Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: cav58d on March 27, 2006, 03:01:32 AM
-
Flew one tonight for the first time since the first week it came out....ITS EVEN MORE LAME THEN I REMEMBER...Can someone please explain to me whats fun about an uber plane like that? Dont you like a challenge? I say no thank you to your lame Spit16, i'll stick with my MK1
ps- I love when a 16 tries to attack me in my MK1 thinking its fresh bait, only to be turned inside of and shot down with 30 seconds =)
-
.... (gatt on his knees) ... where the hell is the "can of worms'" (c) cover ...
-
Mike take that thing into a 5 Vs you or greater and it is all kinds of fun, otherwise your right = numbers or 1 v 1 it is too easy. But then when I'm flying Rook I feel like I'm cheatin since there are always so many around. :D
-
it is uber and should be perked or something i meen i just can't understand how something with clipped wings can turn so well but yet die to my niki so easily hehehe better yet by my 38 every now and then.:D
-
In the first weeks when it came to AH, I thought what the hell ill take it for a spit to see what it can do. Ended up taking off from a capped base, shot down 3 and then started to head home looking at my gas tank and the number of friendlies over the base I was at. Then 7 enemy cons come along and bounce in on me. Sadly all 7 of these pilots had been shot down and I flew away to make it home.
After that 1 sortie I thought wow what a lame plane and needs to be perked.
-
Spit!=Challenge.
-
Even tho the spit XVI is a remarkable plane to fly, I don't think it needs to be perked. It is still just as easy as any other spit to kill.
-
Originally posted by mars01
Even tho the spit XVI is a remarkable plane to fly, I don't think it needs to be perked. It is still just as easy as any other spit to kill.
And as I've said a hundred times. I'd rather see the mob in 16s then LA7s cause the 16 drivers will at least get into the fight and try and turn with you, and they can't outrun everything.
A great stick in a 16 can make it do wonders, but that applies to many AH birds. An average stick in a 16 is just another target who thinks the bird he's flying will make him better and as mentioned, he can't run away in a 16.
-
(http://www.gonzoville.com/share/files/1/Motivators/spit.jpg)
-
I always fly the 16. But now seeing that you all think it's lame, I might start flying something "cooler". Do chicks dig the 205?
-
Sure, the 205 is much cooler. At least, you can learn that flying the Macchi the energy is not free. Chicks love E-management :)
-
Perking ain't necessary, all HT needs to do is change the boast message to read: "So-and-so has landed 3 kills in a Spitfire Mk.XVI. What a dweeb."
-
Even tho the spit XVI is a remarkable plane to fly, I don't think it needs to be perked. It is still just as easy as any other spit to kill.
I agree.
-
Originally posted by SuperDud
Do chicks dig the 205?
With the tiger skin it's the ultimate pimp ride :D
Fill the cockpit with chicks, play rap music and go on a joy ride down town.
Bozon
-
And as I've said a hundred times. I'd rather see the mob in 16s then LA7s cause the 16 drivers will at least get into the fight and try and turn with you, and they can't outrun everything.
AHMEN - Let me hear everyone...
[SIZE=8]Ahmen![/SIZE]
-
I'll still take the Zeke, thank you. Out turns everything in the game, and I love the turn fighting.
Only thing that sucks is that it can't catch anything at all, besides a GV.
-
Originally posted by Arcades057
I'll still take the Zeke, thank you. Out turns everything in the game, and I love the turn fighting.
Only thing that sucks is that it can't catch anything at all, besides a GV.
Your thinking is a bit like the Hurri IIc guys. They'll take that better turning circle and those 4 20mms over speed. And more often then not, the unsuspecting 16 driver, thinking he's in the ride that 'does it all' will get sucked into a turn fight with you and boom, he's dead :)
Just checked. Zeke has 595 Spit 16 kills to 566 kills for the 16 of the Zeke. Kinda speaks volumes about who is flying the Zekes and who is flying the 16s.
Hurri IIcs as an example have 389 Zeke kills to 297 losses to Zekes.
And us poor lowly P38G drivers are 41 kills to 24 deaths to Zekes.
Doesn't make much sense if it's just the plane does it ? :)
LA7 guys will just try and HO you and run for the hills. I'll still take the Spit 16 crowd over that anyday
-
If you really want to impress the chicks, only the Yak-9U will do. Nothing get's 'em hotter than a guy who doesn't need WEP to get going, or Viagra. A lot of people overlook the Yak because of no WEP and the poor ammo load, but it is a fast, fast little plane that is also surprisingly tough and climbs like crazy. If you are patient and accurate, you can get kills in it.
-
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
If you really want to impress the chicks, only the Yak-9U will do. Nothing get's 'em hotter than a guy who doesn't need WEP to get going, or Viagra. A lot of people overlook the Yak because of no WEP and the poor ammo load, but it is a fast, fast little plane that is also surprisingly tough and climbs like crazy. If you are patient and accurate, you can get kills in it.
Yak-9T is better: the size of the gun *is* important!
-
Originally posted by Pei
Yak-9T is better: the size of the gun *is* important!
It ain't the meat ...
-
Pony B seems to handle the spit XVI pretty well also.
I agree that in the right hands the XVI is pretty uber. The caveat to that though, is that the majority who fly it have no idea what it can do for them.
just my $0.02
RTR
-
Well, at least a Spit XVI is usually flown agressively, and that gives a much funnier fight!
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
And as I've said a hundred times. I'd rather see the mob in 16s then LA7s cause the 16 drivers will at least get into the fight and try and turn with you, and they can't outrun everything.
.
Here is a thought. While flying and turning in the spit XVI the noob pilot might actually learn something. As opposed to the la7 noob who HOs and runs 6k out to set up another pass. Try not to slam the XVI pilots so much it might actually help them transition into other rides. All I can say is that it has helped me to do so.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Bronk
Here is a thought. While flying and turning in the spit XVI the noob pilot might actually learn something. As opposed to the la7 noob who HOs and runs 6k out to set up another pass. Try not to slam the XVI pilots so much it might actually help them transition into other rides. All I can say is that it has helped me to do so.
Bronk
Definately not meant as a slam. I'd rather have newbies turning and learning too :)
-
I dont see the unfair advantage in flying a spit 16, guys from the other country have em too.
I really doubt your spit16 is better than the one from the other country, so the argument it is soooo great ride really doesnt count.
-
Dan
I should have worded my post differently. My post was to be more of an add on to your post. No offence taken on my end.
Bronk
-
If every pilot in a spit16 knew what the frak they were doing I'd not have killed several of them (2-3) in a single sortie in a c202 over fighter town last week.
-
WTG Krusty!
-
Originally posted by Krusty
If every pilot in a spit16 knew what the frak they were doing I'd not have killed several of them (2-3) in a single sortie in a c202 over fighter town last week.
