Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hblair on April 30, 2001, 12:13:00 PM
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What a buncha amateurs. They ever heard of testing?
<g,d,r>
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Agreed. I'm all for safety, especially considering the recent deaths in auto racing and I am not advocating they should have gone on with the race, but they should have known well before the day of the race IMHO.
It is my understanding that Texas Motor Speedway authorities as late as last week made cart aware of their concerns in ref. to the speeds and even made recommendations as they cannot make rules. Cart officials said they didn't have time for testing?
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The funny thing is they did test Hblair....back in like November when the temps were nothing near what they would be racing in April. Makes alotta sense dont it?
These cars were doing 230 freeking miles-per-hour in qualifying!!! Thats pretty damn fast when you are driving in a circle on a 24 degree bank. I was a little disappointed that they didnt find a way to slow them down so they could run it anyway. It just seems that they came into the weekend a little unprepared. Texas Motor Speedway even asked them if they were sure they didnt want to test some more and from what I understand CART told them that they were ok with it the way it was. Go figure.
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They were driving in near blackout g-force conditions.
Tunnel vision in a fighter is one thing, tunnel vision on a closed track with a car 5 feet to your right is another.
Glad they stopped it... wondering what the hell the track designers were thinking. And as far as CART officials go... what did you expect out of this group?
Has anyone seen the track workers at Talladega try to clean up an oil spill in one of the corners? Its a riot. Their trucks can't even make the climb reliably. They almost have to repell down from the top of the bank.
AKDejaVu
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I agree DJV...those speeds and those G-forces were a little ridiculous, but if they can find a way to slow down a stock car at Talladega and Daytona, why cant they find a way to slow down a CART car at Texas? And they had since November to figure out a way to do it.
It just doesn't make much sense to me. But you can bet that Tony George or whatever that IRL guy's name is was sitting back and having a good laugh about this one for sure. There sure were a lot of pissed off folks at the track yesterday when I got there. I imagine Creamo may have been one of them....all the way from Reno and didnt get to see the race. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Yep Sling is right. They should have figured this one out last winter.
They do have ways to slow the cars down on the ovals, but the problem is that the engineers keeping making the car faster. Even with all the reductions in power and lift/drag ratio, the cars are faster than anything in the history of racing.
Which is why you do a thorough test at a new track to make sure the cars aren't too fast. Duh!
PS I did a rough calculation and I came up with 3 g AVERAGE including straightaways at this track. I am guessing they were up near 6 g in the turns. I'm sure F-1 drivers could handle it, but flabby guys like Tracy or Andretti were probably gasping. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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PS I did a rough calculation and I came up with 3 g AVERAGE including straightaways at this track. I am guessing they were up near 6 g in the turns. I'm sure F-1 drivers could handle it, but flabby guys like Tracy or Andretti were probably gasping. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
LOL! You troll! I'd expect this comment out of those soccer playing Euro-trash racing fan wannabes.. but you too Funked? Et tu? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 04-30-2001).]
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I'm sure some of the CART guys are in good enough shape for F-1, but I'm pretty sure that fitness had something to do with both Tracy and Andretti flopping in their attempts to go for the big prize.
It's also interesting that two of the tubbiest drivers in CART history are both well-known for making big mistakes late in the race. HUFF PUFF PANT CRAAAAAAAAASH.
(Gil de Ferran Fan) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-30-2001).]
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RPM.espn.com had some stories on their site today, Funked, that said the G-forces were double what they are used to on a normal track. There is even some speculation now that the 2 guys who crashed in practice crashed because of blacking out temporarily. Prolly just a rumor though.
[This message has been edited by sling322 (edited 04-30-2001).]
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Yep I did some reading and it looks like my estimate was pretty good - 6.3 g by Kanaan on his 236.7 lap. I'm sure they could take it for a while, but 400 times? Eeeek!
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-30-2001).]
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If you black-out, I'm pretty certain they would be aware of that.
I've greyed out once and while I didnt really realise what had happened until I got back on the ground, it was obvious that that was the case. What was the drivers explanations of the crash?.
