Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sloehand on March 26, 2006, 12:45:57 AM
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Don't want to get too pointed here, but I'm thinking that some of the new gun vibration/shaking is way too severe is some instances. First, I'm not sure the a co-axial MG mounted fixed on a 40-50 ton tank would have any real shake to it, or for that matter the hull mounted MG either. The pintle gun, being a flex mount I can see.
The worst application of the gun shake is the Osti. We already had significant ballistic inaccuracy factored into the gun, now there is an extreme gun shake, again on a major tank chassis and what was essentially (I believe) some type windlass/crank mounting system. In any event, I don't think, the 37mm should have that much recoil effect.
From a strictly functional viewpoint, I haven't hit anything with it since the release and I had fairly good expertise prior and could hit 1 in every 6 or 7 planes I engaged. Certainly not up to Zazen's standards, but respectable and useful. Now it seems impossible to keep the gun anywhere near the target, especially diving aircraft, so we're pretty much at their mercy now.
I assume I'll get a little better with more practise, but it won't be targeting skill that will get better, just improved guesswork on spray n pray. If I'm correct, this could just about cripple the usage of the unit all together. Is this a bit of an over mod?
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Agreed. I wasn't too bad in the osti prior to the shake model, now I can't hit crap.
Heck, I was parked on an enemy airfield suppressing lifters and I can't even hit the dang airplanes sitting still on the ground!
Either remove the shake or remove the ballistic spread, or harden the main gun so it isn't so easy to kill...maybe that way we'll get off enough shots we might hit something.
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maybe a short burst is the answer, I see no problem, gone are the days the ground tards can tape their trigger down and hit you at 2k
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In the bombers the gun shake has made it a bit more difficult for me to hit fighters, not much but it does add to the feel of being in a twin 50 cal turret and I think I'm growing to like it. But in Tanks and the Osty it is wayyyyyyyyy over done. I was trying to kill troops running to the map room with my turret mounted MG and the sight was banging around so bad I could hardly aim at them. In the end I prpbablly used a 1/3 of my rounds just to kill 8 of them.
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oh god guys, there are so many threads on this that explain it all. basically, the shake doesnt do ANYTHING to the ballistics, it just makes the gunsight shake for more immersion.
the guns in fighters shake too, but we're used to it, so we dont really notice it. just look at the sight, dont spray all over the place, because that will jiggle the gunsight too much. just wait, and shoot off 2 or 3 rounds at a time, you wont notice it. after 2 weeks im sure you'll all see it's nothing
im sure HT could come in and prove this to you to calm your nerves
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I have to be honest, last night was the first time I have flown since
the new patch and I didn't notice any trouble at all. In fact I got 5 fighters
with a formation of B-26s before they finished me off...so it may be some
folks are more sensitive to the shake than others. I rarely do bombers
so last night was an experimental sort of deal.
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At least the shake in M3's gun makes me feel nauseous. :(
IMHO it would be much nicer if only the gun and its sight was shaking while everything else stayed put. It would also affect the gunnery like it is supposed to (?)
But probably this would need some major changes in the 3D-models and in the code... or would it?
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Originally posted by Pooface
oh god guys, there are so many threads on this that explain it all. basically, the shake doesnt do ANYTHING to the ballistics, it just makes the gunsight shake for more immersion.
And what does ballistics have to do with sighting? Thats like saying a sniper won't be affected shooting standing up in the back of a pickup truck going down a railroad track because his rifle shoots the same.
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The Ostwind is great fun now. :aok
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Originally posted by Lye-El
And what does ballistics have to do with sighting? Thats like saying a sniper won't be affected shooting standing up in the back of a pickup truck going down a railroad track because his rifle shoots the same.
the gunshake isnt moving the gun or the vehicle, it's moving the head of the gunner. thats why it seems the whole vehicle is moving, when infact, it is the viewpoint. use the .target command. the gun shoots EXACTLY the same as it did before, it's just that the gunsight moves like it should do.
it has been that way in fighters all the time. all you GV guys need to stop whining
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While I don't think the gun shake has much if any effect on the lead required for accurate aiming in and of itself, beyond the already randomized shell trajectories, I will say the Jell-O bowl blur effect does all but completely obscure your view of your tracers. So, while it doesn't effect my aim too much becuase I have every possible lead solution burned into my brain, not really needing tracers, it would definately make aiming for someone who was not so adept at aiming an Ostwind all but impossible. The notion of only firing in short bursts in Ostwind makes no difference, the blur effect is the same, it jiggles as though you were firing a rapid fire MG, not a slow firing high caliber cannon.
