Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on April 05, 2006, 02:58:02 PM
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If you have not seen this movie about the last days of Hitler and those around him. Rent it or buy it.
Very good movie. Very disturbing movie.
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Hiya, Mr. NN - I have it on order. I have seen it, but I want to keep it.
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Bruno Ganz :aok
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I just watched it on tv. Forgot what chanel it was on. I thought it wasa great movie. :aok
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I DL'd it. Then bought - up there with Band of Brothers in acting.
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You talking about Der Untergang?
Yup I saw this with my wife and mother in law. They are both from Germany and liked watching a movie in their home language. My wife was never taught Higher German and still understood it.
All together it was a great movie. Total INSANITY on the German side.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
You talking about Der Untergang?
Yup I saw this with my wife and mother in law. They are both from Germany and liked watching a movie in their home language. My wife was never taught Higher German and still understood it.
All together it was a great movie. Total INSANITY on the German side.
INSANITY mixed with devotion on a extreme scale. And then some more insanity.
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I could have lived quite happily, having never seen the scene with Frau Goebbels and her kids. :(
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I could have lived quite happily, having never seen the scene with Frau Goebbels and her kids. :(
Very True but from what I gather the movie is quite accurate. Like I said pure INSAINITY!
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The guy who played Hitler did a fantastic job...Academy Award winning performance IMHO.
Great film. I really liked that they showed what it was like outside the bunker as well.
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Originally posted by Curval
The guy who played Hitler did a fantastic job...Academy Award winning performance IMHO.
Great film. I really liked that they showed what it was like outside the bunker as well.
I agree completly. Although "Hitler" would not get an award. It wouldnt be PC.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I could have lived quite happily, having never seen the scene with Frau Goebbels and her kids. :(
I agree - one glass vial each and... crunch - is that the scene? I already knew that it had happened something like that from historical accounts, but didn't think it was going to be in the movie in such detail.
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I watched this prior to reading Beevor's book 'The Fall of Berlin'. It follows the book exactly - the dramatization of the scene where the German general is called to the bunker to be shot, before finding out he has been promoted, really stuck in my head. Beevor's description is very similar.
The guy playing Hitler is brilliant. I loved the bit when he finds out Himmler has betrayed him. "Nicht Himmler, Die Trauest of the die traue!!!!!?" Or something like that. I thought, yes you salamander. Finally you see you were in league with a set of prize back-stabbers.
I liked how Hitler's secretary finally has her eyes opened after being closeted in the bunker, protected from the suffering and death above ground. Quite poignant.
And yes, insanity is the word.
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I loaned the movie out to my boss, then I have like three friends who want to borrow it.
Be fun to talk about it after they watch it. I have to say it ranks as one of the best war movies I have seen, right with Band of brothers and Blackhawk down.
But it is the best anti war movie I have ever seen. It really brought home the price the germans paid for going to war.
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Is it in english or will I just listen to it like I listen to Rammstein? I guess i'll have to watch since you guys make it sound so good.
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the whole movie is german and you watch it with sub titles. They do have english subtitles.
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They don't have english subtitles and you watch it in German? How did you guys know what they were saying?
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It's an excellent film IMO, but not one I'd care to watch very often if ever again. It depressed me, but I like to think that makes me a sane and rational man considering the subject matter.
Incredible performance by Bruno Ganz, and the actors portraying Goebbles and Himmler looked menacingly like their real-life counterparts did.
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That was a typo, lol, it does have english sub titles.
Sorry about that.
Whats funny is when Hitler rants and raves you can tell whats its about without reading.
Hitler was not always that nutty right? Like outwardly nutty?
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Originally posted by VOR
It's an excellent film IMO, but not one I'd care to watch very often if ever again. It depressed me, but I like to think that makes me a sane and rational man considering the subject matter.
Incredible performance by Bruno Ganz, and the actors portraying Goebbles and Himmler looked menacingly like their real-life counterparts did.
The actor that played goebbles kinda weirded me out. What a freaky guy, I wonder if, goebbles was like that as well..... creepy little ****er. Why did he have a uniform like no one elses?
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Yeah me too GTO. He was the poster child for fanaticism and just had a serial murderer look overall.
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Because he was so very, very special.
He didn't even have the guts to kill his own children... he made his wife do it.
Fundamentally, the Nazis were cowards.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Because he was so very, very special.
He didn't even have the guts to kill his own children... he made his wife do it.
Fundamentally, the Nazis were cowards.
Yeah, I think the movie portrayed him as the worst of a bad pack of weirdos.
There was a movie a guy played the devil in, and he looked just like Goebbles, in this movie, I wonder if it was the same actor.
