Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Toad on March 28, 2006, 11:42:55 AM
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Reading all the whi...er... commentary on ENY and Gun Shake and Bombers and this and that, it became clear to me that one point in the porridge was true.
It is long past time for equality in AH. As Gun Shake was ALWAYS present in fighters and just now GV's and Bombers are being made equal, it's time to for a little taste of the "equality stick" for fighters and bombers.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
So... you know how you can climb into your Tiger in the Transporter Room and be instantly teleported to within a few miles of your objective? How you can cover say 80-90% of the distance to another field in the twitch of a mouse button?
Well, I say it's time fighters and bombers had EQUALITY!
Just like the mighty Tiger Tank, I think my FM2 should be able to sit in the Transporter HangarRoom and be teleported by Scotty across 80-90% of the distance to another field in the blink of a mouse's eye.
Further, I think I should instantly appear at an altitude commensurate with each individual aircraft's climb profile. For example if Aircraft X, at military power and best angle can climb to 10K while covering 20 miles, then at my "spawn point" I should de-cloak at mil power, best angle speed and the appropriate altitude. Airplane Y would be slightly different depending on its performance data.
EQUALITY NOW! If a GV can do it, why shouldn't aircraft?
....of course, another option would be to make everything equal by making GV's DRIVE to the fight just like a fighter or a bomber has to do.
EQUALITY NOW!
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Let the flogging begin!
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Of course another view of equality says "Each is 5 to 10 minutes from the combat zone under current implimentation." To maintain that equality GVs must be given the jump start.
Bombers are kinda left out in the cold by it though.
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(http://www.furballunderground.com/Guest/Furball/sheep.jpg)
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Originally posted by Karnak
Of course another view of equality says "Each is 5 to 10 minutes from the combat zone under current implimentation." To maintain that equality GVs must be given the jump start.
Bombers are kinda left out in the cold by it though.
But our focus on maxium reality tempers that view of equality, does it not?
For example, it takes an aircraft flying at 240 mph 5 minutes to cover 20 miles. Quite realistic and measurable, without fear of large error.
OTOH, the Supah TIGAH can zip across 20 miles of land or intervening water in the blink of an electron. One would have to say it approaches "light speed" like the Millenium Falcon. How does that aid the cause of realism or even immersion? Do tell.
The ability to levitate a SupahTigah across water would be akin to having aircraft fly through hills rather than going around or over them.
Or is realism out the window because GV's have a special pass on that requirement as well?
And, as you say, there is that bomber issue where reality rears it's ugly head for them but not the GV's.
EQUALITY NOW!
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Originally posted by Toad
OTOH, the Supah TIGAH can zip across 20 miles of land or intervening water in the blink of an electron. One would have to say it approaches "light speed" like the Millenium Falcon. How does that aid the cause of realism or even immersion? Do tell.
It also takes a Tiger at least 5 minutes to drive to a base from the Spawn Point so when you look at it from a time factor - 5 minutes by air or 5 minutes by land - Sounds like equality to me.
It will never happen but if you want equality Toad give me a SAM in my Tiger so when you drop bombs on me in my Tiger I can shoot a SAM up you. :aok
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Realistic equality.
I say end the pain and remove the GV's completely from Aces High.:aok
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Both of those examples show a total disregard for reality.
I thought we were trying to honor reality to the maximum extent possible?
Tigers don't zip across water.
Tigers don't zip anywhere at light speed.
Immersive realism would be driving your Tiger to the fight at it's realistic speed.
SAMs on a SupahTigah?
I think you highlight where this game is headed.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Realistic equality.
I say end the pain and remove the GV's completely from Aces High.:aok
Sniff Sniff - Baits a little stale.
<------ Swims away.
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Toad is right. It should take GVs longer. But then we also need to put in the realistic factor of a large airfield having 60 or 70 gun implacements including 50mm, 55mm, 88mm 105mm and 128mm Flak Batteries. OH, did you forget that most of the aircraft downed in WWII were from ground fire?
