Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Saintaw on April 07, 2006, 02:21:17 AM
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(without changing to a hispanic name...)
jesus walks on water (http://www.newsday.com/news/science/wire/sns-ap-jesus-ice-theory,0,721361.story?coll=sns-ap-science-headlines)
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Nof said a patch of ice floating in the Sea of Galilee -- which is actually a freshwater lake -- would have been difficult to distinguish from unfrozen water surrounding it.
That he didn't fall on his bellybutton is still a miracle.
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lets see the scientist surf on a block of ice floating in a lake
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when he comes back, its for the snowboarding roflmao
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Been there, done that. My whole family walked on water like that just a few days ago. :D
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why do people concern themselves disproving the earthly miracles of a diety they deny exists? why are the insecure secularists forever attempting to dispell what they consider mythology? you people that will spend eternity in agony sure are a fickle lot.
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Rofl Storch, you people who spend their lives in fear of eternal agony get the worse deal, trust me. :lol
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I have no fear of eternal agony
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Originally posted by Saintaw
(without changing to a hispanic name...)
jesus walks on water (http://www.newsday.com/news/science/wire/sns-ap-jesus-ice-theory,0,721361.story?coll=sns-ap-science-headlines)
I've less trouble imagining you walking on beer
That would be undrinkable beer :(
HOLALA ZE Tragedie !
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i have water skied, does that count?
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Storch if you believe in one then by definition your life is governed by that fear.
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ripley you couldn't be further away from reality, quite the opposite, it is true freedom.
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Uh.. Storch.. freedom to have your values outlined to you by fear of unknown?
How does that make you free? By freeing you from your own judgement? Of course it's much easyer to follow the herd and do what the book tells you to do. You don't have to think for yourself. :aok
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Uh.. Storch.. freedom to have your values outlined to you by fear of unknown?
That is so totaly ironic that it is hilarious. :)
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And by that you mean?
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it's not an unknown to me it is a transition just as being conceived was. "we" will continue to be just not in the same space suit. you will need something along the lines of asbestos underware though.
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Originally posted by storch
it's not an unknown to me it is a transition just as being conceived was. "we" will continue to be just not in the same space suit. you will need something along the lines of asbestos underware though.
And you accept this "truth" on faith alone. Your parents, teachers and clerics have indoctrinated you to belive these things as a child. It works very well, and you don't need a God to do it either as the Nazis proved.
You're damaged goods, but at least one day you'll face death with a smile, like so many Muslims do these days.
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Originally posted by Schwein
And you accept this "truth" on faith alone. Your parents, teachers and clerics have indoctrinated you to belive these things as a child. It works very well, and you don't need a God to do it either as the Nazis proved.
You're damaged goods, but at least one day you'll face death with a smile, like so many Muslims do these days.
man you sure do know a lot about me. impressive. where did you come by all this information?
here's a challenge for you. find a bible. go to the last book, the book of revelations. in revelations go to the 11th chapter and read about the two witnesses. tell me what is being described in verses 7-10.
My parents would agree with you. I don't go to church now and didn't as a child. my parents are basically agnostic. I have come across my faith through life experiences not from any formal education or traditional family upbringing. God's wonders are plainly evident to me and I'm amazed that they aren't to everyone.
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So you just "found" Judaism? Sorry, I don't believe you. If you were some born-again Christian perhaps, but not a Jew. Plenty of people find God though. If you need to believe in someting you'll allways find something if you look hard enough.
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who said I was jewish? I believe in lots of things, in this case I believe you're wrong. I also believe you may need asbestos underware.
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"we" will continue to be just not in the same space suit. you will need something along the lines of asbestos underware though.
What makes you so confident that your belief is the right one? There are literally millions of religions and different Gods known to man. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by storch
who said I was jewish? I believe in lots of things, in this case I believe you're wrong. I also believe you may need asbestos underware.
