Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: EN4CER on March 27, 2006, 02:27:58 PM
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I would categorize most players in this game as either “Realists” or “Enthusiasts.” The Realists want everything as real as it can be (No fun allowed here sometimes) and the Enthusiasts consider Aces High what it is – a GAME and play for fun. I would tend to think that there are more Enthusiasts than Realists. I’m an Enthusiast, I play for fun, and I do enjoy GVs more than I do flying. I’ve seen a few threads complaining about the new “Headshake” feature. I do like realism of the game but to a degree. What concerns me here regarding this new feature is BALANCE. Sometimes at a base (Especially GV Base) the only defense against an Air Attack is OSTIs and M16s. With the new “Headshake” feature many OSTI GVers are not achieving the success rate they are used too, becoming frustrated, thus leaving the VH Bases more vulnerable to air attack. The end results are different now, in some scenarios where a small group of OSTIs might be able to hold of an impending attack until support or ground help arrives is no longer viable. The scales have been tipped to Air Power in my humble opinion. I have the utmost respect for the HiTech staff and am grateful for their time and efforts. I know changes come with every patch and we all have to adjust with the changes. I don’t mind the challenge that comes with the changes provided it doesn’t affect the BALANCE that has been established in the GAME.
Personally the new feature has not really affected my OSTI game. Instead of 9 – 10 kills on a good sortie I’m getting 6-7. But it is a little disheartening to hear players giving up entirely in them though which leads to less chance for a defensive effort in an OSTI when it counts the most. What was once the best tool in the hangar for a specific task may be left parked to collect dust. I know most of the fighter jocks are content because of this new dilemma. They can vulch now uncontested from the ground and swarm over VH Bases waving with glee. I’m more curious as to what the ground pounders (GV Community) really thinks.
Just a quick poll to see if you are IN FAVOR of or NOT IN FAVOR of the new “Headshake” feature when gunning. Pass the word.
Because of the reasons I have stated above I am NOT IN FAVOR.
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we have headshake hmm didnt even notice
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You know how I feel about it :mad:
But I'm a tard, ppffttt
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honestly i think its great, but not as vital as the stall buffet. Its been a week and i would hate to fly without it. everything has worked towards more realism with absolutely no detraction from the gamers fun.
of course only in my opinion.
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agreed, it seems more of a raddle or tremble then so to say recoil. I think it should be a muzzle jump insted of a headshake.
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In Favor if we can compromise be removing the "randomization" of the osti-shots I have read about on other threads. It seems it was put in to account for no shaking. Now that it shakes, seems like overkill to me.
And all this time I just thought my aim was bad . . .
Ok, well, it is bad, but . . .
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Not in Favor of the shake. The Ostwind is the most affected by the recent update. Even the top guns in the Ostwind say it decreases their ability. They're also saying they can't understand how anybody could learn the gun now.
I don't care for the shake in the bomber guns and the coaxial machine guns in tanks either. I'd like to see these changed back to non-shake. Even if nothing else is changed back it would save the viability of the Ostwind to at least change that back.
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agreed, it seems more of a raddle or tremble then so to say recoil. I think it should be a muzzle jump insted of a headshake.
Your Correct, even firing a machine gun on a bi-pod doesn't make everything shake, but rather the gun itself. Even mounted on a gun post on a chopper, the gun would shake, thus moving manual sighting around. Maybe just maybe a 20mm might blur your vision if firing from the shoulder on the ground :D
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NOT IN FAVOR. As you said En4cer, the balance in the game has tipped drastically.
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I love the headshake because it generates such sweet, sweet whines.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I've only seen the feature in buff guns and M16s so far, so my vote doesn't really count for much. FWIW I like what I've seen in these two.
Need to try out other GVs and also rear-facing fighter guns.
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IN FAVOR, because the GVers and Bomberers deserve it, it looks really cool, and the panicked shrieking of the masses is sweet music to my ears. :aok
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I'm in favor of it.
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Seems like those people that like the "Headshake" have thier heads in the clouds during the game. But then all it does for them is allow them more of a Playstation version of the game. Kind of like Combat Flight Sim. Just mindless fly and furball with no real challenging objective. They want to 'Boom-N-Zoom" and not get shot at while they do it.
A lot, if not most, that have to deal with it don't like it. Let alone the fact that more and more people that use GVs or Buff guns are reporting headaches due to eyestrain.
I don't like it. NOT IN FAVOR.
LTARsqrl <>
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:cry
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Originally posted by Nightshift82
agreed, it seems more of a raddle or tremble then so to say recoil. I think it should be a muzzle jump insted of a headshake.
that would be because the guns ar usually mounted on something as opposed to you just holding them.
So the recoil shows up as more of a vibration then a shove you back recoil.
Since your holding the gun. it would only make sence you would vibrate too.
The vibrations are fine. Even when Zoomed all the way in or, all the way out I have little trouble hitting anything with machine guns.