Both him and his wife were by far the creepiest chars in the movie, the scene she murders her children was disturbing, but I am glad it made it in. As was the scene she begs at hitlers feet.
Hard to imagine having to deal with that as a German General, watching your country be destroyed with a mad man driving it on. Was the younger SS guy that burned the bodies just a staff guy? I noticed he was not exacuted. What was his story if any?
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Goebbles eyes freaked me out. :noid
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Hard to imagine having to deal with that as a German General, watching your country be destroyed with a mad man driving it on.
Well they had enjoyed years of increased status and power through Hitler's remilitarization. When people like Manstein were signing orders that took away any rights Soviet citizens had and introduced automatic absolution of all crimes perpetrated by German soldiers (including rape, murder and theft), he effectively knitted Nazism and the military together.
The German high command gave up it's influence as a distinct political entity. In my opinion, they betrayed the German people at that juncture - almost as much as the hardcore Nazis themselves.
Ultimately, the German military (the SS aside) has to shoulder some of the responsibility for what happened. They allowed it to happen and actively participated in some cases. Atrocity was a casual affair on the Eastern front, as I'm sure you know.
Was the younger SS guy that burned the bodies just a staff guy?
I think he classed as an aide-de-campe, and was therefore not a target for execution for war crimes. Jodl and Keitel, however actively participated in the whole running of the war and the treatment of occupied peoples etc. I think that's how it went.
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I agree with you Dowding, I was not trying to say they were inoccent in any way. I am sure you know more on the subject then I do, I have not read much about the Nazi germany and its politics much.
I can give the common German soldier lots of leeway as long as he acted like soldier should. Even some of the SS guys who fought as soldiers (not the ones cooking jews). But not the officers in the high command. They should have offed hitler earlier.
I felt sorry for some of the people in the movie at times. It made me feel bad thinking about it because most are such repugnant piles of dung... but it shows how good the movie was that you are feeling something for them at all.
It did get me thinking, wondering how such sick ****ers could get where they got there. That sick ****s like that can get to where they did should be a lesson we all look at. We are not that far from them. People have not evolved since the 1930 and 40s people like them are still around and not just in third world countries.
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Also rent "Blind Spot". It's a documentary with Hitler's secretary. She passed away not too long after the interviews were made.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/blind_spot_hitlers_secretary/ (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/blind_spot_hitlers_secretary/)
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Subtitles works for me, sounds like a good movie. Think i meant to rent it awhile ago but forgot the name.
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I know this may be an unpopular post but Der Untergang is no more real then The Last Ten Days. Some may assume that any criticism is nitpicking but this is just a movie like all others.
I won't get into to much in depth and point out all the inaccuracies of the film except to say a few things:
First, Rochus Misch was there, he knew all the 'characters' and has given interviews both before, during and after the production of Der Untergang.
Here's two interviews:
Hitler's bodyguard (http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2005/02/21/nazi/index_np.html?pn=1)
and an interview German newspaper (text in German):
Die letzten Zeugen (http://www.wams.de/data/2005/04/17/705806.html?prx=1)
Misch is critical of the film and of how some of the characters are portrayed, including Hitler.
I just want point this out for those of you who may think this movie accurately captured reality. In may offer some insight but it's not a complete picture.
For example Dowding commented on the death of the Goebbels children:
He didn't even have the guts to kill his own children... he made his wife do it.
The reality is that Frau Goebbels was a true die hard Nazi. The children she had were a gift to the NSDAP state. She would have killed them with or with out Joseph. The impression I got was that Joseph wasn't so much a coward (he was) as that he was going along with Magda's decision no matter how painful.
fyi in Voices from the Bunker Traudl Junge tells of the Goebbels children arriving at the bunker:
The Goebbels family had just arrived and I went to welcome them. I became responsible for the five little girls and one little boy... We knew that their parents, Magda and Joseph Goebbels, had decided to end the children's lives along with their own. Obviously they hadn't the least idea of what was going to happen and I did all I could not to show them how unhappy I was. The children confided to one of the orderlies that they were all going to have an injection so they didn't get sick.
Other scenes are highly dramatized even contradictory to facts. The scene where Speer informs Hitler that he had been defying his order to destroy what was left of the German infrastructure for example. From reading Speer’s own account, Hitler listened to this admission passively and with indifference. Speer tells of Hitler nodding his head as if he (Hitler) had guessed as much and Speer hints that Hitler may have actually been relieved. In the movie Hitler gets pissed and breaks a pencil.
I can go on but I think you all get the point
It's a fine movie but I am not sure how much is gained from it in terms of an accurate representation of what went on in the Bunker...
