Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Whirlybird20 on June 16, 2001, 01:18:00 PM
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...because I know you guys are like the GODS of flight simmers and RL flying. Please help a wannabe finding what is wrong and incorrect with these message I was sent by by someone who says he is a real pilot, and teaching me to fly and is saying I am an idiot. :( The message is this:
actually, your "torque", its known as adverse yaw effect to pilots. And while aim at it, let me point out a few other problems with your statement. Oh, and before I do, I may just add that I am currently a pilot and have been flying for over 3 years now. (my ratings are: Commecial Muilt-Engine Instrument with ratings for Complex, high performance, taildraggers, and type ratings for the Citation, Lear Jet, Hawker, Cessna 310, And Seneca.... CFI rating after one more test, if all goes well) Everything from single engine cessnas to multijet Hawkers. Now..back to the subject.
The direction depends on the direction (and speed) the prop is spinning. In american aircraft with fixed pitch, this would cause a pull to the left. in other countries however (and even in some multis) they spin in opposite directions. Its also not the differential in push that causes this, it is also the corkscrew efect. As the wind corkscrews past the vertical stabilizer, it generates more push to one side than the other. This effect also had a great deal to do with the location of the pitot statis system in mechanical aircraft (which is all they had back then).
Also, if you actually flew in RL and not in some sim, you would realize that only an absolute idiot actually holds the rudder out throughout this, as it is much easier to just add rudder trim (which is one point in the game that fails, the rudder trim is extremely touchy and cannot be fine tuned). And in fact, in twin engine jets, it takes two people to go through the entire process to take off (required by law to have full crew). The rudders get you around on the ground, and aid in turning so that the plane does not fall into either a slip or skid. Also, as the standard aircraft pulls to the left, it also SHOULD pull ot the right when decending. Again, do to adverse Yaw acting 90 degrees to the pitch angle.
I also noticed that as the plane approaches a stall, the control surfaces still remain as effective. This is a great flaw, as they would be come less affective close to a stall. First the rudders go, then the elevator, and then the ailerons (they fail last because the inside of the wind actually stalls before the outer edge where they are located).
There is also no penalty for dumping flaps in at full speed, nor is there a penalty for using the variable pitch propeller improperly. Not to mention extending gear or failing to retract. but the one that gets me is how a normally aspirated engine with a float type carb can actually fly upside down. I would think that without fuel, the engine would cease, but not in WWII. Guess they must have secret high tech fuel pumps installed huh?
Oh, and pulling out of a dive going at such a high speed? A real plane would slam into the ground because of a stall. Even though it is pointes forward, its momentum is still carrying it down, so in essense, it has exceeded the critical angle of attack (to the relative wind). Hence, a full stall. But somehow, they can seem to just pull out instantly and not have to vut the throttle and slow their way out of this. (Again with the new high tech aircraft, wow)
Those are just a few of the points. I could go on if you would like. But to be quite honest (and frank) I dont think that someone who flys planes in a sim can tell a pilot how flight mechanics work. You can say what you want about the game, but when it comes to this, you are WAY out of your league.
P.S. Please tell me it is true this game is now 10 dollars? I would humbly like to join you masters if that is the case.
-Whirly
p.s. please, please tell me what is wrong with what he said. I thought only 1 plane pulled on the right in WW2. And what else is he saying wrong and do you think it is true he is a pilot like he says and should be teaching me?
[ 06-16-2001: Message edited by: Whirlybird20 ]
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I’m not a real pilot.
I’m not a “god” in AH.
Without seeing your side of the correspondence it is quite hard to divine what exactly is going on. I would say though, if this is an instructor of some sort, and he is calling you an idiot… I would find another instructor.
Zippatuh
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Is he talking about AH or WW2OL? Cos most of the stuff he mentions *is* modelled in AH.
And no, there's plenty of WW2 aircraft that pull to the right (Typhoon & Yak modelled in AH for example).
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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Ok thanks guys. Too answer your question, it's WW2Online. He was complaining the Spit and the ME109 pulled to the RIGHT. I told him they pull to the LEFT. And he went on saying thing like that the only fact that they do pull is because of corkscrew effect. I read somewhere there where 3 factors. Torque effect, the effect on the tail and the push of the prop as it goes down. Then he wouldn't believe the ME109 emil had fuel infection. This is his last message on the subject.
please get your facts straight before posting. First, i dont really care whether you think I am a pilot or not. What you believe has no bearing on the truth, regardless of what you may think.
