Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cav58d on April 03, 2006, 01:22:29 AM
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I am an American...I can trace my familys origin to this country back to the end of the Civil War....When you ask me my Nationality, no matter what country I am in, I will tell you American, and I will be proud. Why is it that in my experience most Americans I come across feel so differently? If I had a dollar for everytime I saw an Irish, or Italian flagged tattoo on an American born citizen who's never left this country i'd be a millionaire...So why do Americans feel so inclined to reply when being asked what their nationality is to say German, or Italian, or French? Honestly it makes me sad...Wheres the pride? Funny thing is you ask punk gotti wanna be quote on quote italian american teenager from STRONG ISLAND what his nationlity is here in the states ofcourse he will tell you italian...no...he will lie and say sicillian...And that he is connected to the Mafia, and that his mother is the greatest cook in the world...anyways, ask this kid the same question while he is vacationing in Europe, and my bet is he will tell you hes American...What gives?
Lately when I ask an American their nationality and they respond with something NON US I will ask them 1- Sing me, and if you cant do that, hum that countrys national anthem....2-Who is the President/Prime Minister?
I honestly dont think anyone has ever been able to respond with the right answer after these foreign claims...
whatever...I dunno like I said it just really upsets me, and I wish that the average American could have pride for the country that has given them everything, instead of identifying with a land they have never seen....
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Atsa da spicy meataball!
In the US or out, I tell people I'm an Oregonian.
Most of the time out of the country I have to add "near california"
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I think that most americans don't know what nationality means. I have to keep that in mind everytime another american asks me what my nationality is.
Do I answer the question he asked, or do I answer the question he meant to ask.
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Originally posted by cav58d
I am an American...I can trace my familys origin to this country back to the end of the Civil War
Can you trace what country they came from?
Do i have to be born in US to be an American:)?
If so
When/if kids will be born in States,they no longer Armenians but Americans?
Jews in America arent realy jews but Americans?
I cant answer those,may be you can:)
Thanks
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I put down "human" in the race column every chance I get...
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Originally posted by eagl
I put down "human" in the race column every chance I get...
*sniff*
:cry
how touching
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uuh Meat Popsicle
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Where are you asking people about their nationality? If an American in America asks another American about his nationality, its kind of a "no **** sherlock" that he's American, so they default to their national ancestry -- ie Irish, German, Italian, whatever. But if you're overseas, or asked by someone who likely isn't American, then you'd probably say American by default. Its all in who's asking the question.
Kinda like when someone asks where I'm from. If I'm close to home I'll give my actual city name. If I'm travelling in-state or in the midwest I might just say "Detroit" even though I technically don't live there. If I'm far from home but still in the US I might just say "Michigan." And if I'm overseas, I say "the USA." It's all a matter of scale and context; it wouldn't make sense to tell the chick at the local bar that I'm from Michigan or the US - they already assume that.
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KGB...Listen this thread may have come off wrong to you, but by no means does it have any racist, or one country superior than the other intentions....This apply's to any nation, and I just understand how a person can live in a country...follow its laws...follows it's norms, customs and traditions, but yet when it comes down to telling someone your nationality they claim it to be some place they have never been...
To answer your questions...Yes, I can trace my roots back...As far as my family knows, every recorded member since they came here was from Germany....Trivial in my opinion though...Just because family members, generation upon generation ago came from somewhere does not mean I have any allegiance to that country, nor does it mean I should think of that country higher than others...
Do you have to be born in America to be an American? No, ofcourse not...As soon as you obtain LEGAL status through naturalization I consider you an American, and I sure as hell hope this theoretical person would consider him/herself American first and foremost.
As far as your Jewish question...Nationality is defined as:
The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization.
Existence as a politically autonomous entity; national independence.
Using these definations I dont think its legit to identify your nationality through religion...Theres Jews, Christians, Muslims, every denomination of religion on every continent....
But nationality can also be defined as a people having common origins or traditions and often constituting a nation, where using a religous answer to nationlity could be valid. But then comes in the word "nation". I would hardly call the US a Jewish Nation...Small community but it does not reflect the norms of the nation...
alright im done talking religion because I will un doubtedly piss someone off...
:)
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"What gives?"
If you don't understand, let me help you.
"Lately when I ask an American their nationality..."
You're asking someone in the melting pot of America, who you know is American, their nationality?
Asking such a nonsense question would lead the person to think that you're trying to ask their ethnic background, but maybe not too bright or misspoke.
Or maybe you're just fishing to find something to rail about?