Hey! That's only because C.202 is the most beautiful, powerful and uberful (TM) plane of the planeset!
-
i am a newby and love the spits.used to fly spit 9 but swithed to 16 because of the 50 cals.also fly the 8's .have found that the 9 and 8s are just as lethal.evidently it was the cannon after all.the BB guns are just for show.also like the yak,pony,and my newest challeng is the p-40 e.also id like to publicly say to CAV58 that i cant appoligize for hoing you the other nite in fighter town because of the situation.the shot was incredibly lucky.if you recall i slammed right rudder and just got your cockpit,so maybe not a classic ho but a ho nonetheless. i know that no talent was involved and i bow to your rank (i looked it up).but the opportinity was there and i took it.S~ to you and just know i didnt take any real joy in your untimely demise as i said earlier no talent/pure luck.regards,brick31
-
Classy, Coba.
-
Originally posted by cav58d
ps- I love when a 16 tries to attack me in my MK1 thinking its fresh bait, only to be turned inside of and shot down with 30 seconds =)
I am sure that happens a lot, lol.
You want a chalenge? Take a 16 up and engage 3 lalas or a single Ki84. You can create your own chalenges. Nothing lame about the plane. Its the pilits that can make it look like that.
Does it take any skill to cherry all day in a D9?
Ho and run in a lala?
Vulch in 1C?
Cherry in a Tyffi?
etc.
No, but no one said you should fly them that way. It is up to you.
Not to mention that if they are such an easy kill why complain about them? If a Spit 1 can take the so easy, then there must be a chalenge in flying them :D
-
what is up with just about every spit 16 i fight just trying to HO me the entire fight?? Is it just me or this that the lamest move ever. i fly tiffy most of the time that spit in the right hands:) eat me for lunch in every aspect but trying to run away but 7 out 10 times spitty HOs. pathetic if u want my 2 cents
-
Originally posted by RTR
Pony B seems to handle the spit XVI pretty well also.
I agree that in the right hands the XVI is pretty uber. The caveat to that though, is that the majority who fly it have no idea what it can do for them.
just my $0.02
RTR
P-38 is good for killing Spitfires of all types, especially the XVI.
ack-ack
-
the only time i truely enjoy flying the 16 is for base defence. When im out number its a brilliant plane to get up short notice to defend a field. I personally found the KI-84 one of the best toe to toe fighter to kill spits, and LALAs b/c i like its acceleration capiblities
Beamer:rolleyes:
-
well personally i dont care about the spit16 danger wise becuase there always going to fast and just pull up or something now a la7 that plane needs to be perked i mean all it does is run and vulch like a temp and always seems to catch me no matter what. the plane IMO is way more dangerous then a f4u4 or spit14 so im just wondering why the LA7 is not perked.
catfish6
-
Originally posted by ujustdied
well personally i dont care about the spit16 danger wise becuase there always going to fast and just pull up or something now a la7 that plane needs to be perked i mean all it does is run and vulch like a temp and always seems to catch me no matter what. the plane IMO is way more dangerous then a f4u4 or spit14 so im just wondering why the LA7 is not perked.
La-7 is more dangerous than the F4U-4 or Spitfire Mk.XIV? I don't think so.
Both accelerate as fast or faster depending on weight of fuel. Both outclimb the La-7. Both out-turn the La-7. The F4U-4 has a faster rate of roll and Spitfire is about even with the Lavochkin. Both have better high-speed handling and less compressibility issues. Both can kill at ranges where the La-7 can't hope to score hits.
There's only one area where the La-7 has an edge, low level speed. Moreover, it's only a very tiny edge over the F4U-4. Go above 8k and the La-7 loses even that advantage.
My regards,
Widewing
-
umm i think the la7 accelerates alittle faster then the f4u4 plus the f4u only has 50cals thats its down fall. and i think its rate of clime is better too like when you press alt X the la7s gets there much faster
-
Originally posted by ujustdied
umm i think the la7 accelerates alittle faster then the f4u4 plus the f4u only has 50cals thats its down fall. and i think its rate of clime is better too like when you press alt X the la7s gets there much faster
Measured acceleration from 200 mph to 300 mph, 25% fuel, at an altitude of 100 feet:
F4U-4: 28.57 seconds
SpitfireXIV: 28.72 seconds
La-7: 28.78 seconds
In terms of climb, measured from 50 feet to 10,000 feet, starting at 300 mph with 25% fuel, using autoclimb:
SpitfireXIV: 1:47.13
F4U-4: 1:55.67
La-7: 2:06.91
I use 300 mph as the baseline speed because I want to factor in zoom-climb as this is an important factor in combat. Since the F4U-4 will zoom climb from sea level to 3,400 feet, the La-7's better steady climb rate below 3k is completely negated.
The La-7 has an excellent climb rate to 3,000 feet, where it begins degrading rapidly.
On the other hand, the F4U-4, if not flying with full tanks, climbs at a high and steady rate from 3,000 feet up through 15,000 feet. As you likely know, the Spitfire XIV climbs significantly faster than the La-7 at all altitudes.
At sea level, the La-7 is 4-5 mph faster than the Corsair. At 5,000 feet, the La-7 is about 15 mph faster than the F4U-4. AT 8k, they're even. At 10k, the F4U-4 is 6 mph faster. At 10k, the F4U-4 accelerates and climbs considerably better than the La-7.
Also, don't underestimate the six .50 cal gun package. The BMG has superior ballistics to the Soviet 20mm, which means you are more likely to hit your target at 600-800 yards.
Accuracy is the key. A lot of guys fly cannon birds to compensate for lousy gunnery, where a few hits may be fatal. However, a good shot will kill quite effectively with the 6 machine guns. Putting them where they do the most harm is the most important factor.
My regards,
Widewing
-
great info wide.S~
-
Originally posted by Widewing
Measured acceleration from 200 mph to 300 mph, 25% fuel, at an altitude of 100 feet:
F4U-4: 28.57 seconds
SpitfireXIV: 28.72 seconds
La-7: 28.78 seconds
In terms of climb, measured from 50 feet to 10,000 feet, starting at 300 mph with 25% fuel, using autoclimb:
SpitfireXIV: 1:47.13
F4U-4: 1:55.67
La-7: 2:06.91
I use 300 mph as the baseline speed because I want to factor in zoom-climb as this is an important factor in combat. Since the F4U-4 will zoom climb from sea level to 3,400 feet, the La-7's better steady climb rate below 3k is completely negated.
The La-7 has an excellent climb rate to 3,000 feet, where it begins degrading rapidly.
On the other hand, the F4U-4, if not flying with full tanks, climbs at a high and steady rate from 3,000 feet up through 15,000 feet. As you likely know, the Spitfire XIV climbs significantly faster than the La-7 at all altitudes.
