Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Simaril on March 30, 2006, 11:22:56 AM
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It's pretty clear that the battle lines have been drawn, the opposing rationales have been reviewed, the horse has been beaten into a bloody pulp and sent for conversion into proverbial glue. The "furballers" and the "toolshedders" know where each group stands, and they know what they other "side" thinks. Nothing more to see, nothing more to accomplish.
Except deepening rifts and increased animosity.
Additional threads, whines, or rants will not change things -- and may hurt them. So stop already. Lets each allow everyone else to enjoy the game their way, without trashing each other or placing excreta in each others' breakfast cereals.
Check out the map rotation listed in another thread. Notice that one of the very few maps that only appears once is the Donut. This is not an accident, but a deliberate decision by HT -- and here's why he made it:
originally posted by Hitech
...if the donut map were to leave, it is because it creates sutch a rift between the different type of players.
Quote came from here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1866518&highlight=donut#post1866518)
Well, we've proved his concern correct once again. Another appearance in the rotation, another spate of acrimonious threads, attacks, and counterattacks. Even though I personally think the donut balances the interests of all players better than any other map, I dont blame him.
So lets stop yammering and yapping. Cut each other slack, let each go his own way, and find a modus operandi that works. A few thoughts....
Furballers. The bombers have been here, they will continue to be here, and they will continue to drop bombs. They will sometimes kill FHs and they will interfere with the fights you like, because the capture people look at a sector and see the bases instead of the equal DAR bars. Tats how its gunna be, so dont whine. If you want to, do a cap and buff hunt just liek you sometimes like goon hunting.
Buffers. The fighter guys are not likely to care about capturing that base you've been working on for half a day, so yelling louder isnt going to get their attenion. Just go about your business, and if you need fighters -- up them yourselves, or make a fighter sweep mission to interest the guys who are less die hard furballers. As a matter of courtesy to other addicts, try to amke your attacks have some real goal, whether it be to capture or to create a tactical diversion. Dont drop hangars if you dont intend to do anything afterward, and if more needs to be done try to take the trouble to organize it too. (After all, for those who profess to like strategy, it would be idiotic to create an advantage without planning and providing for its exploitation.)
And for all of us: rather than rant, lets be proactive. If we see soemone behaving in an anti-community manner, report it here -- and let the community work.
Take the FT brouhaha as an easy example. In a positive way, the cooperative rooks+knight capture of fighter town bases last rotation was amazing for its unity and commUNITY spirit. On the side of ...ummmm... social sanctions, i would think that posting the folks who actually ran the dysfunctional captures of the FT bases in the first palce would allow the community to exert...negative pressure....that might prevent recurrance. (Need help from the 0600-1200 GMT crew for this, since thats when the stuff seems to happen.)
We've heard it said that insanity is continuing to try the same thing while expecting a different outcome. So, blabbing on the BBS about furballing vs toolshedding, or fighters vs missions, would clearly be insane -- since it never has and never will change anyones mind.
Instead, lets step out of the nuthouse, and take actions that can actually change the environment.
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If the community at large wants to have an unwritten accord that FT and TT bases are not to be captured (unless doing so would reset the map and allow odds to stabilize) then I'd have no problem supporting that. I think that if enough veteran folks got on the team channel and told the people about to take a FT base not to do it, they'd turn around. One or two people saying it won't make a difference.
But don't expect me to so quickly forgive those who made deliberate personal attacks on my during the "discussion." Or ever forgive them, for that matter. Vengeance has no half-life.
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Just keep saying Voltaire's prayer.....to be honest, it 's likely already answered, DoK. ;)
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Just add 50 k mountains around fighter town,
wipass
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Originally posted by wipass
Just add 50 k mountains around fighter town,
wipass
there are already 20k mountains, and anyone bombing/capturing FT bases is doing so FROM an FT base...
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so disable ords at FT :)
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you know, like Dokgonzo said, vengence can last a long time...
i know of people who attack and capture fightertown bases just to intentionally piss off the furballers.
it works both ways too. furballers upping to stop a chain of bases being taken, spying, whatever.
it all is a vicisous circle.
