Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: TheWobble on January 28, 2001, 09:32:00 AM
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I was watching TV and I flipped past Nickelodeon(sp) and watched a 10 minute cartoon who's "lesson" is that "its ok to lose" the kids are playing soccer and they are losing bad and this one kid is upset and really wants to win and they make this big deal about "its not weather you win or lose but weather you have fun" at the end they lose horribly but its ok because the coach has bought everyone ice cream, the toon fades out with them all smiling chanting "we're # 2!!, We're # 2!!"
I think this sends a message to kids that failure in competition and thus life is not a big deal and that not achieving goals is acceptable.
I wasn't taught but am naturally very competitive, I get upset when I lose and try very hard to accel at everything I do. I feel that WINNING IS FUN.
So basically there are 2 stances..
"its not weather you win or lose, but weather you have fun"
VS
"winning is fun"
personally im getting tired of this feel good crap they try to spoon feed kids, god forbid a kid be upset with himself when he screws up. "its ok to fail at stuff, its acceptable, we still love you"
I think that's a dangerous way to motivate children..or lack there of.
Where do You stand???
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for me a good loser is a LOSER.
One thing is to carry on with the bad feelings, and to congratule the winner.
other thing is to say "I dont mind losing".
Whe who doesnt mind losing or winning, most times will end *-always-* losing.
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when I lose the only grudge I hold is against MYSELF, and it goes away when I win again, good way to self motivate IMO.
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Well lets put it this way. Life isn't perfect for anyone and toejam happens. What I hope they are trying to get across is that you can't let a loss stop you. Learn from your mistake and try again. If you give up at the first loss you have you'll never be good at anything. It is ok to lose. It means you participated but the other guy was better and a lot of times just flat luckier. I hope what there trying to get across is that you will run into set backs in life and how you decide to handle them can be a major factor in what happens afterward. Do you just give up and never try again or take it in stride and move on. Most of the time games end with a winner and a loser. Even the greatest lose at times. They learn form it and go on if they are truly great. The old saying goes that if your not making mistakes your not doing anything. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Ooops
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-28-2001).]
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I see yer point jim, but this toon wasnt saying "sometimes the best lose dont take it too hard"
it was saying (to me) "its ok to lose, dont expect to win and your feelings wont get hurt when ya lose"
like I said "feelgood crap"
VERY VERY good assesment though <S>
EDIT: "oops" quit "oops" ing on my thread you multi-submitting twitchy bastid! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) <S>
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
I see yer point jim, but this toon wasnt saying "sometimes the best lose dont take it too hard"
it was saying (to me) "its ok to lose, dont expect to win and your feelings wont get hurt when ya lose"
like I said "feelgood crap"
VERY VERY good assesment though <S>
EDIT: "oops" quit "oops" ing on my thread you multi-submitting twitchy bastid! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) <S>
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 01-28-2001).]
Yes I've seen it too. I'm not exactly sure what there trying to do with that kind of show. It's what I call Barnyfied crap. It's funny though. I am a pessimist generally. I go into a situation ready to lose but doing my damnedest to win. I usually do just fine but I always know that no matter how good I am there is always someone better. I try to never underestimate my opponent. I think thats another reason to teach kids loss. Never underestimate your opponent.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Let me preface these comments by saying that I have spent 25 years in coaching athletes of all ages in a variety of sports. I myself am/was a competitive athlete.
Winning and losing are intertwined, you cannot have one without the other. That is a fact of life. Sports, as a metaphor for life, reflect this fact. If you play long enough, you lose in either one.
No one ever said you need to enjoy defeat; the important thing is that you learn something from it. A mistake unexamined is a lesson unlearned. You will, as the adage says "repeat history".
You actually have tapped into something here, though I doubt it is what you intended. Why do you think there is so much whining on open channel? Easy- there are many on who have not learned that you will lose a fight once in a while, no matter how good you are. Tough as it is, it is far better to salute the guy, try to figure out how he bested you, and apply that knowledge towards the next fight. You show class that way. Some fellows here seem to take loss so hard they have to diminish the efforts of the guy that bested them in order to keep self-esteem. Some of the best pilots of the game are the worst in this respect. That is a line I never want to cross, and if being the "best" means I have to go that far, well, I will never be the best then.
