Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on January 30, 2001, 08:25:00 AM
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What's the big deal if the federal gov funds charitable operations through private organizations versus a government run one if the private org does it more efficiently and less expensively? Why does everyone's underwear get into a knot when the private organization's name has "Catholic" "Baptist" (place your "faith based" name here) in it's title somewhere? Why should the government be allowed to discriminate from such orgs just because they have religious ties. Historically religious based organizations, ie Salvation Army, have a proven track record in helping the down trodden. Why not use the money where it would do the most good? People have to get rid of this religious paranoia.
Eagler
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Specify the criteria please:
- the most helped ?
- those who after recieving help were out of poverty for the longest time ?
- how do you compare soup kitchen to drug addict help group ? How do you compare effectiveness ?
...and brace yourself if one day government decided that Catholic kitchen is better then let's say Islamic kitchen and cuts the funding for the second..
There is no way to compare, grade, judge without prejudice and enforce any standards in this system. That's the main reason why it shouldn't exist.
But... my Church of Satan is standing by for federal cash (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Of course Libs fear faith-based organizations getting government hand outs!!! These groups really want to cure the problem and really help those who need it.
Secular groups have no reason to help or cure as their funding would be cut off!! There would be no need for them!!
Now you know why we have greater numbers of people in poverty today then we had before the "Great Society" programs of Johnson!!
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The only people who squeak about allowing taxes to be funneled to those in need through churches are socialist liberal athiests.
Sorry socialist liberal fellas. You would rather have government agencies waste 90% of your athiest government tithings giving 10% to help relatives in need rather than have a church give 90% of your taxed money and wasting 10%.
Typical rotton commies!
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 01-30-2001).]
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Yeager, I wish you come here in Italy and have a look at some "faith based" institution, provided with plenty of funds by the state....
Never heard about mindwashing??
Come here, I will show you, not joking.
Be careful with religion, is a really dangerous think.
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Originally posted by Naso:
Be careful with religion, is a really dangerous (thing).
In the wrong hands, a gun can be a dangerous thing...so what's your point? Because one religious organization misuses Religion that means everyone does?
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Lemme guess Naso...your government IS the Pope?
Here we have every damned religeon you could imagine and then a whole bunch more that you couldnt.
This is a simple idea. Many churches, Mosques and Synagogues of all denominations provide social services to the needy and downtrodden. These faith based social services do a mighty fine job as it turns out. Far better than Federal Government programs. Allowing these private groups the opportunity to compete for funding with lazy federalist slags makes damned good sense in my opinion.
Try it. If it doesnt work, stop.
Ive heard the arguments about church and state and its all just so much athiest mumbling fumbling crap. In Italy there is a single large predominant religeon. No comparrison to the the many and varied religeons in these United States.
Yeager
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 01-30-2001).]
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What's the big deal with removng guns if it makes the streets safer, statistically?
Let's see. Constitution. Ah, knew it was there somewhere.
Major infringements here, but no one seems to care. Hypocricy.
And, atheists do not have relatives that implies some form of love. We have "individuals living close by with near identical DNA". We're not capable of love, and we're egoistic, without morals and out for world domination.
The Evil Atheist Conspiracy is here. Be afraid, be very afraid (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
"WAAAAAR! KILL the infidels..uhm, that's us. KILL THE FIDELS then!"
"But isn't he an atheist?"
"Dammo. Plan two. Kill everything, and let random fluctuations in space time sort it out"
"Excellent!"
--
StSanta
Director EAC Underwater Operations Team
"We sunk the Ark II, bloody good job chaps!"
alt.atheism atheist #1116.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1619_3845234)
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch
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Why is the government giving my tax money to charity? If I want to give to charity I'll do it myself...I dont want the government to do it for me...thats not what I pay taxes for.
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i, like charlie brown, am a firm believer in the great pumpkin as well as the tooth fairy.
would you support the government donating to my great pumpkin charity?
even if part of our ritual was to worship a mystical pumpkin that lives in space and is going to come back some day and trash the bad guys?
what if i told you that the great pumpkin appeared as a flame in the desert 2000 years ago and told people that even if a person who has only been on the earth for 2 decades and is good his whole life and never harmed a soul, but doesnt believe in the great pumpkin, the great pumpkin will then send him away upon his death to be tortured for infinity - ????? -
or what if i had tooth fairey crap painted all over the wall and anyone who came in for charity had to sit and listen to me go on and on about how the tooth fairy is going to come save us and so on....i think the problem is that these charity push their beliefs on the recipients and that the govt should have zero to do with supporting one groups dogma or the other
( not tryin to be too much of a smart bellybutton hre eagler (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) but here is why some people have trouble watching the govt get involved with religion)
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its simple really dogmas are bad, all realigions have dogmas then all religions by definition push their dogmas so all religions are bad .any "charity" they do is just a way to increase their power/membership. this goes for any group of people who push a dogma . and also any one who thinks italy is ruled by the pope lol. everyone knows the mafia runs italy
p.s. they have all the religions in italy we have in this country ( tho probly less than the 7 baptist churches per town )
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Thats one helluva dogma you got there towd!