But back to flight101.
How many tail draggers are around?? ummm...a lot!! Have you never seen a General aviation ramp?? People LOVE the tail draggers, the two classics being the J-3 Piper cub and the Cessna 140a. Cheap, old, classics.
Dont apply full throttle until nose down?? Check your sources and ask them the procedure for "soft field" and "short field" take offs. Did you even know that the rudder controls are tied directly into the tailwheel or did you assume they only controlled the rudder, and that the tailwheel flopped around like a shopping cart wheel? And you also say that yaw is the effect you get from turning? ummmm..... no. There IS yaw when turning, but it has nothing to do with the turn, its the prop. It occurs because lift and drag are directly proportional. Dont forget that the prop is actually an airfoil. You want proof? Fly a twin engine prop that has counter-rotating props. You will never have to touch the rudders when in the air. (once you sync up the props that is). Unless, of course, you get desperate and for some reason need to use the thrust differential (again, another tactic used in high cross wind landings). And if thats not proof enough, try a jet and then tell me you have "yaw" when turning. Im am truly sorry, but you are in error. But you still havent explained why all three control surface trims are so tuocky, which was the problem. They are not touchy in RL. Matter of fact, in the ND-80 it takes NUMEROUS revolutions of the rudder wheel for even a slight movement.
Lets see, war is just starting, which would lead me to believe this is an early model. yet it still has a migical fuel pump?
Pulling out of a dive at high speeds... two words "dive brakes". So why can the others do it without dive brakes? Iy they didnt use them in RL they would stall. Are you trying to tell me that that is wrong? That it would not result in a high speed stall? You can do it in this game with no brakes. But what about the other problems I address? there were quite a few. did you forget? the loss of control during a stall? the pulling to the right when decending? why doesnt it do that? of the flaps and gear at high speeds? No effect either? or slips and skids? why do they not have those?
But to sum up the forces for you.. "torque" is from the spinning engine and prop, nothing to do with generated wind. "corkscrew" is the wind generated from the prop hitting the side of the stabilizer, and "yaw" is the slip / skidding action (because lift and drag are directly proportional and is determined by the angle of attack). I think I know what you mean by torque, you are actually refering to gyroscopic precession and the p-factor. but you were close!!! :) (this BTW also causes more friction on one side of the plane, this along with the weathervane tendance can make things ugly)
Oh, and BTW, try hitting the left or right brake while taking off (even tapping them) like they do in this game and watch how fast you end up biting it hard
I find a lot wrong with what he says, don't you guys? He said that the rear wheels are fixed in tail draggers and are also connected to the rudder.
P.S this is not private e-mail. What he posts is on public display.
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what a jerk
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Whirlybird, not only was his post fairly insulting, he's flat out wrong in many cases. Here are some examples:
Also, if you actually flew in RL and not in some sim, you would realize that only an absolute idiot actually holds the rudder out throughout this, as it is much easier to just add rudder trim (which is one point in the game that fails, the rudder trim is extremely touchy and cannot be fine tuned).
Only a frigging idiot allows trim to fly his aircraft through transient aircraft upsets. Trim is great for eliminating steady-state control forces, but for one-time or short term control force changes, "feeling" the forces and having to manually make control inputs is essential to maintaining aircraft control. I bet this guy trims when he flares instead of pulling back on the stick, and flies aileron rolls by trimming.
And in fact, in twin engine jets, it takes two people to go through the entire process to take off (required by law to have full crew).
Maybe in the twin engine jets HE has flown, but sheesh, the 3 years experience he has is just enough time to develop some bad habits and learn enough to think he knows it all. I have never flown a turbojet twin that requires "by law" 2 people, then again I've only flown 2 engine military jets. On the gripping hand, I read a few years ago how certain learjets are certified for single pilot operation, so ptooie on his argument.
I also noticed that as the plane approaches a stall, the control surfaces still remain as effective. This is a great flaw, as they would be come less affective close to a stall. First the rudders go, then the elevator, and then the ailerons (they fail last because the inside of the wind actually stalls before the outer edge where they are located).
