Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pooface on March 25, 2006, 05:02:21 PM
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i've noticed since the buffet was added the planes have changed dramatically. im now finding that spit are outturned, while using flaps, by much less maneuverable planes. im not really sure what the buffet does to the turn radius or turn rate of a plane, possibly HT could explain what happens now?
but, i was just wondering, if the effect could be dampened a little, and 'ease' in, instead of just suddenly being there.
any chance of this?
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Just think of it as a new plane you learn to fly. :)
PS: How are you Hurr1 kills coming along?
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Originally posted by Pooface
i've noticed since the buffet was added the planes have changed dramatically. im now finding that spit are outturned, while using flaps, by much less maneuverable planes. im not really sure what the buffet does to the turn radius or turn rate of a plane, possibly HT could explain what happens now?
but, i was just wondering, if the effect could be dampened a little, and 'ease' in, instead of just suddenly being there.
any chance of this?
Hi Pooface,
The buffet doesn't actually do anything to the turn radius or turn rate of the aircraft in Aces High. All the buffet does is warn you when you are reaching the stall.
The Spitfires can still tighten their turn considerably when they use their flaps, as they could before. However, riding the edge of the envelope is certainly different now and hardly surprising considering that there have been changes to the flaps and slats that will result in different low speed aerodynamics, particularly when coupled with the changes to the thrust model.
These changes are going to involve a learning curve for everyone, as we rediscover how the aircraft perform. Some aircraft have been affected by the changes more than others, the P-38 for example, has much lower Ps than before, while the Spitfires appear to have come through the changes rather well, in comparison.
Badboy
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i still think the effect should 'ease' in. as it is now, suddenly the aircraft starts to vibrate, it shouldnt really be instant like that.
i heard about the 38's though, which is kinda weird. oh, and schatz, i get a break from work next week for a while over easter, so i can fly a lot more then. the last month i've only really flown in the TA, not enough time for MA sorties:(
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Look me up when your ready to fly the MK1 in the MA...
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Originally posted by hitech
Point is, if your in the vibration, your turn performence is droping. Sound and shake happen post stall.
HiTech
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Yeah 38 pretty porked now in the low and slow.
38 rocked in the vertical and now its got nothing to show.:confused:
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will do cav! did a hurri 1 mission a few weeks ago with a few guys, and we got about 15 kills between us lol
and lazerr, mudr, i flew the 38 yesterday in the TA, and it was really odd! i had mustangs beating me in the vert, and the pilots were all noobs, not even using flaps, and asking what button you push to lower gear:rolleyes:
i was never great in that 38, but i was better than that! lol
i think the reason it makes such a difference is because it is so instant. im sure it would be better if it faded in just a little, so we had a little warning.
HT, could you possibly explain what the buffet does? if i was flying flaps out just over the buffet speed and AoA, and then crossed the envelope, and went full stick back, which would turn me tighter/faster?
would be very useful to know i think
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1st , I am not HT, Poo :-) ( btw, I am assuming you are talking/referencing the slow end of the flight envelope regarding Speed )
Originally posted by Pooface
HT, could you possibly explain what the buffet does?
buffet tells you , you are at the edge or just past it of the flight envelope of your plane ( simple answer )
Originally posted by Pooface
if i was flying flaps out just over the buffet speed and AoA, and then crossed the envelope, and went full stick back,
I would say if you was flying with flaps out and over the buffet speed / AoA, and crossed and pulled stick full back, you would STALL or possibly even spin if ya had any type of cross control input ...ie alierons & elevators or elevators/rudder or all 3.....
Originally posted by Pooface
which would turn me tighter/faster?
might turn faster and tighter by spinning ;)
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Originally posted by Pooface
HT, could you possibly explain what the buffet does? if i was flying flaps out just over the buffet speed and AoA, and then crossed the envelope, and went full stick back, which would turn me tighter/faster? would be very useful to know i think
I'm not sure if HT will respond, but I can explain that for you, and my apologies if this is a bit lengthy.
You have basically asked two questions, what the buffet does, and what would happen if you were just above the stall/buffet speed, and then used aft stick to increase the angle of attack into post stall flight.
