Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Toons on April 04, 2006, 09:25:32 AM
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not sure exactly what happened, or what i should have done here.
i was flying a f4u-d, and i was getting ready to rtb. had about a quarter tank of fuel.
as i was getting ready to head back to base, a lone p-38 flew ho to me, engaging me. i had about 250 kts. and maybe 7k alt, so i dove for the deck to get speed and extend to disengage. the problem was that i was extending away from base and friendlies, so i pulled up into a loop to reverse direction. sure enough, the p-38 was still back there, about 1000 yards out. as i came over the top, we went head on again, and i continued my loop until i was about 100' feet off the water, heading full blast rtb.
i was giving the plane everything i had, including wep, but after a few seconds i had tracers going by my windshield. i was jinking, but as the tracers kept coming, i wasn't sure if he was closing or losing ground.
i didn't know if i could drag him all the way to friendly territory, so i pulled back into him a third time to engage. as i came over the top, he had angles on me, maybe 600 yds back and shooting. as i went inverted and back nose low, i rolled right 90-110 degrees, and pulled into a left, high yo-yo turn. a few second later, bullets shredded my plane. i bailed, but with no altitude, i couldn't open my chute in time and died.
anyway, any advice in this situation is welcome. i've read the soda's aircraft pages, and i didn't think a p-38 would be able to turn with me, nor climb with me. the bottom line was i should have never let this guy get on my 6...that was poor sa in letting him engage me with me heading towards enemy territory.
i think the guy's name was clnumb or something like that.
thanks,
toons
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dont go far form teammates
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p38 is a good climber. Better than the F4uD. When u looped you played straight into his hands. I would also say the p38 with some flaps is more than adequate to turn with your flap down F4uD.
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Toons go here: http://www.netaces.org/ahmain/siteframe.html#title
This is the NetAces Climbrate and Speed evaluation charts for AH.
You will find that at low altitudes the P38L (with WEP) will climb far better than a F4U4....much less an F4U-1.
F4U-1 is faster at lower alts, but a P38 will definitely accelerate much much quicker than a hog.
As for turning, a P38 used to be able to turn with spit9s, now it seems to turn like a 109, but it can still outturn a hog (usually).
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Your 1st mistake was to panic and run - and so you ended up in the wrong direction. 250 mph and 7k is good enough for some dancing around before deciding to disengage. With a better roll, better dive speed and eventually better deck speed, you can time your escape as you please.
Your 2nd mistake was to run ineffectively. By being predictable you allowed him to lead you and cut your turn, but pulling hard pull-up manuvers you blew your energy. In stead of going straight up, do a high speed nose low turn. Offer the 38 a hard deflection shot and then make it harder by pushing yourself under his nose just as he's about to fire and pass under him. Then continue the low G nose low turn to your intended direction.
Finally you decided to fight it out when you lost all your advantages and he's already in a firing position. High yo-yo is almost the worst manuver you could have tried. A scissors fight might have offered you a slim chance of success.
If you had fought him from the start you'd have a good chance to defeat him - or die honorably and learn something about fighting instead of running.
Moral of the day - try fighting before running. You don't really die.
Good luck next fight :aok
Bozon
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Nice troll
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Originally posted by Hazard69
As for turning, a P38 used to be able to turn with spit9s,...
It still can turn with Spitfires, just depends on who's flying the Lightning I guess.
ack-ack
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Against a P-38 using vertical manuevers is suicide.
What you "maybe" should have done. We'll never know since we weren't there.
F4-U has a great dive, if you felt you were disadvantaged from the get go, you should have dove out and run, in the correct direction. Sounds like you ran in the wrong direction initially and blew your E having to get turned around again. Fatal mistake, If you make the decision to run, (no shame in it) do it right! Get that 38 on your tail, go straight down and try and get him to compress and auger, at the least he'll have to slow down to avoid compression, and you'll be able to put some serious distance between you two.
If you have to fight, the F4U has only 2 real advantages on the 38, inital turn and slamming on the brakes. This means scissors, scissors, scissors. Rolling scissors, lateral scissors, vertical scissors, whatever. Throw out full flaps, gear, boat anchor, whatever it takes to get that 38 in front of you. Watch for him to go vertical and try to rope, if you've saved enough energy, you can pop full flaps and hammer him on the way up. Once you get low and slow a smart 38 pilot will eat you up. Your only hope is to force the overshoot and use those monster flaps to get your nose on the 38 before he can re-setup on you.
