Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: calan on March 25, 2006, 11:04:17 AM
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There is now an advanced sorting function on the plane database.
http://www.jcsautomation.com/AH_View_Vehicles.asp
You can prioritize all 16 attributes for sorting: for example, first by Top Speed, then by Weapon Power, then by Roll Rate, etc. It's pretty self explanatory. Just hit the buttons above the list for the sorting and filters. (You can also still sort on a single individual column).
The advanced sort isn't the same (or quite as useful) as weighted values, but it does provide some interesting views of the data. Once all the information is entered and validated, it will make more sense.
The weighting functionality should be implemented in a few days. Just have some details to work out...
Calan
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Wow Calan, what a good job! :)
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question on weapon ballistics(accuracy)... ive noticed you have all 3 P38s rated different, why? they all have same armament.
oh, nice going. appreciate effort.:aok
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thanks guys... it's fun :)
Killnu... some of this is just filler data at the moment. We're working on getting stuff validated. The data should be much more consistent in the next week or so.
Calan
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Nice work :aok
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Starting to look really nice... there are some things in the ratings Im not sure about... like the B pony beeing a better climber at alt then the D pony... ??? is that really true??
Then Id like to see weighed total stats...
The following cathegories would be nice...
BnZer
E Fighter
Turn Fighter
Slash N Run
Jabo
The sats could be weighed like this...
All non listed stats are x1
BnZ
x2.0 Dive, Energy Retention, Gun power
x1.5 Roll, Speed, Climb/Accel high alt
x0 A-G, bombing or what ever non applicable stat to fighters
E Fighter
x2.0 Climb/Accel low alt, Energy Retention
x1.5 Roll, Turn low alt, Gun power
x1.2 Climb/Accel high alt, turn high alt
x0 A-G, bombing or what ever non applicable stat to fighters
Turn fighter
x2.0 Turn low alt, Gun power
x1.5 Turn high alt
x1.2 Roll, Climb/Accel low alt
x0 A-G, bombing or what ever non applicable stat to fighters
Slash N Run
x2.0 Gun power, Speed low alt
x1.5 Climb/Accel low alt.
x0 A-G, bombing or what ever non applicable stat to fighters
JABO
x2.0 Bomb load, Dive
x1.5 gun power, Damage resistance
Another thing that could be interesting thing to calculate weighed is survivability.
Survivability
x2.0 Damage resistance, Speed
x1.5 Roll, Climb/Accel low alt, Decelleration, Dive
x1.2 Turn low alt
x0 rest
Tex
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Starting to look really nice... there are some things in the ratings Im not sure about... like the B pony beeing a better climber at alt then the D pony... ??? is that really true??
Then Id like to see weighed total stats...
http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/p51b.html
http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/p51d.html
The B model pony is under-rated. Just cause D came after B, better it doesnt always mean. D is slightly faster except between 14-21k and above 28k.
But B is a sig better climber above 11k and all the way up. And B is a better turner.
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Wow calan, it's looking really impressive so far! WTG!!!:aok
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Great job, Calan, I added a link to your site in my signature.... you're in good company! :D
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The design is excellent. I am sure as you fine tune the information contained in it, it will be a "must see" for anyone new to AH.
One minor criticism of the data itself. All of the 109s rate 4s or 5s in diving ability, which you define as "resistance to compression". In my experience, the 109 is one of the easiest planes to accidentally lawn-dart. But I am far from an experten in rating aircraft, so consult with others before making any changes.
Way to go! And a big THANK YOU for your labors! :aok
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Starting to look really nice... there are some things in the ratings Im not sure about... like the B pony beeing a better climber at alt then the D pony... ??? is that really true??
Then Id like to see weighed total stats...
The following cathegories would be nice...
BnZer
E Fighter
Turn Fighter
Slash N Run
Jabo
The sats could be weighed like this...
...
Tex
First, thanks for the compliments and the help guys... it's a lot of fun. We'll see how things end up, but it should be really interesting.
Tex,
Excellent! I just started work on this last night (see my post about mission scenarios). Actually, you've hit on two different pieces of functionality that I'm working on:
1. The ability for people to give the ratings their own weight of importance, and
2. Some preset usage scenarios (mission types) that automatically apply an appropriate weighting and then "recommend" the appropriate planes.
I have been trying to come up with numbers (multipliers) for the weighting. I had sort of settled on
1 - Not Important
2 - Somewhat Important
3 - Very Important
It's interesting that you have a range of from 0 to 2. May I ask what your logic was here? I've just been guessing and experimenting for the most part.
I've gone back and forth on the idea of being able to negatively impact a rating. (using anything less than 1 as a multiplier). The only instance I can think of where this may be useful is if a plane has an attribute that actually takes away from it's ability to perform a certain type of mission role. (I can't think of an example at the moment). If this is the case, I would think that the other ratings would balance it out, so I stuck with 1 to 3.
Thanks much!