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All this is well and good, but it is not the Furballers Vs Buffs. It's furballers Vs Griefers!
As for Donut going away - The day that happens is the day I cancel my account and forget about AH. Fot HTC to cancel donut would only mean to me that this is no longer a fighter pilot game. Or at least it would show me that he cared little about the state of the fighter pilot game. And were that the case this would not be the game for me.
As it is now, I am hoping that CT will be the end all and be all for all the tool shedders in this game. If that is the case I won't give a rats arse if the MA never gets reset, nary a field won or lost or I never see a bomber again.
With that said, I can't wait for CT to get released.:aok
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Originally posted by wetrat
there are already 20k mountains, and anyone bombing/capturing FT bases is doing so FROM an FT base...
Yup ... there's no need in FT for bombers or troops or ord or any way from GV's to get from one base to the next.
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Perhaps folks are taking "Fighter Town", and "Tank Town" a bit too seriously. I dont recall seeing anywhere that they were ever given that name "officially", or that it was ever intended to be a mini-ma, or mini-da. If they were, HTC would have already disabled base capture there ect. and you would have a TT and FT on every map, which you don't.
Its just another map, the designer put certain bases in there for a fun setup, but it was never intended as many seem to want it to be.
My 2 cents, I dont really care about it (bomb it dont bomb it, whatever), just an observation.
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Getting rid of donut is a bad idea, it is just a symptom of the disease... the lack of strat targets for the 'arm chair generals' who instead hit fields with overwealming numbers instead.
This problem has been going on for sometime, only now we have squads of 15+ guys griefing. Yes, I said griefing... you don't see furballers affecting the toolshed warriors in ANY way.
I think the only way furballers could 'grief' in return is to kill all ord on the map, everywhere. Frankly, I'd have more fun watching grass grow and to kill something that is available offline.
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Originally posted by wipass
Just add 50 k mountains around fighter town,
wipass
someone seems to be forgetting the original tank town on trinity.
he11 fighter town / tank town didn't even exist before that map.
even on trinity people would up lancs and fly 2 hours just to get over those mountians just to show they could do it, and be "cool" or "stupid" depending on your point of view
then the tankers complained about the bombers. then people started taking fighters to tank town to kill the bombers, easy kills. then the bombers started taking jabo fighters to fight the fighters. then the next map (ozkansas IIRC) had that area with tank AND fighter bases in the middle, but there only early war planes were enabled.
that didn't work because eventually with the arenas resetting it caused problems.
there is no magical answer to "protect" tank or fighter or bomber or dolt or whatever town. it is a community thing.
the real travesty is i bet 80% of the MA playerbase doesn't even read or post or knwo about the bulletin board. in that respect any real headway in "communication" will never happen.
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Well squire, if you logged in and couldn't play your style of game play how would you feel?
If then there were maps that allowed you to play your style of game play everytime you logged in, how would you feel?
If maroons ruined it so even tho the maps that allowed for your style of game play is taken away, how would you feel?
Next time try to look at things from all points of view and you won't sound like a clueless, selfish noob thats only happy cause he can play his way. Just my $.02
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For what its worth, I really don't have much interest in capturing
bases in FT. I'd much rather run a horde to sweep down on them
and have some fun. Likewise, killing all the FH's at an FT base
would kind of make that impossible, no? So the same goes for
toolshedding FT. I ain't a fan of it...unless we need to capture one.
As far as capturing FT bases, I wouldn't consider it unless it was
necessary to affect a map victory - like a couple of nights ago
when we only needed one more base to win and the one we had
been working was too heavily defended. One of the most basic
paradigms in warfare is to hit the enemy where he is weakest.
In the case I cited the FT base met that criteria so we went after it.
Can anyone honestly argue that in that situation ANY base isn't fair
game to achieve victory?
Moreover, I enjoy upping in FT for a quick fight and to farm some
perkies myself. Making kills is easiest in FT so when you want to
pad your perk points thats the place to go. So, taking FT bases
deprives me of that chance as well as the dedicated furballers.
Thats my take on FT....for what its worth.