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Toons,
You could have stayed in a hard left turn and keep deploying flaps until you have them all down. You will be turning at about 2G's at 115MPH at that speed and after about three turns you will be on his 6 or he will break off.
The only way from that position he could have gotten you would be to go virtical and use a "lag pursuit". The P-38 did not have a great turn radius and it is so in AH. Don't be afraid of slow sustained turns in the F4U in 1 on 1's against other American fighters.
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The 38 compares very closely with the hogs. about the only thing that could have saved you was you knowing the hog VERY well and the 38 pilot NOT knowing the 38 very well.
The 38 can dive as well as a hog and compression isn't a big thing if you know what your doing, 500 knots is just bouncy, but controllable :)
The 38 slows as well as a hog so unless the 38 driver isn't paying attention the over shoot would be very dificult. Flap deployment, gear and rudders work about the same...the hogs rudder is bigger, but the 38 has 2 of them :)
The climb rates go to the 38, with the zoom climb being close for both.
Turning the 38 has it hands down.
But like posted already, turning to attack can help more than running because it could force the 38 into a mistake, and planes are cheap :)
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Turning the 38 has it hands down.
Not the last time I looked.
Turn Performance Comparisons, version 2.06
Plane Type (SL setting used)
- time to complete tightest possible circle at normal flight (turning speed), radius
- time to complete tightest possible circle, one notch of flaps (turning speed), radius
- time to complete tightest possible circle, full flaps (turning speed), radius
F4U-1 (1.0)
- 20 seconds (154mph), 219.2m
- 21 seconds (138mph), 206.2m
- 20 seconds (106mph), 150.9m
F4U-1D (1.0)
- 19 seconds (160mph), 216.4m
- 19 seconds (149mph), 201.5m
- 19 seconds (110mph), 148.7m
F4U-1C (1.0)
- 21 seconds (162mph), 242.1m
- 20 seconds (150mph), 213.5m
- 20 seconds (110mph), 156.6m
F4U-4 (1.0)
- 19 seconds (168mph), 227.2m
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 18 seconds (113mph), 144.7m
P-38G (0.05)
- 19 seconds (174mph), 235.3m
- 20 seconds (157mph), 223.5m
- 18 seconds (116mph), 148.6m
P-38J (0.05)
- 21 seconds (180mph), 269.0m
- 19 seconds (170mph), 229.9m
- 19 seconds (116mph), 156.8m
P-38L (0.05)
- 21 seconds (184mph), 275.0m
- 19 seconds (169mph), 228.5m
- 19 seconds (119mph), 160.9m
..
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It still can turn with Spitfires, just depends on who's flying the Lightning I guess.
ack-ack
lolz:rofl
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well yall know the 38 is uber hehehe but once u make it hit 150 it drops like a rock now about in a flat turn but in other manuvers i've gotten it to like 125 at the moment but it takes forever to complete a turn. So you could have just done a real slow low turn and tried to get on his 6. So he would "extend" hehehe then rope you most likely or try.
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Shame on you letting that big, beautiful blue bird die to a measley ol' 38! :D
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It still can turn with Spitfires, just depends on who's flying the Lightning I guess.
ack-ack
Why you laugh at that skyrock I dont know. I've beat spit5's in a light pony before plenty of times. And with the 38 I've done it more. And yes, like the F4u, it does make all the difference in the world who is flying what and how they're flying it.
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Originally posted by SAS_KID
well yall know the 38 is uber hehehe but once u make it hit 150 it drops like a rock now about in a flat turn but in other manuvers i've gotten it to like 125 at the moment but it takes forever to complete a turn. So you could have just done a real slow low turn and tried to get on his 6. So he would "extend" hehehe then rope you most likely or try.
Alot of people do not understand or know how to take the 38 below 100mph and keep it under control. Its not a hard plane to fly once you "get it". "Getting it" is sometimes more difficult for some than others. I've had people ask me if I could help them in the 38. I never found it that difficult to fly. I always stall fight in it, low, slow, with far better turning planes. Playing into their planes "game" then beating them has always been something I enjoyed doing the most.