{Added: You beat me to the punch, Tarmac... we must have been typing at the same time. ;)}
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Tarmac...In my experience its not a no watermelon sherlook answer, and I think it attest how much my generation has disaligned itself from previous generations, and in specific "the greatest generation of all time"...I ask the question to certain people only looking for one certain answer, and I do that because im looking to see if theres any pride left out there...Wheres the nationalism? Quoting the announcer from the TORA TORA TORA aerial demonstration team..."You are an American. No matter where your family may have come from you live in America and you are American. A member of the greatest country in the universe.....and if anyone tells you different you tell them no sir you are wrong" I wish I could see that pride in every American...
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I think the message here is about the divider.
When anyone uses the *******-American, what are they putting first?
The divider tends to attachs importants to that which divides us as a people.
One could say I'm an American of Irish ancestry, or African ancestory, or German ancestry, or any number of ancestories. Possibly, or perhaps more likely, a mixed ancestory can be used.
Such a statement puts much less emphasis on the DIFFERENCES.
Semantics? as in when (order), how (pronounciation/tonal inflection) a word is used as well as the word chosen.
Sadly few people pay much attention to semantics/word usage.
Example? Many of the films and such put out during World War II continually reffered to Americans that might be from ....... but always came back and said they were all JUST Americans.
So I think the question being put forth in this thread is what shall we do as
Americans divide or unite?
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I'm Irish, you can trace my family name back over a thousand years. But over a thousand years ago there was no such thing as Irish. So you identified yourself as per your clan or your area. That still holds true, in Ireland when someone asks me where I'm from, I say Dublin or I might explain that my Father came from Limerick and I have family there. I also have English ancestry but we don't like to talk about that;) Overseas, I would naturally say Irish and frequently narrow that down to Dublin even though I don't live there anymore.
So you see it's not just Americans who identify themselves in that way. You might argue that that's all very well and fine but Limerick is still part of Ireland not some foreign country. (Some may disagree:lol )
The point, I'm making, I think, is that we all like to know where we came from and be identify ourselves as part of a group or community. I think it's a natural tendency. Remember too, America is a nation of immigrants, 200 hundred years ago there were few Americans and most of them were of English ancestry. Often people from common ancestry settle in the same place. New York or Boston being a classic example. So you lived with people who could speak your language and had common customs.
I think it's just a need to be part of something a little smaller than being American. Texans I found always make a point of telling you they're from Texas just in case you thought they were merely another American.
I can't see why you object to people describing themselves as anything other than American when you meet them in America. I think for many people not just in America the country they live in is out there somewhere in a vague kind of way. But their own family, village, town, state, ethnic origin is more immediate and easy to grasp. I doubt if that means they feel any less pride in being American. I remember overhearing a conversation once. A guy was explaining he was from Minnesota and that he was the only Irishman in an area full of Germans. You can see what he meant.
I think you are being a little harsh on your fellow Americans.
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I put whatever is popular at the time in the race column when it comes to loans and such. If there is an advantage to one race or the other I don't want to miss out on it.
lazs
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Originally posted by KgB
Can you trace what country they came from?
Do i have to be born in US to be an American:)?
If so
When/if kids will be born in States,they no longer Armenians but Americans?
Jews in America arent realy jews but Americans?
I cant answer those,may be you can:)
Thanks
Being Jewish isnt a nationality. Its a religeon.
YOU are an Armenian American.
Your Childen if born here are Americans of Armenian decent.
I am an American of German, Spanish,Irish,English,Hungarian,Slovac, and Prussian decent.
Not a hard concept really
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I have dual nationality...British and Canadian.
It has come in very handy at various times in my life.
Chest beating nationalism has spilled almost as much blood as religion in world history.
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Very touchy issue. I live out here in nyc and there more anti american ***** out here then there terrorist in the middle east. I really dont like the fact that people come here and dont even want to learn english. A sense of pride in the stars n bars is no where in site out here. I get into alot of heated arguements over it. On the anniversy of pearl harbor this jamican guy said "why should i give a fu*k about it, there was no blacks there"(when if you watch the the documentary you see blacks fighting the japans). I had to give him the facts about the war and make him feel dum, then i simply asked him "why dont you go back to jamica", but now im the bad guy. And thats not the worst of it. The ones that really piss me off are the anti war people. I remeber the day the towers fell, I had papers from the towers all over my block.......but the whole war is wrong. I understand that this war on terror is different from what we every seen but to denie the respect to the troops that gave there life for the cause is too much. If you left it to me the desert would be napalmed until the whole thing is a sheet of glass. I do think this post his anything to do about race but about having pride....being proud to be american.
(please excuse me if my spelling is off, that hour forward messed me up):rolleyes:
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Thanks cav58d and DREDIOCK
Correction.
Jewdaism is a religion.