Before I answer those questions, I should say a few words about the stall, just to make sure we are on the same page. Normally, the amount of lift generated by a wing is directly proportional to the angle of attack, that is they vary linearly with respect to each other. That means that if you were to plot lift against angle of attack, the graph would be a straight line. However, as the angle of attack increases, there is a point where the lift begins to fall off and that is known as stalling. That corresponds to the point where the angle of attack has increased to the point that the air flow around the wing can no longer follow the shape of the wing and begins to separate from it, forming a turbulent wake that starts near the trailing edge of the wing. It can happen gradually, or sharply depending on the profile and geometry of the wing. For examples of wing geometry, with a rectangular wing the air begins to separate near the trailing edge at the root first, so the aircraft suffers root stall, which is desirable because if the wing stalls near the root first the ailerons remain effective longer. With an elliptical wing the air separates more evenly along the trailing edge of the whole wing so there is only little advance warning of a complete stall. Most WWII aircraft have a wing taper approximately equivalent to that of elliptical wings. Wings with more taper than that tend to stall near the tips first and that is very undesirable because it promotes lateral instability. These affects can be modified with twist, washout, camber and the use of different wing sections along the span. The profile of the wing is also important, and sharper leading edges tend to result in abrupt stalls, while larger more rounded leading edges stall less abruptly. That is why trainer aircraft have fairly round leading edges, and that often causes problems when pilots convert to real fighters, because they are often surprised when their aircraft stalls with much less warning than they are used to.
The reason for the loss of lift, and stall is due to the separation I mentioned earlier. Normally it starts near the trailing edge of the wing and moves forward as the stall becomes deeper creating a turbulent wake. It is that turbulent flow impinging on the aft portions of the fuselage and on the empennage that cause the buffet and the sound that pilots in WWII called the burble. The turbulent wake is significant because not only is lift lost in stalling, but the turbulent flow over the control surfaces at the wing and tail reduce the control effectiveness/power, which is one of the reasons for a high rudder at the tail, to ensure lateral control at high angles of attack.
Now to answer your first question. The buffet and associated noise are both characteristics that are symptomatic of the stall, they don't do anything themselves, other than make gunnery a little more erratic. If you had asked what does the stall do, the answer would be that stalling reduces lift, increases drag and causes buffeting and noise due to the turbulent wake.
The point is that while the buffeting is new, the stall has always been there, and the buffeting doesn't add anything new other than the movement and sound you hear on the screen, the aerodynamics of the stall are the same as they always were, it is just that now you have a much better indication of when the stall occurs.
To answer your second question, if you continue to pull aft stick once you reach the stall, you will lose lift and gain drag, and that means that you lose the ability to turn as well, and when you are outside the envelope, you risk departure from controlled flight. But those effects are caused by the stall not by the buffet, and that has not changed, the buffet just warns you when it is about to happen.
i think the reason it makes such a difference is because it is so instant. im sure it would be better if it faded in just a little, so we had a little warning.
You do get a warning, the volume of the stall horn increases gradually up to the stall when the aircraft begins to buffet, or burble, as they called it in WWII. Ideally, you should approach the stall gently, so that you don't overshoot and lose lift. In the past, the stall horn did exactly the same job as it does now, but you had no clear indication of when you had stalled until you noticed the lateral instability, that is the tendency to drop a wing and enter a spin, or the loss of lift and nose down pitch stability and by then it was already too late.
That's why some folk complained, because their aircraft was dropping a wing, or spinning with out any warning, now the warning is there, as HT always intended it would be. I already notice that the buffet and associated sound are already helping folk to avoid that and flying aircraft that had a tendency towards lateral instability is now easier.
Lastly, I just want to add, that all this is not directly related to other changes we are noticing in the flight model, the differences in the P-38 with full flaps, for example. Those things are being caused by changes in the flap and thrust modelling that have had an influence on the excess power available in the low speed region of the envelope. So if you notice that the spitfire behaves differently at low speed, it isn't because the buffet is doing anything that wasn't happening before, it is because the flap and thrust modelling has changed.
I will be producing EM diagrams for the new flight model and overlaying them to discover what impact the changes have had on dissimilar air combat, particularly for the aircraft where there is an obvious difference, and I'll pass on the diagrams and conclusions as I produce them.
Hope that helps...
Badboy
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cool. yeah, what i really wanted to know was if it was better now to turn outside of the buffet, or inside. answered it well BB, ty:)
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Originally posted by Lazerr
Yeah 38 pretty porked now in the low and slow.