Again, the 38 is not a tough plane to fly. Its sad to hear that its' been so badly porked that its nothing more than a light bomber now... But thats the way the cookie crumbles I guess. I think its a real shame though. Something I've enjoyed flying for years now, ruined with a few lines of code.
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Sorry, but you can't outturn a spit with a 38 right now unless the spit is a complete idiot. Go 2 or 3 turns with him, and break out, and restart.
38 needs full flaps to turn with these rides, and get maximum stall effect. Right now full flaps has a bug with too much drag. ;)
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Originally posted by Lazerr
Sorry, but you can't outturn a spit with a 38 right now unless the spit is a complete idiot. Go 2 or 3 turns with him, and break out, and restart.
38 needs full flaps to turn with these rides, and get maximum stall effect. Right now full flaps has a bug with too much drag. ;)
Agreed ... There is not a P-38 that could fly inside my Spit V in a real knife fight ... I don't care who you are.
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I have not yet come across a p38 that can out turn my hog in 1 on 1 situation low and slow or even at high speeds even before patch. That is with the f4u-1.
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If you had fought him from the start you'd have a good chance to defeat him - or die honorably and learn something about fighting instead of running.
Exactly - Running in a computer game is for sheep!
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Originally posted by Lazerr
Right now full flaps has a bug with too much drag. ;)
Is it bugged now, or was it bugged before?
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its bugged now urching, pyro posted on it.
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Originally posted by MwDogg
I have not yet come across a p38 that can out turn my hog in 1 on 1 situation low and slow or even at high speeds even before patch. That is with the f4u-1.
Prior to the most recent patch, the F4U-1 models (the CHog less so) could turn with the P-38s flaps out. However, the P-38J and P-38L would win simply by being better in the vertical. In other words, once both aircraft are down around 100 mph, the Lightning pilot can stooge around with the nose higher than any of the F4U-1 models.
However, since the full-flap drag bug was introduced in the last patch, the P-38s can no long get and keep their noses above the horizon with full flaps.
I did some testing with both types and found that with one notch short of full flaps, the P-38s can't turn with the F4Us.
In a 2g turn, I can fly the F4U-1D at 97 mph. The best I could manage with a P-38J was 114 mph. The Corsair was averaging just under 18 seconds per 360 degree revolution, whereas the P-38J was taking nearly 20 seconds.
All of the above aside, neither the F4Us or P-38s cannot out-turn a Spitfire flown by even a half-assed pilot. Sure, you can gain angles by careful flying, but anything approaching a sustained turn fight is going to go against the heavier fighters.
I know, some guys are going to argue that they have out-turned Spitfires with the P-38 or F4U many times... No they didn't, they simply out-turned a pilot who had no idea how to utilize the full maneuvering ability of the Spitfire.
Last evening, Soda, Murdr and I flew a "Trainer's Challenge". We challenge players to intercept us and prevent us from reaching a Bish base. Several came up to play. Soda and Murdr flew P-38Gs and I took an F4U-1D. We mostly played around with them, me playing rabbit with a SpitV while Murdr and Soda gobbled him up (over and over). I eventually stalled the F4U in while turning 85 mph circles with the Spit. I grabbed another F4U and headed back. Soda called it a flight (low gas, I think) and departed. Murdr and I continued playing with them as they kept changing planes looking for the magic ride. Eventually Murdr went bingo with empty guns. I ended up facing a pair of Spit16s on the deck flown by guys playing for only a few months at most.
Against relatively inexperienced pilots, you can easily out-turn their Spit16s with a Corsair, as this film of the final moments of the "challenge" shows. (http://home.att.net/~historyworld/film175_11852B.ahf)
I guess my point is this: Out-turning Spits with a P-38 or an F4U reflects on the other guy's skills more than your skills or your airplane. The MA is loaded with guys like these two; with little skills yet, but with lots of enthusiasm and no fear.
With equal pilots, a P-38 or F4U cannot afford to turn fight with Spitfires for more than a few turns. If the do, they will die. Better kill 'em fast or have an exit plan formulated.