In my current coaching, I expect the athletes (cross-country) to tell me how they thought their races went. I don't accept what you typically hear when things go wrong ("It was crap!"), I want to hear what went wrong AND what went right. This gives a point of reference to begin planning for the next event and keeps things on a positive spin.
Now, take your Nickelodean commercial- those athletes weren't seeking to lose at the outset, right? They did find themselves in a situation where losing was pretty much inevitable. What should they do, rush the opposing bench for a brawl? Start hurling slurs? Or do they play the game out and hold their heads up when they leave? Frankly, I have been in that situation, and I think you only got to see the snapshot of the moment. As was said before, I would be interested in how the next day at practice went before I passed judgement on the message. Taking a bunch of 10-year-olds out and telling them they are dirt for losing sounds like a self-destructive tactic. Anyone can scream at a losing team; great coaches can find something positive in any situation.
One more thought for you concerning that commercial- you can have tons of knowledge, and you can even be the best at what you do and still fail as a teacher/coach. If you cannot formulate a message in a manner that your audience will accept it, you will fail. I speak from 15 years as a teacher when I say that screaming doesn't work if done regularly- any parent will tell you the same. Kids tune you out, as will adults. Far better to approach with a message the kids will buy into, then bring them around, show them you are right. In the end you must win their respect, then you have their ears. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Kieren, I very much agree with all you said, but this cartoon went a bit too far as do alot of teaching these feel good days, it more or less taught to expect to lose, that way you wont be dissappointed when you do.
Oh yea in the cartoon the team needed to make one point to win at the last second (how classic) and when the kid missed (kicked it over) he just shrugged and smiled without missing a beat everyone ran over to the smiling coach to get icecreame like noone cared, they lost, and they didnt care. there is a difference between accepting defeat as an occasional part of life, and expecting to lose and take that as the norm (the show seem to strongly emphasize the latter)
It just bugged me that they think kids should be taught to not care if they lose, and to not be upset (thus not learning lesson) when they fail at something.
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I can't argue with that, Wobble. I have seen what you are describing as well, noncompetitive sports. While it has merits, it just doesn't completely fulfill instincts many of us have. We want a winner and a loser. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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"It doesnt matter whether you win or lose... but always CHEAT!" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I like to win just like everyone else, but I find that losing is much more educational.
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Kieren the voice of reason
Now if I only could get you way from the awful religious thingy, we could go on a crusade. I'd let you be Emperor of All Material Things Except Those Owned By Santa. Think about it.
Regarding winning and losing; not everything in life is a do or die matter. If one is raised to be overly competitive, one will find social interactions somewhat difficult.
Being number one is being the best. Being number two is being damned good. Celebrate an achievement and what is learned from it; sometimes, the goal is less worth than the journey. It's something that must be remembered.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1619_3845234)
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch
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Originally posted by Tac:
I like to win just like everyone else, but I find that losing is much more educational.
It should be. But if instead of thinking that the next time the one who has just beaten you will pay that with blood ( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)), you think "its all right, I lose but I dont mind", then you only are learning HOW to be a loser.
One thing is to be a bad loser, other is to be a good loser. Neither is good, but IMO the good loser will end being a REAL loser, at least the other tries to not to lose again.
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Ram-
From the bottom of my heart, and with sincerest respect, I just don't think I can disagree with you more.
You will lose if you play long enough. You will win if you play long enough. There is nothing wrong with learning to do both well. I repeat, I don't think anyone has to like losing, but you do have to accept its inevitability. Did you play well, to the best of your ability? Did you learn from what went wrong? Can you improve yourself as a result of your loss?