BTW. I noticed last night the MG's on the Tigers dont vibrate...at all
Still havent tried the osti.
But I am rarely ever able to hit anything with an osti anyway
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Seems like those people that like the "Headshake" have thier heads in the clouds during the game. But then all it does for them is allow them more of a Playstation version of the game. Kind of like Combat Flight Sim. Just mindless fly and furball with no real challenging objective. They want to 'Boom-N-Zoom" and not get shot at while they do it.
A lot, if not most, that have to deal with it don't like it. Let alone the fact that more and more people that use GVs or Buff guns are reporting headaches due to eyestrain.
I don't like it. NOT IN FAVOR.
LTARsqrl <>
If they drank less they probably woudnt have the headaches, or nausea.
drunkards typically dont do well operating things that shake. Makes em puke.
MGs that sit perfectly still are more playstation like then realistic.
Realistically the Guns shook. And since your holding the gun logic would dictate YOU would shake too. And since your shaking. it would seem like the whole world was shaking.
IMO the guns (osti notwithstanding) and the shaking do pretty much what they should do.
Leave em alone. Give it some time to get used to it.
I barely even notice it.
Then again I barely ever drink alot
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I find the shaking in the osti as a bit excessive.
On the buffs a minor inconvienence.
On the barrel of tank? How much does a tank barrel weigh anyways? ...its just plain silly it moves more from the turret mg than it does firing an AP round.
The only thing that does NOT shake when a machine gun is fired is a Fighter! Now that I find shocking, especially when you consider 20mm, 30mm and 37mm guns that have zero effect on the pilot or plane when these cannon are fired.
Makes you wonder if they ever watched file footage from the American gun cameras in WWII? Those images show clearly that the guns caused the wings to shake/vibrate on F4U's with only 50 cals. Now imagine the kick from 20 and 30mm guns? But nothing moves when the fighter pilot pulls the trigger. If you are going to make an osti dance, a tank shake and the bomber guns vibrate....ya gotta extend that to fighters too.
Just my opinion... I may be wrong.
Softail
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Seems like those people that like the "Headshake" have thier heads in the clouds during the game. But then all it does for them is allow them more of a Playstation version of the game. Kind of like Combat Flight Sim. Just mindless fly and furball with no real challenging objective. They want to 'Boom-N-Zoom" and not get shot at while they do it.
A lot, if not most, that have to deal with it don't like it. Let alone the fact that more and more people that use GVs or Buff guns are reporting headaches due to eyestrain.
I don't like it. NOT IN FAVOR.
LTARsqrl <>
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok I could not agree with you more!
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Seems like those people that like the "Headshake" have thier heads in the clouds during the game. But then all it does for them is allow them more of a Playstation version of the game. Kind of like Combat Flight Sim. Just mindless fly and furball with no real challenging objective. They want to 'Boom-N-Zoom" and not get shot at while they do it.
A lot, if not most, that have to deal with it don't like it. Let alone the fact that more and more people that use GVs or Buff guns are reporting headaches due to eyestrain.
I don't like it. NOT IN FAVOR.
LTARsqrl <>
Orrrr people who don't like the "headshake" have become to use to having zoom all the way in. This seams more playstation like to me. Kind of like any fps with a scope. Seam like a win the war land grabber wanting people to play like he wants. They want rock steady guns so they can snipe from farther out.
A lot ,no all players have headshake now. Just like fighters do if they zoom all the way in. Take an asprin and don't zoom all the way in . there no more headache.
I love it. I AM IN FAVOR
OHH 1 more thing.
:cry :cry :cry :cry
Bronk
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Originally posted by Softail
The only thing that does NOT shake when a machine gun is fired is a Fighter!
Wrong, fighters shake as well. Always have. All HTC did was level the playing feild.
Oh and I'm all for it! Nothing like being in my buffs at 2K, blasting away at fighters with the world shaking like mad!@##!@
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Bronk, you are teh wurst typerer EVAR, but I agree. Zip it and tolerate what the rest of the MA has been.
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I like it.
Adds to the realism.
Without realism all this game would be is an arcade.
I grew out of 'Space Port' decades ago.
You can always play 'Air Attack' if all you want is an arcade game.
http://www.play-free-online-games.com/games/airattack.html
http://www.airattack.co.uk/club/index.php (http://www.airattack.co.uk/club/index.php)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Bronk, you are teh wurst typerer EVAR, but I agree. Zip it and tolerate what the rest of the MA has been.
Hehe sorry hub I haven't taken Jaxxo's typing course for "leet speak".
zOMFGz!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111!1!1!!!
That help any?
Bronk
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Ah, I got ya now. I assume I was drunk when I posted that, since I was surprised to see that I had posted.
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....
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Originally posted by 96Delta
I like it.
Adds to the realism.
Without realism all this game would be is an arcade.