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
www.56thfightergroup.org (http://www.56thfightergroup.org)
This is Yardstick, follow me"
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Dunno Daff....never found anything in the story about what the drivers said about it. One of them dropped out totally because he said he was stiff from the crash and the other was gonna run a back-up car. Like I said, its probably just rumor about blackouts causing their crashes in practice.
I couldnt believe how fast those guys were going though...it was unbelieveable. 230 mph in a car?!?! The first time I went to a NASCAR Winston Cup event, I was amazed by the speed of it. It seems so much faster in person than seeing it on TV, but these cars were 40-45 mph faster than Winston cup cars on this same track! Un-frickin-believeable.
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Bah--for real speed you need to watch Top Fuel drag racing.... 0 to 300+ MPH in under 5 seconds!
Hehehe...seriously, CART rocks. Unlike NASCAR, CART doesn't pretend to be racing "stock" cars.
J_A_B
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So Funked, why aint ya in the WB's/AH GPL League??? We've run Kayalami and Monaco, and Zandvoort is this Sat. With all the "augers" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) during the races, you could get right in the thick of the points race with a high finish this weekend.
Ya aint chicken, are ya??
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cabby
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=44th FS "VAMPIRES"=
"The Jungle Air Force"
Welcome To The Jungle!!!"
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Originally posted by sling322:
I couldnt believe how fast those guys were going though...it was unbelieveable. 230 mph in a car?!?! The first time I went to a NASCAR Winston Cup event, I was amazed by the speed of it. It seems so much faster in person than seeing it on TV, but these cars were 40-45 mph faster than Winston cup cars on this same track! Un-frickin-believeable.
I was at Talledega in '87 during Bill Elliot's legendary run. I believe he qualified at 212mph, and ran up to like 218 in the race. I do remember this for sure, He lapped the entire field.
Open wheeled cars are fer gurls. <g,d,r> (again)
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You guys are still racing with sedans with -70's technology?
Would be fun to see one of those racing against this (http://www.geocities.com/tinglouie/MercedesCLR1.jpg) one. Too bad you dumped those nasty CanAm cars... Heck even old "Interseries" Porsche 917/30 (http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/1959/917_30.html) would blow your sedans away.
Your CART's suck too. They're just oversized and overweight formula cars.
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the breaking point of the next turn, then you have enough horsepower."
"In 1973 this was the world's most powerful sportscar. With 12 cylinders and 1200 horsepower... IT STILL IS."
(Mark Donohue, Porsche 917/30)"
(Just Kidding, Relax...)
edit: In middle -80's BMW's engineers estimated their F-1 turbo engine did gave 1400hp in qualification race. Thought motor lasted only 10 laps (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 04-30-2001).]
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Staga, say what you want about CART cars, but they are the fastest cars in the history of racing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Quote from another BB:
I was in Montreal in 81, I was in the pits infront of the Ferrari pits ( ahhh the good old days, you could do that then) I asked a Ferrari mechanic that burning Question,"what is the diff between the two cars?" He smiled @ me and said " ya know turn 5? an Indy car goes 70mph and we go 110mph.
Apples and Oranges (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Heh I just found this:
Q: If a Formula One car raced gainst a CART machine, which would win?
A: On a twisty course, like the one built at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the U.S. Grand Prix, CART's Michael Andretti would have no chance against F1's Michael Schumacher. Though the engines for both open-wheel racers produce about 800 horsepower, F1 cars are about 400 pounds lighter. Says Andretti, who raced on the F1 circuit in 1993, "That helps with braking, cornering, and acceleration. An F1 car is going to outperform CART in all those areas." Opinions are split as to whether the same would be true on an oval. Derrick Walter, a former F1 mechanic who owns Walker Racing team, which competes in CART and IRL, believes the CART machine, with a top speed of 240 mph (to the F1's 225), would rule. Andretti, though, thinks the F1's weight advantage would give it the edge. So, does the bulkier CART vehicle have any advantage over an F1 car? "Yes," Andretti says. "In an accident."