In my personal opinion it has, for the common person, made AA field defense impractical and almost a complete waste of time, now horde vulchers just overwhelm a base, establish tight CAP, vulch any defenders into oblivion and proceed to the next field uncontested...Without good (and realistic) flak defense of airfields there is little to stop this pattern now. The gun shake in Ostwind is wrong and a detriment to gameplay, it's nauseating and can provoke epileptic siezures and migraines, HTC fix it please...
Zazen
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Zazen:
"In my personal opinion it has, for the common person, made AA field defense impractical and almost a complete waste of time, now horde vulchers just overwhelm a base, establish tight CAP, vulch any defenders into oblivion and proceed to the next field uncontested...Without good (and realistic) flak defense of airfields there is little to stop this pattern now. The gun shake in Ostwind is wrong and a detriment to gameplay, it's nauseating and can provoke epileptic siezures and migraines, HTC fix it please..."
Thank You:aok
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Agreed, the headshake on the GVs make it harder to aim since the tracers are harder see (maybe an option to make them brighter?) as well as providing a headache effect. I can't use an Osti for a long time because of the headache it gives me.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
it jiggles as though you were firing a rapid fire MG, not a slow firing high caliber cannon.
This would seem to be the most valid part of the complaint. The recoil effect on the 40mms in the Hurri 2d would be more appropriate. I don't think it would make anyone feel better though -- a much larger recoil less often is probably worse for aim than a smaller, more constant shake.
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I like the MG shake. Much more realistic.
Not just the gun would shake but your entire body which would make the whole world seem to shake.
Would make sense inasmuch as your holding onto a shaking gun due to recoil that your body would shake too.
Ever work a jackhammer? LOL trust me. the hammer isnt the only thing that vibrates.
I havent had it give me any probs in either the pintlle or hull gun in a tank and cant still quite easily pepper planes passing by or anything else as I did before. It just feels more realistic.
As for the osti. I havent tried it yet. Not that that matters as I have never been able to hit much with the damn things before the new modeling
But E25280 has it nailed right on the head. If the osti were done correctly you would probaly like it worse as you would have a less frequent, but far more severe shake.
All in all the shake is a slight distraction. but it should be. MGs dont hold perfectly still so you can get laser type accuracy. They shake and vibrate. Alot.
and they werent designed to have lazer type accuracy. They were designed to put alot of rounds in a general area very fast
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Originally posted by E25280
a much larger recoil less often is probably worse for aim than a smaller, more constant shake.
I would disagree there, at least a larger recoil effect actually in time with the firing of the gun would not obscure and blur your view of the plane, your tracers and the sky in general. If there was a larger recoil effect they could remove the randomized shell trajectories as that was designed to 'simulate' the effect of recoil on aim. To have the random shell trajecory and recoil effect both influencing aim is a double-wammy on aiming and redundant...
No matter how you slice this the gun shake effect as it pertains to all ground vehicles is poorly done. It causes visual distortions that have nothing to do with reality and promote headaches and nausea. They are obvious cut n' paste jobs from the effect given to buff guns and really aren't applicable to 25 ton vehicles which are incredibly robust and stable gun platforms, especially for light cannon and MG firing.
Zazen
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Originally posted by Zazen13
No matter how you slice this the gun shake effect as it pertains to all ground vehicles is poorly done. It causes visual distortions that have nothing to do with reality and promote headaches and nausea. They are obvious cut n' paste jobs from the effect given to buff guns and really aren't applicable to 25 ton vehicles which are incredibly robust and stable gun platforms, especially for light cannon and MG firing.
Zazen
Haveta dissagree with ya there. Spent a good deal of time in Gvs tonight.
Still not an Osti though so I cant comment on that.
the Machine gun shake is a minor inconvienience at worst. didnt effect my aim or hitting anything with them at all.
and while Gvs may be stable platforms. it still has the ability to move from side to side up and down the gun itself still shakes. Thus the operator would shake as well.
In order for there to be no shake the gun would have to be welded in a fixed position and unable to move in any direction whatsoever
and while I only took one up.