In 1944 Flak accounted for 3,501 American planes destroyed, enemy fighters shot down about 600 less in the same time period.
http://www.ww2guide.com/flak.shtml (http://www.ww2guide.com/flak.shtml)
Hummmm. Lets not forget the Barrage Balloons to prevent vulching and low flying Buffs.
Yes. Let the armor have normal transport distances. And modes of transport. You know, like a rail system to transport 50 tanks at a time. OH, and if our bombers bomb the enemy airfield runway, the enemy aircraft can't fly from it till they get dozers and work crews to fill in the holes. But then those dozers have to travel by rail also. And if you land your plane, you can't up for 30 minutes to simulate actual refuel and rearm times. And Buffs, you can fly a formation of 3 buffs, but only if you can get 30 players to fly with you.
Yes, normal travel time from base to base needs to be implimented. But you need to impliment these other factors as well. :p
LTARsqrl <>
P.S. The Barrage Balloon thing might actually be a good idea. :aok
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I am cool with tons of flak at airfields. That would drive fights away from the fields. In fact, some people might give up on field capture and just fight in aircraft. GREAT IDEA! Add TONS and TONS of flak!!!!
Barrage balloons at fields, factories, cities and towns is cool with me too, for the same reason.
You know, like a rail system to transport 50 tanks at a time.
ANOTHER GREAT IDEA! And let's have it take .... say.... one full day in "game time" to load the tanks on the train, then actual travel time, then a day to unload the armor and another day to get them fueled and armed and on the road to the target.
So... three dawn/dusk cycles after the player loads on the train he'll be driving to the fight. EXCELLENT idea!
OH, and if our bombers bomb the enemy airfield runway, the enemy aircraft can't fly from it till they get dozers and work crews to fill in the holes.
Yep, ANOTHER GREAT IDEA. Of course, "grass strip" capable aircraft, like most of the fighters, would be able to take off on any clear grassy area that was relatively flat.
No rearming is fine too but you should always be able to take up any aircraft sitting ready in the hangar. So just land and get the XO to assign you a new plane. 2 minutes tops. Same for a tank that wants to drive 6 hours to the fight after he returns to the field to, of course.
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Actually, I like the rail transport idea just as much. Granted, it would probably be a nightmare to implement on the terrains, but it would be interesting to have more rail traffic/targets
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All good ideas.
But to simplify things, lets just do away with all the GVs, and airfields and towns and just have big furballs. OH, and we could change the name to Combat Flight Simulator.
You wouldn't even have to land. You die and you instantly are spawned in the air just outside of the furball. And there could be web site where millions of fans could make and submit different versions of WWII aircraft. And mod the planes so Ponies could fly at 700 knots and carried unlimited ammo. Thus making it so there were no realistic flights or fights. And then any new players that came on could just get reamed by the "Ol Timers" of the game. Yup. Nothing but a furball sounds good . . . . . to you.
Aces High is a good game because it has elements for ALL players. Not just the fighter jocks. You want a "Fighters Only Game"? Try CFS. You will be bored in no time at all.
LTARsqrl <>
P.S. When firing large weapons, the weapons shake, but the gunners eyes don't blur. Recoil is taken by the mounts, by the recoil mechnism in the gun and also by the gunners own arms and body.
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
All good ideas.
But to simplify things, lets just do away with all the GVs, and airfields and towns and just have big furballs. be bored in no time at all.
LTARsqrl <>
I you SIR!
You are just FULL of GREAT IDEAS!
Doing away with GV's is YOUR BEST IDEA SO FAR! I don't think HT is going to go for it however, so perhaps making them more realistic is the best we can hope for and as we've seen, you are in agreement on that idea.
BTW, doing away with airfields or towns would be unnecessary after the GV's were gone. AH was a great game WITH airfields and a capture feature long before GV's were ever implemented in the game.
BTW, have you tried WW2OL? I hear it has great GV action.
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Then all the fighter jocks would complain about people camping the planes spawn point. LOLOLOL
JMFJ
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As a matter of fact, I have tried WWIIOL. Came back to Aces High because it had better "Squad Based Action" and the unlimited ability to drive armor and other vehicles which WWIIOL doesn't have. But yes, the armor they do have is very good. And the game play was very good, but it is such a large area and the fact that most of the time you can't get any armor and are forced into a roll that you don't want brought me back to Aces High.