HAND (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yeager
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Ikjdrn, I was wondering how long before someone made this point. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I agree %100. Charity should be the domain of religion and neighbors. The government should provide a basic security net for people, but not be involved in re-distributing money for the needy.
I wish government in America would go back to it's roots, the way it was in the beginning, when it was lean. I think we would all be better off, most of all those who are in need of charity...
My .02
Gunthr
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Originally posted by Gunthr:
Ikjdrn, I was wondering how long before someone made this point. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I agree %100. Charity should be the domain of religion and neighbors. The government should provide a basic security net for people, but not be involved in re-distributing money for the needy. Gunthr
Gunthr
Too late. What do you think ANY entitlement program is but the re-distributing money for the needy. Every social government program does that now. By having the "faith based" and "non - faith based" organizations handle it, I think it'll be done cheaper and better than a bunch of government employees could handle it. Go down to your local tax or driver license office for a quick reminder how efficient the average government employee is....
Eagler
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LOL!
What is a "Progressive Income Tax"?
Nothing more and nothing less than the governmental redistribution of income.
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Yes Eagler, I'd want to take a look at those entitlement programs... not that I'm against helping people, but it just isn't right for government to use tax monies for this purpose. It's upside down.
Neighbors and friends should help people, not politicians, who try to make certain people and groups of people beholden to them. And nobody is in a better position to know who really deserves help than friends and neighbors... its a natural deterrent to fraud.
.02
Gunthr
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Socialists = communists.
<yawn>
Yeager, from your POV, is enlightenment just something that happens to other people?
By implication,
Typical rotten Nazi!!!
<not so funny when the boot is on the other foot, eh?>
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Dowding you poor bastard, you have my sympathies.
Yeager (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Who would you rather have redistributing wealth.....the U.S.Government or the church of satan?
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Originally posted by Eagler:
Gunthr
Too late. What do you think ANY entitlement program is but the re-distributing money for the needy. Every social government program does that now. By having the "faith based" and "non - faith based" organizations handle it, I think it'll be done cheaper and better than a bunch of government employees could handle it. Go down to your local tax or driver license office for a quick reminder how efficient the average government employee is....
Eagler
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This discussion about the comparative 'goodness' of religious organizations is moot. The 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights is at variance with what Bush is doing.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
In the wrong hands, a gun can be a dangerous thing...so what's your point? Because one religious organization misuses Religion that means everyone does?
Thanks for your correction (think/thing), sorry for my bad english.
It's not Religion, it's the church the problem.
Men, organization, power, money, proselization.
(hear an alarm rings in your head??)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Yeager:
Lemme guess Naso...your government IS the Pope?
Here we have every damned religeon you could imagine and then a whole bunch more that you couldnt.
Here too we have the same huge number of religion (we lack amish and nufurrian (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)).
But one is preferred, and have a political, BIG, influence, and a cultural too (schools).
This is a simple idea. Many churches, Mosques and Synagogues of all denominations provide social services to the needy and downtrodden. These faith based social services do a mighty fine job as it turns out. Far better than Federal Government programs. Allowing these private groups the opportunity to compete for funding with lazy federalist slags makes damned good sense in my opinion.
Try it. If it doesnt work, stop.
Agree, try it, but we are discussing in serenity, am I correct?
Ive heard the arguments about church and state and its all just so much athiest mumbling fumbling crap. In Italy there is a single large predominant religeon. No comparrison to the the many and varied religeons in these United States.
Yeager
You think atheists have no right to speech?
You think atheists have not to be worried when religion gain weight in the government?
Answer theese two simple questions.
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Originally posted by -towd_:
and also any one who thinks italy is ruled by the pope lol. everyone knows the mafia runs italy
p.s. they have all the religions in italy we have in this country ( tho probly less than the 7 baptist churches per town )
Yeah, and mafia RULE THE WORLD!!!
WTG Mafia!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
your p.s. is perfect. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)