Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: TheWobble on January 28, 2001, 12:28:00 AM
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Me and My GF are moving to Austin soon and both bought pistols to keep at home and in car, well today I decided to take her out for some target practice, we drove a way out into the country and I drove My 4x4 down into a dry creek bed, we found a few old cans and started plinking away, her with H&K 40 and Me with My new Glock 40, after about 20 min we ran out of targets (cans don't last long against bullets that size) I looked in my truck bed and saw this small aerosol type can that had been rattling around there so long that the nozzle had broken off and all the paint had been worn away. So I took this small silver can and put it on a stump about 40 feet away and said, "lets see who can hit it first" Me ad her began tapping away at it and on the 5 shot I hit it and POOF! the canister was gone and a large red mist blew into the air, like a total handsomehunk i started walking twords it when suddenly it hit me PEPPER SPRAY, it was an old but quite full pepper spray can my GF had a while back, I was already too close to the cloud to react so immediately all my exposed skin began to sting and my lungs burned like hell, I was quite sweaty with no shirt so that just made things worse, Anywho it was a most disagreeable experience that did not end till I took a long shower about half an hour later.
Moral of story: don't shoot something if ya don't know what it is..
REAL Moral of story: I'm a handsomehunk (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Easop reborn! <S> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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That stupid green smiley reminds me of the look on the face of my GF as she tried to subue the roaring laughter as I squirmed in terror (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Classic Wob truly classic. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Lets see, 1st were supposed to believe your girlfriend was awarded $100,000 in a 2 week lawsuit, and now, instead of a complete tard, your a shirtless, sweaty, gun shooting Natural Born Killer?
AOL chat rooms will appreciate your imagination much more than flightsim forums Im guessing.
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Whatever cremo be pissy I dont care.
Creekbed= no wind, no wind+texas=hot as hell, hot as hell=no shirt if socally acceptable.
and its "shirtless, sweaty, gun shooting Natural Born CAN Killer" if you dont mind.
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
Creekbed= no wind, no wind+texas=hot as hell, hot as hell=no shirt if socally acceptable.
Well, it was 63 degrees, with 17mph winds out of the SE yesterday in Austin. Im having a hard time imagining the hot "Hell" your describing.
Your a toejamty lier, but I must say this could get real amusing.
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Originally posted by Creamo:
Lets see, 1st were supposed to believe your girlfriend was awarded $100,000 in a 2 week lawsuit, and now, instead of a complete tard, your a shirtless, sweaty, gun shooting Natural Born Killer?
AOL chat rooms will appreciate your imagination much more than flightsim forums Im guessing.
? My step mother won one a few years ago. It does happen. She and my father hunted and fished and just went out and shot cans and gofers together. I have guns and shoot at cans and targets. My mother won a smaller settlement a few years ago also. I guess that's more realistic because it was smaller and her and her boy friend run white water in rubber rafts and go shooting! So do I! Both of my guns are ASSAULT RIFLES even. Oh my God. I must be lying! My life has been a total lie! How in the hell can you make a statement like that. He could be lying thru his teeth but YOU have no way of knowing. Your just jealous. Now I'm going to toot my horn. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I have an AR15 and an M14 (both semi auto). I had a .44mag Desert Eagle that I stupidly sold to my brother. I've ridden in a B17. I had a 500hp 1974 TA that went 150mph. I've driven from Richland WA to Ellensburg WA in 55 minutes in a 1979 Z28. That's an average speed of about 130mph. I did it twice in the same weekend. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I was member of Chad Littles team for one day. It wasn't during a race but I helped out. His mom is my moms friend. I could throw in a few more little stupid things but I wont. My God I'm lying again! None of those is significant in any way. There just trivia in my life. But there are people that would love to say anyone of those things. There are people that would give hundreds of dollars to be on a NASCAR team for a day or just to meet Chad Little. His mother just knew me and my brother would get a kick out of helping out. The race had been rained out and we were bored. That doesn't make them lies. None of those experiences puts money in my hand or food on the table.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Cremo, I dont live in Austin, I live in Victoria, victoria is further south and it was 78 on the highway according to my truck's thermometer, in the creekbed (near Inez) it felt hotter, and being a creekbed there was 0 wind which made it even hotter.
