won't ever stop.
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you FT guys seem to condone spying because you don't care about missions
Don't paint us all with the broad brush please.
people on the other sides would similarly tell people not to spy, hide CV's, etc. etc.
How upset would you be if I privated you telling you where they were hiding a CV ? ... would that be considered spying ? ... did we possibly paint ourself into a corner ?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
people on the other sides would similarly tell people not to spy, hide CV's, etc. etc.
How upset would you be if I privated you telling you where they were hiding a CV ? ... would that be considered spying ? ... did we possibly paint ourself into a corner ? [/B]
No ... I wouldn't want you to PM the other side, obviously.
But when someone announces on the team channel that they just hid the CV or hid a Panzer in a hanger a little peer pressure might prevent them from doing it again.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
You Knits put up a heck of a fight near the end there in the south.
Forced us to take your FT for the win just to change that frikin' map finally.
Shows that your not that good..........:t
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
But when someone announces on the team channel that they just hid the CV or hid a Panzer in a hanger a little peer pressure might prevent them from doing it again
Trust, they have everything short of **** flung at their heads. At least the one's who hide the CVs. Peer pressure doesn't do anything in this game.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
So tell us.
what exactly did you win?
A big trophy?
A plaque with your name on it?
A cutsie blue ribbon?
A cookie?
What? what did you win?
Laughter!
Its good to be the king. :D
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Originally posted by tedrbr
"The lamer Rook Horde" was hamstrung with a ENY over 24..... would have been over much quicker if many of your loyal Knit and Bish players hadn't come over to our side at the end of the map again.
Excellent point!
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Originally posted by 96Delta
Laughter!
Its good to be the king. :D
Nah, there's only one king in this game, well, one per month anyway, scroll down a few forums, get out of your jackal pack and try it out :D
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Originally posted by Vudak
Trust, they have everything short of **** flung at their heads. At least the one's who hide the CVs. Peer pressure doesn't do anything in this game.
Oh well ... it was worth a shot ... guess it's time for the cattle prods.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
No ... I wouldn't want you to PM the other side, obviously.
But when someone announces on the team channel that they just hid the CV or hid a Panzer in a hanger a little peer pressure might prevent them from doing it again.
Been there ... done that ... all you get is a big
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Will the whining ever cease......guys..
THIS IS JUST A GAME !
Certainly not worth getting your panties
in a bunch over. Relax, breathe and have fun.
No matter what the LCA does, I'm sure there
will be plenty of dogfighting to go around.
Its all good my AH brothers. Enjoy it. :aok
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lynx.......
is absolutely correct in many of the statements he has made in this
thread.......(despite what egle may think)
rooks please take bish FT each and everytime this map comes up......
whats is funny about this is bish did this to rooks (took rook FT)
and the result was...
rooks upped with amazing zest and promptly kicked our sorry
bish *** off the map.....within hours.
i myself was so pizzed at the stupid bish who took rook FT
that i joined the knits for a few days.
so yes rooks please continue to take bish FT it helps bish take
bases.
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Originally posted by soupcan
.......(despite what egle may think)
sorry should have said eagl not egle
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Why cant we just agree to leave FT and TT alone till they HAVE to be taken for a map reset?
I can't see why this is so hard to do. You dont have to be a brain surgeon to see those bases are there for a specfic reason... (no where else on the maps are the bases like this)
We've all played enough online games and sims to notice things like this so quit arguing the point....... We all know why FT and TT are there, so stop pretending you dont
DREDIOCK said it best in his post.......
Enough said
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Originally posted by tedrbr
"The lamer Rook Horde" was hamstrung with a ENY over 24..... would have been over much quicker if many of your loyal Knit and Bish players hadn't come over to our side at the end of the map again.
If I've said it once. Ive said it 100 times since ENY was just an idea being talked about and not yet implemented.
"A Horde is a horde is a horde"
dosnt matter if its 260 P51's or 260 P40's
Its Still a horde.
Eventually it reaches a point where the type of plane just doesnt matter because there are simply too many of them
Example. some years ago When my son was little I was a coach on his mitey mite football team.
Once during drills as a goof I told about 15 kids when the whistle blew to go and tackle coach dave.
Well the whistle blew and they charged the coach who suspected something was up by the smirk on my face.
Well he did try to resist but he went down and was pinned down anyway.
and stayed pinned down until I called the kids off
Coach Dave was about 6'5 and weighed close to 300 lbs.
The average age of the 15 kids was 8
Eventually it reaches the point where the plane doesnt matter.
Rooks outnumbering Knits by 110 players and also having to fend off bish attacks at the same time.
When it gets to that point it is well beyond the type of plane making a difference.
If you had problems finishing us off. If anything it was through lack of cohesion on your part then they types of planes you were flying.
And if you feel your hamstrung by ENY. You probably arent that good anyway.
I only rarely fly planes effected by Eny. so I presonally couldnt care less if we are effected by it. And thus I dont feel hamstrung when we are effected by it.
And Im not even a great pilot
And while they didnt make up the vast majority
A whole bunch of you musta been landing and hotpadding because I saw an awful lot of Rook Spit 16's, La's and even a couple 163s
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Originally posted by 96Delta
Laughter!
Its good to be the king. :D
heh, read the quote in my tagline
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Originally posted by 96Delta
Excellent point!
Naaa if you NEED or feel hamstrung by Eny causing you to take high Eny planes. to get the job done with those kinds numbers, You aint that good to begin with
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I suck at this game Dred.
I only play it cause its fun.
Point is, I don't care if I never land a kill...so long as I have a good time playing.
And THAT is the bottom line for Hitech. Not whether FT or TT should be sacrosanct, not ENY...its whether players keep coming back.
I had a good time tonight....so I believe I will play again tomorrow night. :D
I especially enjoyed when the LCA launched a base taking mission just in time to keep the bish from resetting the map. What was it...? We cap'd a base and then 10 seconds later the Bish capped the base that would have won them the war. That is, if we hadn't capped the base we went after in the nick of time. Sweet. Can't wait to see if the map is still being contested tomorrow night.
And I really enjoyed intercepting the bomber hordes tonight. I really mean that. I completely enjoy defending against a well organized substantial mission that is thrown at us. Gives me that historical immersion factor I love to experience. Thank you to whoever set those Buf missions up.
Since we are both going to be playing the game tomorrow, I think things are as they should be. Did you have fun tonight DRED?
See you online. ;)