I noticed that in a tiger the pintle gun doesnt shake at all
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The gun shake in the Ostwind is for the birds. :furious
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I have yet to see a mounted jackhammer. Surely anything you are holding in stiff hands or against your shoulder would shake your head.
However, the mounted gun can be held much smoother.. maybe the arms and hands would shake, but one's head would not shake around in same phase.
The bottom line is that if this kind of effect makes people nauseous, they simply quit playing with those rides! Is that the goal?
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I have never flown in a P51 and let all 6x50s rip. I dont think anyone of you has either.
I have fired a full-auto 50 browning from a tri-pod at a MG shoot/show though a few years ago. The recoil wasnt nearly as bad as the earthquake like recoil in AH now. Its kinda funny, and I dont play much anymore, so I dont really care what its like to be honest. If it spun the plane around I might like it more.
I watched a few guys shoot a mini-gun at the same show. The RoF on that was much faster and the recoil was more constant than the browning so he was able to hold a point after he initially fired the gun and basicly just sprayed the hell out of an old car down range.
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Originally posted by BlauK
The bottom line is that if this kind of effect makes people nauseous, they simply quit playing with those rides! Is that the goal?
Exactly...
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Took the Osti up tonight to see what all the hubub was about.
You girls gotta be kidding me.
It aint THAT bad even zooomed in
Nowheres near what people are trying to make of it. Least not sober
You folks make it sound like a 9.0 earthquake is going on when its barely a 1.2
Have you tried it sober?;)
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Originally posted by BlauK
I have yet to see a mounted jackhammer. Surely anything you are holding in stiff hands or against your shoulder would shake your head.
However, the mounted gun can be held much smoother.. maybe the arms and hands would shake, but one's head would not shake around in same phase.
The bottom line is that if this kind of effect makes people nauseous, they simply quit playing with those rides! Is that the goal?
A mounted gun still can freely traverse left and right and up and down. it is in those directions that the vibrations would be transferred. Your holding it would also transfer those vibrations to your body.
I've now tried all the guns including the Osti but not yet the buff gunner positions.
So far from what I see the complaints of the severity of the vibrations are grossly overstated.
I get more vibration effect from my lawn mower
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Took the Osti up tonight to see what all the hubub was about.
You girls gotta be kidding me.
It aint THAT bad even zooomed in
Nowheres near what people are trying to make of it. Least not sober
You folks make it sound like a 9.0 earthquake is going on when its barely a 1.2
Have you tried it sober?;)
It's really bad at higher resolutions. I dummed my resolution down to 600X800 it wasn't as bad (although everything is blocky). At my usual 1600X1200 (512 textures) it's pretty horrible. What resolution did you try it in?
Zazen
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Fighter guns shake. I guess they have for a long time, but you hardly notice it. You can only really see it at high zoom. Since fighters rarely shoot when zoomed like that, it makes little difference and it's seen as a nice visual effect.
Now the guns on buffs and gv's shake too. HT has posted the change was made to correct a long overdue oversight and that it was included to increase immersion. Further, it is the feeling of HTC that we'll become accustomed to the shaking in a few weeks and won't notice it.
Maybe we will become accustomed to the buff guns. Right now my squad is reporting a 20 to 40% decrease in effectiveness. Fighters we would have torn apart before are now coming in and killing our buffs. No matter how newby their approach they now have a better than 50% chance of killing our birds even if they die in the process. We're trying to become accustomed to the change, but so far it's not looking good.
The coaxial guns on tanks now shake. On another thread a guy who has shot the coaxial gun of a Bradley reported he wouldn't have been able to tell the thing was firing if not for the sound. It was that vibration free. Makes sense. It's coupled to the very large barrel of the main gun. Nothing hand held about it.
Ostwinds now rattle and roll like nobodies business. People who know the ride are reporting severe decreases in effectiveness. Some who have used the Ostwind for years, now can't because the movement is so severe it's making them ill.
The shaking may have been added for its immersion enhancing effect, but it's had some adverse side effects as well. This has not leveled the playing field or balanced the fight. It's had the opposite effect. The only people applauding the shaking are those that benefit directly from decreased efficacy in buff and gv guns. It would be nice to see it changed back to non-shaking.