This couldn't be farther from the truth, and even the correct application of his logic isn't true for ALL aircraft. In most planes, you lose ailerons then elevator then rudder and regain effectiveness in the reverse order, but different planes act differently near the stall so there is only a generic application of this "rule" to conventional aircraft.
There is also no penalty for dumping flaps in at full speed, nor is there a penalty for using the variable pitch propeller improperly. Not to mention extending gear or failing to retract. but the one that gets me is how a normally aspirated engine with a float type carb can actually fly upside down. I would think that without fuel, the engine would cease, but not in WWII. Guess they must have secret high tech fuel pumps installed huh?
I'm guessing he hasn't flown AH or WB, both of which model flap limits (by not allowing them to extend) and correct engine fuel/oil starvation based on the particular aircraft design. Once again, this dude is applying a whopping 3 years of experience with a handful of similiar civilian designs to high performance fighter aircraft. Not too credible.
Oh, and pulling out of a dive going at such a high speed? A real plane would slam into the ground because of a stall. Even though it is pointes forward, its momentum is still carrying it down, so in essense, it has exceeded the critical angle of attack (to the relative wind). Hence, a full stall.
If you don't pull hard enough to stall, you don't stall. It's calling pulling G's. Once again, it's a lack of experience and a fundamental ignorance of basic aerodynamics talking.
I'm sure this guy means well, but his experience and knowledge isn't broad enough for him to go slamming you or pretty much any semi-realistic game on the market.
Those are just a few of the points. I could go on if you would like. But to be quite honest (and frank) I dont think that someone who flys planes in a sim can tell a pilot how flight mechanics work. You can say what you want about the game, but when it comes to this, you are WAY out of your league.
This arrogance sums it up quite well, but he should be talking about himself. He doesn't have the knowledge or experience to back up his grand claims. Feel free to let him know where I feel he's incorrect, and if he blabbers on about how sim pilots don't know jack, you can let him in on my background (1000+ hours in everything from Cessna 150's to the F-15E plus over a year as a USAF primary flight instructor). I still consider myself a "new guy" in the aviation business so that ought to tell you how his experience stacks up against those who have really done something in aviation.
He seriously needs to get some aero books and do some reading. He knows just enough to get himself killed. Imagine thinking there's no way to pull out from a high speed dive... I pity any passengers he flies with.
He should also get a damn dictionary. Reading his badly misspelled message was painful to the extreme.
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its like eagl said.
in sims you can master everything the programmer can throw at you.
in the real world of flying you must keep learning every damn time you fly no matter how routine or you are an ignorant jerk like this guy who is whistling dixie right down into disaster.
btw. did you know that in hideously numerous cockpit voice recordings of accidents involving pilot error the pilot was whistling?
they thought they knew it all too.
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RE: whistling...
Sometimes when I'm really concentrating on a difficult task while flying, I'll start humming a song, or I catch myself singing "doobie doobie do" or something equally mindless. Almost everyone has SOMETHING odd they do when they concentrate that hard, so it's not suprising that some pilots are whistling right about the time the sh*t hits the fan.
I dunno why this is, but in some cases it's a deliberate attempt to reduce tension to aid in decision making and precision flying.
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Tanks alot guys. Especially Eagl :) You are a fountain of knowledge. I bow to ye God. You guys are everything I ever wanted to be, but couldn't. Ok, I'm starting to sound like a brown noser which I assure you I am not. Just merit to where merit is due. That's what I believe in. Thanks again for you contribution.
Hope I'll be flying with you guys soon. :)
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actually, when i was a kid i read all the pilots manuals i could find. he's right on most, if not all, counts.
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Originally posted by eagl
[B I bet this guy trims when he flares instead of pulling back on the stick, and flies aileron rolls by trimming. [/B]
Hey!!!!!! I have to use full trim while flaring the mooney to get that fat bastage down to a semi smooth landing!
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Originally posted by Whirlybird20
Ok thanks guys. Too answer your question, it's WW2Online. He was complaining the Spit and the ME109 pulled to the RIGHT. I told him they pull to the LEFT. And he went on saying thing like that the only fact that they do pull is because of corkscrew effect. I read somewhere there where 3 factors. Torque effect, the effect on the tail and the push of the prop as it goes down. Then he wouldn't believe the ME109 emil had fuel infection. This is his last message on the subject.