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Originally posted by Squire
Perhaps folks are taking "Fighter Town", and "Tank Town" a bit too seriously. I dont recall seeing anywhere that they were ever given that name "officially", or that it was ever intended to be a mini-ma, or mini-da. If they were, HTC would have already disabled base capture there ect. and you would have a TT and FT on every map, which you don't.
Its just another map, the designer put certain bases in there for a fun setup, but it was never intended as many seem to want it to be.
My 2 cents, I dont really care about it (bomb it dont bomb it, whatever), just an observation.
Your assumptions/conclusions are wrong. It didn't have to be spelled out, altho I do remember reading something from NB when he designed TT and whoever designed FT that the intent was to provide an area that could be used for the specific design purpose.
Neither authors just willy-nilly added those areas ... they were designed with an intent and purpose.
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Originally posted by wipass
Just add 50 k mountains around fighter town,
wipass
So... :huh You want a DA in the MA without going through the effort of going to the DA, so you can nurse your "Name in Lights Syndrome" in the MA. ooooo.....kay?!
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I really don’t see the problem in just disabling troops and ord at the FT bases. FT base ack lethality should also be at least tripled. If game settings allow for the individual adjustment of each base, I don’t see how that could be so hard to do. It would not affect the overall war at all. People would still have HUNDREDS of bases to go after outside of FT. It would be the same for everyone, so it would also be fair. It sounds like a win-win situation. I know its been proposed before. I dont understand why people oppose this idea. :huh
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The problem with eliminating the donut map because furballers and FT griefers can't get along ignores the fact that this is exactly what FT griefers want. Thus threatening to remove the map because it causes anger between "factions" only encourages the griefers to try even harder because doing so may reward them with permanent removal of the map from the rotation.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by thndregg
So... :huh You want a DA in the MA without going through the effort of going to the DA, so you can nurse your "Name in Lights Syndrome" in the MA. ooooo.....kay?!
That’s no argument at all. What is the big freaking deal about giving 3 bases to people who want to fight in close quarters. The reason the DA doesn’t work for this is because its setup as a dueling arena...hence the name. You can fly whatever plane you want...there are no perked rides. It would be totally unbalanced if everyone went in there for furball action.
Again..WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL?! Why cant this be done. FT is OBVIOUSLY very popular. It would be even more popular if we could get rid of the base capturing and the vulching.
I’m all for the base war, and bombers and all that good *****. I enjoy taking part in that sometimes. Were talking 3 bases out of what...300?? Give me a freaking break. Oh and most people who fly in FT on the deck in furbals don’t make it back to land, so the "Name in lights" thing doesn’t really apply. Besides, most fighter guys dont long for approval from some milkrunner at 30k.
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Originally posted by BigR
Again..WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL?! Why cant this be done. FT is OBVIOUSLY very popular. It would be even more popular if we could get rid of the base capturing and the vulching.
Ask HT. :aok
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We need more LOL in the MA, TT and FT.
And less BS on the BBS so that HTC can
get back to TOD so we can all have
more fun in AH.
Now don't make me come and kill all
your FH, BH and VH's.
BTW, good time in the SEA last night.
No GV's but lotsa HO action in there! :D
(http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/images/signature_01.gif) (http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/)
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Originally posted by BigR
If game settings allow for the individual adjustment of each base, I don’t see how that could be so hard to do.
Game settings don't allow for this, so far as I know. About the only thing you can adjust on a base-by-base basis (sorry) is the vehicles/planes/boats that are enabled there, and which side controls the base. The object settings, ack settings and so on are global.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Game settings don't allow for this, so far as I know. About the only thing you can adjust on a base-by-base basis (sorry) is the vehicles/planes/boats that are enabled there, and which side controls the base. The object settings, ack settings and so on are global.
- oldman
All bombers and GV could be made unavailabe at the FT fields. This would go a long way to quelling the discord.
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Originally posted by 96Delta
We need more LOL in the MA, TT and FT.
And less BS on the BBS so that HTC can
get back to TOD so we can all have
more fun in AH.
Now don't make me come and kill all
your FH, BH and VH's.
BTW, good time in the SEA last night.