Oh wait living in victoria is to extravagent to be true, here is my IP trace it, see where it goes, 208.180.127.71
thanks Jim, i dunno why cremo insists on calling me a liar just because i have a somewhat interesting life.
Jim, you ever seen a SL8? (H&K) i bought one a year ago but I dont shoot it much, its futureistic looking but is basically the same as Ar 15, accept for full floating barrel.
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
...Jim, you ever seen a SL8? (H&K) i bought one a year ago but I dont shoot it much, its futureistic looking but is basically the same as Ar 15, accept for full floating barrel.
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 01-28-2001).]
I think I have but I couldn't be sure. A guy at the gun store I frequent has an AR with the floating barrel. My AR is an Olympic Arms. It's the Vietnam era version. My brother bought a new Colt short heavy barrel version 2 years ago. They are fun to shoot. Very accurate and no kick. I love my M14 but I will have to admit that I see why they went to the M16. It is very accurate also. I plugged a clay pigeon I set up on a post at 500 yrds with the original sites. It's just heavy and kicks some. It's a Norinco Springfield copy. The finish of the gun isn't as nice as the Springfield but it was $1,500 dollars cheaper. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I bought it used. I got to shot a BAR M1918A2 (semi auto version). I have to get one! It's .30-06cal. and wieghs 19lbs and has a 24in barrel. Over all length is 48in! I wouldn't have wanted to lugged that baby around in the trenches in WWI and WWII. I guess the G.I.'s loved them though. I would love to own one!
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(http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/civ/sl8/sl8-1.jpg)
mine doesent have the transparent mag's and i dont know where to ge them either (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) but i do have a good scope on it. (looks cool)
BAR, big ole sucker! ive never seen ne IRL but they loook huge, big ole bullet, that would be an expensive toy to plink with, but none the less fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)I cant hit crap with iron sights (bad eyes) and contacts dont help when aiming that much, but i can hit pretty deacent with a scope.
how much did ya pay for yer m14?
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 01-28-2001).]
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TheWobble wrote this stupid toejam:
i dunno why cremo insists on calling me a liar just because i have a somewhat interesting life.
INTERESTING?!
Hold on let me look for something interesting.
(http://home.coqui.net/dimitri/interesting.jpg)
NOPE!!! No results. Sorry Wobble, your life is ass.
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Fat DRUNK Bastards.
Nothing feels sweeter than facing a powerful enemy 1 on 1, the battle is tough, but you emerge victorious. As he types <S>!!! on channel one, you open fire on his chute.
(http://home.coqui.net/dimitri/secret/cassie6.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Animal (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Yep Wob I have seen that gun. It's cool! I paid $700 for the M-14 used but in very good condition. I also got the scope mount for it that also you to use the iron sights too. I went out and bought the bayonet for it. It looks cool with that bayonet on there. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) The next thing I'm getting for it is the original style bipod. The BAR is a $2,500. That will be a purchase way down the road. They have a semi auto, belt fed .30cal M1919A4 with tripod for about $2,700 on display at the store. You can buy a semi auto, belt fed .50 M2 with the tripod for about $8,000. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) It would be spendy to go plink cans but WOW .50 cal. belt feed. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-28-2001).]
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May I ask how much that gun costs Wobble? The one in the pic?
Stats/info on it. Looks really nice.
Wish my paintball marker looked like that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 01-28-2001).]
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The BAR is neat but I still like the M1. I have always wanted one ever since I saw them in that old TV show Combat. You know with Vic Morrow as the Sarge. It was such a neat rifle in the show that I had to get one. Now I have it and it is a real blast to shoot. It doesn't kick as hard as a bolt action 30-06 and shoots fairly accurately for a Korean war returnee with a dark pitted bore.