My regards,
Widewing
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hey guys,
thanks for the inputs.
i'm very new, about 2 weeks in, so i'm not flying any plane in ah to its max performance. i want to try to learn how to excel at one particular aircraft, so i'm trying to stick with one or two planes most nights.
i like the corsair because it's a carrier fighter, and u.s. fighter, and is just bad looking. but, i'm finding it hard to effectively fight with it.
i've read through the aircraft descriptions, and the corsair seems like a high performance aircraft. i just can't seem to figure out where it excels against my opponents most nights.
the bottom line, though, is that i never should have gotten in that position in the first place (bad sa) and i should've engaged off the bat. once i tried to disengage, i gave up every advantage i had. it never even occured to me to drop some flaps.
see ya,
toons
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the bottom line, though, is that i never should have gotten in that position in the first place (bad sa) and i should've engaged off the bat. once i tried to disengage, i gave up every advantage i had. it never even occured to me to drop some flaps.
Excellent! (Burns voice off)
Each fighter has a primary roll so to speak, I.E. Typhoon=BnZ and Spitfire=TnB. Now don't get me wrong the guys that are good can TnB in a BnZ plane, but they are the exceptions.
The trick is to know where the planes fall in the above and then fly them to their limits.
For the Corsair it is a really good BnZ airplane and it is a fair TnB if you know how to use it. However, you will not be able to fly into 4 to 1 odds or worse with it and expect to survive. Where as you could take a spit 16 into that situation and the odds of you killing them all or staying alive till a friendly comes to help are much better.
If you find yourself looking for fast paced action, against the odds, take up something that has average speed but can turn well - till you get better and more expierianced.
If you find yourself climbing and diving on people then take a faster plane and try not to get slow.
Don't be afraid to fight and die. Every time you die you learn something. Those guys that stay in their safety zone and never push the edge will only be so good. Every time they come up against someone that knows how to push the edge they will lose.
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The first thing u did wrong was go vertical a p 38 can plaster you going high, i'm a p 38 pilot and i lay in wait waiting for someone to do it. I can maintain my energy level better and plaster him whiles he high and slow falling out the air. another thing what are you doing trying to run away, you can't outrun a p 38, a spitfire, 109 yes, not a p 38 you'll only die tired. What you should have done was dogfight him a little, try to bleed his energy and hit the throttles and get away you might have made it. The game in the p-38 is to wait, observe, and blow by them with speed and vertical performance and kill them. If i get locked up with someone i try to keep my energy up and go vertical to get away, most can't follow me, and i kill them on the way down. don't play the p-38's, game, which is try to outrun him, climb , etc, dogfight him and try to make lose his energy, then you kill him, it takes a patient pilot to fly that plane, thatts how they always kill me, i get impatient and start playing their game and then i die!
;) :O
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Here is a quote from Widewing regarding AH version 2.06
Originally posted by Widewing
Next up was the P-38G at 75% fuel. Manual trimming, no flaps, I recorded 18.57 seconds @ 170-173 mph. I didn't bother with one notch and went straight to full flaps. I recorded 16.11 seconds @ 121-123 mph. Speeds were taken from film.
Loading 50% fuel, the same test resulted in 15.72 seconds @ 122-124 mph.
Now, if I really reefed it in super tight, working the rudders hard to maintain attitude and altitude, I recorded 17.23 seconds @ 103-105 mph. This produced a tighter radius, but a lower turn rate than the previous run.
My normal load for the P-38G is 50% internal gas and a single drop tank to get me to the party.
I also tested the P-38J, 50% fuel. My best full flaps results were:
17.59 seconds @ 106-108 mph
16.22 seconds @ 114-115 mph
16.13 seconds @ 122-124 mph
What is my point? There are no absolutes, you need to take context into account. Gross weight is a performance factor. You can see this in WW's results, but you can also see it in Kwe's results between the F4u-1 and the F4u-1d. The F4u-1d is going to be lighter because its fuel capacity is less.
Another factor is the context of specific maneuvers. It has been stated that a P38 cannot out turn a spitfire in sustained turns. This is entirely correct. However, there are specific situations where I can loop with specific model spits indefinately. There are specific altitudes where I have no fear of turning a P38 with a spit.
You can take any model plane as an example, but most have strong points that can circumvent general rules you may have read about its dogfighting abilities, and the better pilots know exactly how, when, and where to deploy those tactics when the circumstances are right.
