Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on March 29, 2006, 05:01:50 PM
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BUSH'S FAULT! (Maybe he read Beet1e's post? )
Wednesday, March 29, 2006
WASHINGTON — The government is telling automakers to start churning out pickup trucks, sport utility vehicles and vans that go farther on a gallon of gas than today's models.
New fuel economy rules, covering 2008 through 2011, are being issued to the auto industry amid growing public concern about U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and rising pump prices.
The new rules represent the most significant changes to the Corporate Average Fuel Economy system in three decades and will affect automakers' product lineup. They follow President Bush's declaration that the U.S. is "addicted to oil." Bush has called for a 75 percent reduction in Mideast oil imports by 2025.
The new rules do not apply to passenger cars, which must meet a 27.5 mile per gallon average.
Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta was announcing the rule changes Wednesday.
Under the CAFE system, automakers now must meet an average of 21.6 mpg for their 2006 model year light trucks. That average will rise to 22.2 mpg for 2007 vehicles.
Changes first proposed last summer would lead to a projected fleetwide average of 24 mpg by 2011, though the final rules could require higher standards.
Automakers probably would need to meet fuel economy targets based on their mix of vehicles.
Environmental groups have pressed for the higher standards and urged that the rules start applying to large trucks and sport utility vehicles such as the Hummer H2 and Chevrolet Suburban.
"The fact that fuel prices have increased and more importantly, fuel price forecasts have increased since the proposal was developed suggests a stronger standard is warranted," said Eric Haxthausen, an economist with Environmental Defense.
Environmentalists want the Bush administration to improve upon last summer's proposal's projected savings of 10 billion gallons of oil over the lifetime of the vehicles sold from 2008-11.
The administration said it would save more fuel than any previous rulemaking in the history of the light truck program, but the groups said it only amounted to a few weeks worth of oil consumption.
"The president is the one who said we're addicted to oil. This is his most important tool to curb that addiction," said Dan Becker, who directs the Sierra Club's global warming and energy program.
The proposal from last summer also would phase out a single standard for light trucks and create different mileage goals for six categories of vehicles. Industry groups said the new plan may call for more specific fuel economy standards based on a vehicle's dimensions.
Automakers have noted that the final plan will likely mean seven straight years of higher fuel economy requirements for light trucks. The industry has fought previous attempts to raise the standards but has expressed support for the proposal's direction.
U.S. automakers such as General Motors Corp. (GM) and Ford Motor Co. (GM) have said the current system hurts them against the competition because sales of large SUVs must be offset by the sale of smaller light trucks to comply with fuel economy rules.
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Was there a point to this?
Less dependence on foreign oil is a bad thing?
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The Cartman factor:
If hippies like it, I'm against it
Generally a good rule to life by & possibly the strongest defining force in modern American politics
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(http://www.shadetreemechanic.com/images/ford_escape_2005_hybrid_diagram1.jpg)
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if that 6 stroke engine gets into production vehicles...
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Was there a point to this?
Less dependence on foreign oil is a bad thing?
You missed the sarcasm, everyone blames evil Bush for everything from diaper rash to flooded buses in N.O. I just thought I'd blame him for goodness too. ;)
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Wednesday, March 29, 2006
WASHINGTON — The government is telling automakers to start churning out pickup trucks, sport utility vehicles and vans that go farther on a gallon of gas than today's models.
Hmmm, centrally planned economy...where have I heard of that before....?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Hmmm, centrally planned economy...where have I heard of that before....?
CAFE standards have been around since 1975 The Act was passed in response to the 1973-74 Arab oil embargo. The near-term goal was to double new car fuel economy by model year 1985.
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I still stand firm and say Screw the Middle East and find another alternative. Hybrids are NOT a fix.
Regarding the Escape, sweet it is great in the city, it sucks on the highway. Toyota still pwns (Ford collaborates with them).
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TO me this is laughable. Trucks/Suvs are just a precentage of oil consumption. Think of everything that is made from anytype of real plastic. all the food products that come in plastic containters and plastic bags. All the consumber electronics that have plastic in them. The MILLIONS of grocery store bags that are made everyday.
EDIT:
No matter what you do Oil is still going to be the engine that fuels our economy. The quickest way to reduce dependency is to produce our own and research new ways to produce energy.
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I have wanted to see a pie chart on oil usage by category/industry...preferably one that wasn't made by Greenpeace:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
CAFE standards have been around since 1975 The Act was passed in response to the 1973-74 Arab oil embargo. The near-term goal was to double new car fuel economy by model year 1985.
So this particular brand of communism has been around for over 30 years? Wow.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
So this particular brand of communism has been around for over 30 years? Wow.
yup, I'm wondering if the govt is going to suppliment the auto industry with there increased costs due to govt regulations.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
TO me this is laughable. Trucks/Suvs are just a precentage of oil consumption. Think of everything that is made from anytype of real plastic. all the food products that come in plastic containters and plastic bags. All the consumber electronics that have plastic in them. The MILLIONS of grocery store bags that are made everyday.
EDIT:
No matter what you do Oil is still going to be the engine that fuels our economy. The quickest way to reduce dependency is to produce our own and research new ways to produce energy.
Paper bags, etc. Think Gun, think. The Middle East CAN be made worthless, we have to care enough to make the switch.
Karaya
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I have yet to see the branch of the Federal government that has the knowledge necessary to mandate useful, reasonable, and intelligent fuel economy standards. This is yet another "feel good" law, meant to show the millions of mindless minions that "we're doing something". The unintended consequences from this stupidity will be monumental to say the least.
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See Rule #5
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
yup, I'm wondering if the govt is going to suppliment the auto industry with there increased costs due to govt regulations.
You know it.
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Plastic accounts for about 4% of world oil production.