I find a lot wrong with what he says, don't you guys? He said that the rear wheels are fixed in tail draggers and are also connected to the rudder.
P.S this is not private e-mail. What he posts is on public display.
As for the Spitfire. It pulled to the left or to the right. It depends on whether it was a Merlin Spit or a Griffon Spit.
One of the things that happened to guys transitioning to the Spit XII (First Griffon Spit) who didn't read the pilots notes, was they cranked in trim the same as they would for the Merlin Spit. They ended up taking off going sideways or nearly hitting hangers as the Griffon rotated the opposite direction and they needed to crank in trim the other direction.
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Damn Cav you using the old retired thread shovel again? ;)
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<
> eagl, on two counts. The first for serving, and the second for taking that time to help him. I even learned a thing or two from that. Excellent post.
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Funny how some legend are hold still true like :
but the one that gets me is how a normally aspirated engine with a float type carb can actually fly upside down.
Sorry mister knowall ... float carb can be flown upside down it a question of design not of technology used.
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Revor did a number on me. I'm skeptical of every new member post i see now.:rolleyes:
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Enjoyed the laugh :)
I especially enjoyed his generalizations .. 'this always works' regardless of aircraft type .. he's prolly the laughingstick of where-ever he hangs out.
I hope he doesn't end up in *my* backyard in a smokin hole!
Excellent reply Eagl :)
Any of yas want/need to get 'into' how an airplane works . . really .. I highly recommend 'Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators' or at least a basic aerodynamic text book.
If you can swing it .. a couple years of aerodynamics in college is da bomb with a good instructor.
The guy hits a few points, but seems to be in the dark about a lot of things he needs to know if he actually flies, and moreso if passengers are involved.
All the trim in the world wont save yer butt when wind shear shoves you fifteen degrees off center on short final.. in the Mustang with full flaps an gear hangin and airspeed windin down to flare, it's rudder and a lot of it or a very bad day at the office.
-GE
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Originally posted by eagl
Feel free to let him know where I feel he's incorrect, and if he blabbers on about how sim pilots don't know jack, you can let him in on my background (1000+ hours in everything from Cessna 150's to the F-15E plus over a year as a USAF primary flight instructor). I still consider myself a "new guy" in the aviation business so that ought to tell you how his experience stacks up against those who have really done something in aviation.
Hey eagl.
If ya dont mind me asking, Whats it like to fly a modern fighter AC...
(yeah I know that the F-15 is getting on but I think it's still modern)
Is it all work and no play (ie ya spend all ya time managing the AC) or is it a thrill every time ya take off... ?
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Thank God I arrived before he did.
Eagl... good post
Whirly
Arrogant people like that aren't worth the time it takes to read their message much less type to. Even if he had been right, which I believe has been disproven for the most part, you can't change their mind and the beliefs to which they are married.
good luck :)
PS I am not a God... merely a minor deity :)
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OMG would all you responders please look at the dates on these posts.
Bronk
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*hangs head in shame...
was an interesting read though
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hmm is see u mentioned gods, but yet i see know mention of chuck norris
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Originally posted by eagl
RE: whistling...
Sometimes when I'm really concentrating on a difficult task while flying, I'll start humming a song, or I catch myself singing "doobie doobie do" or something equally mindless. Almost everyone has SOMETHING odd they do when they concentrate that hard, so it's not suprising that some pilots are whistling right about the time the ***** hits the fan.
I dunno why this is, but in some cases it's a deliberate attempt to reduce tension to aid in decision making and precision flying.
It seems to be a very common thing. My 1st solo on both fixed and rotary I sang/hummed all the way round the circuit without realising I was doing it. I think as you said its just a way of trying to relax in a high stress/concentration environment. Talking to some of the single seat fixed wing boys it seems they never shut up when flying and constantly talk to themselves.
Gatso
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Geez...The original thread was pre 911! I sure went digging huh
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Crap ! for once I didn't check !
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Originally posted by BlackHammer
actually, when i was a kid i read all the pilots manuals i could find. he's right on most, if not all, counts.
Troll!
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Originally posted by cav58d
Hey!!!!!! I have to use full trim while flaring the mooney to get that fat bastage down to a semi smooth landing!
Holy old post batman!