38 rocked in the vertical and now its got nothing to show.:confused:
:(
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Originally posted by Morpheus
:(
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Origionaly posted by pooface.
i've noticed since the buffet was added the planes have changed dramatically. im now finding that spit are outturned, while using flaps, by much less maneuverable planes. im not really sure what the buffet does to the turn radius or turn rate of a plane, possibly HT could explain what happens now?
Well all i can say is im happy AH got one step closer to realism with its flight model, dont dum it down so people can ease into it or else no one will even realize what was changed, there by learning something.
Im just amazed that the prop slip stream and static thrust have been "off" for all this time since they obviously make a big difference in terms of Flight modeling accuracy and ah was known for being pretty accurate before this patch, how could we have gone so long without things as rudamentary as a stall buffet? I guess this latest patch addresses any gripes i used to have in terms of "feel".
Seems like this patch was significant enough to call this ah3. Anyhoo to all the hard work that is making AH the most succesfull air combat mogg out there, i guess its necasary to ease things in like this because if it were introduced earlier on it might have scared people off because of the learning curve. Now we can brag about ahs flight modeling even more!
I belive HTC has more credibility than Oleg Maddox of il2, and he wont cave to the gamers that want it "their way". AH will be accurate!
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with ya there eilif.
but, in real life, the buffet doesnt just appear to go from 0 to full intensity with a few degrees, it does ease in just a little (there are varying degrees of buffet, not just on/off). so my point is really that it should fade slightly
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I don't even notice the stall buffet, probably because i'm not good enough to even start turning before I get shot down. Seriously though, turn off the machine gun stall buffer sound and you don't even know it's there!
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Originally posted by Pooface
i still think the effect should 'ease' in. as it is now, suddenly the aircraft starts to vibrate, it shouldnt really be instant like that.
In real life, some aircraft do get into stall quite suddenly and with little warning... High Performance fighters are especially prone to this... You can't have it both ways... If you want outstanding manuverability then you degrade stability by necessity... Just the way it goes in pre-fly-by-wire aircraft...
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I knew YOU would understand Morph...:(
Now lets go on STRIKE!:eek:
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Originally posted by Pooface
with ya there eilif.
but, in real life, the buffet doesnt just appear to go from 0 to full intensity with a few degrees
Actually yes, it does...
The difference is that in real life you're fighting with the full forces of the stick, in AH you don't have all of that tactile feedback (I don't care what stick you have...)
a few degrees of AOA is more than the amount of warning you get even in a nice stable Cessna.
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but kurt, it isnt instant off/on is it?? there is a very small amount of fade in. it's the on/off effect i hate. i love the stall buffet, think it's great, but it needs to increase from 0 to 1, not 0 to 1 instantly, if you understand what i mean
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I do understand what you mean, but what I'm saying is that in the real plane you would feel the controls going weird on you.. There is no way to simulate that...
In reality, a relatively unstable fighter is going to go through that boundry so fast that if you can't actually feel the stick (as in AH) you're not going to get any warning... And if they gave you the additional time to warn you the performance would necessarily become unrealistic.
You just need to be more sensitive to the control feel as you approach these high AOA stall conditions... AH does drop some hints, and if you fly with an awareness of them you shouldn't have much problem..
Control lack of response and so on are warnings that you are right at the edge.
Spits were never intended to fight with flaps deployed, Mustangs and such were designed to carry a notch of flaps when needed.... So if thats what you're doing (in a spit or other airplane not designed for it) then you are already beyond the normal envelope, and should relearn what you're doing.
The rule of thumb I use is that if the stall horn is on at all then I need to rethink the manuver... 2000hp planes (NONE OF THEM) are designed to be intentionally stalled. If you're stalling it, you're working too hard.
Even planes that fly comfortably pretty far into the stall horn will bleed so much energy in that condition that its unlikely to pay off in the long run (read that as - you may get this kill, but you're going to have a lot of work ahead of you to get your speed back and you'll be vulnerable during that time).
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S!
can i still aim the pointy end down the runway and fly?
:)
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so, sitting here reading this, I am wondering!
does the new changes affect those that used "combat trim" more so than those that used a manual trim for the most part?