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I agree with everything you said staga. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) F1, Can Am, all that good stuff is way faster than nascar. But ya know what else? The racing sucks big 'uns. I go to sleep watching that BS.
<g,d,r> (yet again)
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Staga, that information is all out of date. Since 1993 F-1 has seen an increase in weight, and multiple reductions in horsepower, tire size, downforce, plus a move from sticky slicks to greasy grooved tires. The balance has shifted in a big way. CART cars are faster in every aspect now. F-1 cars no longer have the grip or power to match CART cars in acceleration or cornering.
PS 4 years ago at Michigan, Andre Ribiero's Honda recorded 258 mph through the radar trap. Chew on that Euros. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-30-2001).]
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Yeah! What funked said. Our open wheelers rewl! Euro racing hugs! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Still trying to find some info on the web.. but Oldsmobile made a prototype quad 4 vehicle that held the land speed record at daytona... all four cylinders of it. Some 1200 horsepower (if memory serves correct) out of a 4 cylinder.
A Porsche Groupe B was also ran at Daytona against a NASCAR ride in the late 80's. I'm pretty sure the results were a toss up. One would beat the other.. then the crews would make some adjustments (new chip in Porsche.. more duct tape on NASCAR) and the results would change. Wish I still had that Car and Driver article.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by funked:
Staga, that information is all out of date. Since 1993 F-1 has seen an increase in weight, and multiple reductions in horsepower, tire size, downforce, plus a move from sticky slicks to greasy grooved tires.
your right funked,
BUT on many tracks the Lap times decreased during the last years,
with all those things you mentioned above (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
some fastest laps examples from Monaco:
1992 - Nigel Mansell at 1:21,598 min
1993 - Alain Prost at 1:23,604 min
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1998 - Mika Häkkinen at 1:22,948 min
1999 - Mika Häkkinen at 1:22,259 min
2000 - Mika Häkkinen at 1:21,571 min
fastest laps examples from Suzuka:
1992 - Nigel Mansell at 1:40,646 min
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2000 - Mika Häkkinen at 1:39,189 min
fastest laps examples from Interlagos:
1992 - Riccardo Patrese at 1:19,490 min
1993 - Michael Schumacher at 1:20,024 min
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2000 - Michael Schumacher at 1:14,755 min
i could go on, but you see the point ?
greets
Gh0stFT
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They tested, they knew, yet they waited till the last second to popsicle out...I mean make a decision?
I knew that track would be a S.O.B., thats exactly why I bought tickets. But so did CART, and certainly the IRL.
Don't these guys have THROTTLES to control the speed and G forces? Let the man with the biggest nads and heaviest foot win. The rest will be less stressed, and behind in the points.
Anywho, anyone wanna buy 2 start/finish 28 row tickets? Bet CART wont figure I need a refund on my vacation days or my tickets.
NASCAR fan (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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LOL! You troll! I'd expect this comment out of those soccer playing Euro-trash racing fan wannabes..
Not sure where Indy500 fits into this discussion but last time Nigel Mansell drove that thing (after retiring from F1 that is!) he walked all over your boys or should I say "he drove all over them"? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)...
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GhostFT same happened with old Group-B and new Group-A/WRC rallycars.
Old B's were having +500hp (+600 if needed) and in couple years Gr.A cars got same times in same races because development of tires, suspensions and transmissons with about 350hp.
Yeah, Gr.B cars...
Chitload of brute power in a plastic bag... Thought it really was a sight seeing them fly from jump to jump... and those flames out of exhaust pipes... and those sounds (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
To give you an idea of the kind of performance GroupB cars were capable of I'll mention that in the 1986 season Henri Toivonen made two laps around the Estoril circuit, during a stage of the Portuguese rally, the fastest of which, in 1 minute and 18,1 seconds, would have qualified him in the sixth position of the F1 Grand Prix that same season. Ayrton Senna had the Pole Position in the 1986 Portuguese Grand Prix in 1 minute and 16,7 seconds...Toivonen was using the Lancia Delta S4 and was accompanied by his usual co-driver Sergio Cresto.