The whole "if you learn to lose well you just learn to lose" line is a bit one-dimensional, don't you think? Then again, maybe we all should yell and scream at those that best us (albeit temporarily) and refuse to give them credit for a well-fought contest- you know, the whole sportsman thing. I hope not. I have many rivals in sports that I respect, even train with, and I think they bring the best out in me whether I beat them or not. I am the first one to shake their hands if they beat me, and the reverse is true as well. We swap versions of the story over a beer. We train hard for the next meeting, calculating the weakness and strengths of one another. We adjust our strategies. The process repeats over and over. What a shame if I couldn't accept that I lost to such a person, and have to go into my room, lock the door, grab a bottle of Jack Daniels and listen to Nirvana. That would be enough to kill anyone. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Kieren:
Ram-
From the bottom of my heart, and with sincerest respect, I just don't think I can disagree with you more.
You will lose if you play long enough. You will win if you play long enough. There is nothing wrong with learning to do both well. I repeat, I don't think anyone has to like losing, but you do have to accept its inevitability. Did you play well, to the best of your ability? Did you learn from what went wrong? Can you improve yourself as a result of your loss?
The whole "if you learn to lose well you just learn to lose" line is a bit one-dimensional, don't you think? Then again, maybe we all should yell and scream at those that best us (albeit temporarily) and refuse to give them credit for a well-fought contest- you know, the whole sportsman thing. I hope not. I have many rivals in sports that I respect, even train with, and I think they bring the best out in me whether I beat them or not. I am the first one to shake their hands if they beat me, and the reverse is true as well. We swap versions of the story over a beer. We train hard for the next meeting, calculating the weakness and strengths of one another. We adjust our strategies. The process repeats over and over. What a shame if I couldn't accept that I lost to such a person, and have to go into my room, lock the door, grab a bottle of Jack Daniels and listen to Nirvana. That would be enough to kill anyone. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Uhmmm..lets see.
I dont say that you must yell at the one who has just won, in fact the whole <S> concept in the main arena is to salute a good fight, good ACM, etc. I have nothing against congratulating the guy who has just won. In fact the opposite.
What I mean is that the whole concept of "being a good loser" is that if you do a nice combat, and still are killed, then you are going to be happy. Well, I will feel great of the fight I have just had, but not about the fact that I have just lost.
For instance, this afternoon, I was flying with stsanta joined in my cockpit. At one moment, I was surrounded with no less than 5 bandits and I kept the flying for a couple of minutes evading countless bounces. But I was killed. 5-1 odds. I was proud I lasted so long. But I was pissed, because I died. Santa said "nice flying" and I asnwered "don't think so, I died".
The whole thing is that I LEARN from losing. But that doesnt mean that I must accept losing as a normal learning way (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). If I had said "yeah, I have done a good job against 5 bandits", then I would be a conformist. I am still thinking in that death and thinking how did I blew it at the moment I was hit, and thinking that I should have jinked to the other side, or kept SA better, or...
If I simply say "I have done it OK" then I am going to learn less, IMO. Conformism is never good. "Good losers" have a lot of conformism (no disrespect here, of course), and I simply dont like that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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RAM the point is that one should show some respect for the people against which one is competing, win or lose, because if one doesn't, those people will not be interested in any further competition, forcing one to come up with a series of fake names to play under which will only last as long as one can restrain oneself from idiotic outbursts in the arena which, as we have seen, is not very long at all.
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Originally posted by Kieren:
Ram-
...You will lose if you play long enough. You will win if you play long enough. There is nothing wrong with learning to do both well. I repeat, I don't think anyone has to like losing, but you do have to accept its inevitability. Did you play well, to the best of your ability? Did you learn from what went wrong? Can you improve yourself as a result of your loss?...