Other than the original flamethrower not being a pilot (I have type ratings in 310's and Senecas too...:lol ) Most folks also if they start collecting types don't bother getting their CFI's but aaaaaaanyways...
(in more recent news)
The Mooney isn't a fat bastage you blasphemer!!!! It's a lean trim hotrod to do what it does on 200hp. The new ones are just that much better.
81kts is the magic number over the numbers. One of the easiest airplanes around to land. It'll float just like the Cirrus will even if you're just +5kts over your target airspeed.
I'm getting the itch...I might have to drive back to Columbus to fly my old airplane.
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Golf to be honest with you im not the biggest fan of the mooney...I havnt flown it since my commercial, getting the complex hours...I would have much rather flown a RG...Dont get me wrong, the mooney is awesome for range, and time on CC's, but I just hate landing it...I prefer my baby Grumman Tiger lol...Oh well, I guess im just a wimp...but im trying to transiton into rotary so screw fixed wing! =)...........................(with my luck, 10 years from now i'll prolly still be flying fixed wing lol)
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soooo you want to fly 10,000 parts all in close formation?
maybe the mooney really isn't for you :)
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Hey, if he is going to slam you he should at least get the spelling correct!
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(http://webpages.charter.net/markbone/batmanrobin2.JPG)
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10,001 golfer...10,000 and 1 =)
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:rofl 5 years later...
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These are games we are playing. They get it closer than someone like me would know the difference (having no clue of flight physics), I just know its fun. I have an uncle who was a carrier pilot in the 60s. He got a couple flight sims about 10 years ago now...and we'd talk about stuff involving them.
He being a real pilot took it all way too seriously, and Id spank him in any game. Alot of real pilots I have known who play games analyze everything so much they lose something in translation.
Yeah they'd get me from point A to pont B safer than I could them in real life, but many would get their butts handed to them in a flight sim by a 12 year old. Its a game compared to real life. No comparision.
Oh wow I never checked the date! But I still stand by what I said.
This seemed like a troll to me.
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zzzzz revor strikes again
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he still convinced you to post something :p
and subsequently me too. :(
hey revor :)
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Originally posted by jaxxo
zzzzz revor strikes again
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
he still convinced you to post something :p
and subsequently me too. :(
hey revor :)
You guys really need to get a grip. Are you saying Cav58d is Revor because he dug up a thread from 2001?? :rolleyes:
Or that the Zombie hand of Revor has somehow possessed Cav58d to dig up a 5 year old Revor troll?? :noid
(or is someone just not paying attention? :D )
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It is possible that Revor, pileit extrordinaire that he is, discovered a wormhole and piloted his LA7 through the space/time continuum to start this thread five years ago.:noid
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This guy's a riot. It's been a long time since I've seen so many misconceptions about flight in one place
actually, your "torque", its known as adverse yaw effect to pilots...
Ahhh...Torque does not cause adverse yaw, it causes the aircraft to roll and is particularly evident in high power combat prop planes. It has nothing to do with adverse yaw, Torque effect is just the airframe's desire to roll in the opposite direction when the 18ft diameter prop accelerates. Adverse yaw can be an effect of P-factor but it's only "adverse" if you're turning away from the P-factor effect, otherwise it's called "proverse yaw" and actually helps a coordinated turn (i.e., less rudder required for coordinated flight). "Adverse" yaw (at least it's most basic cause) is that when turning, the up-going wing has greater lift and greater drag than the down-going wing. This drag yaws the nose away from the turn requiring rudder to correct it. If, however, the airplane uses spoilers instead of ailerons the spoilers on the downward wing are deployed increasing drag and yaw into the turn...this is "proverse" yaw.
Also, if you actually flew in RL and not in some sim, you would realize that only an absolute idiot actually holds the rudder out throughout this, as it is much easier to just add rudder trim
Others have commented on this. You DO NOT FLY BY TRIM. You just trim to take off the pressure and assist in holding a stabilized turn.
And in fact, in twin engine jets, it takes two people to go through the entire process to take off (required by law to have full crew).
Obviously he's not aware of the VLJ's coming on line, plus FAA requirements for two pilots is related to safety given the TOTAL environment in which jet aircraft operate not because it takes two guys to "take off".