I've got an AR15 National Match that I have yet to shoot. I suppose I ought to get off my butt and take it out and see what it will do.
I've had a bunch of fun shooting various weapons in the Army from the M16, M3, M3A1, 45 pistol, Beretta 9MM, M2 50cal MG, M60 MG, the 30cal coax tank MG and a S&W revolver used by some Air Police that were on the range that day. The major weapons I got to use include a 90mm recoilless, a 105 Recoilless, 105 howitzer, 105mm Tank gun (LOTS), 4.2" mortar and the 50 cal cupola mounted MG on a tank. I have to admit they were all kinda fun to shoot. I really had fun with the two versions of the M3. The old grease gun is ugly, heavy for the size but a real blast to shoot. It does climb during firing but if you turn it sideways, it is fairly easy to control shooting from the hip.
The biggest kick of all the firing was knowing I didn't have to pay for the ammo for MG's! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Wish I could do some more of it.
Mav
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Tac, I paid $900 for the SL8, but it was "used" my GF's uncle sold it to me so i got a good deal (I better have) but I don't really know what a new costs these days, ill see if I can find out, if nothing else I will ask him tomorrow.
Mav......I HATE YOU!. You have had too much testosterone drenched fun for 1 person, everyone knows we are only allowed a certain ration and you have stuck your greedy hands in far too much....Ugghhh!
<begins searching the internet for a good condition, used, reasonably priced bazooka because now he feels like somewhat less of a man>
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) <S>
EDIT: Tac, the SRP of the SL8 is $1,599 i dunno actual cost, it may be more or less, hope that helps.
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Wobble,
I have a very close friend who has a class3 license. I know you know what that is. He has 2 vaults like mine, 6'x4'x30", and they are BOTH full. We are going to get together and burn a BUNCH of ammo soon. Everything from 7.62 NATO down to 9mm.
WOOHOO!!!
Mav (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Mav is the grease gun still in use? My dad talks about those with great reverence, and they were old when he was using them (circa 1970).
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M3 "Grease Gun" hasn't been used since Vietnam. Some were fitted with suppressors and used in SOG (Studies and Observations Group). They haven't been used since, and the few weapons SOG had were of WW2 manufacture. They weren't highly liked either. The most common problem being the bolt jamming on the magazine lip. Stoppages were common, and several cases were reported of crushed rounds. The bolt would snap forward, but the round wouldn't be aligned properly; CRUNCH!.
FYI, a Springfield M1A (civilian version of the M14) runs for about $1,000 brand new. The sniper variant goes for just under $2,200. The SL-8 up here has to be ordered since there's no great demand for them. According to a local gun shop, they can order one for you at $1,520 a pop. This includes scope mounting bracket, three 5-round magazines (clear plastic), and cleaning kit. They offer a scope for it at an extra $390.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/custom1.jpg)
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Dudes.
In close combat, nothing beats my 12 gauge semi automatic shotgun.
Except maybe a SPAS-12.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1619_3845234)
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch
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Originally posted by flakbait:
...FYI, a Springfield M1A (civilian version of the M14) runs for about $1,000 brand new. The sniper variant goes for just under $2,200...
I was at a gun show and the guy there was asking $2,500 for a M14 Springfield. I don't think it was a sniper version. Sounds like he was just trying to rip people off. That's what turned me off from buying a real Springfield. I would have forked out and extra $300 for the real thing but not an extra $1,500. I'm glad I didn't have the money to do it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I bought my Norinco used at a gun store. I'm glad I didn't have the money to impulse buy at the gun show. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by funked:
Mav is the grease gun still in use? My dad talks about those with great reverence, and they were old when he was using them (circa 1970).