I might be mistaking you for someone else. In any case the difference between your viewpoint and mine is that you believe I'm wrong, while I don't know if you're right or wrong. The part that I disagree with is that you believe (in what ever religion) based on faith alone, and continue to moralize (I should say preach) to others based on your faith alone. Like saying people need asbestos underwear because they’re going to burn in Hell. Perhaps you didn’t realize that many would find that somewhat offensive, but they do.
I don’t want to start a flame war with you. I respect religious people and their private believes. However I do not like people who insist on not keeping their religion private, like you.
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Originally posted by storch
who said I was jewish? I believe in lots of things, in this case I believe you're wrong. I also believe you may need asbestos underware.
Feel the love.
Why are people so quick to point out that the Others will burn in Hell? The remark, when not made in a crude, offensive way, is made in a smug tone. Nyah nyah nyah.
Then again, being chosen by God would do that to people, no?
Methinks (personal opinion) that anyone who is the least bit smug about the eternal suffering of other humans is unlikely to be welcomed by benign, omniscient, omnipotent forces.
Your mileage may vary.
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the thing is that while that is my opinion it is also based in fact. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Go ahead and be angry with me but take it up with him when you next see him, at the very instant of your transition from this reality into the next. don't forget your asbestos underware.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
What makes you so confident that your belief is the right one? There are literally millions of religions and different Gods known to man. :rolleyes:
Jesus said "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
be angry with me but take it up with him next time you see him.
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Originally posted by Schwein
I might be mistaking you for someone else. In any case the difference between your viewpoint and mine is that you believe I'm wrong, while I don't know if you're right or wrong. The part that I disagree with is that you believe (in what ever religion) based on faith alone, and continue to moralize (I should say preach) to others based on your faith alone. Like saying people need asbestos underwear because they’re going to burn in Hell. Perhaps you didn’t realize that many would find that somewhat offensive, but they do.
I don’t want to start a flame war with you. I respect religious people and their private believes. However I do not like people who insist on not keeping their religion private, like you.
Dude I don't believe your are wrong I'm 100% convinced you are. Furthermore against specific commands I'm not attempting to prosthelytize anyone here or anywhere else. I'm merely pointing out my conviction and further stating that I'm completely correct. why would that offend you or anyone else? I'm as convinced I'm 100% correct as I'm 100% convinced that the law of gravity on earth applies 100% of time. and finally I'm far from religious. very very far. and lastly no one has answered my original question which is (question) why are secularists concerned with a figure that they have deemed to be a lunatic liar and the originator of hoaxes that have blown out of all resonable proportions? it's somewhat rephrased but along the same lines. You don't see me or other believers of the way concerned with what siddartha gautama said and the same thing generally applies to mohammad. I just don't care. why would others care what Christians believe and why are they always attempting to disprove the one true God?
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Originally posted by storch
....and finally I'm far from religious. very very far.
Muhahahahahahhhh. C'mon, don't deny your god, he doesn't like it.
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Originally posted by deSelys
Muhahahahahahhhh. C'mon, don't deny your god, he doesn't like it.
well if you consider my expression of belief to be religion then I plead guilty as charged. however if by religious you mean that I adhere to the teachings then the answer is, if I were charged with "christianity" and some undercover officers were assigned to follow me around town in order to aquire evidence with which to bring me up on charges of being Christian they would come up empty handed and frustrated. at least at this point in my life. I am somewhat of an embarrassment as a Christian but I'm not as bad as I was I was 30 years ago when I came to believe. I'm a work in progress, it's just that my progress has been real slow. as a Christian I'm a bit of a contradiction. But God loves me and the good news is that he loves you as well. but I sure don't. see what I mean?
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storch , you talk about "one true god", then you worship jesus, and yes i know all about the trinity, you know the old testament warns against worshiping false/multiple gods.
and when Christians pray to the saints, is that not worshiping false gods?
by the way, god told me there is no hell, it was invented by man to keep people in line, just live your life and try not to hurt each other.