I grew out of 'Space Port' decades ago.
You can always play 'Air Attack' if all you want is an arcade game.
http://www.play-free-online-games.com/games/airattack.html
http://www.airattack.co.uk/club/index.php (http://www.airattack.co.uk/club/index.php)
Lol, 2nd person to mention 'realism' in this thread.
We are playing the same game here, aren't we?
Realism -
Perfect Summer days
No fog
No bad weather
No night
Min 75% fuel
1940 planes up against 1945 planes
Tigers flipped by a blade of grass
Tank rounds bouncing off M3's
Tank rounds stopped by a blade of grass
GV's hiding under bomb craters
Dive bombing Lancs / B17s
Yup sure sounds realistic to me.
We now return you to your scheduled 'Air Quake' available in the MA every day.
{edit} Forgot to answer original question - not in favour, all that should 'shake' is the sight.
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Kev367th you are correct. The only thing that should move are the sights.
As for recoil, of all the automatic weapons that I have fired, any "Vibration" was absorbed by my arms and body. Never once did my eyes blur from "Vibration".
LTARsqrl <>
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Fired a GPMG, LMG, SMG, none of which gave the head shakes, but on long bursts aiming point would change.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Lol, 2nd person to mention 'realism' in this thread.
We are playing the same game here, aren't we?
Realism -
Perfect Summer days
No fog
No bad weather
No night
Min 75% fuel
1940 planes up against 1945 planes
Tigers flipped by a blade of grass
Tank rounds bouncing off M3's
Tank rounds stopped by a blade of grass
GV's hiding under bomb craters
Dive bombing Lancs / B17s
Yup sure sounds realistic to me.
We now return you to your scheduled 'Air Quake' available in the MA every day.
{edit} Forgot to answer original question - not in favour, all that should 'shake' is the sight.
Thank you!!!!!! :aok :aok :aok
For those who can't see it or understand what is being talked about, can't be playing the same game or are refusing to see the truth. I have pity for them, or maybe not. :D
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Lol, 2nd person to mention 'realism' in this thread.
We are playing the same game here, aren't we?
Realism -
Perfect Summer days
No fog
No bad weather
No night
Min 75% fuel
1940 planes up against 1945 planes
Tigers flipped by a blade of grass
Tank rounds bouncing off M3's
Tank rounds stopped by a blade of grass
GV's hiding under bomb craters
Dive bombing Lancs / B17s
Yup sure sounds realistic to me.
We now return you to your scheduled 'Air Quake' available in the MA every day.
{edit} Forgot to answer original question - not in favour, all that should 'shake' is the sight.
Kev - Thats what I call driving a 16 Penny Nail home with a 32oz Hammer in 1 shot. :aok Cheers!
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I love the headshake because it generates such sweet, sweet whines.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Word.
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Bronk: "Seam like a win the war land grabber wanting people to play like he wants. They want rock steady guns so they can snipe from farther out"
What does "land grabber" war winner have to do with headshake??
Secondly, there is no such thing as "sniping" when firing an AA gun at a fast moving target like an aircraft. Someone might want to do a little research on AA guns and WWII.
P.S. The word you're looking for is seem not seam;)
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Hey Moil, did you know there's a C in "disciplined"?
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Lol, 2nd person to mention 'realism' in this thread.
We are playing the same game here, aren't we?
Realism -
Perfect Summer days
No fog
No bad weather
No night
Min 75% fuel
1940 planes up against 1945 planes
Tigers flipped by a blade of grass
Tank rounds bouncing off M3's
Tank rounds stopped by a blade of grass
GV's hiding under bomb craters
Dive bombing Lancs / B17s
Yup sure sounds realistic to me.
We now return you to your scheduled 'Air Quake' available in the MA every day.
{edit} Forgot to answer original question - not in favour, all that should 'shake' is the sight.
thing is habit seems to be everyone wants things to be realistic only when it benifits them. Then everything gets pointed out from Rate of fire, to bullet trajectory to the number of flipping rivets there are on the wing of a given plane.
Yet
whenever something doesnt benifit them. They argue against it and point to these exact same things you just mentioned and more.
BTW, You forgot to mention Trees you cant fire out from the space between the trees when in a tank but can be fired into through the very same space between trees from outside the tree area from a tank. and the 10 foot bubble that seems to surround all trees you cant fire past when near them
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Originally posted by MOIL
Bronk: "Seam like a win the war land grabber wanting people to play like he wants. They want rock steady guns so they can snipe from farther out"
What does "land grabber" war winner have to do with headshake??
Secondly, there is no such thing as "sniping" when firing an AA gun at a fast moving target like an aircraft. Someone might want to do a little research on AA guns and WWII.