No GV's but lotsa HO action in there! :D
(http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/images/signature_01.gif) (http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/)
You want to take the first steps towards more LOL ? ... keep your LCA out of FT and TT (unless you want to furball or do GVs vs GVs) and discourage any and all others to do the same.
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BLAH BUH BLAH BUH BLAH WAAAA WAAAAA!!!
furballers if you dont want ft bases captured kill the troops duh! my god just a little rudder after you vultch that fast moving con trying to up will do it
tool shedders quit whining cause you aint gonnna get a furballer in to your mission anyways
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Originally posted by SlapShot
All bombers and GV could be made unavailabe at the FT fields. This would go a long way to quelling the discord.
Here he goes making sense again :rolleyes: Sooo, why hasn't this been done yet you may ask?
The way I see it, HT likes this little war between furballers and griffers or toolshed wariers or what ever you want to call them. It makes people want to log in and fight each other. People log in, they keep paing. They keep paing, HT buys more scotch. HT drinks scotch he is happy. Happy is good.
In case you were wondering why some things that are very easy to fix, are just being ignored. :D
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Originally posted by SlapShot
All bombers and GV could be made unavailabe at the FT fields. This would go a long way to quelling the discord.
You probably still want M16's for vultch defense. They're easy enough to kill with cannon that driving them to an enemy base makes no sense, but you need something for when the odds get weird.
And you probably want to just disable ord at FT fields - US fighters carry enough 1000 pounders to take down FH, afterall.
But can we leave the IL2? Something has to be there which can go HO-to-HO with the Hurri2.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Something has to be there which can go HO-to-HO with the Hurri2.
Errrr, another Hurri2 couldn't?
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
You probably still want M16's for vultch defense. They're easy enough to kill with cannon that driving them to an enemy base makes no sense, but you need something for when the odds get weird.
And you probably want to just disable ord at FT fields - US fighters carry enough 1000 pounders to take down FH, afterall.
But can we leave the IL2? Something has to be there which can go HO-to-HO with the Hurri2.
True ... N1K can go head to head with the Hurri.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
You want to take the first steps towards more LOL ? ... keep your LCA out of FT and TT (unless you want to furball or do GVs vs GVs) and discourage any and all others to do the same.
Okay, let me see if I have this straight...
You want me to keep the LCA from the TT and FT
unless we're in GV's so you can HO in the MA
without going to the DA?
(http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/images/signature_01.gif) (http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/)
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Originally posted by 96Delta
Okay, let me see if I have this straight...
You want me to keep the LCA from the TT and FT
unless we're in GV's so you can HO in the MA
without going to the DA?
(http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/images/signature_01.gif) (http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/)
Thats what I thought ... you cry for all to have more "LOL", yet under the covers ... it's not what you really want, and on top of it, you have to be a wise bellybutton about it by implying that we want to HO in the MA without going to the DA.
Your a tool ... have a good day.
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i dont care KILL IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Slapshot...
I'm going to lay this out for you because your angst over this issue
has your perception off kilter...
My post was a lighthearted attempt to play around with all
the ABBREVIATIONS in use on this board. LOL, FT, TT, FH, BH,
SEA, DA, HO, HTC, TOD, LCA, BS, BBS... :)
You get it?
Another joke that missed the mark I guess...its true,
too much emotion clouds the intellect.
You are getting so caught up in a big hullabaloo over nothing here.
If you read my post above more carefully....you
would see that we are essentially in agreement.
You need a time out Slapshot ! ;)
Now go stand in the corner...
(http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/images/signature_01.gif) (http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/)
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PEOPLE!!!
Don't miss the point! Maybe it was buried too deep in that wall of text, but the essential theme of the thread is finding the middle ground, not thrashing all this crap down deeper into the soil!
We dont need to polarize these discussions, because we play the game pretty much fine together. Ranting about how one side needs to do this or the other side needs to stop that is both divisive and ineffectual.
Get off the rants and into the air. Just set the throttle, kick the rudder, and take off. And when we're playing, lets try to think like one of the great souls of US history:
....With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in....
.....by fighting the honorable virtual enemy.