Calan
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Logic comes from past experience of weighing numbered attributes... it was a hip shoot given the number of attributes... the more attributes the higher multiplyer you want or you have to "down weigh" the less important stuff...
Tex
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TexMurphy said:
BnZ
x2.0 Dive, Energy Retention, Gun power
x1.5 Roll, Speed, Climb/Accel high alt
x0 A-G, bombing or what ever non applicable stat to fighters
E Fighter
x2.0 Climb/Accel low alt, Energy Retention
x1.5 Roll, Turn low alt, Gun power
x1.2 Climb/Accel high alt, turn high alt
x0 A-G, bombing or what ever non applicable stat to fighters
Turn fighter
x2.0 Turn low alt, Gun power
x1.5 Turn high alt
x1.2 Roll, Climb/Accel low alt
x0 A-G, bombing or what ever non applicable stat to fighters
Slash N Run
x2.0 Gun power, Speed low alt
x1.5 Climb/Accel low alt.
x0 A-G, bombing or what ever non applicable stat to fighters
JABO
x2.0 Bomb load, Dive
x1.5 gun power, Damage resistance
I like this idea. However, your proposed weightings make no difference between E- Fighters and BnZ rides. Also, IMHO the stats currently on the page don't include 2 of the most important factors for E-Fighters and BnZ rides. These are zoom performance (as opposed to just normal ROC) and dive acceleration. Also, there's the cockpit visibility to consider.
So I'd tweak things like this:
1. E-Fighters
When I say E-Fighter, I'm talking about something that hangs around within d1k-d2k of the nme for a significant period of time, maneuvering with and against him the whole time, converting speed into angles via repeated vertical moves like high yoyos, lag rolls, etc. In the process, the nme is forced to blow lots of E taking evasive maneuvers until such point as its bled down and can't get out of the way when the E-Fighter comes back down from his 3rd or 4th high yoyo. Then the E-fighter inflicts fatal damage in 1 quick pass, having never even tried to get the nme in the sights until this point.
To do this, a plane needs the following:
1. High speed (say 1.5x)
2. Great zoom and/or great dive acceleration (say 2x each)
3. Decent roll rate (say 1.5x)
4. Heavy firepower (say 2x)
2. Slash and Run (aka BnZ aka standard Damned tactic from AW to now :rofl)
This is a plane that either through its design or the incompetence of its pilot comes screaming by at very high speed, blows 1 pass, and runs away into the next county before attempting to turn around.
1. High speed (say 2x)
2. Heavy firepower (say 2x)
3. Good cockpit visibility (for high-deflection shots) (say 1.5x)
4. Dive (say 1.5x)
Another thing that could be interesting thing to calculate weighed is survivability.
Survivability
x2.0 Damage resistance, Speed
x1.5 Roll, Climb/Accel low alt, Decelleration, Dive
x1.2 Turn low alt
x0 rest
I think the most important aspect of survivability is speed. To be able to rtb, you either need to kill every single nme in the area, or you need to be faster than the fastest nme when you want to make a run for it. Turning gets you killed, whether you're a stallfighter or trying to make a run for it, because it bleeds you down, so that nominally slower planes who arrive later with more E can still run you down. So if it was me, I'd do survivability like this:
1. Speed (3x)
2. Damage Resistence, Dive (2x)
3. Cockpit Visibility (to avoid surprise) (1.5x)
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I think you guys have me convinced to rename "Survivability" to "Damage Resistance"... this is what it was intended to be, but I couldn't think of better terminology at the time.
As you mentioned, "survivability" is really a combination of attributes.
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Zoom == Energy Retention...
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TexMurphy said:
Zoom == Energy Retention...
I disagree. There are 3 different types of energy retention, and most planes are usually good at 1 or 2 of them, but suck at the others. I define them as follows:
1. Zoom: From flying level, pull up into a near-vertical climb to quickly convert speed into alt, instead of using normal sustained ROC. The important thing is how long it takes the plane's speed to fall away to near stall (or the sustained ROC speed) doing this, which defines how high a zoom it can make. This is a vital stat for E-fighters but is of course very helpful to all planes. E-fighters with poor zoom must compensate with either excellent dive acceleration, good momentum (see below) or both. Otherwise, they suck as E-fighters.
2. Momentum: From a dive, pull out into level flight at a speed higher than the plane's level max. The important thing is how long it takes the speed to fall down to the normal max level speed for that alt. The longer the extra speed lasts, the more survivable the plane is, and the more it can do down at fight level before having to use its remaining speed either to zoom back up or to extend. Several E-fighters have much better momentum than zoom, and vice versa.
3. Turning: This is just sustained turn performance, which is already covered in other fields of the OPD. But it's all about energy retention, in terms of both speed and alt, while in the process of making hard turns for an extended period of time. Do you have to turn significantly nose-low to maintain speed, or not? This is the prime attribute of stallfighters, of course.