At sea level, the La-7 is 4-5 mph faster than the Corsair. At 5,000 feet, the La-7 is about 15 mph faster than the F4U-4. AT 8k, they're even. At 10k, the F4U-4 is 6 mph faster. At 10k, the F4U-4 accelerates and climbs considerably better than the La-7.
Also, don't underestimate the six .50 cal gun package. The BMG has superior ballistics to the Soviet 20mm, which means you are more likely to hit your target at 600-800 yards.
Accuracy is the key. A lot of guys fly cannon birds to compensate for lousy gunnery, where a few hits may be fatal. However, a good shot will kill quite effectively with the 6 machine guns. Putting them where they do the most harm is the most important factor.
My regards,
Widewing
Whats the margin of error on the acceleration times? I'd say at the very least it'd be to close to call.
I'll be in the game again shortly (as soon as my new stick arrives in the mail next week).. I'd happily fight you a few times La-7 vs XXX... me and Leviathn did that in the DA a while back (La-7 vs tempest) because nobody believed me when I said the La-7 was better... the La-7 won every fight (no matter who was flying it).
The La-7 is I think the most under-rated plane in the game, for a fighter. Most people are scared of fighting, so they use it because it is ideal for cherrypicking in X on 1's... but it is a fantastic fighter.
-
Originally posted by Urchin
Whats the margin of error on the acceleration times? I'd say at the very least it'd be to close to call.
I'll be in the game again shortly (as soon as my new stick arrives in the mail next week).. I'd happily fight you a few times La-7 vs XXX... me and Leviathn did that in the DA a while back (La-7 vs tempest) because nobody believed me when I said the La-7 was better... the La-7 won every fight (no matter who was flying it).
The La-7 is I think the most under-rated plane in the game, for a fighter. Most people are scared of fighting, so they use it because it is ideal for cherrypicking in X on 1's... but it is a fantastic fighter.
Always up for a scrum.. Be glad to duel with you.
Acceleration tests were an average of three runs, and none of those 3 runs varied by more than a second.
However, the issue we will invariable run into is that most duels occur a minimal altitude, which is right in the La-7's best envelope. Be that as it may, the F4U-4 is superior to the Tempest as a dogfighter, largely due to its instantaneous turn rate and the ability to dump E quickly. Not to mention those flaps which give you almost hovercraft-like ability.
La-7s are tremendous fighters.... As long as you stay below 5k. I rarely fly it these days, but have always maintained a rediculous K/D in them. These days the Spitfire XVI gives the La-7 all it can handle down low, and the La-5FN is completely outclassed against the "Super Spit" given equal pilots.
My regards,
Widewing
-
This is probably a side-issue, but....
Not to mention those flaps which give you almost hovercraft-like ability.
How sure are you about this one?
The reason I'm asking that is because after the recent patch I seem to be noticing a small but very firm change in how the flaps changes the attitude of the planes. Ironically, the first instance where I seem to have felt the change was with the F4U Corsair. Like you've mentioned, the F4Us from version 1.04 to the previous one, were indeed like 'hovercrafts' as you've mentioned, with full flaps out.
I am pretty sure I know what the USAAF/USN planes can do with their flaps - because my largest gripes, as you would know, were about how 109s with smaller turning radius just couldn't mix-up against US fighters at low speed fights, because the 109s were so seriously unstable and thoroughly incapable of matching the ultra-low speed 'hovering' the US fighters could do with full flaps out. I'm not really adept in flying US planes, but flying against them I've have quite a lot of experience.
However, the I first incident I witnessed was that the F4Us with full flaps out, weren't what they used to be when I was in a test flight in the MA when the new version arrived. I was busy with life, so it was the first time in months that I grabbed a stick. My skill just wasn't up to prime, and I was making sloppy mistakes a lot when I saw an enemy F4U that upped from a CV, clearly intent for a dogfight and not jaboing. He had the higher alt, I was low by about 3,000ft.
The first surprise came when I evaded a few BnZ passes, and the fight changed into a rolling scissors fight. After a failed BnZ pass with insufficient speed to completely get out of my reach, the F4U rolled over and kicked hard rudder into a very tight wing-over style move. Normally, at this point, the 109s couldn't follow it because the loss of control stability prevented it from doing so. And yet, I was able to succeed in it pretty easily, despite my lacking state. This was when I first experienced how improved the 109s were.
Then the typical 'double-helix' type of maneuvering started, where myself and the F4U pilot started a series of matched barrel rolls, each one trying to fly slowest as possible without stalling. Again, this was an inherently dangerous situation for average 109 pilots like me. Instability prevented the 109s from trying this kind of stunt against US fighters with flaps out. The distance was close enough for me, the chasing plane, to visually confirm the F4U was gradually increasing flaps as the fight progressed longer and longer.
Then the second surprise came. Now the distance was very close, inside 200 yards, probably 100 or so, since the distance marker was showing "0". It was one of those situations where I only had to get my pitch up a tiny bit mroe to get a shot in, but trying so would stall my plane. I could very clearly see the very uniquely shaped Corsair flaps spread out to the full. This was the moment of truth - it is usually at this time when the Corsair "floats" with full flaps out, ultra slow flying, hanging by 1 mph or 2 from the stall speed, and still maneuvering in rolls. This is where most planes are forced the overshoot. And yet, it didn't work for the Corsair. It attempted to do so, but all of a sudden, when the flaps were maxed out, the Corsair seemed to drop pitch rapidly, roll to one side, and then crashed to the ground. My guess is that the Corsair stalled at level flight, dropped nose pitch, the pilot increased throttle and pulled the stick back to hold pitch, and it fell under a sudden spin and crashed.
Quite surprised by this, I upped a F4U of my own and started some test maneuvers. What I experienced was that now, the first notch or two of flaps, immediately after being deployed, gives up a much higher nose-up movement than before. But as my turn tightened, trying for the tightest turn possible, I went to full flaps... and then realized full flaps made the plane feel really heavy. It felt like there was something that's holding the plane back - and my guess was that the amount of drag force due to the flaps, have become much higher.
I was able to manage a full-flap, very tight turn with full throttle and ADI(wep), but when I tried a full-flap turn with half throttle, like the F4Us could do before(which almost feels like you're in a helicopter, changing heading while hovering...), it stalled out. It felt like the lack of thrust wasn't enough to overcome the amount of drag the fully spread flaps were giving out.. the plane got really heavy and unresponsive in control.. and then wanted to crash itself.
A bit intrigued by thus, I came to the BBS and found out that P-38 pilots were complaining that their Lightnings became pigs. So I tested the P-38s out and indeed, they just couldn't hold a well-enough turn when it reached full flap status. I quickly tested it out with the P-47s and P-51s too, and it seems this supposed "effect" was also in works with these planes.