P.S. The word you're looking for is seem not seam;)
Well SEEMS I hit a sore spot ehhh. So buffs are now furballers ehh? Hate to burst your big ego but it's not all about GVs. And by snipe, I have been picked off 1k out at a high 9oc from buffs. Why because the can zooom all the way in and have perfect sight picture. If you put your eye that close to any gun sight its going to move . The closer you put it the bigger the movement seems. Once again you now have what all fighters have had to deal with when zoomed all the way in. Sorry HT took your crutch away. Now go learn how to do it not zoomed in .
Ohh once again.
:cry :cry :cry
Bronk
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Originally posted by E25280
In Favor if we can compromise be removing the "randomization" of the osti-shots I have read about on other threads. It seems it was put in to account for no shaking. Now that it shakes, seems like overkill to me.
The spread of the Ostwinds shots are pretty drastic. The addition of the headshake, has made for more then just a challenging combination. It seems to be a bit excessive to overcome. I beleive a toned down version of the head shake, and / or a tightening up of the Ostie shot group could make for a viable AA weapon, with the touch of realism that most of us are looking for.
I am against the headshake in its current form.
LTARsabr
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At first I thought it was horrible major drag to the gv's, but now i've learned to block it out. The bullets still shoot the same with the same spread and accuracy pattern. I don't feel it has restricted my ability to shoot down planes at all, last night I had 17 in a very short period of time 3 of which were 2.5 out. It's hard to explain but you can block out the shake and just focus on the tracers.
So if this shake causes others to feel like they can't shoot accurately, great now I feel safer at every base I want to pork, bomb, or vulch.
I do feel like it's not cool that some people are feeling sick from it, that should never be a factor in any game. But for every 10 people that complain about feeling sick from it probably only 1 really did. The others are trying to use it as leverage to get there way.
JMFJ
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Originally posted by Toad
Word.
Hey Toad, maybe you would be so kind to answer a question for me. I guess I’m just of the wrong generation. I have learned most of the acronyms used on-line and some of the slang used in today’s world. So, in the common vernacular, what does “WORD” mean? I’d like to see your definition to help with my understanding. When a single word is used as a reply such as specious, tremendous, Nietzscheism, narcissistic, phenomenal, I understand those. But “WORD” what does that really mean? I’m not trying to be trite nor insincere. Thank you in advance for the thoughtful reply and information I’m sure you will give me. :D
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Originally posted by Bronk
Well SEEMS I hit a sore spot ehhh. So buffs are now furballers ehh? Hate to burst your big ego but it's not all about GVs. And by snipe, I have been picked off 1k out at a high 9oc from buffs. Why because the can zooom all the way in and have perfect sight picture. If you put your eye that close to any gun sight its going to move . The closer you put it the bigger the movement seems. Once again you now have what all fighters have had to deal with when zoomed all the way in. Sorry HT took your crutch away. Now go learn how to do it not zoomed in .
You were picked off because you were too close, holding steady and saying quack.
It's a big if right now, but what if bombers accommodate the shake? What if they start shooting you as well as before the shake update? What will you use for an excuse then? Will you figure out you need to learn how to do it right or will you start whining about "buff lasers" again? I think we can bet money on which it will be.
It's not the buffs guns that got you. It's not the fighter plane you flew that killed you. It was your lame skill set in attacking bombers that killed you. There are fighter pilots in this game who've bothered to learn how to kill bombers. I can't help but wonder what they must think of whiny little posts like yours.
Whether it be gv's, buff guns, or even something like a Spit-16 shooting you down, it won't matter. You'll whine and applaud any change to the game that will hinder them. :lol Yeah, you're a great pilot.
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Chop I wasn't holding position I was in a highspeed dive and was at high 9 when i was picked off.
Ohh and as far as my skill set I do ok against buffs. Only ones I realy have a problem with is 26s no idea why.
You still just pissed its equal now , can't have your sights zoomed all the way in and pick at 1k anymore whaaaa.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Well SEEMS I hit a sore spot ehhh. So buffs are now furballers ehh? Hate to burst your big ego but it's not all about GVs. And by snipe, I have been picked off 1k out at a high 9oc from buffs. Why because the can zooom all the way in and have perfect sight picture. If you put your eye that close to any gun sight its going to move . The closer you put it the bigger the movement seems. Once again you now have what all fighters have had to deal with when zoomed all the way in. Sorry HT took your crutch away. Now go learn how to do it not zoomed in .
Ohh once again.
:cry :cry :cry
Bronk
I could give a crap about the buffs.
Shooting an Osti is not like shooting a fighter. I can't kill a fighter with just a two second burst. I don't have 4 cannon or 8 machine guns. I can't get 200 off his six. I have to start shooting at 1.5K out. Most all shots are crossing shots. The Osti is also used against other GVs. To have a chance to be effective you have to fire zoomed in.
t's hard to explain but you can block out the shake and just focus on the tracers.