If he could put aside 4 years of slaughter, and call for the binding of wounds and caring for widows on both sides -- couldnt we clam down enough to fly together as fighters and buffers?
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not to hijack the tread or anything, but 96Delta, you may want to edit your signature, before Skuzzy does.
11- Do not use overly large signatures. Signatures should not take up more than 5 normal sized text lines in height. Do not use images in your signature.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
not to hijack the tread or anything, but 96Delta, you may want to edit your signature, before Skuzzy does.
11- Do not use overly large signatures. Signatures should not take up more than 5 normal sized text lines in height. Do not use images in your signature.
I don't think it's in his sig....it's just at the bottom of his post.
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It would be EASY for everyone to co-exist if we could get some sort of protection in FT. I didnt know the settings couldnt be changed, but getting rid of buffs, c47s and troop carrying GVs would be enough I think.
Doing this would make NO difference in the rest of the arena and I really dont see a reason for anyone to oppose this idea. Let us have our fun, and you can have yours. Its ONE MAP that doesnt even get rotated that much.
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Waiting for the FT map to come round is like a being a 6 year old kid waiting for Christmas to arrive.
The rest of the maps don't inspire the desire.
They could, maybe, if CV's were hardened significantly so you could get some decent fur out in mid-ocean away from the other stuff. They sink far too easily though.
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Originally posted by dedalos
they keep paing. They keep paing,
You're really a shades account for HT aren't you.... the spelling gives it away :cool: :D ;)
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If I were a newb reading some of the posts on these boards lately before trying this game, I think I would be turned off to trying it. The negative is far outweighing the positive (whether perception or reality).
Not being a newb, I already know my in-game community experience is nothing like what I read on these boards.
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Originally posted by BigR
It would be EASY for everyone to co-exist if we could get some sort of protection in FT. I didnt know the settings couldnt be changed, but getting rid of buffs, c47s and troop carrying GVs would be enough I think.
Doing this would make NO difference in the rest of the arena and I really dont see a reason for anyone to oppose this idea. Let us have our fun, and you can have yours. Its ONE MAP that doesnt even get rotated that much.
BigR,
The bases in FT and TT have to be exactly the same as the ones elsewhere for programming reasons.
If there's going to be protection, we have to do it by policing ourselves, and by reporting those who ruin it for all -- to the community, not to HT
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<----------- Likes Donut (Map). Krispy Kremes aren't bad tho.
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Originally posted by Alky
You're really a shades account for HT aren't you.... the spelling gives it away :cool: :D ;)
Can't be ... he spelled "they" right. :D
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Originally posted by Simaril
BigR,
The bases in FT and TT have to be exactly the same as the ones elsewhere for programming reasons.
If there's going to be protection, we have to do it by policing ourselves, and by reporting those who ruin it for all -- to the community, not to HT
That's untrue, they can selectively disable any plane or vehicle from individual fields. Disabling c47s jeeps and m3s at FT would do the trick...
Zazen
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True, hadnt thought of that (duh). I was thinkning of trying to not have a troop bunker, etc.
In reality, tho, I seriously doubt HTC would cater that much to the FT/TT masses. If there's going to be policing, we're going to have to do it as a community.
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it works both ways too. furballers upping to stop a chain of bases being taken...
I thought this was called defense... now I know it's done just to piss off the base capture guys!:D
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Originally posted by Squire
Perhaps folks are taking "Fighter Town", and "Tank Town" a bit too seriously. I dont recall seeing anywhere that they were ever given that name "officially", or that it was ever intended to be a mini-ma, or mini-da. If they were, HTC would have already disabled base capture there ect. and you would have a TT and FT on every map, which you don't.
Its just another map, the designer put certain bases in there for a fun setup, but it was never intended as many seem to want it to be.
My 2 cents, I dont really care about it (bomb it dont bomb it, whatever), just an observation.
While FT wasnt "officially" designated that by HTC
FT on the Doughnut map was put there EXACTLY and specificlly by the designer of that map for the purpose of having a mini Da. or to be more specific a place within the MA for the furballers to have their fun without being forced to be a part of the landgrab
I dont spend much time if any at FT on that map And any other map I would side with the landgrabbers.