Then just today, I met a pretty good P-51 pilot in combat. I won't name him, but he's a good vet around from AH1 days. The P-51 went into a tight loop, I tried to follow in a Bf109G-14. And at the top of the loop, I saw the P-51 wasn't moving anymore. Normally, in the previous versions, this was the moment where the 109 would be decisively outmaneuverd. A low-speed tight loop, the P-51 goes full flaps and finished the loop quickly, the 109 destabilizes and can't follow, and the tables are turned. I was expecting the same thing to happen, cursing my incompetent judgement, when I saw the P-51 "pigged out" on me. At the top of the loop it seemed to just stop moving, as my plane nosed up, the distance closing now to within 100 yards, I saw the P-51 with full flaps out - unable to make any kind of movement in that state.
Now, I am very, very convinced, that the US planes lost a lot of the "stability" they boasted over planes like the 109 - the very issue I complained so often about. Although the effect is probably global, since Pyro said it was so, I'm guessing that it effected two groups of the planes mostly. The ones that were unbelievably unstable, and the ones that were unbelievably stable.
So, I'm not sure if the F4U now has such an easy advantage in low-speed maneuvering over the La-7. It still can dump E way faster than most planes, so the instantaneous turn would be superior... but once the speeds deteriorate to under 300mph, it just won't be able to do the "low-speed hover" trick with those flaps anymore - at least, definately not as easily as they used to.
-
The La-7 out-turns the F4U4, Spit14 and Spit16. Of course most La-7 pilots just fly with open throttle, and the La-7's speed acts against it in a turn fight.
Most fighters outperform the La-7 at medium-high altitude, no argument there.
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
A bit intrigued by thus, I came to the BBS and found out that P-38 pilots were complaining that their Lightnings became pigs. So I tested the P-38s out and indeed, they just couldn't hold a well-enough turn when it reached full flap status. I quickly tested it out with the P-47s and P-51s too, and it seems this supposed "effect" was also in works with these planes.
Don't know what thread that was. The P-38 is still as deadly now as it was before the patch. I don't recall any of the veteran P-38 drivers in here complaining how the P-38 becoming a "pig". Kappa and I had a discussion about this the day the patch came out and we were testing our planes out. We came to the conclusion that the P-38 wasn't neutered and more care had to be taken when to use full flaps. For those of that know how to properly use the flaps in the P-38, nothing has changed.
ack-ack
-
haha i would disagree with you on that the f4u4 IMO is one of the best turn fighters in the game. i can win just about any fight in them plus i know a spit16 can easily out turn them. ok but now why is the f4u1c perked.
i know i know its cannons but this plane is no f4u4 or la7 i bet a la7 could beat that plane in climb and speed period. also the f4u1c IMO is really that exact same thing as a n1k2 just a little faster.
-
Originally posted by Schwein
The La-7 out-turns the F4U4, Spit14 and Spit16. Of course most La-7 pilots just fly with open throttle, and the La-7's speed acts against it in a turn fight.
Most fighters outperform the La-7 at medium-high altitude, no argument there.
In terms of turn performance, the La-7 is virtually identical to the Bf 109G-2 in rate and radius. The SpitXVI owns both of them in any kind of a turning fight. As for the SpitXIV, it out-turns the La-7 going left, and they're about equal going right.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Don't know what thread that was. The P-38 is still as deadly now as it was before the patch. I don't recall any of the veteran P-38 drivers in here complaining how the P-38 becoming a "pig". Kappa and I had a discussion about this the day the patch came out and we were testing our planes out. We came to the conclusion that the P-38 wasn't neutered and more care had to be taken when to use full flaps. For those of that know how to properly use the flaps in the P-38, nothing has changed.
You and kappa aren't the only P-38 pilots around.
Nor did anyone claim anything was 'neutered'.
-
Then show the post were the P-38 drivers were complaining about the P-38 being a "pig".
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Then show the post were the P-38 drivers were complaining about the P-38 being a "pig".
ack-ack
Some of the guys are saying it's changed. All I fly is the G and the only thing I noticed was it didn't want to get off the ground like it used to with full fuel and DTs, and a couple notch of flaps to get up in a hurry. It just dragged along the runway until I punched off the tanks and eased off the flaps.
I'd done that short field take off a million times before and it jumped right up but that was pre patch.
As for anything else, the 38G still does what it needs to for me. Still flapping slow in the turns too when things get desperate down low :)
-
Post 2.07 I took a 38G up on a whim. I'd had some success before. I'm no 38 expert but I can get kills in it. Anyways, I was unable to turn tightly at all. I got into a flat turn with a LOT of enemy cons, and couldn't turn at all. I was dumping flaps out like I used to and it was just KILLING me. THen it killed me :lol
So it's changed (flaps, that is). For the better, but yes there was a change.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Post 2.07 I took a 38G up on a whim. I'd had some success before. I'm no 38 expert but I can get kills in it. Anyways, I was unable to turn tightly at all. I got into a flat turn with a LOT of enemy cons, and couldn't turn at all. I was dumping flaps out like I used to and it was just KILLING me. THen it killed me :lol
So it's changed (flaps, that is). For the better, but yes there was a change.
Are you saying this has shown up with other birds as well? As in anyone in a low and slow turn fight will now not be able to flap it at all? Combat flaps shouldn't make a turn worse.
Again, I've not noticed it in the 38G outside of the take off bit, but clearly folks are feeling it different in the 38.
How do you see it as for the better? Just curious
-
Then show the post were the P-38 drivers were complaining about the P-38 being a "pig".
You obviously don't seem to remember some of the threads in General Discussions that you yourself participated in, before I posted about it, do you? (and no, I'm not mentioning Raptor's post) Or maybe it's just that you just don't consider anyone else as "P-38 pilots" who has a say in these matters, other than you yourself.
Are you saying this has shown up with other birds as well? As in anyone in a low and slow turn fight will now not be able to flap it at all? Combat flaps shouldn't make a turn worse.
Again, I've not noticed it in the 38G outside of the take off bit, but clearly folks are feeling it different in the 38.
Guppy,
Pyro specifically mentions that the change in the FM is a global issue, not individual plane tweaking. Therefore, technically, this tendency is manifesting itself with all planes - albeit at varying degrees. That being said, I do feel a certain degree of change with all planes - even the 109s or 190s which people generally agree in the fact that the change was for the better. If the change is indeed about the amount of drag increased with high-level of flap deployment as some people deduce, then logically, the planes with heavier weight would indeed be feeling more hits than the lighter and more nimble ones.
Another tendency I do notice is that the first notch of flaps deployed as soon as the plane's indicated air speed comes down to permitted levels, lifts the pitch of the plane much more higher than it used to in previous versions. If what I'm experiencing is not just placebo, then that would mean the initial gain in lift with the first notch(combat position) is higher than it used to be. The efficiency of flaps in combat position, therefore, is actually higher than it used to be. However, the detrimental effect to airspeed, as flap positions are steadily lowered, seem to be what's taking a real hit.