Jew is a natioality
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism)
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Originally posted by KgB
Thanks cav58d and DREDIOCK
Correction.
Jewdaism is a religion.
Jew is a natioality
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism)
I'm going to guess that "Jewish" is a lifestyle.
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Just yesterday we had an item on the news that made my blood boil. A woman who had one son killed by gunfire last year had her home rushed by police with a search warrent looking for guns etc....Her other son had a collection of stolen guns, rifles, drugs and other stuff...they carted him and the goods off.
She was in total denial saying her son would not be involved in that kind of thing. The police showed her what they found; She said it was all planted there! (the police car trunk was full of stuff they found there) She then complains about how messy the cops left her sons room!!! ...and adds she feels like taking her citizenship paper and throwing it in the garbage.
On top of that, she was a leader in the community against gun violence. Kind of like a drug dealer with "say no to drugs" on the bumber sticker imo.
Well if she (and others like her) don't want to be here, we should just send them back to Jamaica. I'd be willing to pay her way outta here.
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there was someone once who said in a few generations, like 3 or 4 the people in America will be true "mutts" with to much various lineage to trace to 1 country of origin. as it is right now, many of us have direct parents or direct grandparents who emmigrated, so they is sort of an nationality in many of us.
myself, my grandparents emmigrated from Sweden, and my mother was 100% Swedish in heritage, even though she was born in Michigan.
a friend from highschool's grandparents were from Germany, and they sopke german in the home, i'd say he was "German" in a way.
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Good post Cav. I can relate to the topic very well. My foreign heritage is half Polish and half Russian. I always considered myself American (Period) – my birth heritage. Therefore the way I look at it is I’m not Polish-American or Russian-American, just American. I play the bagpipes for the local police pipe band and have competed solo winning a lot of medals over the years. Often I am asked “What’s a pole doing playing the pipes?” and I always reply “I’m not Polish, I’m American – an American playing the pipes.” You can usually hear the questioners “Blank” Cheeks pucker up and close tight a mile away. America seems to have a hard time finding an identity, probably due still to our infancy as a country. That plus the current political climate does not help. The die-hard left-wing Liberals dislike the country seeing it as flawed and radical changes are required to make it better. The right-wing conservatives embrace this country for what it is and feel no very little change is needed right now. I of course am of the latter. I love our country and what it represents. I am proud to be an American. Sad thing is that I think our own freedoms might just do us in as a country. I hope not – I hope my son can grow up and enjoy the same things I have. I don’t want him or my grandkids (Wishful thinking) to grow up in the United States of Mexico (I’m sure you’ve seen the crap going on in California last week – very patriotic) or the United States of Islam (Libs still want to hug em and try to understand them).
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I went thru a Border Patrol checkpoint east of El Paso. When the officer asked me my nationality, I told him Texan.
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i am euro-american.
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I'm not.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
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I'm Yorkshire.
(http://www.phill.co.uk/comedy/losw/losw28.jpg)
(http://www.compleatseanbean.com/mainsharpepic.jpg)
(http://www.innonthecove.com/images/column_photos/yorkshire_pudding_recipe.jpg)
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/g/gb-e-yks.gif)
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Hey nice flag you got there :)
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Still say mine is better ;).
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
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Originally posted by Dowding
I'm Yorkshire.
Same here: North Riding
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Why are peple so "proud" of their nationality?
Did you have to do more than simply be born into it? Are you the ones that made it better than other nationalities?
For the few that immigrated and got a new nationality have even less to be proud of. They gave up on their old one because it most likely stinks and got a new one which they contributed nothing to and intend to exploit. Their change of nationality was for personal gain.
Or are they "proud" like the gay community? Yes, they are a social minority, discriminated against and they get shafted in ways the body was not designed for, but at least they are "proud" of it.
But hey, what ever makes one happy.
Bozon
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Originally posted by Dowding
I'm Yorkshire.
Eeee lad, tha' knows.
;)
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Not from Yorkshire but was christend just above Halifax....one parent fm yorkshire one from lancashire :) hehehe
But brought up in the rose of the shires ...northamptonshire (well thats what it says on the signs entering the county )
First n formost though im a BRIT ):
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Originally posted by KgB
Thanks cav58d and DREDIOCK
Correction.
Jewdaism is a religion.
Jew is a natioality
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism)
No offence but sorry I dont recognise being Jewish as a Nationality unless they are from Isreal. but then again. they would be Isreali.
Thats like claiming Catholic is a nationality, Or better yet and probably more accurate, Gypsy
Seems the best arguement that link could come up with for Jews being a nationality is "Because it just is."
LOL That arguement Just doesnt hold water.
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Originally posted by Whisky58
Originally posted by Dowding
I'm Yorkshire.