I am thinking this is probably something that will make AH better, but might increase the learning cruve/er I mean add to it for those that have not flown AH for /thru it's entirety.......
hope to get a chance to get online tonight and try out the new patch for me ownself.....
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Increasing the learning curve is a good thing! there is always the stall limeter and combat trim for the new players. The learning curve is why i do flight sims, mastering the plane is the most gratifying game play element. If you decrease the learning curve you decrease the amount of variables to keep people occupied with learning thier plane so that they can look forward to being better there by getting more satisfaction out of victory. This is the key element that makes games like crimson skies from doing very well for the long term. People hop on because its very accesable and everyone and their grandma could fly it. But like mario it comes and goes till another incarnation. Mogs must develop and have something that keeps people coming back for more, thats the learning curve!
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Originally posted by eilif
Increasing the learning curve is a good thing! there is always the stall limeter and combat trim for the new players. The learning curve is why i do flight sims, mastering the plane is the most gratifying game play element. If you decrease the learning curve you decrease the amount of variables to keep people occupied with learning thier plane so that they can look forward to being better there by getting more satisfaction out of victory.
Totally agree... And frankly, while I know this is a game and not a pure 'simulation' anything that puts a stop to unrealistic play styles (such as spitfire stall fighting) is a good thing.
Nobody in the war WANTED to be slow and low. It happened, and some planes did well (hurricane) in that environment... But no pilot (not even in a hurricane) deliberately placed himself in that situation.
And now the stall fighters of AH are learning why.
I like it.
Don't get me wrong, I fly pretty manuverable planes (spit9 mostly)... But I'll take speed and good tactics before small turning radius any day.
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Pooface:
"but, i was just wondering, if the effect could be dampened a little, and 'ease' in, instead of just suddenly being there".
Why is it you can request something be adjusted with a PLANE but us GV guys should just take what we get and (as you stated) quit whinning:huh
Go figure
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Originally posted by MOIL
Pooface:
"but, i was just wondering, if the effect could be dampened a little, and 'ease' in, instead of just suddenly being there".
Why is it you can request something be adjusted with a PLANE but us GV guys should just take what we get and (as you stated) quit whinning:huh
Go figure
because in real life it isnt either on or off, it does vary/fade in, even though it may fade in very quickly
the GV situation has now been modelled more realistically, and the GV's now experience what the fighters always have, yet the GV guys complain that they are being hard done by. fact is that until now you've had it easy.
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Originally posted by Pooface
because in real life it isnt either on or off, it does vary/fade in, even though it may fade in very quickly
I thought this was answered. It does "fade" in already. It is what the stall horn does. Ignore the horn, you "ease" into the buffet as it gets louder. So don't ignore it.:)
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Originally posted by Pooface
because in real life it isnt either on or off, it does vary/fade in, even though it may fade in very quickly
the GV situation has now been modelled more realistically, and the GV's now experience what the fighters always have, yet the GV guys complain that they are being hard done by. fact is that until now you've had it easy.
That's a good one, I didn't know you recently OR in your lifetime fired the gun in the Ostwind in RL?
Same could be said for every single A/C in the game. I have talked to several individuals that have flown WWII A/C and have fired AA guns of this calibre. The guns do not make the rest of the world "blurry" unless you rest your head against the guns.
When a 37mm Flak gun is mounted to a 40 ton tank it doesn't shake the enviroment around you.
If we are going to start modeling all the things that are more "realistic" as you put it, then planes should break down, spout leaks (not just from bullets, mech failures of all kinds, guns that jammed and on & on..............
Yet the bombers can still drop a full payload of ord at 100' off the deck...................:huh Yeah lets start talkin' "realism shall we!
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anything that puts a stop to unrealistic play styles (such as spitfire stall fighting) is a good thing.
This is just a stoopid comment.
And now the stall fighters of AH are learning why.
You are totally wrong. Stall fighting has become even better now that there is more feedback as to how deep you are getting into the approaching stall. Before the buffet you could unknowingly go too far into the stall and snap into the ground. Now it is easier because further real life like feedback is available.
HTC did a nice job with the buffet. I get the same feeling in AH as I do in the Pitts or 152 when I am maneuvering close to the stall.(noticed I said feeling) IRL you have the Stall horn (in most planes), the stick, then the buffet to tell you different things about the possibly impending stall. The stick and the buffet tell you how deep you are getting into the stall. Since HTC can't do anything about the stick all that is left is the buffet to play with.