Now, a certain mister "I'm the only 38 pilot around" might dismiss what I'm saying, since to him I obviously am not qualified to come up with any kind of opinions on "his plane"...
...but as I understand many P-38 pilots in the game rely on not only the first 'combat position' of flaps but also the higher stages of deployment. A typical way of things would be a P-38, when it grabs hold of the rear-end of a target plane, would try and turn with it. As the turn tightens he would deploy the first notch. The problem they now face is that when the first notch is obviously not enough - should they not hesitate to progressively increase the level of deployment until landing positions are reached, like they once were able to do in the previous versions?
Like you said, 'combat flaps' should not make a plane turn worse. But what happens if you go over the combat position and pull it down to the max? Would a 17,000lbs plane be able to overcome the amount of drag created by full deployemnt of landing flaps for the entirety of the combat turn? Perhaps, being able to outurn planes weighing in at 7,500lbs with a 17,000lbs plane, at 110mph with full flaps out, was wrong.
At least I always did think so.
-
Originally posted by Widewing
In terms of turn performance, the La-7 is virtually identical to the Bf 109G-2 in rate and radius. The SpitXVI owns both of them in any kind of a turning fight. As for the SpitXIV, it out-turns the La-7 going left, and they're about equal going right.
My regards,
Widewing
Not in my experience, but your mileage may vary.
-
The La-7 has turned about as well as a G-2 for as long as I've been playing. Maybe slightly better, but close enough so that I'd say they were comparable.
The Spit 14 is one of the worse turning spits, I'd go with an La-7 turning with it without to much argument.
The Spit 16 should handily outmanuever an La-7, it will just about manuever with a Ki-84, and a Ki-84 will definately outmanuever an La-7.
-
"But what happens if you go over the combat position and pull it down to the max? Would a 17,000lbs plane be able to overcome the amount of drag created by full deployemnt of landing flaps for the entirety of the combat turn?"
Good point. For some time ago I started wondering about what kind of effects flaps have on turning and why. The flaps can be deceptive in turning because when you deploy them slightly while pulling AoA they increase the drag slightly and at the same time alter the profile of the lifting surface to provide more lift. What this does to maximun permissible AoA depends on wing profile and flap type and its angle of deployment.
What really happens if you keep the AoA constant in a tight turn and start deploying flaps notch by notch? I'm not a pilot IRL so I don't really know, but if the fully (or nearly fully) deployed flaps start to have a detrimental effect on turning that is what I expect to happen.
What may make them deceptive is the way they are used in AH. In turnfight down they go notch by notch and as the speed goes down too their combined effect with too much AoA gets the turn rate really low. I would expect the max permissible AoA with fully deployed flaps to be very low.
So it is not the fault of flaps that you lose ground in turnfigth but the way of thinking that the flaps could make your plane do something it can't do.
-C+
-
Hm... The use of the flaps means that the same Cl can be reached at lower AoA and in some cases with lower drag (if the speed is low enough).
gripen
-
I'm not sure what's up. I was in a SpitXVI last night and saw an F4, can't remember what model specifically, but merged, and at the top of the vertical, about 200 off, watched the bandit. Flaps were full out, gear was down, engine was off, and then he was behind me. Didn't matter what I did, simply could not force an overshoot. I died.
Got a new SpitXVI, told Urchin I'd brb, and got some E. Snuck up on him, got noticed about 400 out as he reversed. There he goes again, engine off again, flaps down, gear down, and I was 10 pixels from a gun solution when he turned out of the way... needed 5mph more to get a shot. A slow speed scissors and he was behind me, again. I died.
Got my third SpitXVI up, went straight for him. Good merge, made a few head on passes, took some high angle deflection shots at each other, and wound up fighting for a few minutes this time. Same move, engine/flaps/gear, and he won the angles. I was extending away to figure out the next exchange, staring at the 6 view with him chasing me... then I found a hill... with my face.
And people are telling me you can't get USN aircraft to hover? Ask Urchin. He beat me up, took my lunch money, and did it without a throttle.
Urchin01 btw, best set of fights I've had in weeks.
-
Wouldn't worry Indy, gear down and engine off is about as gamey as you can get, and surprised Urchin did it.
I defy anyone to show me ONE combat report of a pilot killing his engine and/or dropping his gear during a fight.
Its a technique (I use that word loosely) that needs some kind of limit or stop put on it.
Game is rapidly developing into a "how much can I exploit flaws in the FM".
-
dot know about single seaters but in the beaufighter there are some descriotions in a book about night fighters where they droped flaps and ear to keep behind the german bomber so they didnt over shoot.
i cant remeber the book but it was by or about one of the british night fghter aces in beaufigthers
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Wouldn't worry Indy, gear down and engine off is about as gamey as you can get, and surprised Urchin did it.
I defy anyone to show me ONE combat report of a pilot killing his engine and/or dropping his gear during a fight.
Its a technique (I use that word loosely) that needs some kind of limit or stop put on it.
Game is rapidly developing into a "how much can I exploit flaws in the FM".
Well he had no throttle, and that was the only way to cut power, so gamey or not, I would be doing it too in his shoes. To me it looked like he'd throttled back anyways, I didn't know until after the second fight.
Gaming has always been about the numbers. On a MUD I played for years, I could do an 8man run solo. On WoW, 40man raids can be done by 8. In IL2 people know at exactly with mph flaps will jam at and can pull some crazy high g turns because of it. In Battletech you can field Gausszilla (and they will die). In here it's taking a plane to the edge of the envelope you wouldn't ever do in combat. Not the supposed impossible (or as I like, improbable), just stuff that would get you killed in RL. I dunno.. just doesn't seem nearly as uber as real exploits to me =P Either way, it looked cool even when he was shooting me down, and I had alot of fun.
-
Thing is easily fixed -
No turning off engine when off the ground. (or at least a chance it won't restart)
Pitch / roll limits on gear deployment.
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Thing is easily fixed -
No turning off engine when off the ground. (or at least a chance it won't restart)
Pitch / roll limits on gear deployment.
Gear out on the F4U is a sign the dive flaps or being used. I've seen film of F4Us dropping ord, in Korea I think, where the gear was down on the run in.
-
Originally posted by indy007
And people are telling me you can't get USN aircraft to hover? Ask Urchin. He beat me up, took my lunch money, and did it without a throttle.
This past Wednesday evening, we had a pretty capable group in the TA. They included Murdr, BatfinkV, Pooface, Infensus (Bighorn's latest shade), TC and later, Creton.
We were playing around with F4Us. P-38s and Spits.