Funked,
The grease gun is still in limited use. It was issued as a side arm for Armor crewmen. There aren't too many but the Guard Armor units still using the M60 version of tanks still have it in their TOE (Table of Organization and Equipment) I think the M1 crews are being issued the CAR 16 instead of the grease gun as that would eliminate the need for .45 ammo. Nothing else in the "normal" military inventory needs .45's. This is outside of the "special ops" folks who still may be using the old 45 as a special tactical weapon.
I never had a problem with the grease gun as far as jamming or mangling rounds. The problem cited by another person (can't recall who now darnit) sounds like a simple case of a bad magazine. That can happen with ANY magazine fed weapon of the lips of the mag are bent or damaged. Pulling on the magazine as a handle instead of the magazine well can also pull the magazine out of alignment with the receiver and interfere with feeding. You'll only hold the barrel during firing once. It heats up REAL fast and is only about 8" long.
The grease gun fires from an open bolt so the mechanism is extremely simple. The firing pin is actually a small protruding bump welded on the face of the bolt, like a bb. As the bolt goes forward the bump hits the primer and it goes bang.
There are two main variants of the gun. The M-3 and M3A1. The difference is the cocking handle on the M3A1. The M3 has a notch cut into the bolt that you place your finger into and pull the bolt back until it locks. It was very hard for a soldier to do with gloves and the lever solved that problem.
The cover over the ejection port was also the safety. With the cover closed a small welded on piece of steel protruded into the path of the bolt to stop it from traveling forward. Very simple but effective. The damn thing could go off if the seer was tripped and the cover was holding the bolt so it's a REAL good idea to pull the mag or make sure the weapon is pointing in a safe direction before opening the cover.
The M3 was designed (if you can call it a design) to be very simple and cheap. It is so cheap the rear sight is a small tab welded to the top with a hole drilled through it to look through. Most had the hole off center too! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The front sight is a small piece of steel welded vertically to the top of the receiver behind where the barrel screws in. It was very reliable and fun to shoot. Shooting from the shoulder tended to turn it into an anti aircraft gun if you didn't watch it. The wire stock wasn't much of a cheek rest and only the first shot could really be called an aimed shot.
There was a quite noticeable delay from pulling the trigger and the actual slamming of the bolt forward. Since it was a straight blow back design the bolt is VERY heavy and the spring pressure on release really jolts the gun. It is for short range only. Anything past 30 to 50 yards is a spray and pray situation.
Rate of fire is not fast compared to a 9mm gun. Instead pf a BRAAAAAT, you get a chug chug chug kind of fire. I "think" it's about 200 rounds per minute. It's been a while since I was actively working with it.
Mav
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I think there are still new versions of the Sten gun being built and used in special forces type teams. That too is a WWII design buy the British. The MP 40 can still be found in some guerrilla forces in the world. It is a WWII German design. One of the finest sub-machine guns EVER made was the Suomi m/1931. It was a Finnish design and is still considered one of the best. The best US sub-machine gun of the war is rarely even heard of and it's the UD M'42. No one ever talks about it. I think it is amazing sometimes how much WWII equipment and design is still out there in use. The Israeli army still uses M3 half tracks. They might be in second line service now but I saw one on the news several months ago on patrol!
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UUgghh Im up in austin again and My GF beats me whenever I get on the AH board, so I wont be having my .5 second post response time for a few days (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Mav, whats it take to get a class 3 these days? last I heard You had to be ex-military, or in some cases ex-cop, I dont want one or anything, just curious. I guy donw the road from my friends house in Inez has one and for the fist 3 monthe after he moved in he would go down to the creek bed (same one my pepper incident happened in) and shoot his M4 carb with telescoping stock I think) I dont know where he got it but he got the cops called on him a couple of times before everyone realized David Koresh(sp) didnt move in next door. My gf's uncle (one I bought SL8 from) actually has a room in his house (bedroom) that he converted into a gun safe, it has a normal LOOKING door but its actually a reinforced steel door with the biggest hinges i have ever seen (6 of them) he has quite a few but many are really old collector's guns that would probably kill ya if ya tried to shoot them, but he also has some crazy modern stuff like a steyer, and this other crazy looking bullpup thing that i can never remember the name of, i think he has at least 50k worth the guns in there easy and even to me thats sounds a bit nuts, but hey its the kinda "nuts" I like (not trying to sound homo-erotic)
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Yup Mav, I was issued a "greasegun" when I ended up in the Pa Guard after MP time(1990). Was kind of funny, and I kept wondering if I could borrow it for WW2 reenacting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Pretty sure they transitioned to M1's by now though.