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pffft, mars what do you know. you think you are a flyer guy in real life too!?!:noid
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The buffet hurts stallfighters? LOL What are you people smoking?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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LOL Morph she's all over the floor right now( doing annual inspection), I'll be calling you to come turn some screws next week! :aok
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NOICE.
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Thanks mars01: The sound and shake remide me of the of the accelerated stall when pulling to hard on the down side of a loop in my RV. Always scares the crap out of a lot of pilots who have never done much acro when I bump the edge and the elephants start jumping on the wings
The next thing you hear from them with concern in ther voice. WHAT WAS THAT!
Pooface. How it works is exactly as BadBoy describes. I will not ramp the buffet because it's purpose is to let you know when you went to far. If you buffet you need to let off the stick to maintain best turn performance. The stall horn has always been there to provide what you ask for. Knowing when you are aproching the edge. The buffet just lets you know you went to far.
Having done accelerted stalls in P51's I can asure you in that plane there was absolutly 0 feed back that I could detect before departing. Other planes I have flown give you a slight buzz in the stick before buffet onset.
HiTech
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Originally posted by Pooface:
Why is it you can request something be adjusted with a PLANE but us GV guys should just take what we get and (as you stated) quit whinning:huh
Go figure
Cuz it's called "Aces High!" lmao :D
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Originally posted by Alky
Cuz it's called "Aces High!" lmao :D
Which is a name NOT a discription.
Have you ever played IL2 Sturmovik? I have, and there's more than just IL2's in the game:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by hitech
Thanks mars01: The sound and shake remide me of the of the accelerated stall when pulling to hard on the down side of a loop in my RV. Always scares the crap out of a lot of pilots who have never done much acro when I bump the edge and the elephants start jumping on the wings
The next thing you hear from them with concern in ther voice. WHAT WAS THAT!
Pooface. How it works is exactly as BadBoy describes. I will not ramp the buffet because it's purpose is to let you know when you went to far. If you buffet you need to let off the stick to maintain best turn performance. The stall horn has always been there to provide what you ask for. Knowing when you are aproching the edge. The buffet just lets you know you went to far.
Having done accelerted stalls in P51's I can asure you in that plane there was absolutly 0 feed back that I could detect before departing. Other planes I have flown give you a slight buzz in the stick before buffet onset.
HiTech
That means p51 in ah2 should have no stall buzzer and no noticeable approach before departure, which would make flying it to the edge much harder than it is?
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1 thing I have noticed since this patch is it promotes more hoing and running. Everyplane I encounter now goes straight for the ho and then runs away regardless of what type a plane. 75% of the pilots in the game don't know how to manev to get on someones 6 they they go striaght for the ho. Now I have learned how to avoid most of the ho's but its getting very boring.
Now I like this patch for more realism its just the downside of it brings it right back down,lol.
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Originally posted by mars01
This is just a stoopid comment.
Explain why it is stupid... Spit 'stall fighting' is unrealistic... I've never seen any documentation that a pilot in a genuine spitfire in the real world used this as the prefered method of fighting.. Speed is life is the battle cry.. I've never heard 'Low and slow is life'. If you have something, please direct me to it as I would prefer to be educated, not ridiculed.
I appreciate your Pitts experience definitely means you're more advanced in aerobatics than I am... But it doesn't add up to flying a spitfire either... The pitts can do lots of things a spitfire can not do.
You are totally wrong. Stall fighting has become even better now that there is more feedback as to how deep you are getting into the approaching stall.
Well, there may be a few like yourself who understand the dynamics of how to ride a stall just right... That remark of mine about more people falling out of the sky in the last week since the patch is based purely on what I'm seeing looking out the window... I'm seeing MORE people over develop the stall and subsequently get into a ferocious spin... I don't have the numbers to back it up... But thats what I am seeing.
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It's impossible to say whether or not they're related, but I've noticed a helluva lot of new players over the last few weeks, and I was seeing a lot more HOing and a lot more departures from controlled flight over the last few weeks. Both situations you've described could be attributable to their inexperience, and not necessarily the changes in the FM. While I agree there are plenty of people augering and HOing, it's hard to pin the blame on a single factor.