That's the facts. I think the very most important thing a loss teaches is not to over estimate your self or underestimate the other guy. Think. Do your best. Observe. Learn. Analyze what happened. Than go on to the next challenge. You realize you lost the last one but you learned some things you can use in the next one. But you also know you can lose and that makes you think a little more. It also teaches you to respect the ability of others and the advise of others. This will sound terribly corny but here goes. I've thought of all the games I've played solitaire gives a very good analogy to life. You can play it over and over and no matter how good you get at it you lose most of the time. The key to winning is paying very close attention to the cards in play. But even if you don't miss any plays the deck is mostly stacked against you. But if you never play you will never win. The chances for most people becoming a Bill Gates are VERY small. But if you don't get out there and try you certainly never will. Not that money is the only mark of success. It is just an analogy.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Hi
Unfortunetly this kind of programming is rampant in America today, especially aimed at young children. There seems to be an effort to "sissyfy" US kids because the whole ed-school crowd has taken the view that individual initiative and drive to succed/win is best replaced with some sort of collectivistic ethic. The most practical effect of this in schooling has been a move toward "group work" yeaaaa! and less relevant course material. I have personal experience with High School English classes using group POTTERY??? making to teach grammar. Plus intelligent kids are often discouraged from fully using their skills, lest they make the other kids feel "bad". I guess they all want the kids to be dumb, unmotivitaed, loosers - at lest they will be in touch with their emotions. Very very sad, I had the misfortune to be part of the US ed system as this change was taking place.
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I agree lots of folks take AH too seriously, I dont even fly the MA and i can still see some VERY heated rivalry now and then leaking onto the boards. I see both sides at this point from both Ram and Kieren, and both are right, i just feel that lots of the influences on childern (kids shows mainly) have strayed from accepteing losing as part of life turned it into accepting losing as a way of life (hence the post) very interesting thought on both sides here but I wouls say you are BOTH right. I feel competition is good for everyone, it forces people to set goals and try harder, these stuped shows emphasize to kids (IMO) that if you lose dont worry about it, dont think about it, and dont try to do any better, and to just accept themselves as someone who isnt going to win..so to not even try. Thats what bothers me.
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Originally posted by funked:
RAM the point is that one should show some respect for the people against which one is competing, win or lose, because if one doesn't, those people will not be interested in any further competition, forcing one to come up with a series of fake names to play under which will only last as long as one can restrain oneself from idiotic outbursts in the arena which, as we have seen, is not very long at all.
Funked...you have no friggin idea on what you are talking about, so...better shaddap.
BTW I have kept the same account I opened without changing it, so the "series" of identities you talk about, are nonsense. Till the date ,I have jumped in anger in #1 only once and didnt last for more than 10 seconds (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
But of course you think different. Thats good, means I'm doing it well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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For the third time, you are denying something nobody has accused you of...
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It's because everyone of today's kids watches barney or those damned queer teletubbies or that pokeman crap. You're bound right from the start to be a LOSER if you watch that nonsense.
I grew up on GI Joe and war movies. Like Blue Max, or Flying Tigers, or 12Oclock high, etc etc.
Losing is never acceptable unless you ARE losing. I want to WIN, there is no second best there is only THE BEST.
If you come in second that means you are the second best compared to someone else, you want to be second in line to someone else?
I sure don't. No get out of my way I'm comin' through!
<BFG>
-SW
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Originally posted by funked:
For the third time, you are denying something nobody has accused you of...
Really?
forcing one to come up with a series of fake names to play under which will only last as long as one can restrain oneself from idiotic outbursts in the arena which, as we have seen, is not very long at all.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
as you have seen...you haven't seen anything. Wich is good for me, BTW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ram-
If I am reading Herr Funked properly, I believe he is referring to a few high-profile pilots who have come and gone and come and gone and come and gone... I don't think he singled you out. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I know a runner that would never go to state or national level competition- not that he wasn't talented enough, it was that he couldn't bear the thought he might actually lose a contest. For that reason he limited himself to being only a local and regional standout.
Jumping in with people that are far more talented/experienced than yourself can be one of the most educational tools a person can have- that is unless your ego won't allow the certain thumping you will receive. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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You know, back when I pplayed tennis, think I was 13 or 14, I met Magnus Norman. he's now a top seeded tennis player.