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where did I say I worshipped saints? when have I mentioned saints at all? I hate football. pfft.
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:D , it was not directed entirely to you.
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Originally posted by storch
I believe in lots of things, in this case I believe you're wrong.
Originally posted by storch
Dude I don't believe your are wrong I'm 100% convinced you are.
Originally posted by storch
I'm merely pointing out my conviction and further stating that I'm completely correct.
"Dude" I believe you're a 100% lunatic.
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Storch, I'm curious how you know Jesus even said those things?
Go to Borders, pick up Annals of Imperial Rome by Tacitus. Not the Penguin translation, but the other widely published one (bluish cover, don't have it with me atm). Read the translator's note.
Doing this from memory, so I can't be exact, but the translator talked about how prior translations are pretty much garbage. His reasoning was this: In the first chapter of the original Latin text, there are around 100 words. An 18th century British historian needed 300+ English ones. The translator even acknowledged that his own version wasn't perfect, as it had about 150ish.
The same exact thing has happened to the Bible, but even worse. Instead of just going from Latin to English, you'd be going from Ancient Hebrew to maybe Coptic to ancient Greek (vice versa? not sure not my strong suit) to Latin to [insert modern language here].
And to make matters even more complicated it's not always just a case of mistranslation. There are people out there who can read ancient Greek, have read surviving texts of the Bible in ancient Greek, and they will tell you, some of the passages (some very famous - and attributed to Jesus) that are in our modern Bible simply didn't exist whatsoever in the earlier ones. How they got there, well, use your imagination. I believe it may have had something to do with agenda.
I respect your faith and share it to some extent, and I wouldn't say that the Bible isn't necessarily the Word of God. I am saying, however, that the Bible we have in our own homes sure as hell isn't.
Just something to think about.
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K, Storch, fair enough. If by believing, you feel and act better than before, good for you.
The 'you-will-burn-in-hell' threat only causes laughter with me, though.roger that?
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Jesus said "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Heh heh.. And how does that differ from the beliefs of any other faction on this planet? Each one believes in THEIR cause with the same exact strenght that you do. They laugh at you for being a fool and not seeing THEIR god is the one. :D
For all you know, the true God may have 10 hands, nude, painted and condemn you to an eternal Michael Jackson concert.
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Religion will be the downfall of man. Of this I am 100% certain.
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You guys are forgetting how FUN it is to just sit back and smugly say "I'm one of the saved but you guys are going to hell hahahahaha!"
Storch keeps writing it, so it's obvious he feels it too.
Face it, you non-believers and wrong-believers are going to burn in hell, period.
See? Isn't that fun?
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Originally posted by storch
Jesus said "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
be angry with me but take it up with him next time you see him.
Nowadays theologists consider this as a semi-overt tribute to anal intercourse.
Feel free to take it up with him... (verbally of course)
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in every document ever discovered there is a minuscule variation with what we have in the KJV and these anomalies amount to semantics. the bible is the inerrant word of God, it has come down to us supernaturally to serve as a guide. we will be here for a short season then we will continue or eternal journey. you have a test before you. you are failing it and in doing so you are fulfilling biblical prophesy.
Basic
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth
anybody look up revelations 11 yet or have they stopped printing bibles in progressive and wise old europe?
why are you guys so fearful of an idea? why are you guys on a path of disproving what you consider mythology? why must you convince yourself that people of the one and only true way are wrong?
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Originally posted by Thud
Nowadays theologists consider this as a semi-overt tribute to anal intercourse.
Feel free to take it up with him... (verbally of course)
heh, coming (no pun intended) for a dutch theologist perhaps. adds a whole new dimension to "going dutch" doesn't it?