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Originally posted by Kurt
Explain why it is stupid... Spit 'stall fighting' is unrealistic... I've never seen any documentation that a pilot in a genuine spitfire in the real world used this as the prefered method of fighting.. Speed is life is the battle cry.. I've never heard 'Low and slow is life'. If you have something, please direct me to it as I would prefer to be educated, not ridiculed.
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Are you saying that a Spitfire cannot stallfight? Because that's quite a bit different than what you appear to be saying, which is that Spitfires did not historically dogfight because tactics favored speed over stallfighting. If the plane can stallfight, then it should be able to stallfight whether it traditionally did that or not tactically.
I appreciate your Pitts experience definitely means you're more advanced in aerobatics than I am... But it doesn't add up to flying a spitfire either... The pitts can do lots of things a spitfire can not do.
[/b]
A Pitts can also do a lot of things that a Sptifire could do too... like fly at as high a speed as it possible can and rarely, if ever, approach stall speed in turns. Does this mean that the Pitts cannot fly slowly or at stall speed?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Are you saying that a Spitfire cannot stallfight? [/b]
Jeebs, I'm not picking a fight guys...
I never said it COULD NOT... I said that it was NEVER DONE DELIBERATELY... You could have read my earlier post to get that piece of information. Nobody deliberately set up a low slow condition to win a fight because while it WAS possible, it didn't work (largely because fights are almost never 1v1). So even if you tangle one guy down to the edge of stall, the other guy is going to get you.
A Pitts can also do a lot of things that a Sptifire could do too...
Yes, such as fly, taxi, burn gas... Thats a history lesson I don't really need. The point is there is a vast difference in horsepower, wing loading, speed. An aerobatic plane has a role, to fly right at the edge of flight (and beyond). Fighters are not designed to do that, so once you move beyond the basic aerodynamic discussion and you start look at these two flying machines as what they are, all the other comparisons break down.
If you tell a spit pilot that you know how a spitfire behaves because you flew (or own) a pitts special he's going to laugh you straight out of the crack house...
I'd wager it would be MUCH easier for a spit pilot to get a feel for the pitts than for the pitts pilot to get a handle on the Spit. Why do I say that? Well, can we start with the extra 1700hp and the MASSIVE torque that comes with it? Really, the list is far too long to get into right here. But suffice to say it is a lot like comparing a bottle rocket to a Saturn V.
SO the point is... I respect Mars' experience and defer the points where he is qualified to make a direct comparison... But beyond that, he has no experience that indicates any more direct knowledge of spitfire operations than I have. And if he does have that experience I have asked him to share so that I can become enlightened instead of 'stooopid'.
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OK Kurt - I'm not picking a fight either, but your comment is stoopid.
Why should anyone have to religate themselves to flying in this game as if their life depended on it, if they aren't bound by some need, like you, to fly these computer game airplanes as if they were in real peril. That is fine for you, but to need to stop others that would rather fly the planes for their strengths and weeknesses is stoopid.
AS for the Pitts = Spitfire. That comparison is even more devoid of thought. When I said "notice I said feeling" I figured someone would jump to your inaccurate understanding of my post.
At no time did I compare the Pitts to a spitfire, what I did say was that I recognized the same feeling I get when I am in much of the same situation in the Pitts as in this game. This feeling was not as accurately portrayed in the game befor the addtion of the buffet. I may have never flown a spit, but I certainly know what a stall is and feels like and obviousely HT does to.
Of the three indicators a RL pilot uses to read the onset and depth of a stall, no matter what type of plane, HT was only able to provide us with the stall horn. By adding the buffet he has added yet another level of reality. And not a level of reality that will make it harder to fly and fight, but a level that will make it easier to fight.
As for your seeing more people crashing due to this change, I would wager that it is the first time these players are seeing another aspect of a stalled airfoil, so I would expect some to need to get used to it and understand it better. For those that know the feeling, it is like recognizing an old friend that has been missing.
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Can I please have the real Mars back, and could we execute the imposter. TY.
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Originally posted by mars01
For those that know the feeling, it is like recognizing an old friend that has been missing.
Agreed.. And that remark right there is the very thing I'm talking about. And watching people who DON'T understand those basics has led to a pretty good month for me.