I did find it more reliable than the Stens I played with.
Coolest thing I got to play with courtesy of Uncle Sam was prolly the Mk19, though I never got to shoot many live rounds (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Now thats a gun for plinkin!
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Wobble,
I think the requirements for a class 3 are about the same as for being a dealer. Your best bet is to simply call up the BATF and ask. They can tell you pretty quickly. Just do it from a pay phone far away from your house and disguise your voice. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
If you get a class 3 I believe you have to register EVERY firearm and pay a transfer tax on all class 3 purchases, maybe sales too. I never was that interested in getting one so didn't check it out much.
Mav
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Class 3= 5000 round plinking session, no i dont think I want a class 3 either, I can see headlines.
MAN MORTGUAGES HOUSE TO:
"buy some more .223 ammo".
Film at 11.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Wobble,
Ya gotta start reloading bud! A reload can cost less than 1/3 of factory depending on the round. After all, if you use regular brass and not the blazer stuff you can generally reload it. I have some 22-250 brass that has been reloaded for over 20 years. I guess there are some of it that has at least 5 firings on it. I check for stretching etc. but if it checks out I keep using it.
Last time I checked some 9mm, 38, .357 or 45's all with plain lead bullets cost less than $6.00 a hundred. Of course that's with me doing the work on my own equipment at home. I can get about 100 loaded in less than 30 minutes on my progressive and weigh every 10th powder charge as a check.
Look into it. It's not hard to learn and saves BIG bucks for shooting. I can give you some recommendations on loading equipment and resources.
Mav
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Mav, Ive had pretty bad luck with reloading, my reloading machine aint that great though, the problem I have is with my Automatic pistols, it is that when using reloads i often get those "hot" and "cold" rounds, as in one shot is VERY powerful and then another doesent have enough pop to rack the slide back, i like using reloads in my revolver though. i guess i just need to measure my grains better (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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The M3 was still in wide spread use during Desert Storm, haven't seen one since then. Favorite weapon I've fired has to be the Mk19. There's just something about an automatic 40mm grenade launcher that gives ya a big chubby (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://raubvogel.tripod.com/signew.gif)
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Wobble do a search for Dillon products. They are an Arizona based company that has made a big change in reloading. They make all types of reloading tools and have an iron clad guarantee. I have one of their early progressive presses and it still works like a champ.
It sounds like you have a problem with your powder measure. I still check mine every 10th round even though I have never found more than a 1/10th grain variation including rifle powders. Check out dillon, good stuff at good prices and fantastic support. I had a primer tube that after 4 years got scratched and it held up the flow. I sent it to dillon and asked how much for a replacement. I got not one but 2 for each size primer back at no charge inside of 4 days. I can't give them enough credit for how they do business.
I also don't push the pressure on my firearms. If it can't be done with a regular pressure load (including magnums) another 50 or 100 fps won't make a change and might over stress the weapon.
Mav
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Originally posted by LJK Raubvogel:
The M3 was still in wide spread use during Desert Storm, haven't seen one since then. Favorite weapon I've fired has to be the Mk19. There's just something about an automatic 40mm grenade launcher that gives ya a big chubby (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Try squeezing the "cadillacs" (hand control / trigger) on a tank main gun (105mm or better). You're sitting within 10 inches of the breach / chamber of the thing. When you touch it off the ENTIRE tank moves in recoil and you can see the gun recoil inside the tank almost to the wall of the turret. (You WILL die if you are behind the gun inside the turret and it goes off. You'll be about 2 inches thick.)