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Originally posted by Zazen13
It's really bad at higher resolutions. I dummed my resolution down to 600X800 it wasn't as bad (although everything is blocky). At my usual 1600X1200 (512 textures) it's pretty horrible. What resolution did you try it in?
Zazen
Same thing I run everything in 1024 X 768
At that res the vibration to me seems to be about right. And the osti seems to vibrate a bit slower then the MGs. OR I should say more in time with the gun firing.
Yea there is vibration. but nowhere near as bad as its been described.
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Originally posted by ChopSaw
Fighter guns shake. I guess they have for a long time, but you hardly notice it. You can only really see it at high zoom. Since fighters rarely shoot when zoomed like that, it makes little difference and it's seen as a nice visual effect.
Now the guns on buffs and gv's shake too. HT has posted the change was made to correct a long overdue oversight and that it was included to increase immersion. Further, it is the feeling of HTC that we'll become accustomed to the shaking in a few weeks and won't notice it.
Maybe we will become accustomed to the buff guns. Right now my squad is reporting a 20 to 40% decrease in effectiveness. Fighters we would have torn apart before are now coming in and killing our buffs. No matter how newby their approach they now have a better than 50% chance of killing our birds even if they die in the process. We're trying to become accustomed to the change, but so far it's not looking good.
The coaxial guns on tanks now shake. On another thread a guy who has shot the coaxial gun of a Bradley reported he wouldn't have been able to tell the thing was firing if not for the sound. It was that vibration free. Makes sense. It's coupled to the very large barrel of the main gun. Nothing hand held about it.
Ostwinds now rattle and roll like nobodies business. People who know the ride are reporting severe decreases in effectiveness. Some who have used the Ostwind for years, now can't because the movement is so severe it's making them ill.
The shaking may have been added for its immersion enhancing effect, but it's had some adverse side effects as well. This has not leveled the playing field or balanced the fight. It's had the opposite effect. The only people applauding the shaking are those that benefit directly from decreased efficacy in buff and gv guns. It would be nice to see it changed back to non-shaking.
Yup the days of Barret 50 cal Sniper rifle accuracy for an "area weapon" are OVER!!!.
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I tried osty first time after a few weeks, noticed the sight shaking a lot but it didn't hurt my accuracy one bit. I guess I'm already used from playing AAO w/ iron sights.
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I'm a quiet Bish that loves this game--I mostly GV but now and again do the Spit thing. I have to weigh in on the issue of gun shake.
I personally have fired coax 7.62mm on a variety of armored vehicles, pintle-mounted .50s and 7.62s, and a 20mm gatling gun firing 3000 rounds per minute on a M113 chassis (Vulcan).
For the coax guns, there is no shake. Zero, nada, none, not one iota. Ok, there was once but that was because the idiot loader didn't connect the front pin. As the tank commander, you can't even hear the thing firing while wearing a CVC (helmet with earphones).
For pintle-mounts, 7.62s rattle your teeth but don't shake off target or your view (unless the sound makes you blink and flinch) if you lean in to them. A .50 on a pintle will dance a bit if you fire sustained bursts.
While I've never fired an Osti, the Gatling on the Vulcan, which is a hydraulic mount like the Osti, had zero shake when it fired. No wandering sights, no vehicle shake. That's logical when the cannon is hard-connected to the entire vehicle; the vehicle itself is a recoil damper. I just don't see how it's possible that the small cannon on the Osti shakes the whole contraption like it was a ground mount poorly set.
Especially with the Osti, I have seen a marked effect on accuracy with the update. I'm not talking about a 400 mph cross-shot on a vulching LA7, but rather a big as a billboard mosquito doing a straight strafing run into my gun. With the update, in my view, the LA7 will live where before there was at least some chance I could tag it. The mosquito driver now might live, where before there was no chance. The head shake is more like a handicap. Worse, it rewards poor flyers.
I know there are a lot of views on the issue and AH. Reality, gameplay, whatever. In my view, AH is an admirable balance among all factors. Particularly with the Osti, however, in my opinion that balance has been shifted away from both fun and realism with the gun shake update.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Same thing I run everything in 1024 X 768
At that res the vibration to me seems to be about right. And the osti seems to vibrate a bit slower then the MGs. OR I should say more in time with the gun firing.
Yea there is vibration. but nowhere near as bad as its been described.