I worked my F4U-1D onto the tail of Pooface's Spit V and try as he might, there was no getting that Corsair off.. For several minutes we flew just about every maneuver one can imagine and the F4U was able to stay glued to the Spitfire, right up to and including augering immediately after Pooface. The F4U IS that good. Later we both flew Dhogs had a ball taking turns hosing each other. It is simply insane what you can do with any F4U. However, the F4U-4 can do the same stuff, but do it going straight up....
Creton and I flew the F4U-1D vs the F6F-5. It's a very even fight until you both get dead slow with full flaps hanging out... At this point the F4U owns the F6F. No, it's not historical, but it is how it works out in the game. Once slow, I could not work the F6F into a firing solution on Creton's Hog, and he eventually gained the advantage.
Stall fighting P-38G vs F4U-1D... I had a P-38G, Infensus the Dhog... Slight edge to the Lightning. If I could have used full flaps, I think the G would have had a bigger advantage. As it was, I generally worked back and forth between two and four notches. However, switch to heavier P-38J and the Dhog wins, consistantly, regardless of which one of us flew the Corsair. This was largely due to current (as of the last update) drag induced instability which hurts the later the P-38s more than the G model because they rely more on deep flaps (when's the fix coming, Pyro?).
Anyone who underestimates the F4U will eventually get burned by someone who knows how to use it. Running into someone like Urchin or someone with his level of ability will be an educational experience not soon forgotten.
As to the SpitXVI... Probably the best E fighter in the game.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Gear out on the F4U is a sign the dive flaps or being used. I've seen film of F4Us dropping ord, in Korea I think, where the gear was down on the run in.
Vought engineered the gear specifically to be used as a dive brake. The Dive Brake handle lowered the main gear, but not the tail wheel. F4UDOA can better elaborate on that more than I can.
I do know that the pilot's manual states that maximum gear extension speed is 300 mph IAS, and max retraction speed is 400 mph IAS. The gear also induced a marked pitch down attitude.
It short, it's not gamey to use the F4U's gear as a dive brake, because that's exactly what it was designed for.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Wouldn't you say there a difference between a 'dive brake' and using it as some kind of 'combat flap'?
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Wouldn't you say there a difference between a 'dive brake' and using it as some kind of 'combat flap'?
Thats the joy if it being a game with no real loss of life. That's why guys will go full flaps in a furball, or kick out the dive brake as a combat flap.
If it was really life or death I doubt folks would give up the speed, but since it isn't and you get a new plane and life if you die, folks take it that much further. Not sure what you could do to change that or if you'd really want to
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Thats the joy if it being a game with no real loss of life. That's why guys will go full flaps in a furball, or kick out the dive brake as a combat flap.
If it was really life or death I doubt folks would give up the speed, but since it isn't and you get a new plane and life if you die, folks take it that much further. Not sure what you could do to change that or if you'd really want to
In ma yup I'd drop gear, but if in a fso or some such only for a last option.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Wouldn't you say there a difference between a 'dive brake' and using it as some kind of 'combat flap'?
Well, the F4U had a "Combat" flap setting as well. Nonetheless, if I absolutely, positively must slow down right now... Down go the gear.
Why not take advantage of the capability? Just because few, if any used it in WWII is irrelevant; the capability was there and available if need be.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Wow ... I hadn't tried the F4U since the update ... the -1D is real nice now. Crisp roll rate even at lower speeds, predictable stall, and you can push the plane. The -1 felt pretty unstable, though, by comparison.
I may have to do a tour in the -1D and -1C when I have time again.
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
I defy anyone to show me ONE combat report of a pilot killing his engine and/or dropping his gear during a fight.
I'm out of town now, or I'd type it in.
If you have Caldwell's "JG26," read about Mietusch's (spelling may be bad) (first name was Klaus, I think) final fight. He was the one of the Gruppe's highest scoring pilots, was commander of its 109 contingent. He died in a long fight against a US pilot flying a 51, who had his gear extended when Mietusch tried to force the overshoot. Very AH-like.
You may call Urchin many things, but "gamey" shouldn't be one of them.
- oldman
-
Lol, thanks..?
Actually, if my throttle was working I wouldn't cut engine. Just throttle all the way back, which as far as I know slows you down at the same rate as turning the engine off.
As far as the dropping gear, I only ever do it in the F4U.. it did have the aforementioned "speed brake" (gear doors anyway) so I don't think it is "gamey".
-
I was challenged to the DA today by a spit16 driver.His exact words were"I'll beat a DHOG all day long ina spit16".
First fight went like this,I merged at 375mph in the dhog and immediatley went for the pitchback and droped 3 notches fo flaps,I beat him at the top of the merge easily as he wasnt expecting me to try and turn fight him,and hadnt blown his E.At the top I punched some more flaps and pulled it on over the top 200ft before we intersected,he realised my move and tried to counter by going up at an angle,I then rolled out all the flaps and hung on the prop as he fluttered on by my gun sight, ratattatatat tat and spit goes "BOOM!!.
Second fight was a little different ,I knew he would be ready for my hard merge so I came in at my usual 375-400 mph merge,I went for a hard flat turn and he went up over the top ,as I came out of turn I started to climb slightly just as he was comeing over the top and droping on me,I knew he would chop throttle to prevent the over shoot,so I rolled it straight up and went full flaps ,this put me in a vert climb ,doing around 225mph ,as he went under my tail .I pulled a little right rudder to make it fall towards him.He countered by pulling up, thus we started the scissors,I knew that he was haveing trouble staying aloft because of the slow speed ,as we scissored I just kept the flaps out went going up but would start to retract them on the down slope,to help gain a little more E each time we intersected,I then began to pull a little more vertical on each scissors ,but not enough to flop stall the dhog,I believ this is a high yoyo with out the twist at the top,the 16 was unable to continuously pull vertical,even the slightest ,and after 6-7 scissors I had him front of me,ratatatatat tat BOOM!!!
While I am just considered average in dogfighting,my OPPONITE, whom I will not name, is considered by many to be the better fighter,in any plane.
This is merely to point out that the all "UBER" spit16,while being an amazing a/c without a doubt ,is still very beatable by the new and improved dhog.
Later in the day I was challnged by yet another pilot,who was a squadie to the previous one ,and had heard of our fight.He intered the DA believing that the spit 16 was unbeatable and left flying the dhog.
I have, since 2002, primarily flown the 109's and in particular the 109g2.My squadie dared me to fly allied for a whole tour just for fun ,so I picke dthe dhog and this is my first tour to fly it ,I must admit ,it is a very capable a/c and I will probably fly it more.Even after the tour is finished.
-
That is something I'd have to see to believe.
Mind going over to the DA with me? I may not be the best game in town (especially w/o a throttle) but I also think that the Spit 16 should be more than a match for the F4U.
-
Originally posted by Urchin
That is something I'd have to see to believe.
Mind going over to the DA with me? I may not be the best game in town (especially w/o a throttle) but I also think that the Spit 16 should be more than a match for the F4U.