Its hard to say 'its just a movie' because of the content but in the end that's basically what it was. However, I highly recommend it...
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I wasn't accusing you of anything, GtoRA2. :)
You're right about being not far from them. It seems it doesn't take much for people to start abusing their power and authority. Like you say, you don't have to look that far to find it.
Bruno - The film is an excellent insight into the mindset of that particular group of monsters. It does use dramatic license - but there is also alot of historical fact in there that I've come across elsewhere.
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Originally posted by NattyIced
They don't have english subtitles and you watch it in German? How did you guys know what they were saying?
apparently some of us can speak and understand German.
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Any movie is going to have artistic license, this one is no exception. But what it does very well, and has been stated before, is get the viewer into the mindset of the people in the bunker at the time. I've seen the movie twice now and come away with new insight after every viewing. Truely a great movie no matter how you look at it, historically accuracy or not.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Goebbles eyes freaked me out. :noid
totally. :O ESPECIALLY watching the fire.
i have to say, WOW what a powerful movie. usualyl i take a pass on some of the movies suggested here, partly because of das boot. call me weird, or whatever i didn't like it a ton. nothing special would be the way to put it.
now downfall...
that has got to be up there as one of the most graphic war depictions. though many of the shots of the carnage were breif, and fast, they were there none the less.
the scene with the boy and the blown off face of the girl
that isn't the reason i liked it though, the humanization of the people i think is what did it. showing the true insainity, and mis-guided thought processes, and the actual inner conflicts by them were amazing. the dude with the gernades.... the second he was going to stay you knew what was going to happen, but still he seemed conflicted with it.
eva braun was as psycho as that other chick IMHO. i never knew she was like that. i guess i imagined someone more like Traudl Junge, someone swept up into it, and not seeing or knowing the whole truth.
this is a definate must-own for WWII buffs.
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Fantastic film and a true insight of what went on!
I thought the interview with Traudl Junge was interesting too. She used to think that because she was young it was an excuse but whilst walking down Franz Joseph Straße in Munich she came across the monument for Sophie Scholl. She realised then that Sophie was the same age and yet she knew how evil the Nazi's were. Sophie Scholl was executed for trying to highlight the evils of the Nazi's. She was a university student.
I haven't seen Sophie Scholl yet but that's another film to look out for (was Oscar nominee 2006).
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Anyone seen this one & The Last Ten Days & Der Letzte Akt?
Which one is teh best?
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I found it quite interesting how every german soldier in that bunker had a mp44.
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Originally posted by Replicant
Fantastic film and a true insight of what went on!
I thought the interview with Traudl Junge was interesting too. She used to think that because she was young it was an excuse but whilst walking down Franz Joseph Straße in Munich she came across the monument for Sophie Scholl. She realised then that Sophie was the same age and yet she knew how evil the Nazi's were. Sophie Scholl was executed for trying to highlight the evils of the Nazi's. She was a university student.
I haven't seen Sophie Scholl yet but that's another film to look out for (was Oscar nominee 2006).
How Traudl Junge is portrayed in her own book or in others is inconsistent with how show was portrayed in the film. 'Most of the 'insight' gained from the film is inconsistent with what has been written by those who were there, like Junge, Misch, Speer etc...
Whatever 'insight' was revealed in the film was created by the writing, direction and acting. There were significant historical inaccuracies, not just 'artistic license' that affect how one views the film.
It was excellent film. However, as I said imho it provides no more insight into reality then any any other war film. It's just a movie...
Debonair,
Der Letzte Akt (1955) was excellent as well. The re-make The Last Ten Days (1972) staring Alec Guinness as Hitler, is not quite as well done as either Der Letzte Akt (The Last Act) or Der Untergang. However, I like Alec Guinness as an actor so I would suggest that if you haven't seen it then it's worth watching just for his performance.
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I was referring to the actual interview with the real Traudl before she died.
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Hi Yeager
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oui :D
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I can't find Der Letzte Akt anywhere, but i liked The Last 10 Days, haven't seen Downfall.
Rave reviews also go out to hilter on ice, gay hitler, gay chinese hitler & boosh = hitler
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I've still not seen this film, but waiting to get it.
Something of curiousity, from Bruno:
"There were significant historical inaccuracies, not just 'artistic license' that affect how one views the film."
What are those?
Anyway, as a sidenote, another great one IMHO is "Conspiracy", about the Wansee meeting. Not much viewed but a very interesting thing to see.
(Not a Hijack attempt...just a sidenote)
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Is this movie on par with "The Grey Zone"?