I play Aces High for the ground vehicle aspect of the game. You obviously don't. Aces High is a better game because it has BOTH aspects of the game. Plan enough for most to see and understand.
LTARsqrl <>
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Since both aircraft are moving at high speeds it wouldn't be the "shooting fish in a barrel" thrilling experience that GV spawn camping provides though.
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Aces High is a better game because it has BOTH aspects of the game. LTARsqrl <>
Did you play AH a lot before it even had GV's?
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6 guys crossing back in forth over a 300 stretch, would be like popping pt boats that can only fire the way they are facing.
Oh please bring this out, It would be like spawn camping a gv spawn with a twist. I need a change up from the same ol same spawn camping. lol
JMFJ
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Originally posted by Toad
Since both aircraft are moving at high speeds it wouldn't be the "shooting fish in a barrel" thrilling experience that GV spawn camping provides though.
oh come on... you know you would be able to camp an air start spawn. :lol
i can do it on one of the air start maps like the old terrain used for that competition. aircraft spawn for one base was 10k. just do high/low yo-yo's around it, and boom, you can kill a plane before then engine even fully starts :aok
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No, I didn't. I looked for a game that was fun and based on WWII. I saw AH on the "Wings" channel. Checked it out online and noticed it had GVs. Decided to try it. Liked it.
Found that if the planes didn't have to do an ILS approach to the field, I suked in them. Found that GVs were a lot of fun and was invited to join a great GV squad. Have since flown fighters and buffs but GVs are still my favorite. Or were till this headshake drove me out of them. But the point of this game is to have fun. My fun lies in ground vehicles. It is what I am good in.
If you don't like ground vehicles, it is your loss. I happen not to like furballing. That is my loss.
The game is good because it caters to both you and me. I don't fault you for not liking GVs, don't fault me for liking them.
LTARsqrl <>
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10 random spawns 10k yards apart solves your problem.
EQUALITY men... EQUALITY and REALISM!!!
UNITE!
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Originally posted by MadSquirrel
No, I didn't.
LTARsqrl <>
Then you really can't make any comparison, can you?
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Yes I can. I have played flight games the way it appears you would like AH to be. There for there is a comparison.
If Aces High was so great the way it was, HTC would not have changed it now would they.
Seems to me they wanted to expand the player base which they did. If they had not, there wouldn't be an Aces HighII. Just an old floppy disk on the shelf with faded print reading "Aces High. The Fighter Pilots Game"
LTARsqrl <> :lol
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Oh, they expanded the player base alright. You can see the results any prime time in the MA. The results are not pretty, particularly on the text buffer. The resulting "HordeWarrior" gameplay style isn't anything to be cherished either.
Adding players did not, does not and would not necessarily "improve" the game.
As to your assumption that without an expanded player base there would not have been an AH2, it's an assumption.
IIRC, HT said AH1 was a success, so it's unlikely it would have just faded out without GV's.
The only thing GV's added was something to do for the guys that don't have enough persistence to learn to fight in the air. They make "fighting" more simple.
Were they removed in toto tomorrow I seriously doubt it would spell then end of AH.
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Originally posted by Toad
BTW, have you tried WW2OL? I hear it has great GV action.
i bet wwiiol is too complicated for them. i play that game too - although i much prefer aces high on a whole, land warfare in wwiiol blows AH out the water.
they want their magical spawn, pointy click spawncamping unrealistic GV war, not war simulation.
can you say 'Tank Quake'?
maybe when you spawnpoint 5 tanks in a row you should get a 'M-M-M-MONSTER KILL!'
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So let me understand this:
You don't like GV's spawning in cause it's not realistic
So you propose air craft spawning in (which would classify as not realistic)
Then leave us with a quote of realistic and equality
your post is neither, wierd.
JMFJ
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This from the man that just set a Personal Best spawncamping in a Tiger.
Anyway, just saying..... Equality works both ways.
Which way do you want it? No spawn out for any vehicle or spawn out for every vehicle?
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Close thread to to original flaim bait post.
HiTech