I lost, 6-2 6-3.
It was the most fun I had had on a tennis court; played very well and we had long duels. He was just better than me.
Winning ain't everything. Life isn't about winning; Life is about experiencing and learning. It is about what you can get out of an experience. With a few exceptions such as life and death situations.
No matter how much you win or lose, you'll be stuck with yourself. I'd rather be a happy "loser" than a crying "winner". The concepts are rather artificial, I think.
If you can get something good out of a trip, you've won. Period. If you can't, try again.
I feel *everything* we do in life is a potential win - we had nothing before we lived and now, everything we have is sort of a blessing. With a few caveats, naturally.
That doesn't mean I am not competitive and hate to lose - I'm a sore loser. But once my testosterone and ego starts mellow down, I can reflect on my experience.
RAM, you said it wasn't nice flying because you died. If you had, buy pure luck, gotten out alive, would this make your flying great? Even though it was luck, not skill, that got ya out of it?
You can fly well and die. You can fly poorly and live and kill. I'd agre fthat for people that fly to live, losing will always be a sore thing.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1619_3845234)
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 01-29-2001).]
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Santa-
I notice a certain acceptance of imperfection that I find refreshing- perhaps I can persuade you to come over to my "Higher Calling" way of thinking and I could allow you to be in charge of spreading the word? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously, great and illustrative example!
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Kieren you failed to mention that the guy (John) was a low life dick with ears that was so wrapped up in image he couldn't bare to lose at anything so he lied or cheated everyone he met just so he would look good.
I think he was a Democrat too. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I think learning to lose well is very important. I also think learning to win well is just as important.
Good sportsmanship is a virtue that is fading away in todays kids mainly because of parents attitude on winning.
I've coached for quite a few years myself and normally the kids that are bad sports have parents that are bad sports. (Does the David M. and the Scott C. families come to mind Kieren?)
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Win/Lose, Light/Dark, Good/Bad
Any distinction you make always creates its opposite.
Interesting opinions here, but as usual I find my self disagreeing with almost all of them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) I think competitiveness is destructive and is at the core of what is wrong in our society. Taking a young child and teaching him to compete and then deriving his self-image from the result is harmful.
What ever happened to just running for joy?
Okay, I get it, if there are no stopwatches, special gear, Wheaties contracts and others to compare oneself to, it's just not the same thing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I usually try to refrain from posting too many quotes from others but the following one sums up perfectly my feelings on this subject.
"One is everlastingly comparing oneself with another, with what one is, with what one should be, with someone who is more fortunate. This comparison really kills. Comparison is degrading, it perverts one's outlook. And on comparison one is brought up. All our education is based on it and so is our culture. So there is everlasting struggle to be something other than what one is. The understanding of what one is uncovers creativeness, but comparison breeds competitiveness, ruthlessness, ambition, which we think brings about progress. Progress has only led so far to more ruthless wars and misery than the world has ever known. To bring up children without comparison is true education."
- J. Krishnamurti
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Competition is a cruel reality in our world.
How you handle competition makes all the difference. You can compete with others or yourself, but in the end if you decide you want to improve yourself in anything you absolutely must compare (and by virtue compete) with some standard.
BTW, reminds me of college vs. real world viewpoints. In college you learn all the wonderful ideological examples of how to do your job, how great society can be, and how to deal with people effectively and respectfully.
Then you wake up in the real world. You learn very quickly about the nature of people, your workplace, and your job. You realize you need to be far more pragmatic.
Yes, there is competition in virtually anything you wish to mention, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing- unless we make it bad.
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"It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game".
I agree with this old, old saying. I'm a competative person, and I like to win. But it's not worth winning if I piss everyone off that I'm playing with by behaving like a jerk.
I believe in chivalry in an age when chivalry is all but dead. I like to <S> people in AH for a well-fought fight, whether I win or lose.
