Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Seagoon on March 30, 2006, 01:53:17 PM
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Last night I was camping the VH of a field by the shore with my PT using the 40mm to kill GVs as they spawned. Came to some alarming conclusions:
1) The 40mm on the PT spews shots in a random pattern. Though I was within d400 of the target, few of the shots hit at or near the aimpoint. Was the actual Bofors on the PT the equivalent of a 40mm musket? No strike that, I've fired a replica Brown Bess, and it was more accurate and consistent.
Compared the PT 40mm against the 40mm on the Hurri 2D, the Hurris 40mms are considerably more accurate using the ".target" function
Was the real 40mm such a spud gun?
2) Also, the PT 40mm kills Panzers hit from behind fairly easily (when you can hit them that is ;-) ) but cannot kill Tigers from any angle. Is that correct or just my experience?
Thanks for the help,
SEAGOON
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well, it shouldnt even kill the panzer since it only fires HE rounds. also, i think that the bofers was quite inacurate compared to most other medium AA guns. but dont hold me to that.
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The Bofors in itself is supposed to be a very accurate gun.
But fired from a small PT craft afloat, I guess thats more than difficult to pinpoint shoot. The sea itself induces lots of movement into the boat in four axis (I would guess that's been taken into account here) plus the 40mm has a pretty good recoil, again adversely affecting the platform, boat.
My 2c
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Not the same gun between the Bofors and HurriD.
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Also note that then IID's have extremely long barrels.
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Originally posted by Keiler
The sea itself induces lots of movement into the boat in four axis
Ahhh, yes, the fourth dimention. I've heard lots about it :D
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Originally posted by dedalos
Ahhh, yes, the fourth dimention. I've heard lots about it :D
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
Posting from mine right now. Rock on substitutes. :D Have to watch your back with the regular teacher. :noid
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Hey...Cav here from the 7th dimension....In reply to your question seagoon- I have never killed a tiger with a 40mm cannon hit...I dont think its possible...I have hit tigers multiple times from a near verticle dive, and these proven panzer killing shots are ineffective against tony
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Hi Cav,
>Hey...Cav here from the 7th dimension....In reply to your question seagoon- I have never killed a tiger with a 40mm cannon hit...I dont think its possible...
Easy. You have to hit him beneath the turret at a right angle to reality.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Originally posted by SMIDSY
also, i think that the bofers was quite inacurate compared to most other medium AA guns. but dont hold me to that.
Isn't 40mm Bofors cannon what we are using on AC-130 gunships? Wouldn't think them that inaccurate.
Compared the PT 40mm against the 40mm on the Hurri 2D, the Hurris 40mms are considerably more accurate using the ".target" function
Aircraft guns shoot accurate. The cannons that shoot at aircraft do not. Try the .target with the Osti and manned ack. Fire zoomed in at 1K and you will see they spread all over low left.
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Lol.. not only is the PT boat unstable on the X,Y, and Z axes, time slips as well?
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Isn't 40mm Bofors cannon what we are using on AC-130 gunships? Wouldn't think them that inaccurate.
The gun's on the AC-130 are also computer controlled and are brought on target by GPS and lasers IIRC.
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Originally posted by Keiler
The sea itself induces lots of movement into the boat in four axis
Disregarding the post above who didn't know there is a 4th dimension... I'd still like Keiler to 'splain to me just exactly how the sea induces movement in a boat on that dimension of Space/Time.
I mean, while it is well understood that speed does have a slight effect on the perception of time from the point of view of the accelerated object, I really don't think the gentle rolling (or event an angry stormy sea) is going to shift your reality.
Enlighten me. :huh
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Originally posted by Kurt
Disregarding the post above who didn't know there is a 4th dimension... I'd still like Keiler to 'splain to me just exactly how the sea induces movement in a boat on that dimension of Space/Time.
I mean, while it is well understood that speed does have a slight effect on the perception of time from the point of view of the accelerated object, I really don't think the gentle rolling (or event an angry stormy sea) is going to shift your reality.
Enlighten me. :huh
I think he may of been thinking something different than what he typed. A boat DOES move in four directions. Pitch, roll, yaw, and elevation from a combination of wave action, maneuvering, and possibly recoil effects (I dont know how this is modeled in AH2, dont drive boats enough). Maybe thats what was intended?
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Seagoon i have also shoot some times with the 40mm bofors real life
and indeed are more accurate than Ah, BUT,
here you are on a *Sea* boat, means that even in a No Waves
sea contition, after the first bullet, the little motion of the boat
from the power of the shoot is enough to loose your exact aim
let the vibrations of the weapon.
Very accurate in the First One bullet shoot. After....
( at 2km shoot i was (we, 2 of us) 30cm near center (old wwii metal sight).
Not bad at all.
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Originally posted by Tails
Pitch, roll, yaw, and elevation
You know, if I had taken two seconds from typing my smart-arsy post, I would have counted those up.
Actually you could add two more to that list because the craft might be drifting left or right (thats one) or forward or back..
You really end up with motion along X,Y,Z, plus the following which can occur without moving out of position; pitch, roll, and yaw.
And then you have the whole Space/Time thing, and thats where it gets ugly.
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Originally posted by nirvana
The gun's on the AC-130 are also computer controlled and are brought on target by GPS and lasers IIRC.
Thats targeting. If the gun doesn't shoot for crap having excellent sights doesn't help.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Lol.. not only is the PT boat unstable on the X,Y, and Z axes, time slips as well?
This one time I fired the spud gun, and I found myself at last week thursday
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Lol...
"boom ... boom.... boom" WTF!! RL LAG!!!
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Spud guns are fun:)
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Originally posted by Kurt
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You really end up with motion along X,Y,Z, plus the following which can occur without moving out of position; pitch, roll, and yaw.
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6 degrees of freedom... but still only 3 dimensions ;)
Calan
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If you shoot the 40mm directly perpendicular to the boats beam you'll get much better 'grouping'. Same for the osty.
If your PT's engines are dead you can see the effect rather easily by turning the boat shooting the gun at 3 or 9 o'clock.
The effect is reduced if you are underway full throttle. I've found that hitting another PT is easier if you make your course parallel with his and shoot from as close to the 3 or 6 position as possible. Hitting from 2-2.5k is not that difficult using this method.
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Doubt the sea effects it in game as wave effects etc. aren't modelled.
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Originally posted by Tails
I think he may of been thinking something different than what he typed. A boat DOES move in four directions. Pitch, roll, yaw, and elevation from a combination of wave action, maneuvering, and possibly recoil effects (I dont know how this is modeled in AH2, dont drive boats enough). Maybe thats what was intended?
Yeah I should have written "degrees of freedom" (dont ask me why I didnt in the first place, I dont know), of course there are only three axis', but 6 DOF ;).
With the 4 DOF I described I picked the "clean" ones and neglected translatoric movement on the sea-plane.
Matt
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I got training for the 40itk/38 which is the standard Bofors 40mm AA canon as designated in Finnish army. We had no problems to hit 2x2m targets at ranges around 1000m or more. Usually it took couple shots to "find" the target (some error in sights because the sights and the mechanical calculator were for aerial targets) but once it was found, it was possible to hit continously. Not bad for a 40 year old canon.
gripen