Oops, I have to hand over the computer now
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Using fuel PERCENTAGE to compare weights between the D and 1-Hogs is a bit troublesome tho, because as pointed out an F4U-1 at 100% fuel carries a bigger load than the -1D. I RARELY fly the 1-Hog at full fuel. Usually I fly her at 50%, which works out to slightly less than 100% of the D-Hog (Think it puts the main tank at ~85-90% full). WW will probably correct me on this, but if you fly at equal ACTUAL fuel levels the 1-Hog is actually a tad bit lighter.
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Yep sax, the -1 model is just a bit lighter than the -1D when they are empty, but with both at 75% fuel (which is what those test results were done at) the -1 is nearly 500lbs heavier because of fuel capacity. If you were to compair the two at the same number of gallons fuel, they should perform nearly equally, with maybe a slight edge to the -1.
To carry that line of thought further, with the F4u-1D and the P38J loaded to 75%, the 38J will have about 800lbs more fuel weight than the -1D. Again, evening up fuel weight, is going to close up the performance margins. As Fugative said those 2 planes compair closely, and one can not automatically take for granted who will outperform who in flat out turning performance in the MA enviroment.
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Originally posted by Toons
i like the corsair because it's a carrier fighter, and u.s. fighter, and is just bad looking. but, i'm finding it hard to effectively fight with it.
i've read through the aircraft descriptions, and the corsair seems like a high performance aircraft. i just can't seem to figure out where it excels against my opponents most nights.
the bottom line, though, is that i never should have gotten in that position in the first place (bad sa) and i should've engaged off the bat. once i tried to disengage, i gave up every advantage i had. it never even occured to me to drop some flaps.
see ya,
toons
Well, as fighters the F4U-1s have few weaknesses. Basically, average climb rates and poor level acceleration are about all anyone can find to complain about.
You can partially offset the acceleration issue by trading some altitude for airspeed. Not a bad thing as the F4U zoom climbs like crazy and can convert speed into altitude very well.
Ultimately, the thing you need to learn about the F4Us is when and how much flaps to use. With full flaps, you can maneuver with good control down to speeds well below 100 mph. It has a powerful rudder that adds to its ability to change direction rapidly while hovering near a stall.
Ideally, the flaps can start being deployed at 250 mph, which is very, very close to the plane's corner velocity. This means that it can transition from high-speed turning to low-speed turning seamlessly. That's something the axis and Soviet fighters cannot do. Great roll rate, excellent E retention and relatively high critical Mach all combine to make the aircraft a threat under any circumstances. An added plus is how its landing gear was designed to be used as a speed brake. You can dump the gear at 400 mph and decelerate rapidly. This is usefull for causing overshoots, or rapidly reducing the turn radius.
Stick with the F4U. Come to the TA on a week night and we can practice in Corsairs.
My regards,
Widewing
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Back again! I know this is a relatively old post... but correct me if I'm mistaken when I say that the P-38L should outturn planes like a Spit8 intially with those Fowler flaps...
According to the knowledge I've attampted to compiled in my tiny head, Fowler flaps increase wing area when they open, allowing the 'Devil' to outturn the likes of the P-51 -for example- with no prob at all. But according to Dr.Gonzo's charts, the P-51 will outturn the P-38 when both use flaps. I do often outturn 'Stangs in my Lightning, but I'm just assuming they don't use full flap...
or does my use of rudder help me turn immensely? Hmm...
I mean, that whole P-38 vs. Spit14 thing... the P-38 won hands down.
and Sax, good ol' pal, the P-38's uber and absolutely sextacular lol. The Hog is too, so don't take away my soul by insulting Kelly's invension. =P
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Originally posted by LYNX
p38 is a good climber. Better than the F4uD. When u looped you played straight into his hands. I would also say the p38 with some flaps is more than adequate to turn with your flap down F4uD.
I would disagree if both started at same E, hog has angles 38 cant do and 38 has angles hog cant do so it comes down to chess! :aok
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AHHHHHH! Zombie thread! KILL IT! KILL IT!
*Runs away screaming*
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Back again! I know this is a relatively old post... but correct me if I'm mistaken when I say that the P-38L should outturn planes like a Spit8 intially with those Fowler flaps...
According to the knowledge I've attampted to compiled in my tiny head, Fowler flaps increase wing area when they open, allowing the 'Devil' to outturn the likes of the P-51 -for example- with no prob at all. But according to Dr.Gonzo's charts, the P-51 will outturn the P-38 when both use flaps. I do often outturn 'Stangs in my Lightning, but I'm just assuming they don't use full flap...
or does my use of rudder help me turn immensely? Hmm...