Seems only certain people can SEE the bloody tracers. Unfortunately, I am not one of them. And yes, I have played with monitor settings on the CRT to no avail.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Chop I wasn't holding position I was in a highspeed dive and was at high 9 when i was picked off.
Ohh and as far as my skill set I do ok against buffs. Only ones I realy have a problem with is 26s no idea why.
You still just pissed its equal now , can't have your sights zoomed all the way in and pick at 1k anymore whaaaa.
Flying level or diving straight for the guns, it's all the same. You're holding steady in the buffs sights. If you were nailed at 1.0 in a dive, you weren't directly over the buffs and that's where you needed to be.
If you did okay with buffs before the shake update, that sounds like things were equal. So now that it looks like buffs are in worse position it's still equal?! The way it is now some guy can literally drive right up my six at coalt. with his trigger taped and expect to catch at least one of my buffs on fire before I can dismantle him. This has been happening to my squad mates and I since the shake update. Sound equal to you?
Fighters had the advantage before the shake update. Now they don't even need to worry about skill beyond what it takes to get the fighter into the air.
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Originally posted by ChopSaw
Flying level or diving straight for the guns, it's all the same. You're holding steady in the buffs sights. If you were nailed at 1.0 in a dive, you weren't directly over the buffs and that's where you needed to be.
If you did okay with buffs before the shake update, that sounds like things were equal. So now that it looks like buffs are in worse position it's still equal?! The way it is now some guy can literally drive right up my six at coalt. with his trigger taped and expect to catch at least one of my buffs on fire before I can dismantle him. This has been happening to my squad mates and I since the shake update. Sound equal to you?
Fighters had the advantage before the shake update. Now they don't even need to worry about skill beyond what it takes to get the fighter into the air.
Well 999000 blew my bellybutton away the other nite. Doesnt seem like his aim is hurting. Maybe youre just not good enough? Hmm.
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Originally posted by BigR
Well 999000 blew my bellybutton away the other nite. Doesnt seem like his aim is hurting. Maybe youre just not good enough? Hmm.
Well that settles this one. Seems to me chop its your skills in question now.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Well that settles this one. Seems to me chop its your skills in question now.
There are so many things wrong with your take on the one event with 999000 it would take pages to explain it. Suffice it to say, buffs can still shoot down fighters to some degree. It just seems we've been crippled to an unreasonable degree.
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Originally Posted by Bronk
Well that settles this one. Seems to me chop its your skills in question now.
I've got skills numchuck skills, bo staff skills, bowhunting skills, you know skills.
JMFJ
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i noticed the shake in ostie..get used to it
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Originally posted by SirLoin
i noticed the shake in ostie..get used to it
Good advice. Right up there with, "when you're getting boned, smile and enjoy it".
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Doesn't bother me and even Kathryn Hepburn gives it two thumbs up!
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For it
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Seems like those people that like the "Headshake" have thier heads in the clouds during the game. But then all it does for them is allow them more of a Playstation version of the game.
Yeah because hitting a 350mph weaving aircraft from over a kilometer away at near 90 degree deflection with a single37mm shell is nothing like a PS2 gam3r'5 idea of realistic.
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I don't get it. If head shake bothers you so match, why don't you people just stop shaking your heads? :confused:
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
....
Walks..totters..it's all good ;)
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Originally posted by Edbert
Yeah because hitting a 350mph weaving aircraft from over a kilometer away at near 90 degree deflection with a single37mm shell is nothing like a PS2 gam3r'5 idea of realistic.
Just as realistic as a single 110 sneaking in to a vh and destroying the hangers and acks in 2 passes.
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or any cannon-armed plane diving into the acks, firing a burst 1k out, turning away and surviving..........but killing the ack.
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Originally posted by Docc
Just as realistic as a single 110 sneaking in to a vh and destroying the hangers and acks in 2 passes.
why is it so hard for people to understand there wasnt very many. if any hardened bunkers at airfeilds or bases during WWII? And the ones there were typically werent used for housing aircraft, ammo, fuel and troops
The fronts were simply moving too fast to make them practical.
Most everything that was housed. if it was housed at all was done so under tent canvas or corrgated metal not a whole lot thicker then a soup can.
Bullets could pierce either quite easily not to mention cannon rounds.
If anything. Ammo bunkers,barracks, Fuel, and hangars are a hell of alot harder in the game then they ever were IRL
Remember. We're talking 1939-1945 here,
Not the year 2000 where there is a need for such weapons as Bunker busters
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Bottom line: in this game we're talking 1939 defense (and only half of it...nothing manned on the ground can kill a bomber at 3000 AGL) against 1945 offense.
Might as well rename the land grab portion of this game Blitzkreig. Good luck finding people who are happy playing the role of the French and Polish.
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Headshake,
bleh, dont matter.
Gato! (How you do that kewl 3D art bro!? ) Now There is a controversy!