Yea, you run very low resolution compared to most, it's not as nauseating at low resolution, try it at 128X1024 or 1600X1200, make sure to have a barf bucket beside your desk...
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HT has posted the change was made to correct a long overdue oversight and that it was included to increase immersion. Further, it is the feeling of HTC that we'll become accustomed to the shaking in a few weeks and won't notice it.
"Increase immersion"? By getting headaches and eyestrain? They are right about not noticing it any more. They ruined the only part of this game that I really enjoyed. GVs. So I spend more time doing other things and less time playing Aces High. So I guess I don't notice it. As far as it ruining the accuracy, not really. Aim yes. Hard to hit what you can't see.
HTC should have researched this a bit more. From all accounts from people with actual experience, it is VERY UN-realistic. And from a health stand point, it is VERY UN-healthy.
And to all you pups that say it that will start ripping on the "eyestrain" factor of this post, I am 47 years old and it does bother my eyes to use the Ostwind on aircraft or Pintle gun on troops. For those of you that are as old if not older and it doesn't bother you, I can only wish I were that lucky.
This little "Immersion" factor was poorly thought out and poorly done. Simple as that. More like an idea thought up at the bar across the street from HTC and implimented at the last second without any real studies from varied hard core players.
LTARsqrl <>
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this shake stuff is like anything else added to the game you will compinsate for it just takes some time
maybe if enough people whine about not liking it the fighter jocks can get off our backs about lazer guns
:D
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Originally posted by tatertot
this shake stuff is like anything else added to the game you will compinsate for it just takes some time
maybe if enough people whine about not liking it the fighter jocks can get off our backs about lazer guns
:D
Maybe we will compensate for the buff guns, maybe not. I get the feeling you and 999000 make more close range shots than long range ones. It's the long range ones suffering the most.
I think there's a fair chance of compensating for pintle guns, but that's not a sure deal either. The coaxial guns on tanks just don't make sense. As far as the Ostwind is concerned, I don't think it's going to be compensated for. From what I'm seeing, it's just not going to be a popular ride.
They'll never stop whining about lazer guns as long as buff guns shoot them down.
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Seriously though how many of you that don't like the headshake have LCDs.
Because it's just not that bad with a CRT.
Its not blurry with my CRT just moves a bit. If its blurring I am betting it's because of smearing with the LCDs.
Bronk
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19" CRT here. Bothers me a lot. About the only safe ride anymore is the goon . . . . no guns. :lol
LTARsqrl <>
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Originally posted by Bronk
Seriously though how many of you that don't like the headshake have LCDs.
Because it's just not that bad with a CRT.
Its not blurry with my CRT just moves a bit. If its blurring I am betting it's because of smearing with the LCDs.
Bronk
It's blurry as hell to me and I use a $1,500 CRT monitor...
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Yea, you run very low resolution compared to most, it's not as nauseating at low resolution, try it at 128X1024 or 1600X1200, make sure to have a barf bucket beside your desk...
Naaaa even then The shake wouldnt be that bad as it would be more then offeset by the lower single digit framrates I would get ;)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Naaaa even then The shake wouldnt be that bad as it would be more then offeset by the lower single digit framrates I would get ;)
Haha the slide-show effect is still less nauseating than the blurry-out of focus effect...
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Shake whacha momma gave ya!!
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I couldn't hit anything before the patch.....still can't ....but now I can't walk straight when i get up out of my chair!!!!
Its all good!
999000
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Originally posted by Grits
Shake whacha momma gave ya!!
Poison Clan is in teh House!
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Originally posted by Zazen13
Haha the slide-show effect is still less nauseating than the blurry-out of focus effect...
like I said. it would offset lol
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Originally posted by 999000
I couldn't hit anything before the patch.....still can't ....but now I can't walk straight when i get up out of my chair!!!!
Its all good!
999000
If you consider yourself unable to hit anything
Well lord help us you ever get good at it.
Now. Wheres my LTV? ;)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
S
Yea there is vibration. but nowhere near as bad as its been described.
Did you shoot zoomed in? It's mounted on jello for me instead of a 25 ton chunk of steel.
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Funny thing is they only managed to produce 44 Ostwinds,before the Ruski's overran the factory where they were made.Some of the first built were used in the Battle of the Bulge,and they done well.The Wirbelwinds didn't fare quite as well as they were harder to keep on target.They made 104 wirbelwinds,before the wars end.I wish AH would model another AA gun,like mabe the US 90 mm,to thin out the vultures.I can't hit crap in a Osti now,but I wasn't that great before.Zazens right,the bouncing around sucks.