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Heh heh.. And how does that differ from the beliefs of any other faction on this planet? Each one believes in THEIR cause with the same exact strenght that you do. They laugh at you for being a fool and not seeing THEIR god is the one. :D
For all you know, the true God may have 10 hands, nude, painted and condemn you to an eternal Michael Jackson concert.
we already know that the one true God has made us in his likeness. ponder for a bit, does God have a pasty and smooth physique and hang out in a sauna getting plastered with his pals?
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You mean you think you know. Just as the believers in any other religion. They're absolutely convinced their belief is the correct one.
So what makes you so different of the others who apparently seem to be wrong? :D
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
You mean you think you know. Just as the believers in any other religion. They're absolutely convinced their belief is the correct one.
So what makes you so different of the others who apparently seem to be wrong? :D
no, I know. The bible is completely inerrant it is completely reliable and I am complete sure that I am 100% correct. I'm quite certain of the result we will all harvest.
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Damn storch, you've hooked a full stringer. Nice technique with a classic, if not very shiny, lure. Well done :aok
I'm sad I didn't even get a nibble :cry
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Originally posted by eagl
Damn storch, you've hooked a full stringer. Nice technique with a classic, if not very shiny, lure. Well done :aok
I'm sad I didn't even get a nibble :cry
thank you however for once I'm not trolling. this is what I know to be true and I'm amazed that everyone doesn't see it. I mean it's plainly laid out for all to see, simply and succinctly.
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The Bible is not such a bad history book.
Does not the Bible say that all will be forgiven? So how, if all is forgiven, can one go to Hell?
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
The Bible is not such a bad history book.
Does not the Bible say that all will be forgiven? So how, if all is forgiven, can one go to Hell?
please show me where in the bible it says that forgiveness is unconditional. I may have missed that part in my extensive studies and I'm always willing to learn something new. IIRC correctly Jesus is very clear on what one thing is required for salvation eg. forgiveness.
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Not gonna bite storch :)
If you're serious, you're a loon just like the islamist extremists. You don't LOOK crazy, so you've gotta be trolling.
Besides, you're wrong. From your own statements, it's clear that you're the one going to hell when you die. Your statements, if you were serious which you can't possibly be, show that you would be very clearly guilty of false idolatry and self-worship. Only someone who worships their own feeling of moral superiority would make the claims and statements that you have made in this thread. This is a fact, and if you continue your self-worship you will burn for all eternity. You dare to judge others, dare to condemn souls to hell, and dare to claim a place in heaven, yet these things are of the Lord ONLY and to claim them as your own is to put yourself above the Lord. That voice telling you that you are saved and others are damned is the voice of the snake, the deceiver, for your words on the truth and the light are not the words of the Lord. You've strayed far from the book you hold as Truth.
Dude, if you believe the nonsense you've been posting, you're going to hell. Really.
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well now analyze what I've said.
1. I'm a very poor example of a Christian
2. I've quoted Jesus
3. I've clearly admitted that I'm morally deficient.
the only thing I've said is that I'm 100% correct. that seems to offend some. but that's fine jesus said that it would. some day in the not so distant future it may be cause for arrest to think the way I do. It has been in the past and is true currently in most mohammadan countries. Jesus stated that this was going to happen so no surprise there.
and finally, there is no way I'm going to hell, I have an all access pass to hang around with God as soon as I transition.
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was Lott's wife turned into kosher salt or regular table salt?
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Originally posted by storch
well now analyze what I've said.
1. I'm a very poor example of a Christian
2. I've quoted Jesus
3. I've clearly admitted that I'm morally deficient.
the only thing I've said is that I'm 100% correct. that seems to offend some. but that's fine jesus said that it would. some day in the not so distant future it may be cause for arrest to think the way I do. It has been in the past and is true currently in most mohammadan countries. Jesus stated that this was going to happen so no surprise there.
and finally, there is no way I'm going to hell, I have an all access pass to hang around with God as soon as I transition.