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Bronk
Well SEEMS I hit a sore spot ehhh. So buffs are now furballers ehh? Hate to burst your big ego but it's not all about GVs. And by snipe, I have been picked off 1k out at a high 9oc from buffs. Why because the can zooom all the way in and have perfect sight picture. If you put your eye that close to any gun sight its going to move . The closer you put it the bigger the movement seems. Once again you now have what all fighters have had to deal with when zoomed all the way in. Sorry HT took your crutch away. Now go learn how to do it not zoomed in .
Ohh once again.
:cry :cry :cry
Bronk
First off, not a "sore spot", and I garuntee you a weeks wages that if HT did an update and the C47 flew no different than a 190-d9 we'd hear about it.
Secondly, I see no where in any of my posts pertaining to "buff furballers" Not sure where this came from, but then again don't really care.
Thirdly, I never said "it's all about GV's" if I remember correctly the thread was about "headshake" NOT, "thread about GV's only" ?
Next, I don't know that much about attacking buffs in a plane or how to even do it. I don't know why you get "picked off" at 1k, you'll have to ask HT.
As far as "sniping" you in the Ostwind 1k away is a joke in itself. 1st, there's no "sniping" in an AA platform. Weather zoomed in or not AA works off the principle of sending as many projectiles into the sky as possible hoping you either hit the target or the target runs into one.
Note: this is where our squad name was derived from
LTAR = Lead To Air Ratio (object, fill the sky with lead) that's what AA batteries do. They don't "snipe", so if you caught a round at 1k away, there was probably 1000's of rounds that missed and maybe you should stay further away?
Lastly, weather I or anyone else can "zoom" in or out is irrelevant. If HT want's to make it that no one can "zoom" in or out that is fine. I can live with that, but to make the screen blury and shake is absurd. If the "GUNSIGHT" shakes, fine, but to make the target and it's surroundings shake, thats crazy.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Realism -
Perfect Summer days
No fog
No bad weather
No night
Min 75% fuel
1940 planes up against 1945 planes
Tigers flipped by a blade of grass
Tank rounds bouncing off M3's
Tank rounds stopped by a blade of grass
GV's hiding under bomb craters
Dive bombing Lancs / B17s
Yup sure sounds realistic to me.
Good weather summer days are not realistic? where do you live, England? ;)
Do not confuse realizm with game concessions, game design issues and exploitation by the players.
Guns shake, that is realistic. The shooter head usualy doesn't shake, BUT the way AH works is that you eyeball is glued to the gun. That is game mechanics and implementing a shake seperate from your view will be more complex. If you advocate that, maybe THE MAN will do something about it.
The zoom feature is there since we play on lower-than-life resolution 2D monitors - game concession. It is not a telescopic gunsight and players are not supposed to fire fully zoomed in as in a sniper rifle - same as buffs are not supposed to dive bomb even though they can.
If you drivers think the gun shake in unrealistic, what do you say about filling an open Osti turret with 0.5 bullets without killing the player manning the guns?
Bozon
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Edbert:
Yeah because hitting a 350mph weaving aircraft from over a kilometer away at near 90 degree deflection with a single37mm shell is nothing like a PS2 gam3r'5 idea of realistic.
See Moils Post above. If you get tagged by a 37mm round, there were probably 1000 that missed.
Also Notice Moils Signature. "Ya Can't dodge Rain drops"
Think about that next time you see 5 Ostwinds flinging lead at you.
LTARsqrl <>
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Sorry you got educated Bronk....but before the patch bombers with those lazer 50s could knock you down 1.5 to 1.8 out and usually did. Try shooting anything, moving or not, in an ostwind sometime before you insist there is nothing wrong. And remember, even before the patch otstis had a dispersion factor built in.......your rounds never went where you aimed them.
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Edbert:
See Moils Post above. If you get tagged by a 37mm round, there were probably 1000 that missed.
Also Notice Moils Signature. "Ya Can't dodge Rain drops"
Think about that next time you see 5 Ostwinds flinging lead at you.
LTARsqrl <>
There's a good point there, I concede that, but there's also a glaring overstatement.
What is the ROF of the 37mmHE? Lets just say 60rpm for the sake of argument, it is close to that. So your five Ostwinds can put up 300 rounds in a minute, but my fighter is only being fired at for 10-15 seconds so the number goes down to say 40-50 rounds, hardly "thousands of rounds of lead" much less a wall of it. Now if I was flying straight and level they would be much more condensed since you guys obviously have figured out how to lead (pronounced leed not led, LOL) a target. But If I am maneuvering then the bubble that contains those 40 rounds has to get spread out unless you have predicted the path of the evasive. Combine an unpredictable path with the fact that I am 350mph (or more, just stating low for the sake of argument) during those 10-15 seconds means I have travelled very close to mile in the 10 second window. So you still have 40 rounds spread out in a bubble stretched over a mile. Hardly a rain shower.