Many Tankers I know couldn't stop smiling for hours (me too).
Outside the turret you won't see the tracer if you blink. SABOT rounds travel in excess of 3000 meters per second. That is not a misprint and is for the 105 mm gun. The 120 is a "bit" faster. YEEHAAA!!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Mav
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God bless US of A and their constitutional rights...
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Maverick, it's diefinetly a misprint. Rheinmetall 120mm cannon shoots a sabot ("lom" in Russian) at 1600m/sec. The best antitank cannon is still the D-81 125mm, designed in late-60s. 1800m/sec. And the sabot is heavier. It can endure no more then 50 shots (AFAIR), but the modern main battle tank can survive about 20 minutes in combat (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) I am happy that I am 190cm tall and will serve in PVO (aircraft defence) in case of WAR.
From my "speciality lectures" in MBTY (cyrrilic MBTY here): "The main antitank wapon in modern warfare is a tank." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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Boroda I've read that there are still some countries using the T-34. Is this true? Could it still be a viable weapon on todays battle field?
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Boroda,
It is not a misprint. The figure came from a previously classified briefing I attended early in my Army career. I also spent quite a bit of time shooting the damn thing and it covered over 2000 yards in far less than a second. Your source may have the "sanitized" information that was released for general publication.
Mav
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Originally posted by Jimdandy:
Boroda I've read that there are still some countries using the T-34. Is this true? Could it still be a viable weapon on todays battle field?
Yes, it's a very good tank for internal security. In fact, many southern American countries still use the M5 Stuart (and variants of that) for internal security.
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Originally posted by Wmaker:
God bless US of A and their constitutional rights...
Yes some of us are very proud of our constitution and we cherish our rights. However had you really been reading you would have noticed that this is Army hardware I was talking about. Even in the U.S. you are not allowed to own a fully functional M60 class tank.
I hope you didn't get too envious of our freedoms. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Mav
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Maverick, my information is almost 10 years old. I studied at Moscow High Technical College, now it's called Moscow State Technical Univesity, Spechial Machinery department, M4 - "Physics and Techniques of Explosive and Impact processes". Didn't finish it, had to quit on the 4th year, but still remember something (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
We were told that M1A1 has a smoothbore 120mm cannon with 1600m/s muzzle velocity. D-81 has 1800m/s. Maybe in last 10 years US Army changed the cannon on M1A2, but 3000m/s sounds like a science fiction to me.
The best link I found on this subject is http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ammunition/rheinmetall/index.html (http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ammunition/rheinmetall/index.html) - but it has no data on muzzle velocity. Maybe the 140mm gun they mention there has a faster projectile?
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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Originally posted by Maverick:
However had you really been reading you would have noticed that this is Army hardware I was talking about.
...and had you really been reading you would have noticed that I WASN'T talking about Army hardware!! I didn't reply to you nor quote you in anyway...IF you noticed...
Originally posted by Maverick:
Even in the U.S. you are not allowed to own a fully functional M60 class tank.
This word "Even" in the start of your sentence was kind of my point...
Originally posted by Maverick:
I hope you didn't get too envious of our freedoms. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Mav
Nope Maverick, thanks for your concern tho (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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Originally posted by von Werrer:
Yes, it's a very good tank for internal security. In fact, many southern American countries still use the M5 Stuart (and variants of that) for internal security.
Cool thanks for the info. I'm always amazed at how some of the WWII stuff is still showing up almost 60 years later.
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Do you know its possible to build a Sten gun, in most household garages, with basic machine tools? And during WWII alot of them were built in just this way.
Colt AR15 Heavy Match Barrel, Harris Light Bipod, x4-12 Variable Magnification 44mm apeture optics (cheapie model but still works very well) is my baby. You can hit a quarter (coin) sized target at 100m with just about every shot with cheapo military surplus ammunition if your a decent shot.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Let's get back to the point of this thread...