I mean, that whole P-38 vs. Spit14 thing... the P-38 won hands down.
and Sax, good ol' pal, the P-38's uber and absolutely sextacular lol. The Hog is too, so don't take away my soul by insulting Kelly's invension. =P
It really boils down to what the speed range is in the fight. The P-38 is better at high speed manuevering and can out turn a Spitfire above 300mph IAS. It is when the speeds gets down to the medium ranges (250mph IAS to 150mph IAS) that the Spitfire can easily out manuever a P-38 in a turn fight. A good P-38 stick might be able to use vertical manuevers to keep out of a gun solution and try to either get the fight to go fast by diving away for speed or try to burn as much energy from the Spitfire that the speed range dips into the low end (150mph IAS and slower) where the P-38 has a slight edge, especially at stall speeds due to it's gentle stall characteristics and lower stall threshold. But the best way to kill a Spitfire is to keep the fight fast and in the vertical as much as possible.
ack-ack
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Unless you are a 38G driver. Then just get down and dirty with em low and slow. You can out turn most of the Spit drivers out there cause the majority of em do nice flat turns and stall out before the 38G does and have to try and run, in particular th 16 drivers who try and turn with ya. Those clipped wings work against em :)
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Maybe you just lost because the P-38 is a far superior plane to any Hog? :D :p
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PFffft.
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This thread is super old, and 38 is not bugged anymore...
get used to it.;)
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F4U seems to turn better with full flaps out, but once a hog gets full flaps out it burns a LOT of E. If the P38 pilot knows anything about flying, if the flight gets into a situation totally dependent on horizontal turning radius, the f4u will be able to jerk around quicker. BUT the P38 will be able to go vertical much better. The f4u is good in the vertical yes, but when it comes down to the full flap speeds, no torque vs. lots of torque really comes into play. The f4u might be able to pull off a short burst, but will most likely flip over and set itself up to be shot. So f4u better hope it hits the P38 when attempting to follow it vertical.
Spits OTOH... I kind of miss the old days in AH when more people flew spit5s and spit9s. Now (in LW) only spit you encounter is spit16. That is why I like MW more than LW, you see more spit5s, 9s, and 8s. A good spit5 SHOULD out turn a P38 every time, but P38 should be able to win if it uses the P38 correctly (no not bore n' snore tactics).
I disagree yukon... P38 pilot dies too easy:p
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Originally posted by Treize69
Maybe you just lost because the P-38 is a far superior plane to any Hog? :D :p
I would laugh but Im too busy laughing!:rofl :lol
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I would laugh but Im too busy laughing!:rofl :lol
I don't know. I thought the old 38G hung with your Hog pretty well the other night :)
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Toons i think just about everythings been covered to some degree....
My thoughts are as follows....
1st....
fly to kill and fly with a plan....you did neither. The d hog is a match for any plane in the game. It's not the best plane....but it has strengths you can utilize in any one on one fight. Does it mean you have the better plane...NO...but it means you can put up a good fight....
At 7k you had some alt so you have a couple of basic options...I'd hate to give my aly away before I knew what I was dealing with so I'd "invite him on in".
His 1st pass will tell me alot about how he flies. A good 38 driver will fight you from the top with high yoyo's driving you down in a vertical engagement....inviting you to try and get cute....but sriving you to the deck.
Any other fight strays from the 38's stengths IMO....
Against a well flown 38 I'd try and stay high for a pass or two and get him "dialed in" to his reversing hi yoyos....then drag him down. You'd need to get him fast WHILE he's engaged. As his speed picks up you need to convert to a scissors and then a rolling scissors to force him in front. does it always work....nothing does. But you need to have a grasp of your basic options. I know i have a bunch of hog/38 clips but no clue whats what.
This is a P38G vs 109F clip that might illustrate a bit about what i'm saying.
If you break it down you have an initial "engagement" which I bail on once I know where I stand....then even when I'm "running" I know what my plan is....at one pont you'll hear a squaddie ask if I want him to come help....basically I know I can reverse the 38 pretty easily. That doesnt mean i can kill him....but I have a decent idea on what he can and cant do...