I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of the LTARs in the Ostwinds, generally speaking I stay away from FPs anyhow. I am just hoping you can see that the former ability to snipe with them was gamey is all.
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I've got skills numchuck skills ...
You must have wacked yourself one too many times.
They are called ... Nunchakus.
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Edbert........if what you say is true and your fighter should not get hit by AA, how did all those fighters die in WW2 from AA fire? A gun would not be manufactured to shoot down planes if it was not designed to be capable of doing so.
We had a weakened version of AA before the last patch and now its even weaker. Right now I'd say the odds of hitting a plane within 1.5k from a manned ack are about 15% and about 5% from an osti unless you come straight at the gun.....then the odds go up to 25-30% but not much higher because the aiming point for the gun changes due to shell ballistics faster than the gun will fire. Usually the fighter will kill the ack before it can kill him if the fighter fires from 1k out as most do in this game. So, stay away from the acks if you think your survivabilty is too threatened. The acks never survive.
The hit percentage of a good field gunner is usually way under 1%. Osti is even worse.
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Originally posted by Docc
Edbert........if what you say is true and your fighter should not get hit by AA, how did all those fighters die in WW2 from AA fire? A gun would not be manufactured to shoot down planes if it was not designed to be capable of doing so.
We had a weakened version of AA before the last patch and now its even weaker. Right now I'd say the odds of hitting a plane within 1.5k from a manned ack are about 15% and about 5% from an osti unless you come straight at the gun.....then the odds go up to 25-30% but not much higher because the aiming point for the gun changes due to shell ballistics faster than the gun will fire. Usually the fighter will kill the ack before it can kill him if the fighter fires from 1k out as most do in this game. So, stay away from the acks if you think your survivabilty is too threatened. The acks never survive.
The hit percentage of a good field gunner is usually way under 1%. Osti is even worse.
Where did I say "my fighter should not be hit by ack"? That first statement is so ridiculous that I almost did not reply. If "what I say is true" is simple mathmatics, 360mph means you travel one mile in ten seconds. 60 rounds per minute means you fire 15 shots in 15 seconds. The good thing about math is you don't have to takes somoene's word for it or have faith in their personal viewpoint.
If I have cannons the acks are toast, simple as that, and I agree they should be harder to target when they are not firing instead of being so exposed in those little dirt bullseyes. But I don't agree that they should be hardened, a few 20mm HE rounds going off in your office will ruin your whole day. If I have nothing but MGs in my plane I tend to avoid acks and only take them on when they are busy firing at someone else. If it is an osti and I don't have ord I get REALLY cautious, I can fill their open turret with .50 cals and not kill the gunner but he can snipe me from 1K away with his scope.
I'd also be in favor of doubling or tripling the number of acks at a base, mainly witha mix of small caliber and multi-barrelled installations. I do agree with you that supressing a base's defenses is too easy for a lone plane. Add in a horde and it is rediculous. But to be honest, field capture has been SO easy for the last decade (warbirds and AH) that defense is pretty pointless anyhow, offense is how you "W11n teh WAA@@R!!one".
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Originally posted by Edbert
I'd also be in favor of doubling or tripling the number of acks at a base, mainly witha mix of small caliber and multi-barrelled installations. I do agree with you that supressing a base's defenses is too easy for a lone plane. Add in a horde and it is rediculous. But to be honest, field capture has been SO easy for the last decade (warbirds and AH) that defense is pretty pointless anyhow, offense is how you "W11n teh WAA@@R!!one".
Can't get much smaller caliber or shorter range than what we've got now......unless you start handing out M1s. 88s were plentiful but we don;t have them. (I don't count the puffy ack at fields because we have no control over it and it only seems to affect a certain few people who are magnets for it.)
But there lies the true problem; defence is limited and offence wins 'the war'. Usually, only the side with numbers can successfully go on offence, and the other 2 countries have little to counter with as the game currently stands.
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Originally posted by Docc
Edbert........if what you say is true and your fighter should not get hit by AA, how did all those fighters die in WW2 from AA fire? A gun would not be manufactured to shoot down planes if it was not designed to be capable of doing so.
Well it wasn't from 6 ostis thats for sure. More like 100's of 88s I'd think.
Bronk
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The LTARs have the deserved reputation of being the best gv gunners in this game.......aside from Zazen (I still haven't figured out how he does it).
So instead of surviving like the rest, Edbert was killed by the best.
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Edbert, how many passes did you make before getting tagged? How many other aircraft were being shot at. It might have been as simple as you running into a round ment for someone else. Or the fact that when you lead a plane from 1.0 out you are a good 100 to 200k in front of him. Or it might be that when there are a lot of planes in the are, I hold the trigger down just like they did. Lead To Air Ratio. Might not even be aiming at a target, but something might fly into one of my rounds. And it happens a lot. I have gotten kill on people 2.5 to 3.0 out. Not that I was aiming at them, they just happened to run into a stray round. But don't tell them that. Reputation ya see. :aok
With the headshake the way it is now, that is about the only way I can hit anything cause I can't look at the screen while shooting without much discomfort.