I also noticed that as the plane approaches a stall, the control surfaces still remain as effective. This is a great flaw, as they would be come less affective close to a stall. First the rudders go, then the elevator, and then the ailerons (they fail last because the inside of the wind actually stalls before the outer edge where they are located).
Each aircraft stalls it's own way. Rudder actually lasts longer than aileron control. Not because the aileron's don't work but because they introduce asymetrical drag and yaw which will cause an airplane on the edge to depart and spin, that's why rudder is used for roll control at high AOAs.
but the one that gets me is how a normally aspirated engine with a float type carb can actually fly upside down. I would think that without fuel, the engine would cease, but not in WWII. Guess they must have secret high tech fuel pumps installed huh?
Carbereted aircraft will fly upside down just fine...and just as long as you keep positive g on the plane. It's not whether it's up or down, it's whether this is positive or negative g.
Oh, and pulling out of a dive going at such a high speed? A real plane would slam into the ground because of a stall. Even though it is pointes forward, its momentum is still carrying it down, so in essense, it has exceeded the critical angle of attack (to the relative wind). Hence, a full stall. But somehow, they can seem to just pull out instantly and not have to vut the throttle and slow their way out of this. (Again with the new high tech aircraft, wow)
Hummmm. Actually the limiting factor for pulling out of a true high speed dive is structural...pull too hard and you pull the wings off...the technical term for this is "structural divergence". I suppose you could argue that once ripped off the wings are "stalled"...lol. I love how he points out "critical angle of attack (to the relative wind)"...is there any other?
There IS yaw when turning, but it has nothing to do with the turn, its the prop. It occurs because lift and drag are directly proportional. Dont forget that the prop is actually an airfoil. You want proof? Fly a twin engine prop that has counter-rotating props. You will never have to touch the rudders when in the air. .. And if thats not proof enough, try a jet and then tell me you have "yaw" when turning. Im am truly sorry, but you are in error.
See previous discussion of adverse/proverse yaw. His comment about lift and drag being proportional has nothing to do with the prop but lots to do with the true cause of adverse/proverse yaw. As far as trying a jet...adverse/proverse yaw is a big deal...that's one of the biggest reasons they spend so much money on automatic stability augmentation systems. He may not have seen any yaw when flying a corporate jet but then he's never flown without SAS or been near the edge of the envelope.
Pulling out of a dive at high speeds... two words "dive brakes". So why can the others do it without dive brakes? Iy they didnt use them in RL they would stall. Are you trying to tell me that that is wrong?
If they didn't use them in real life they would rip the wings off or hit the dirt. Best turn radius for a dive recovery is corner velocity. As previously discussed anything much over that will rip the wings off, anything less than that is stall limited. If you're really slow, the best dive recovery would be to go full power to accelerate to corner velocity in the pull so you get your best G without ripping the rings off.
Those are just a few of the points. I could go on if you would like. But to be quite honest (and frank) I dont think that someone who flys planes in a sim can tell a pilot how flight mechanics work. You can say what you want about the game, but when it comes to this, you are WAY out of your league
OK, I think we need to send this guy back to the minors.
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Originally posted by eagl
snip.........
On the gripping hand, .
........snip.
Hee hee...I know what book you read! Great one, eh? Love his stuff.
Eagl
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HAHAHA....So Now I'm Revor????????
To be honest with you, how I found this post, was by searching for "eagl" and I believe the keyword, "fighter pilot"....I knew he flew Air Force, and I was pretty sure the F-15, but I wanted to see if I could find anything else.....
lol, i saw the part about trim and I wanted to comment....
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Originally posted by cav58d
HAHAHA....So Now I'm Revor????????
To be honest with you, how I found this post, was by searching for "eagl" and I believe the keyword, "fighter pilot"....I knew he flew Air Force, and I was pretty sure the F-15, but I wanted to see if I could find anything else.....
lol, i saw the part about trim and I wanted to comment....
Hey..i dont blame you...I love trim just as much as the next guy.
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Aw comeon, no mention of my uber batman skills??
Im so hurt
*runs off crying* :cry :cry :cry :cry
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that guy had only 3 yrs in before 9/11...hes not flying...hes cutting grass somewhere.