I would be glad to go.I'm sure your a better pilot than the one I fought.
Look me up sometime when I'm on.I will be there or the TA tonight with my squadies doing some practice,feel free to drop in.
-
In AH the F4U is a Navy Spitfire.
-
Well I did meet Creton and Widewing in the TA for some Spit 16 vs F4U action.
Here is what I think (still). Given equal pilots, the Spit 16 should win.
I *think* I landed the first "kill shot" in every fight (f4U vs Spit 16). I'm not 100% positive, and it is tough because you have to guess if you would have killed him or not. The one time I missed, Creton would have killed me with his shot.
As far as the fight goes, if you are in the Spit 16 you should use the vertical. I tend to do that in any plane thats got a lot of power and can climb slow, but it works well in the Spit 16.
The F4U seems to be able to pull a flat turn about as good as the Spit 16 (turn radii seem similar, and time around the circle seems similar).
If the F4U gets behind the Spit 16, the Spit will probably die if the F4U is a good shot. If the Spit manages to turn hard enough to turn the fight back into a stalemate, then it can retract flaps and stop turning hard. Let the F4U keep turning hard while you get speed up to ~160, and start doing hi yoyos, and eventually you will be able to come over the top behind the F4U.
-
Originally posted by Urchin
Well I did meet Creton and Widewing in the TA for some Spit 16 vs F4U action.
Here is what I think (still). Given equal pilots, the Spit 16 should win.
Agreed..
The Dhog can turn with the Spit16 (slightly better IMHO). However, at around 110 mph, the Spit can get the nose up and keep it up, whereas the Dhog simply lacks the grunt to follow for very long. Nonetheless, Creton, you or me would own the average Spit16 driver in the MA while flying the Dhog.
What the F4U needs is another 300- 400 hp.... Oh yeah, we have one of those. The F4U-4...
We saw that the F4U-4 can follow the Spit16 through any maneuver it can manage... Now, getting on the Spitfire's six is another matter... But once in its rear hemisphere, the Spit is in trouble. Unlike the Dhog, we saw that the 4hog can follow the Spit16 in the vertical.
Anyway, I've got lots of film and tomorrow I"ll post some snippets. There was some really good flying going on.
You know, I think we both forgot about the F4U-4/La-7 match-up.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Great fun, URCHIN.
Great flying,Very nice E management and keeping it going vert.I found that the dhog once slow enough couldnt get the nose up fast enough for the shot.
I think the spit16 has a slight edge on the initial merge but was still very close at the top of the merge.I would like to see someone who is very good in each plane go against each other.Your a higher calibre and more advanced pilot than myself and it's a great learner to go against better sticks,great show of class and cheching egos at the door. You redeemed the spit16 alittle as far as I was concerned.
It is an amazing a/c as I stated earlier.I'll be back on tonight if you'd like to practice some more .
-
I have been out of the MA for a while but the last time I stuck my head in I was able to out turn a Spit 16 in a sustained turn to the left in the F4U-1D with full flaps deployed.
I frankly do not know enough about the Spit 16 we have in AH to tell if this is anywhere close to historically accurate.
One thing for sure it seems as if the more experiance the pilot has in the F4U the better it becomes probably more than most A/C in AH because you can do "tricks" in it IE burn E in a horizontal sissors, drop gear at high speed, dive to very high mach numbers without augering and pull sick G's at low speeds if only for an instant as well as deploy Combat type flaps as low speeds to decrease turn radius.
How historic is our F4U and or turning ability with with/without flaps?
The additional drag of full flaps was mostly induced drag (Cdi) or drag from lift at low speeds and helped takeoff ability tremendously increasing climb/acceleration. But when you got to climb speeds of 150MPH the use of full flaps would have added too much drag to assist in climb and would have slowed the airplane hurting climb/acceleration.
So the question is at what speed do flaps begin to hurt performance and that depends on the power curve of the F4U-1 R2800-8W which was optimized for carrier takeoff and waveoff at low speed and full flap.
Here are some test to determine if the F4U has too much lift/power at low speed.
This is some baseline flight envelope data from the F4U-1D NAVAIR/Vought/POH data.
1. The max deployable speed for full flaps in the F4U-1D is 130Knots IAS 132Knots CAS or 152MPH TAS.
2. The stall speed power off of the F4U-1D full flap is 89MPH at 12,061LBS from Vought or 87.5MPH at 12,175LBS from NAVAER. Roughly the same at a full load.
3. The takeoff distance at Mil power 54"full flap is 650FT at 12,000LBS
4. The stall speed power on 23"MAP 2400RPM is 66Knots IAS/ 63Knots CAS or 72.5MPH at 11,300LBS
5. No flaps, power off 2G stall is 110KnotsIAS/CAS or 126MPH at 12,000lbs
FYI, The F4U POH reccomends entering a loops or Immelmans at speeds of 280Knots or better until pilot is experianced. However the Spitfire IX is nearly the same at 260Knots for loops 295Knots for immelmans. The Spit XIV is even higher at 320-350MPH for Loops and 350-400MPH for Immelmans.
IMHO if anything is overdone it is virtical ability and not horizontal turning.
-
I promised some films, so here's two from the F4U-1D vs Spit16 party we held in the TA and one of the F4U-4 clinging to the Spit16 like a lazy relative.
The first film begins with Urchin turning onto my low six after he dueled Creton's 109G-2. As I watched him swing in behind, I realized that the fight was on. The only plane pinged was the Spitfire (looked like minor hits).. I eventually augered pushing the Hog too hard.
The second film was more of a classic merge. We maneuvered into an HO, Urchin fired, I didn't. Some minor pings. Next sequence is the Spitfire getting hosed. Eventually, the Spit16's better vertical performance prevails and I get hosed a couple of times.
The last film shows me flying an F4U-4 following Urchin's Spit16. He and Creton were dueling and I made like his shadow. You will see that the F4U-4 is an awesome airplane, which I have long considered the best prop fighter in the plane set, bar none.
We flew additional fights, and I managed to auger an F4U-4...pushing too hard again.
One great thing about these duels.. Everyone had fun. In most cases, the better airplane prevailed as the pilots were all very evenly matched. There was no whining, complaining or excuses. Just a group of guys having a good time. Urchin doesn't have a throttle yet. So, he flew "on the magneto", forced to toggle the engine to chop power. I don't think it gave him an advantage, and may have been a handicap.
All films are zipped...
Urchin-Widewing1 (http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/Urchin-Widewing1.zip)
Urchin-Widewing2 (http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/Urchin-Widewing2.zip)
Gull Wing Shadow (http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/TheShadow.zip)
My regards,
Widewing
-
Widewing
and thanx for posting. Seeing stuff like this gives me something to shoot for. (pun intended)
Bronk
-
I would actually like to have some practice with you guys. I still have my account, but no longer play as fights got too rare for the time investments.