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/109clips/109Fvs38G.ahf
Best thing you can do is spend as much time in the TA as possible during your 1st months in the game.
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Originally posted by Toons
not sure exactly what happened, or what i should have done here.
i was flying a f4u-d, and i was getting ready to rtb. had about a quarter tank of fuel.
as i was getting ready to head back to base, a lone p-38 flew ho to me, engaging me. i had about 250 kts. and maybe 7k alt, so i dove for the deck to get speed and extend to disengage. the problem was that i was extending away from base and friendlies, so i pulled up into a loop to reverse direction. sure enough, the p-38 was still back there, about 1000 yards out. as i came over the top, we went head on again, and i continued my loop until i was about 100' feet off the water, heading full blast rtb.
i was giving the plane everything i had, including wep, but after a few seconds i had tracers going by my windshield. i was jinking, but as the tracers kept coming, i wasn't sure if he was closing or losing ground.
i didn't know if i could drag him all the way to friendly territory, so i pulled back into him a third time to engage. as i came over the top, he had angles on me, maybe 600 yds back and shooting. as i went inverted and back nose low, i rolled right 90-110 degrees, and pulled into a left, high yo-yo turn. a few second later, bullets shredded my plane. i bailed, but with no altitude, i couldn't open my chute in time and died.
anyway, any advice in this situation is welcome. i've read the soda's aircraft pages, and i didn't think a p-38 would be able to turn with me, nor climb with me. the bottom line was i should have never let this guy get on my 6...that was poor sa in letting him engage me with me heading towards enemy territory.
i think the guy's name was clnumb or something like that.
thanks,
toons
Landing gear & Fuel Management.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I don't know. I thought the old 38G hung with your Hog pretty well the other night :)
You do realize that we didnt have same E....right? Not taking anything away from your kill and your fight, but you bounced me! I turned your superior E as much as possible but with an E advantage to start, and a good pilot behind the controls of the 38, I'd give it to the 38. I stated earlier that "if" both planes started with the same E, then both planes have advantageous angles to be exploited, so it becomes a chess match! I guess your "queen" pwned my rook that night! hee hee :aok
BTW <> for a good tangle, bro!
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
Landing gear & Fuel Management.
:confused: landing gear????????
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Originally posted by SkyRock
You do realize that we didnt have same E....right? Not taking anything away from your kill and your fight, but you bounced me! I turned your superior E as much as possible but with an E advantage to start, and a good pilot behind the controls of the 38, I'd give it to the 38. I stated earlier that "if" both planes started with the same E, then both planes have advantageous angles to be exploited, so it becomes a chess match! I guess your "queen" pwned my rook that night! hee hee :aok
BTW <> for a good tangle, bro!
It was fun. Surprised i got ya. That makes it Skyrock 145-Corky 1 :)
I remember it differently though. Thought I was slightly below, co-alt at best when we met.
I would agree that good F4U drivers can do wonders with it. I had one night where a guy in a 1A was eating me alive no matter what I did. Can't remember the ID, but he was good. Saxman does really well in that beast too.
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U were co-alt?? lol There wre so many high ones that day I prolly was just seeing every plane "above" me! It was a good dance anyway! HAD a good one with Soulyss right after that but he was not as fortunate as you! It could have been he was in a J and u were in a G......hmm! Which is better G or J?
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Which is better G or J?
Depends who is flying it, just like the J and L. I do OK in the G and J, get my butt handed to me in the L. Its all in what you're used to and which fits your style best.
But the G is an animal once you devote the time to figuring it out.
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Yeah, I've been having a real rough time in the J lately can't seem to do anything without dropping a wing or stalling out. I remember that little fight skyrock, I was yelling at myself because I accidently left CT on and it was screwing me up somthing fierce. Some nice flying on your part though, F4U's been giving me fits lately.
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Originally posted by Soulyss
Yeah, I've been having a real rough time in the J lately can't seem to do anything without dropping a wing or stalling out. I remember that little fight skyrock, I was yelling at myself because I accidently left CT on and it was screwing me up somthing fierce. Some nice flying on your part though, F4U's been giving me fits lately.