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Wow I'm not even gonna go into detail, looks like you guys already replied with what I was gonna say... The person that said this has NO understanding of flight dynamics whatsoever or the actual parts on a taildragger type aircraft lol I would like to know who his CFI was so I could just jump up from flying single engine planes to learjets, then just skip some steps and become a flight instructor with no knowledge of the aircraft lol it's actually kinda scary cause what if this yahoo really is a pilot and he really is that dumb LOL
And unless your doing the pilot training full time at some sort of school, all day everyday, it takes a good 2-3 years just to get your single engine rating and instument rating. At least it did for me, getting about 2 hours flight time every week or so. I don't think there is any way whatsoever that this guy could even be close to being a CFI in that time period. I'm not certain on the requirements for being a CFI but I'm pretty sure it takes a LONG time. BTW Golfer, almost done with my dual engine rating, then its on to the fun part, instument rating. I'm actually dredding that part because of all the book work that goes along with it, know of any good online programs that get you ready for the test ? Before I took my checkride for my single engine rating I actually went to all the ground school classes before I found out I could have done/learned most of the stuff online for 1/4 of the price. If you can actually do this with Instrument rating , whats a good site or service to use, this isn't something that I would just want to do a search on lol as I want to make sure and pass it the 1st time :)
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Ice- If I were you, I would get the written out of the way ASAP....If possible, I would also try and take the CFII written around the same time you take the Instrument written because they are nearly identical....
Dont worry about the instrument flying...When you first begin, it will be the most mentally and physically challenging test you have ever gone through...I'll be honest...Even after flying only 50-60 minutes in IFR conditions, i'm ready to go to bed once I land! Your gonna be scared chitless at times...But once you get over the fear, your going to feel jubilance, and pride...I dont particulary like flying a full IMC flight...But when I get down, I think holy chit...Look what I just did! and its an incredible feeling!
Personally, my two biggest set backs during my instrument training were DME Arc's, and holding on NDB's...All NDB stations are going to be phased out over the next 5-7 years, but you will occasionally have to hold a DME Arc...
Just remember...ALWAYS BE CURRENT! And that doesn't mean just being current under the FAR's...Have a self currency mininum...Flying IFR is a heavy work load, especially when flying alone, and it's incredible just how much you will lose, even after taking a week or two off...
I dont think you are going to need an extra online study...Just buy an instrument kit, and all books included will be sufficient....
So good luck! It's well worth it in the long run, and dont get discouraged!
And Study the damn written, and get er done! It will make things much easier
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The hotels wirelss internet keeps dropping in an out despite the "excellent" connection reported by my computer. grr!!!!
Anyways I would say the Sporty's DVD course, Iceman. I haven't seen the King dvd's but the sporty's really lays things out in an easy to understand manner with some practicality injected as well. Richard Collins is boring, Rob Reiner is a sincere oddball but they do know what they're talking about. Collins' knowledge about weather is mind boggling and I force myself to read his columns from time to time because it's amazing the things I didn't even know I don't know.
What Cav said is pretty much spot on. I'd only say that once you have your IFR ticket...file everywhere you go. Fly IFR all the time when you're actually going somewhere.
Also here's a money saver I picked up when I was a shiny new line guy. Pick up your clearance before you get in the airplane. It'll be available 30 minutes prior to your proposed departure time and 2 hours after. Use a handheld radio or the aircraft radio without turning on the motor to do this and you won't have to burn that extra 1/10th sitting on the ground.
I don't know how you run your checklist but my instructor early on advocated "flows." Basically do all the stuff you need to and use the checklist as a backup saying the challenge/response stuff out loud.
i.e.:
engine runup you know you need to do a mag check, carb heat check and ammeter check. Don't sit there with the engine screaming referencing the checklist for every little thing. Do the mag check, check the ammeter/alternator, pull the carb heat and then go to idle for the check. It takes 10 seconds rather than the full minute some guys like to do.
And my personal favorite was this one when cleared for takeoff:
Time (check watch for takeoff time)
Instrument (DG to Runway/Compass)
Transponder (on/alt)
Switches (Landing Light/Strobe Lights/Pitot heat if required)
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
I’m not a real pilot.
I’m not a “god” in AH.
Without seeing your side of the correspondence it is quite hard to divine what exactly is going on. I would say though, if this is an instructor of some sort, and he is calling you an idiot… I would find another instructor.
Zippatuh
I second that whole-heartedly. There is nothing worse than an instructor that needs to boost his/her own ego by belittling the student.