It all boils down to self confidence. I don't need to win all the time to feel good about myself. I have a strong sense of self worth, so I don't need to beat someone else to feel like a winner. Yes, winning feels good. But just to have the opportunity to play with you folks in the MA is a big win to me in the first place.
One thing I've noticed in some very competative people, is that they are insecure. They need to dominate someone else to feel good about themselves. I pity them, for they just don't get it.
<S>
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I'm not saying that losing isnt a part of learning. I am the first knowing this, when I first came here I thought I would kick countless prettythanges...and found myself being shot out of the sky all the time. Loved it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
I learned, and I am still learning. I do lose a lot of times in a lot of things, and I DO learn from the times that someone wins me at anything.
But I wont be one of the ones who says "Hey, the important thing is to compete, not to win".
IF you go to a competition, if you play a game, if you test your skill against someone's...then the goal is TO WIN. To lose is always a failure. If someone is better than you doesnt mean you CANT win him...means he will likely win you more times. BUT HE STILL CAN BE BEATEN.
I'm the first to admit that I'm not a good sport (but neither I am a bad one). I really get pissed when I die in AH, in any circunstance.
In the example we are talking about...Bassically, Santa, surrounded by 5 cons, I could have gotten out. And not by luck, but by skill. Have done it before, and will do it again (hopefully (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) sometime).
But happens that in that combat, in one given moment I thought that I was clear of bounces and tried to kill the F4U that had just overshoot me.
But I was wrong, and another bad guy was bouncing me. My move put my 190 still in his sights and he shot the hell out of me. I can't feel satisfied after I blew it in that way (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Said that, yes, I was proud I had lasted for so long. Yes when I get my prettythang kicked by someone much better than me, and I have put a good fight, I am proud of it.
But if I die, if I lose, is because I have blewed it somehow, somewhere. I dont let myself fall into complacence and say "hey it's been a great fight". I think about it and find WHERE did I blew it.
To sit down after losing and thinking "I did well, winning is not important", is the best way to forget all the lessons you have just learnt (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
IMO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(BTW StSanta, I hope you play soccer as you play tennis because if you come here, be sure I will have a match to play...and you will be in my team AND I DONT LIKE TO LOSE! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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RAM: I suck at soccer. Haven't played it in years.
But I'm still an avid fan and any chances I get to kick a ball, I take. Gotten good at freekicks and penalties, training with my sister, who's the goalie on a team playing the women's elite division.
I'll kick your arse, and take your sisters as a price. Watch me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1619_3845234)
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch
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The problem with the win or die mentality is that when you don't win, your psyche is so intense that you cannot learn how and why you did not win. The how you play the game means that you play because you like to play <insert sport>. This does not mean less competitiveness, only a larger perspective.
I've been on losing sides, but still enjoyed myself, because even being down the competition and sport does not end. Unless you're never going to play again, you've an opportunity to continue playing against obviously a great opponent, and there is no better way to learn to get better. Usually at this point the all about winning crew rolls over and dies, while those with some pride continue to play knowing with improvement they can eventually beat the opponent.
So basically there are 2 stances...
"I want to compete with anyone, anytime, knowing I will lose some of those, because I want to compete against the best and improve."
vs
"I'm not likely going to win so there's no use in trying."
-
Originally posted by Fatty:
"I want to compete with anyone, anytime, knowing I will lose some of those, because I want to compete against the best and improve."
vs
"I'm not likely going to win so there's no use in trying."
Fatty, that is somehow a good separation. But I think there is a third class:
"I will win always, and if somehow I lose, its not my fault"
(there are lots of this one (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
I am (evidently) on the first of those three classes... and of course I think its the one that should be taken by people and teached to kids...but with an addendum:
"I want to compete with anyone, anytime, knowing I will lose some of those, because I want to compete against the best and improve.I accept the inevitability of losing some times, but I wont fall in the relax of thinking "as he is better, I will lose". I want to compete. I want to win. I want to learn. Losing is a way for learning but it is avoidable and I WANT to avoid it"
With that ,I think my stance is clearly explained (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 01-31-2001).]