Like you, I've done the real stalls and know how they develop, and I know that anyone who has done that recognizes things long before the horn starts going off. I know you already know this, but for those out there that don't the stall horn is meant to be the 'hey stupid, wake up!' noise...
I think you misinterpreted my remarks initially... I don't fly in AH with an assumption I'm gonna live.. Jeez, look at my numbers, its pretty clear. And I don't care if someone does want to sit down there in the trees at 80mph with the flaps out... No skin off my back... But when that same guy starts to complain because his airplane suddenly started acting more like an airplane should in those conditions... Then I'm ready to make a remark. And I did.
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I think you misinterpreted my remarks initially... Then I'm ready to make a remark. And I did.
I didn't misinterpret your remarks. You stated that you do have a problem with people stall fighting.
Totally agree... And frankly, while I know this is a game and not a pure 'simulation' anything that puts a stop to unrealistic play styles (such as spitfire stall fighting) is a good thing.
So you now agree this is a stoopid statement? Or do you still want to stop everyone who enjoys a good stall fight? Now I am confused since you are saying two different things. Did you mean to say you mis-spoke and we now agree? :D
Nobody in the war WANTED to be slow and low. It happened, and some planes did well (hurricane) in that environment... But no pilot (not even in a hurricane) deliberately placed himself in that situation.
And now the stall fighters of AH are learning why.
I like it.
Don't get me wrong, I fly pretty maneuverable planes (spit9 mostly)... But I'll take speed and good tactics before small turning radius any day.
I still want to be low and slow. Sometimes that is the only way to get the lemmings to come down and fight.
The buffet makes it easier to stall fight, this is contrary to what you said above. If you said The noobs will have a harder time rather than The Stall Fighters I would have agreed with you. Just because some noobs might find it a little more difficult at first, doesn't mean they are not going to realize the benefit and get better. Thus making stall fighting even more realistic, rather than unrealistic.
Explain why it is stupid... Spit 'stall fighting' is unrealistic... I've never seen any documentation that a pilot in a genuine spitfire in the real world used this as the preferred method of fighting.. Speed is life is the battle cry.. I've never heard 'Low and slow is life'.
Of course WWII engagements didn't start out low and slow because real pilots only got one life and thus would only engage when they really had to. For most in this game the point is to fight. A spit has the ability to fight low and slow, why should we not fight like that in this game. To expect people not to fly the planes in all their forms and capability is stoopid. Do you log off when you die the first time?
Of course work is slow and I am bored or I woulda let you off the hook. LOL :D
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The P51 got porked just as bad as the P38 if not worse. It turns like a pig now and just yesterday I was moving in on a bandits six, I went up, over, and with my nose pointed to the ground....went into a sudden spin and lawn darted.
Back to being cannon fodder I guess...........
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Originally posted by bigsky406
The P51 got porked just as bad as the P38 if not worse. It turns like a pig now and just yesterday I was moving in on a bandits six, I went up, over, and with my nose pointed to the ground....went into a sudden spin and lawn darted.
Back to being cannon fodder I guess...........
Two days ago I got jumped by a NIKI and something else. I was in a 51. Did not see them untill they were on my six. They both died. Does that mean the NIKI and what ever the other was are porked?
They made a mistake and so did you. Nothing to do with the planes we were in.
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Two days ago I got jumped by a NIKI and something else. I was in a 51. Did not see them untill they were on my six. They both died. Does that mean the NIKI and what ever the other was are porked?
They made a mistake and so did you. Nothing to do with the planes we were in.
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So a stall-spin while going into a dive is normal. Thanks for the info and redefining Physics.
Mistakes, ya sure I make plenty of them but, I also know the difference.
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Originally posted by bigsky406
So a stall-spin while going into a dive is normal. Thanks for the info and redefining Physics.
Mistakes, ya sure I make plenty of them but, I also know the difference.
Do you stall spin everytime you go into a dive?
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So a stall-spin while going into a dive is normal. Thanks for the info and redefining Physics.
Pull hard enough at any angle and you will snap stall every time all the time.
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sounds like HT just killed this thread too......time to move on I guess
Pooface. How it works is exactly as BadBoy describes. I will not ramp the buffet because it's purpose is to let you know when you went to far.
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Originally posted by DadRabit
S!
can i still aim the pointy end down the runway and fly?
:)
Wabbit Season!