On Doughnut map I am firmly on the side of the furballers.
Even though I dont spend any time there
We have how many maps?
there is one map alone the furballers can look forward to that has an area specifically designed for them.
I say everyone else has all the other maps to landgrab away on any base bar none.
Let the furballers have this one area on this one map to themselves.
I implore HTC to at some point make these 3 bases uncapturable.
s this would be the easiest, fastest, and most satisfactory way to bring about a resolution to this rift for everyone without removing the map which would only make everyone unhappy.
This is the one time when IMO HTC really can please everyone
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Originally posted by Alky
You're really a shades account for HT aren't you.... the spelling gives it away :cool: :D ;)
That is why he likes me. We are the only two people on earth that mispell the same words the same way :D
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A simple solution to solve everyone's problems:
Increase the hardness of ALL the facilities at all fields by a factor of 4 or more. Make the acks killable only by bombs instead of bullets and cannon shells.
Yes, this may be 'unrealistic' but we already have 'unrealistic' pinpoint bombing ability and would help the gameplay for everyone.
The offense would have more of a challenge, requiring more sorties to destroy a base, having more targets to hit ( or targets to hit more).
The outnumbered defence would have a chance to up at a base and actually defend without a time or distance penalty.
The fights would move from the bases to the cities (minimizing vulching capabilities).
The furballers would have better protected bases or more time to defend them.
The current strat system would have more of an effect because it would be easier to target than bases.
The porkers would require multiple sorties....no more single 51s or typhies sneaking in and killing troops or ordinance for a base.
And best of all, these changes require minimal effort from HTC. At least we should try it
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I say live and let live.
If you want to bomb bases, there are a million other bases to bomb, why the 2 in FT?
If u wanna kill gvs, kill em at a field thats being taken, they are always there so why bother with em in TT?
Unfortunately Human Nature produces people that just want to ruin the fun for others becuase they cant have "fun" unless they do.
just my 0.02$
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So many Adults in this game , yet this is an issue.
Sounds like kids.
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Originally posted by Hammy
I say live and let live.
If you want to bomb bases, there are a million other bases to bomb, why the 2 in FT?
If u wanna kill gvs, kill em at a field thats being taken, they are always there so why bother with em in TT?
Unfortunately Human Nature produces people that just want to ruin the fun for others becuase they cant have "fun" unless they do.
just my 0.02$
Holy crap I agree with Hammy!
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ya, as i think i just wrote in another thread, this issue is deeper than furballers vs. strategeries.
it does come down to the community, and the way i see it, quite a few in the community have given a big finger to the furballers for wanting 3 collective bases on one stupid map. such a small request made by people interested more in combat than toolsheds, met with such hostility.
and dok, i've read through most of these threads....though i think we are on different sides of the coin, i have enjoyed reading your responses. you seem to be one of the few strat guys who actually wanted to discuss rather than sling mud
but hey, at least our feelings are in the air. i think both sides have ok points, no one is right; but i think there is a proper way to fly which shows respect to the community. just because you can do something, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
guess it is time to let that poor poor horse die now. vast.
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When I log on tonight, there's going to be payback for everyone who ever thought of offending me.
I love this game.
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I have never been so offended by anything in all my life.
From now on I only have one thing to do when I fly and thats kill troops and ord there will never be another base taken in aces high if I have anything to say about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:furious :mad: :furious :mad: :mad: :furious
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Originally posted by RedTop
So many Adults in this game , yet this is an issue.
Sounds like kids.
DO NOT!:mad: :p
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" I really don't have much interest in capturing
bases in FT. I'd much rather run a horde to sweep down on them
and have some fun. "
Wow the reality of the way this game is going is all summed up in one statement :( horde in ftr town
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Holy crap I agree with Hammy!
lol, so theres hope for me yet? :aok
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Originally posted by Hammy
lol, so theres hope for me yet? :aok
Anything's possible ! :lol
Zazen
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I like doughnut;)
(http://www.issprops.com/home/images/doughnuts.jpg)
(http://www.mooreschapel.org/fun/cartoons_2/images/doughnuts.jpg)