(Not sure but it could be in wet track)
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I remember telling some folks at work when this thing was first being talked about how ridiculous it was going to be.
The IRL events at Charlotte and the like are bad enough. It's one thing to race open-wheel cars on a track like Indy, or even Michigan, but D-shaped 1.5 mile Superspeedways are ridiculous.
I'm glad I didn't invest time, energy, vacation time, and money like Creamo, 'cause I'd be pissed. Really, really pissed.
Since I didn't, I can say I'm glad they DID call it off, although it's a freakin' joke that they waited until they did. An absolute joke that shows that the current CART administration has no idea what the shreck it's doing.
This soon after Earnhardt, the last thing I felt like seeing was more slow-moving ambulances carrying bodies away from the track.
This whole "vicious circle" thing was started by that moron George by racing IRL cars at tracks that they have no reason to be at, and CART, in it's infinite wisdom, decided to be just as stupid.
Again, I'd be pissed as hell if I had spent money on tickets, plane tickets, vacation time, hotel rooms, "mad money" and the like, only to be told at the very, very end it was not to be, but at least the drivers have a chance to live.
I guess now would be the time for F1 to step up, and do a race there themselves. Indy's road course seemed to be a good draw, and this would be a chance to show the US what big, burly he-men they are, and how superior their cars are.
Everyone but Schumacher. He needs to race Nascar. Even though he speaks English, he'd need a translator, but I think he's got the right temperment for Nascar.
I wonder what Ferrari could do with the standard 358 block they use? Mmmmmmm...
Mk
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I'm glad I didn't invest time, energy, vacation time, and money like Creamo, 'cause I'd be pissed. Really, really pissed.
No problemo my good man. Being pissed off, and being pissed on has ultimate diffrences. Either way, being pissed aint going to do ...SHIT.
I was with my brother who lives states away and we just peeled off and had fun anyway..of course. CART racers are tards now...what can ya do but head to a bar and talk with yer brother?
Its like everyday Aces High guys that get good at life enough to have $1500 computers, cool TM sticks ala joysticks that make EVERYTHING easier, scoping around a sweet 360 view system as a 'Ol boy trys to track off a 2 button switch stick, and they just waste him.
AND..still... squeak like old fuking hags that the CV ack is wrong or something....
See?
Peace, you whiney tools (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 05-01-2001).]
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Lynx, Mansell never won at Indy.
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I saw a report as I tuned in to watch the race. (I was hoping to see Creamo get a drink thrown on himas he tried to pick up some ugly Texan two toothed squeak.)
They showed that the IRL guys were doing laps at 228MPH and CART was doing 235MPH. Would it make much difference? 7MPH is not a big difference IMHO...both are fast enough to kill ya.
I think that CART fediddleed up by not having their toejame together in the first place. I also think CART did the right thing by cancelling the race....I don't watch a race to see people get killed. The fans safety is also a major factor at a 1.5 mile closed circuit at those speeds.
As for F1..SNORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go start your own gay F1 thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
[This message has been edited by skernsk (edited 05-01-2001).]
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Skernsk you got a bad report. The pole for that last IRL race there was 215 mph. The CART guy were lapping at over 235. Remember that g's increase with the square of speed, so the CART guys were feeling about 25% more g's. And that was enough to put them over the threshold where the doctors said it was unsafe.
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Piss Pore Preparation by CART, but when it really mattered, they made the right call.
For the same money, you could have one recipe-uno car snaking around a track feeling uber, or a whole CART race. I'll take the race. Perk Michael Schumacher!
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Lynx, Mansell never won at Indy.
Hey, he didn't... But he did finish third in his first race, did he not? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Just trolling ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(Although I do think that way too much in Indy and similar racing depends on your luck not to be hit by another car or not to get tangled in a wreck collision. F1 is somewhat different in this respect - a few years ago Michael Schumacher had his gearbox stuck in 5th gear for most of the race. He not only did not retire but went through a pit stop and finished second! He might be German and an arrogant SOB but he's a really great driver (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))