Hey good for you storch. These guys can bash you all you want for your beleifs but that's about ALL they can do. Most men don't realize it's not about religion its about faith. religion is an IDEA created by MAN to become/feel closer to god. Where as with faith its that god created jesus to become closer to man. The only perfect person to live should die for everyone elses wrong doings.
While I don't hate any of you for your disbeleif and I might be sharing that firepit with you some day I don't think its right to compare a simple person who has faith in christ to an islamic extremest. There's nothing extreme about most christians and 98% would never become mass murders for their faith whil bastardizing the language and calling it martyrdom.
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Guns,
Remember that because I have faith, I am also 100% correct. And according to the logic that makes Storch's faith also 100%, those islamist extremists are also 100% correct, because as you say, it's a matter of faith, not religion. You're letting your worldly facts about who should be killing who get in the way of your accepting someone's faith.
So one faith is ok, another is not, merely because of the trappings and traditions surrounding the religion?
Ok, I'll get to my real thoughts here now that you've made my point for me...
You're in the position of legitimizing personal truths based on faith alone, while defending one faith and decrying another. That's the whole reason I bothered to post in this thread... To point out that while each faith may be true to the individual, that's where the truth ends. That's why storch proclaiming not that the personal truth of his faith means others are going to hell is JUST AS INVALID as the islamist view that the personal truth of their faith means everyone else ought to be killed.
You can't have it both ways... I THINK (not believe... THINK) that proclamations like the ones storch makes throughout this thread are 100% invalid because he is trying to apply his faith to others, and his attempts at placing others under the judgement of his faith-based personal truths are signs of the same sort of delusion the islamists are under. The only difference is that the islamists are violent, and storch (to my knowledge) is not.
Yes the lack of violence is a pretty big difference, but the underlying bigotry and deluded self-worship are the same.
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Originally posted by eagl
Guns,
Remember that because I have faith, I am also 100% correct. And according to the logic that makes Storch's faith also 100%, those islamist extremists are also 100% correct, because as you say, it's a matter of faith, not religion. You're letting your worldly facts about who should be killing who get in the way of your accepting someone's faith.
So one faith is ok, another is not, merely because of the trappings and traditions surrounding the religion?
Ok, I'll get to my real thoughts here now that you've made my point for me...
You're in the position of legitimizing personal truths based on faith alone, while defending one faith and decrying another. That's the whole reason I bothered to post in this thread... To point out that while each faith may be true to the individual, that's where the truth ends. That's why storch proclaiming not that the personal truth of his faith means others are going to hell is JUST AS INVALID as the islamist view that the personal truth of their faith means everyone else ought to be killed.
You can't have it both ways... I THINK (not believe... THINK) that proclamations like the ones storch makes throughout this thread are 100% invalid because he is trying to apply his faith to others, and his attempts at placing others under the judgement of his faith-based personal truths are signs of the same sort of delusion the islamists are under. The only difference is that the islamists are violent, and storch (to my knowledge) is not.
Yes the lack of violence is a pretty big difference, but the underlying bigotry and deluded self-worship are the same.
SIR,
point out to me where I said anything bad about anyone else's faith or where it is wrong. I only pointed out that a christian, because of their faith (be it strong or weak), is nothing close to comparable to an islamic extremest. I'm not saying that islam is wrong, i'm saying MASS-MURDER is.....by an legal, moral, or religious standard.
I also aplauded storch for standing by his convictions against the ridicule of others. I don't agree with him telling people point blank they are going to hell (that's negative reinforcment), and I would definatly preferr that ANYONE point out the good that the majority of christians do for others and their community vrs pointing out the bad in others.
Some can ramble on about how religion is bad....bla bla bla....christian conservatives....blah blah blah. When we all know that that most of the bad stuff prople bring up in this bbs about christians do not represent a valid cross section of the demographic.
Flame away, I don't give a dam but try not to put words in my mouth because you have a preconceived notion of what you think I am/represent. That would be an ASSumption
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Guns, simmer down a bit.