I have wanted to see a pie chart on oil usage by category/industry...preferably one that wasn't made by Greenpeace
No pie chart, but these are the figures from BP's oil industry report (it covers the entire industry, not just BP)
World (excl former Soviet Union)
Gasolines 31.5%
Middle distillates 36.0%
Fuel oil 11.8%
Others 20.7%
USA
Gasolines 46.0%
Middle distillates 29.7%
Fuel oil 3.9%
Others 20.4%
Middle distilates are diesel, kerosene etc, others includes "refinery gas, LPGs, solvents, petroleum coke, lubricants, bitumen, wax and refinery fuel and loss."
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Wooooooo a big whopping 24mpg. If you want to truly impact the automobile makers then make it a real goal. Tell them to reduce exhaust emissions to zero and the vehicle must travel 400 miles on 15 gallons of whatever type of fuel or less. Then we are actually going to achieve something. Otherwise we aren't going to have a pot to pee in because we will still be dependent on the large oil producing nations. Hybrid vehicles aren't the answer. The answer is in engines that run on other fuels than oil based products.
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Originally posted by beet1e
See Rule #5
Uhhh, beet, the Cafe standard NHTSA did roll back the standard for model year 1986 cars.... from 27.5 mpg to 26 mpg, :lol Detroit continued to argue for more “relief.” based on the threat of imports replacing domestics. They also claimed "One year of relief is not enough.” (GM, Ford...Chrylers had met the CAFE standard, spending 5 billion to do so, they were outraged that GM and Ford got their roll back wish)
The auto industry got its multiple years of relief when NHTSA rolled back the CAFE standard to 26 mpg for model years 1987, 1988, and 1989. When the subject once again reared its head in 1989, jobs found their way back into the anti-fuel economy mix. U.S. Secretary of Transportation Samuel Skinner announced in May 1989 that the four years of CAFE relief were over and reinstated the original 27.5 mpg target.
Big whoop. 1.5 mpg difference. (rolls eyes here) I'll bet there are a few hundred thousand workers in America thankful for this. I'm sure it pissed the Europeans off to no extent too. ;)
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I can't for the life of me see why my post got clipped, but I don't think it was for the article. So... http://www.frugalmarketing.com/dtb/kennedy.shtml
Big whoop. 1.5 mpg difference. (rolls eyes here) I'll bet there are a few hundred thousand workers in America thankful for this. I'm sure it pissed the Europeans off to no extent too. - Rip
Here's a snip from the article - According to a recent report by Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute, if the United States had continued to conserve oil at the rate it did in the period from 1976 to 1985, it would no longer have needed Persian Gulf oil after 1985. Had we continued this wise course, we might not have had to fight the Persian Gulf war, and we would have insulated ourselves from price shocks in the international oil market. Fuel efficiency is a sound national energy policy, economic policy and foreign policy all wrapped into one. Every increase of one mile per gallon in auto fuel efficiency yields more oil than is in two Arctic National Wildlife Refuges. An improvement right now of 2.7 miles per gallon would eliminate our need for all Persian Gulf oil!
Think about it in percentage terms, Rip. 2.7 miles per gallon is about 10% for a typical US car these days, and equates to millions of barrels of oil each day. 1.4 million barrels is enough to supply the UK for one week!
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and.... it would supply lower slobovia for 5 years!
Nothing wrong with getting better effieciancy... the new C6 vette gets 26 mpg and has about 525 hp. but.... it only has two seats... best it can get passenger milage wise is 52.
A lot of the problem with milage is weight. we have good drivetrains now in the world but safety regulations are mandating more and more weight. Even seemingly little crapboxes are real porkers these days.
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
I can't for the life of me see why my post got clipped, but I don't think it was for the article. So... http://www.frugalmarketing.com/dtb/kennedy.shtml Here's a snip from the article - Think about it in percentage terms, Rip. 2.7 miles per gallon is about 10% for a typical US car these days, and equates to millions of barrels of oil each day. 1.4 million barrels is enough to supply the UK for one week!
Does the UK have any such CAFE program?
Think of what it would be had we NOT had CAFE all together! Be thankful! ;)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Does the UK have any such CAFE program?
Doesn't need one! Fuel is too damned expensive as it is. :mad::lol
The last Tory government introduced a "fuel price escalator" - the cost of road fuel was supposed to rise each year by 5% above the rate of inflation. Then Blair came to power, and chancellor Gordon (our soon to be PM) started initiating tax increases of his own.
Then came the Peasants' Revolt 2000 (.PDF document) (http://www.la-articles.org.uk/LA-6.pdf). Read this document if you want the facts; skip over it if you just want to troll.
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it's easy to reduce the use of gas, just issue ration books like in WW2.
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According to a recent report by Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute, if the United States had continued to conserve oil at the rate it did in the period from 1976 to 1985, it would no longer have needed Persian Gulf oil after 1985.
Either this is a misquote, or we did not import PG oil in 1985.
By definition, we did conserve oil at the rate we did from 1976 to 1985, so therefore in 1985 we would have achieved what we did in 1985.
The last time domestic production was enough for just the transportation sector usage was the early seventies. We haven't produced the equivalent of the amount we use since the late 50s.
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Originally posted by Reschke
Wooooooo a big whopping 24mpg. If you want to truly impact the automobile makers then make it a real goal. Tell them to reduce exhaust emissions to zero and the vehicle must travel 400 miles on 15 gallons of whatever type of fuel or less. Then we are actually going to achieve something. Otherwise we aren't going to have a pot to pee in because we will still be dependent on the large oil producing nations. Hybrid vehicles aren't the answer. The answer is in engines that run on other fuels than oil based products.
That will never happen, does anybody even consider the auto makers might be in cohoots with the oil companys? (possibility maybe)