TheWobble is an idiot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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Originally posted by Jimdandy:
I'm always amazed at how some of the WWII stuff is still showing up almost 60 years later.
Finnish Defence Force still has some KP/-31 Suomi submachine guns...1931 model!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It's one of the best submachine guns used during WW2. It isn't quite in operational use but they still fire them occasionally.
Here's a link: http://guns.connect.fi/gow/suomi1.html (http://guns.connect.fi/gow/suomi1.html)
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"Let's get back to the point of this thread...
TheWobble is an idiot
Eagler"
LOL
Gee thanks eagler for sticking to the topic line (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Boroda,
I am absolutely sure that your Moscow university knows much more about the U. S. tank main gun than the U. S. Army Armor School and it's weapons development team does. Not to mention my personal experiance in using the weapon system.
Mav
ps I was talking about the 105mm for the figure I quoted.
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Man someone is getting a little testy.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 02-06-2001).]
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Maverick, I said that my data is 10 years old. Maybe Rheinmetall engineers could invent a cannon that fires 3000m/s rounds duuring that 10 years. And believe me - if a tank commander in the US knew it - we had to know it too.
D-81 fired a standart sabot antitank projectile at 1800m/s. AFAIK it was the fastest projectile in a cannon built in large series in early-90s. It was a late-60s design, and when we asked if there were better cannons designed later - our professors said "what for?".
I can admit that you can reach higher muzzle-velosities if you use a lighter projectile. But 3 km/s - it's a joke. 3 km/s is a speed of a detonation wave. There is a way to detonate a charge of a ballistit powder in a cannon chamber - but it will be the one and the last shot.
No offences please, but we were taught to design projectiles for such cannons.
What was the resourse of this cannon? How many shots?
What about the recoil?
Or maybe it was a kind of a magnetic cannon? I simply can't imagine how this thing works...
NB: I do not want to get any classified information from you. Just curious how did the things change since I left college (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As for T-34 - it's still used in many African countries like Angola, in Iraq and some other Arab countries, in Yugoslavia etc. AFAIK it's mobility, armour and firepower was no worse then some US tanks used in Vietnam. The main problem must be reliability (they are OLD!) and motor resourse.
You can laugh, but IS-2 heavy tanks were used for the last time at the maneuvers of the Odessa Military District in 1982, and were assigned off-duty only in 1994!!! I wonder if there remained any of those that were in the streets of Berlin in 1945... There were rumours that old T-10 and even IS-3 tanks are sill on duty on Chineese border, in some fortified posiions.
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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Maybe it was 3000 feet per second? Isn't metric system strange?
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For you Animal... cause you're so sexy.
Now get that shirt off and start shooting pepperspray with your girlfriend.
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Gawd you scared me... thought he was back.:eek:
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Gawd you scared me... thought he was back.
In his 3/4 size mustang lol :)
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I'll go with Boroda on the muzzle velocity of approx 1600m/s (depends on which round M829A1 is approx 1600m/s, M829A2 is up 100m/s, M829E3 is supposedly up another 60m/s or so).
According to basic governing thermodynamic laws, the velocity at which chemical SP could accelerate a projectile is controlled by the velocity at which a gas could physically expand. For all practical purposes, contemporary 120-mm guns may ultimately reach a muzzle velocity of 1800-2000+ m/sec. Future 140mm guns (if fielded) may reach an extended muzzle velocity of 2100-2300+ m/sec while their effective ‘kill’ range will not exceed 6-7 km at best.
ARMOR September-October 1997 p30 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/5fcs97.pdf)
Even the mighty US military has to bow to the laws of thermodynamics.
PDF link (graph on Page 14) (http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/fulcrum_main.pl?database=ft_u2&searchid=103529352410282&keyfieldvalue=ADA355855&filename=%2Ffulcrum%2Fdata%2FTR_fulltext%2Fdoc%2FADA355855.pdf)