Eeee lad, tha' knows.
;)
A guy from Yorkshire's wife dies.
He goes to the local tombstone maker to get a stone for his wife's grave. Pondering what he should have written on it he finally decides to have, "Here lies my wife. She was thine."
He tells this to the owner of the establishment.
A few days later he returns to collect the gravestone.
On it is written: "Here lies my wife. She was thin."
A tad irritated he goes to the owner who did the inscription. "Lookie here lad, you forgot the "e"."
"Not to worry, I'll fix it" the man says.
The next day the widower arrives back at the gravestone place.
The man proudly displays the revised gravestone which read:
"Here lies my wife. Eeeee she was thin."
;)
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I'm second generation stunninghunk and proud of it:aok
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Originally posted by Curval
A guy from Yorkshire's wife dies.
"Here lies my wife. Eeeee she was thin."
:lol :aok
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Originally posted by expat
Not from Yorkshire but was christend just above Halifax....one parent fm yorkshire one from lancashire :) hehehe
Born in Lancashire, but live near Halifax!
Where were you Christened m8?
Regards
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18/f/cali
come see my live hot webcam
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Originally posted by KgB
Thanks cav58d and DREDIOCK
Correction.
Jewdaism is a religion.
Jew is a natioality
-------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism)
Judaism is a lot of things depending on what kind of a jew you are.
If you think that it is a nationality then you support Zionism - Those jews are in Israel, for those abroad it is not a nationality.
Bozon
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Originally posted by eagl
I put down "human" in the race column every chance I get...
LOL. Me too.
I did this on my kid's birth certificate and here is what they put on the official printed version:
Mother: White
Father: Unknown
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well nationality is related to my passsport... at least overhere.
If you say, that you are British everybody will expect, that you have british passport and citizenship, however they will not expect, that you did born in UK.
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Originally posted by bozon
Judaism is a lot of things depending on what kind of a jew you are.
If you think that it is a nationality then you support Zionism - Those jews are in Israel, for those abroad it is not a nationality.
Bozon
hehe i would say, that they dont even know the diference themself...
Last time that i meet 3 "Jews" it was in China and they claimed to be "french Jews" ... umm ... soo... well :D
i guess that "Jewdaism" was some sort of typo right ?
Or some special ultra ubber emrekan-english expresion ?
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Curval. :D
Born and live in Sheffield. If there is a god, I think this would be his country.
Swoop - the flag isn't quite as good as yours, true. It's a concept one for the United Pit Villages of Yorkshire ;).
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We still have some pit villages?? :(
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What kind of American are you Cav? Are you a North American or South American? You have to understand because we are form the United States of America we aren't the only Americans. We are....United States citizens, yes? It's naturally assumed by most that when you say you are American you are from the United States, but everyone from Argentina to Canada is technically an American.
When someone asks my ethnic background I say European-American, if you want to hear what countries my family originated from i'll go there, but most of the time I don't feel the need to. We're all immigrants aren't we? You can't have national pride for your German heritage because you were born in America?
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:rolleyes: You all are not pure American this country was founded by immigrants:aok
(http://www.gmroper.com/archives/flag-animated.gif)
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Originally posted by RAIDER14
:rolleyes: You all are not pure American this country was founded by immigrants:aok
(http://www.gmroper.com/archives/flag-animated.gif)
Well for that matter neither is anyone outside of Africa.
Everyones ancestors immigrated from someplace else
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People ask me that question all the time. If I simply answered "American", people would either think I was offended by their query or being a smart ass.
Why do you ask a loaded question and then get upset when people respond to what they think you're asking? Seems to me you're getting mad because it didn't follow the pattern, "ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer." If you need something to be upset about, I guess that's as good as anything else.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Swoop - the flag isn't quite as good as yours, true. It's a concept one for the United Pit Villages of Yorkshire ;).
Dowd......you're a good lad.
Despite being a northern git. ;).
Go on.....call me a soft southern poof, ya know ya want to :aok.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
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Whisky58
Was christend in southowram (forgive spelling )
Not been back for a looooooong time .
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unlike just about everyone i know, i consider myself a Californian more than i do an American. if there was a civil war today, i would side with California even if we were the only ones on our side.
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Swoop - I've said it before and I'll say it again... ;)
BTW, my brother is thinking about coming back to AH when ToD (or whatever it's called) is released. Although his one year old daughter may interfere. :)
Maybe we'll see Kronos, Snogoose et al as well? Would be good to get the squad together on a couple of mission.
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Or ya could just convince em all to join No.1 Squadron...... ;)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1137109117_20029211530-0-swoop.gif)
P.S. btw, are you still gay? :D