Exactly what I saw, when you went up top to roll over on me, the right wing dropped and gave me a broadside shot! Actuallly, in our lil fi9ght I thought I had picked up enuff speed to hang with you and I got lucky, dan (I thought) on the other hand had some E retention, more than I carried into our battle, hence I never could gain to get high enuff for shot! Both were exceptioinally flown on the 80th's part! <> fellas!:aok
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Please do not refer to any 80th pilots as "flying well". We have a hard earned reputation as parts distributors, please do not muddy this up.
Thank You in advance for your consideration
Lt. Shuffler
Parts Distribution Center
80th FS
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Originally posted by Shuffler
Please do not refer to any 80th pilots as "flying well". We have a hard earned reputation as parts distributors, please do not muddy this up.
Thank You in advance for your consideration
Lt. Shuffler
Parts Distribution Center
80th FS
:rofl :aok
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Stop reffering to it as P38 Parts Distrubution!!! Gah you're giving them the wrong impression of us:mad:
No one can tell that those metal shards are they are finding on the ground are parts from a P38. As far as they can tell it's just aluminum dropped out of a bomber to mess up radars.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It really boils down to what the speed range is in the fight.
ack-ack
Ah, yes.. the speed. Well, I've taken note in that during my flights in the Corsair, but seriously - maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, but where is that uber turning of the P-38? The plane just seems to turn as if it' flaps just weren't Fowler...
True, I will outturn planes above 300 IAS, but that seems to kill all those WWII stories of pilots flying around, shooting down Japanese planes with just a few notches dropped.
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Ah, yes.. the speed. Well, I've taken note in that during my flights in the Corsair, but seriously - maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, but where is that uber turning of the P-38? The plane just seems to turn as if it' flaps just weren't Fowler...
True, I will outturn planes above 300 IAS, but that seems to kill all those WWII stories of pilots flying around, shooting down Japanese planes with just a few notches dropped.
The guys in the Pacific were not turn fighting Zekes. They used their speed and climb to B n Z em to death. There were a few like McGuire who bent their 38s to turn, but it was not the tactics taught by 5th FC to their 38 drivers to live long, fight and survive.
Pick up a copy of "12 to 1", that is a reprint of the 5th AF fighter pilots 'bible'. It's all hit and run, preached in it.
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Hmm, I'll be sure to look it up. Yet I have another quesion for you pros (sorry if I'm bothering you... I just have no info in this skull, no matter how hard i look): My P-38 seems to get outran and outturned by so many planes. How do you all survive such battles in Co-alt, co-E?
I am able to rolling scissor a noob or two, but the other guys who have equal skill compared to me when I was flying my Spit or Hog seem to catch me evertime when I'm upping a 38.
Some people say that I should master the other USAAF planes (P-51, P-47, P... etc.) before flying this beast. But if not, which 38 would you recommend as a first plane? (as a 38 fan, I fear the G sometimes 'cuz I sometimes get the thought that those engines will suddenly malfunction on me!)
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The 38s have a sweet spot you have to learn to fly in.
If your trying to stay fast, 350+, then you fly it like a p47, or p51. Smooth climbing turns conserving "E", making the enemy burn"E" with each run you do on him.
Slow speeds, under 200 you run the flaps in and out as much as posible. Roll them out as you slow and turn, or roll over on a loop, bringing them back in as fast as you can to get your speed back up, and rebuild your "E".
In the middle ground, 200-350, you use it both ways. Keep your turns and such smooth, but go ahead and drop a notch of two of flaps to get that bit more on the turns, or loops. At the middle speeds, side slipping and chopping throttle works great, and the acceleration can get you back up to speed pretty quick.
Its all a matter of "feel", and like all other fighters, knowing the enemies "E" state is what can save the day.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
The 38s have a sweet spot you have to learn to fly in.
If your trying to stay fast, 350+, then you fly it like a p47, or p51. Smooth climbing turns conserving "E", making the enemy burn"E" with each run you do on him.
Slow speeds, under 200 you run the flaps in and out as much as posible. Roll them out as you slow and turn, or roll over on a loop, bringing them back in as fast as you can to get your speed back up, and rebuild your "E".
In the middle ground, 200-350, you use it both ways. Keep your turns and such smooth, but go ahead and drop a notch of two of flaps to get that bit more on the turns, or loops. At the middle speeds, side slipping and chopping throttle works great, and the acceleration can get you back up to speed pretty quick.
Its all a matter of "feel", and like all other fighters, knowing the enemies "E" state is what can save the day.
What he said!:aok