I know I am rusty, and was never on your level, but I'd have fun trying to shake off some of the rust.
My prefered fighter mount is the Spit VIII, though I was trying out the Bf109G-14 at the end.
-
I'd be happy to Karnak, I'll probably be busy this weekend though. I may be able to squeeze in a couple fights.
Saitek is still jerking me around on the stick I bought though. It was supposed to have shipped last Tuesday, the 11th... I called and was informed they were going to ship it out this past Tuesday the 19th, and I should recieve it by Thursday. The girl said something about all the orders getting messed up last week.
Thursday's come and gone, odds are good I won't get it till next week.
-
Originally posted by Urchin
I'd be happy to Karnak, I'll probably be busy this weekend though. I may be able to squeeze in a couple fights.
Saitek is still jerking me around on the stick I bought though. It was supposed to have shipped last Tuesday, the 11th... I called and was informed they were going to ship it out this past Tuesday the 19th, and I should recieve it by Thursday. The girl said something about all the orders getting messed up last week.
Thursday's come and gone, odds are good I won't get it till next week.
If this continues much longer, I have a spare, used X45 stick and throttle boxed up in my garage loft. Everything works, it's just well used. PM me if they jerk you around much longer.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Urchin,
Thanks. Actually next week would be better for me as well. I have a lot of homework from the english class I am taking that I need to get done. Stuff all due next Wednesday.
-
Originally posted by Karnak
I would actually like to have some practice with you guys. I still have my account, but no longer play as fights got too rare for the time investments.
I know I am rusty, and was never on your level, but I'd have fun trying to shake off some of the rust.
My prefered fighter mount is the Spit VIII, though I was trying out the Bf109G-14 at the end.
I'm in the TA three or four nights a week. Creton is a regular lately as is Batfink, and you can usually find Infensus (Bighorn2) in there during the evening. Badboy is the trainer who is usually in the TA during daytime hours and Schatzi helps out during that time of day too.
As for trainers, Murdr, Ghosth and Ren are in the TA almost every evening, joined by Hammer, TC, Silat and Soda.
Any of these guys can help you knock off the rust.
You are always welcome to join us.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Hey all.. It's good ol' annoying Paps back toask more questions! Hope you all don't mind. I was reading up about the Spit XVI and one site said that the 16 had wing tanks in adition to the 85 gal. main. IS this true? If it is, does that mean it could fly over 1,180 mi. like the Mk.VIII? Searched everywhere, so far, not many sources talk about the 16's range.
thanks! -cheers-
-
Same reason most N1K2s are easy, most are flown by noobs who can only HO and dive at a base to do a 500mph vulch run.
-
Originally posted by SgtPappy
Hey all.. It's good ol' annoying Paps back toask more questions! Hope you all don't mind. I was reading up about the Spit XVI and one site said that the 16 had wing tanks in adition to the 85 gal. main. IS this true? If it is, does that mean it could fly over 1,180 mi. like the Mk.VIII? Searched everywhere, so far, not many sources talk about the 16's range.
thanks! -cheers-
Nope. 16 was same as the Spit IX. Like the IX at one point they added a fuselage tank but that was rare and towards the very end of the war
The 16 is the way it should be
VIII had the wing tanks as it was designated for overseas use. XIV had em too.
-
Well, as noted elsewhere the AH XVI is technically a LF IX; the 2nd FTH should be higher for the Merlin 266 than for the Merlin 66 (the difference being around 1500ft, not a big issue).
gripen
-
Originally posted by SAS_KID
it is uber and should be perked or something i meen i just can't understand how something with clipped wings can turn so well but yet die to my niki so easily hehehe better yet by my 38 every now and then.:D
Niki outturns spit 16.
-
And as for spits, HTC ADD the 90 and 60 GALLON DROP TANKS!!!
-
spifire 16 does not turn tight enough for me to fly it.
-
Originally posted by duh
spifire 16 does not turn tight enough for me to fly it.
:huh
-
well, i was fliping through the channels, and I ran into this thing called spitfire ace, there supposed to simulate what it would have been like to train and fly during ww2. BUt when the showed the guy that was going to fly the spit, for some reason i said"what a dweeb".:lol
-
Hi,
i miss the bad stall/spin behaviour of the CW Spit. Its fast, thats ok, it climb good, thats also ok, it roll good that for sure ok, but to make it a super forgiven stall fighter is against what i did read. Same like the La7, F4U(no matter which), Temp and Typhoon, i realy wonder where the incredible e-storage comes from. Planes like the 190īs, P47īs, which had more weight(inertia) and same or more power(than the Spit) lose much more energy while a smooth upzoom out of highspeed.
The Spit16, like the La7, F4U-4 and Temp are in no way energy fighters in AH, they are incredible powerplanes, the pilot dont need to take care for his stage of energy. If he get attacked by a higher 190, P47 or P51 he only need to gain a bit speed, barrelroll, then he is almost same fast behind the former faster enemy, every turn of the enemy bring you fast closer, so that the enemy only can use its speed to run for distance. Only if the attacker is close to supersonic he can gain alt for the next attack, but then its almost impossible to gain a kill.
In this relation the Spit16 is less lame than the La7, Temp and F4U, at least i can outrun a Spit16 in most cases, same like the Ki84. ;)
Energy fights in fighters like the 190s, P51, P47 or P40 simply dont work vs this powerplanes, which hang on their props like a heli. Even the mighty Spit14 looks poor in this relation.
No comment to the super US flaps. :rolleyes:
Anyway, what would the rookis do without very good planes?? Real good pilots dont use this planes very often cause its pretty boring after some time and rookis need this planes to keep their fun up.
Maybe the perk system should work the other way around. As better the pilot as less good planes are available. :D
Land a plane with more than 6 kills per default ammoload and the plane will get dissabled for you. :D
Greetings,
-
Whats wrong with the 16? I fly it because its the best weapon for main in the game. Handles E very well and can go toe to toe with anything in the hanger. Its the one plane that i can E fight and turn with a zeke. Does this make me a worse pilot i dont think so. Creton has the da down and his f4u is a monster in the da under the perfect merge. The 16 stands out in main with its great climb and guns. I feel better with people above me because with some time and great moves i can take that adv away and kill. Any plane with a good pilot can be uber all it takes is some practice.
-
Originally posted by bkbandit
well, i was fliping through the channels, and I ran into this thing called spitfire ace, there supposed to simulate what it would have been like to train and fly during ww2. BUt when the showed the guy that was going to fly the spit, for some reason i said"what a dweeb".:lol
What other a/c besides the Hurrie was available for the time period in GB? The time period being BoB.
-
that flap/stall thing had an impact on all planes, get out of your 38 sometimes :noid
-
Originally posted by MiloMorai
What other a/c besides the Hurrie was available for the time period in GB? The time period being BoB.
wat?