I haven't been on much since the patch for that fact. I play this game for the GVs. Now with the headshake, I can't even do that. Game over till it is fixed for me except for limited time. Sure not getting my $14.95 worth anymore.
LTARsqrl <> :( :(
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I just looked at the scoring pages and I have not killed an Ostwind all year and have died to one this year. I also have not killed or been killed by an LTAR in 7 months (got tired of looking back farther). So this discussion angle where I am getting whacked by LTARs is misplaced.
I simply do not enjoy the A2G part of AH and do not engage in it much, and like I said if I don't have ord (which is 99%) of the time I stay the hell away from Osties. I know that many of my deaths to flakpanzers happened when I was engaging an A2A target and got dragged over one, or was in some way engaged with something else. But when I see one I generally go low, fast, evasive, and offer small profile high deflection shots to them. Sometimes they get lucky I guess.
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LTARSqrl You have a PM
JMFJ
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Originally posted by Docc
Sorry you got educated Bronk....but before the patch bombers with those lazer 50s could knock you down 1.5 to 1.8 out and usually did. Try shooting anything, moving or not, in an ostwind sometime before you insist there is nothing wrong. And remember, even before the patch otstis had a dispersion factor built in.......your rounds never went where you aimed them.
Who was killing targets at 1.5 to 1.8 with buff guns before the patch?! Even in AH1 they had to be at least within 1.4 and even then it took a sustained firing solution and a lot of ammo. The 50 cal just doesn’t have the energy at that range. In AH2 before the patch you'd be lucky to get a single hit sprite at 1.4. They'd have to get within 1.0 before you could do significant damage and even then it took a sustained burst or a fair amount of luck. Realistically we'd be wasting ammo on anything beyond 800. Post patch it's the same way. It's just harder to aim now. A lot harder.
I'm with you on the Ostwinds of course.
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In real life we can see targets much better. The computer screen gives us a much reduced capability. I'd always thought the zoom feature was meant to compensate for that just as there are many other compensations within the game to make it emulate real life.
To suddenly make it difficult to use the compensation of zoom is to cripple selected players based upon their preference in rides. Bombers or gv's.
The shake was added to increase immersion. I hope the side effects of this were unanticipated and that the shakes will be taken out in the next patch. Whenever that is.
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Geez all you GV guys whining about headshake really made me try it out yesterday BEFORE TODAY'S PATCH! The worst headshake I saw in the game was with the single .50 in the Jeep. To me the "headshake" with the Ostwind and the M-16 was negligible at best and far less than what I remember from shooting even an M-60 MG mounted on a tripod or bipod. I also remember the shake from the time I shot a M2 Browning mounted on a tripod and that was pretty weak compared to the M-60. So for most of you anti-headshake guys perception must have been reality. I can concede that it would effect a small percentage but not so much as to hinder your ability to drive a vehicle and shoot the gun. BUT as I said I just sat in them and fired the entire ammo load in long runs and many different bursts.
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Check out the new patch. Things are MUCH better. Great work HTC. Now back to your regularly scheduled mayhem. :aok
LTARsqrl <>
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Hurray, we don't have to listen to the LTAR's crying anymore!!! :) :) :)
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Thank You HiTech and Staff :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
The Osti is back - bigger, badder, than ever. Looks like the newly installed servo-dampers and reinforced shocks did the trick - Minimal shaking. Still waiting patiently for the Zazen Model 2000 GPS Targeting System.
NO VULCHING FOR YOU!
Tell em LTARs - The Pain Train is a coming!
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Originally posted by richard_rd
Hurray, we don't have to listen to the LTAR's crying anymore!!! :) :) :)
Yeah "WE" were the "ONLY" ones complaining:rolleyes:
I'd post some more but I'm busy reading the 1264 threads on all the things people are crying & complaining about certain planes.
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Moil, considering we didn't start this post, just posted our observations and opinions and he singled us out as "Whiners", must mean we made an impression on him. Probably a 37mm impression right between his eyes. :rofl
And he keeps reading our posts now doesn't he. :aok
LTARsqrl <>
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Anytime you say that you're going to quit if a change to the game isn't undone, you're going to get mocked.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Anytime you say that you're going to quit if a change to the game isn't undone, you're going to get mocked.
Sour grapes do not a meal make, eh?
Next time a change is made to the game that makes flying your fighter a nauseating experience, get back to us.
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Originally posted by ChopSaw
Sour grapes do not a meal make, eh?
Next time a change is made to the game that makes flying your fighter a nauseating experience, get back to us.
Did you stop shaking your head yet?
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Originally posted by dedalos
Did you stop shaking your head yet?
No. I just can't seem to get the hang of it.