IronDog
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Originally posted by IronDog
Funny thing is they only managed to produce 44 Ostwinds,before the Ruski's overran the factory where they were made.Some of the first built were used in the Battle of the Bulge,and they done well.The Wirbelwinds didn't fare quite as well as they were harder to keep on target.They made 104 wirbelwinds,before the wars end.I wish AH would model another AA gun,like mabe the US 90 mm,to thin out the vultures.I can't hit crap in a Osti now,but I wasn't that great before.Zazens right,the bouncing around sucks.
IronDog
This is one of the things I've laughed at since I started playing this game 5yrs ago. People love to give me a hard time about my beloved Wirbelwind, saying that only 100+ were ever made, most don't realize there were only 43 Ostwinds ever produced by Deutsche Eisenwerke:eek:
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The shake effect in planes does not seem so bad, probably because the horizon and the sky and everything is already moving somewhat.
But in GVs, when the vehicle is stationary and when the view even a bit zoomed in, the shake effect kicks much harder against the human sense of balance.... causing nausea.
I suppose it comes from the whole environment shaking... could it be easier on the vestibular organ if only the gun was shaking... don't know.
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just dont super zoom in with your view :)
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Did I say anything about super zooming? :p
Tried it once with full zoom :O :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ... did not try a second time :furious
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If you don't zoom in,then Zazens rule of Osti accuracy is null.
IronDog
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I have no problem with the gunshake, for one reason and one reason only.
To punish Zazen. Deserves it for shooting the only guy *not* vulching :lol
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Cool, I never zoomed in for the Ostie. LMFAO, I'm gonna reclaim "my title".
Karaya
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Problem solved. The new patch made thing MUCH better. Muahahahaha ! ! ! !
Watch out now.
LTARsqrl <>
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I'm glad HTC changed it. Makes the Osti a viable ride again. Sure hope I can get used to the bomber guns now. :)
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Originally posted by Pooface
the gunshake isnt moving the gun or the vehicle, it's moving the head of the gunner. thats why it seems the whole vehicle is moving, when infact, it is the viewpoint. use the .target command. the gun shoots EXACTLY the same as it did before, it's just that the gunsight moves like it should do.
it has been that way in fighters all the time. all you GV guys need to stop whining
With respect Poo, if you're using the gunsight to shoot in the Osti you're doing it wrong. Just ask Zazen. He has a whole treatise on proper gunnery in the Osti and you DON'T use the gunsight at all. Position the gunner's position all the way up, over the gunsight.
Further, targeting (regardless of whether it is ballistic accuracy, vehicle shake effect, gunner shake effect, or whatever) it is very different now. You should be able to tell from the above paragraph, I've studied and gotten fairly good with the Osti. I train my squad on Osti gunnery using Zazen's technique. I know there is an added (or increased) factor for firing on target. Previously, I could center on the fuselage of a diving plane, hold it there and the rounds would fly all around it, just above, below, left/right, but always close and within the diameter of the wings. Eventually, a round would hit a wing edge or the fuselage head on. Now, I'm lucky if every third shot stays within the same wing to wing diameter.
Previously, I figured the win/loss advantage for me was about 1 to 6, meaning I would hit roughly one in every 6 planes I engaged (including both dive attacks and deflection shots on fighters, but not including level bombing buffs). The odds were clearly in favor of the aircraft. Since, the release, I've probably engage about 30-35 planes and i've hit two.
I'm still trying, but its almost a sure death in the Osti or at least turret out, if a fighter dives on it now.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Still not an Osti though so I cant comment on that.
Not being flippant or confrontational here, but if you don't know anything about the effect on the Osti before or after the release, what is the validity of your comments? The discussion here, regardless of some extraneous observations on buffs and tanks, is about the new effect on targeting and hitting planes in a Osti.
Remember too, there is a balance that must be struck between realism/accuracy to the WWII experience, and the limitations of modeling gameplay online. To a degree, its not always critical (or even desirable) for strict accuracy in historical functionality, if it makes the game nearly unplayable or unenjoyable.
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Sloehand,
Are you finding your comments to still be the case after the 3/30/2006 patch?