Storch wasn't standing up for himself. He was damning everyone else to hell. Look at his first few posts.
The bigotry and self-worship displayed by someone who, in public, proclaims his own sanctity and damns others is the same evil that leads islamists to proclaim their own brand of hatred.
Supporting one flavor of religious bigot while decrying another smacks of hypocracy, regardless of whether they're Christian, Muslim, or merely some whacko cult. You're saying that it's ok for storch to defend himself by claiming that he has the universal truth and others are damned to hell, and that it's somehow different when he says it from when other religions say it. I'm saying that they're both wrong, and the fact that most Christians in this century don't go around crusading doesn't change the fact that they're both deluded when they try to APPLY their FAITH to others who do not share in their faith.
Keep in mind that in MANY cultures and religions, what Storch said, damning others to hell, is a worse assault than if he'd punched them in the face. He applied his religion to others, and I'm calling him on it, plain and simple. You brought yourself into this by defending him.
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Eagl is my new hero.
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Originally posted by storch
in every document ever discovered there is a minuscule variation with what we have in the KJV and these anomalies amount to semantics. the bible is the inerrant word of God, it has come down to us supernaturally to serve as a guide. we will be here for a short season then we will continue or eternal journey. you have a test before you. you are failing it and in doing so you are fulfilling biblical prophesy.
Storch, they aren't always just miniscule variations. Some are outright later additions. In other words, they didn't exist when the documents were first written. To put it plainly, your KJV includes many passages that never happened - that some earthly author with an agenda threw in there at a later date.
What's more, when there is a miniscule variation (say, a word), there's often a pretty big consequence in meaning. I don't have examples with me, though, so take it or leave it.
Also, in your studies, did you ever find out just how exactly the New Testament came to be? Ever hear of the two councils at Carthage? Where bishops debated, picked and choosed which texts would be regarded as sacred? As everyone should know by now, given the events of the past few years, church officials are far from infallible. So how can we say they chose correctly?
I'm sorry to say this, I don't want to pick on those with faith (it's a good thing), but if you're going to take the Bible for word for word fact, you're sticking your head in the sand. If you take the Bible as a rough guide, you might be on to something.
If taking the Bible, cross referencing with history and science, leading me to believe that some events probably happened but definately not word for word as proclaimed makes me a prime candidate to burn in hell, I guess I'm guilty as charged. Personally, I think God will forgive my curiousity. Why would he give me it, if he didn't want me to use it?
Heck, I believe in God and that he created this whole place. I don't believe he did it in seven 24 hour periods. I do believe he added on to this old house via Evolution.
I believe a great regional flood happened, hell, maybe truly because the people in the region needed a lesson. But I sure don't believe it completely covered the earth, at least not since humans have been around.
I believe Jesus was a great man, who sincerely wanted to help the rest of us, and who died an agonizing death for his efforts. I admire and respect him, and try to remember the core values behind his teachings. But I'm not sure that he was the Son of God anymore then the rest of us.
Finally, I believe that you could be a complete atheist and yet still get into heaven. It's about what you do in life, how you act towards other, and if you repent when you do stumble and mistake. It's not about taking some text word for word. It's about having the virtues and lacking the vices described in it.
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Originally posted by eagl
deluded when they try to APPLY their FAITH to others who do not share in their faith.
....decrying another
....underlying bigotry and deluded self-worship
These are your words.....not mine sir.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
.....I don't agree with him telling people point blank they are going to hell (that's negative reinforcment)....
my words
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I think it was a pillar of salt but seeing that she disobeyed her husband and by extension God I would say a pillar of table salt.
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I'm not telling anyone they are going to hell. Jesus is telling them them they are going to hell, I'm merely pointing out the fact they are going to hell according to the mythological figure they disdain. furthermore I'm offering travel wardrobe advice so they don't suffer scorchedbuttitis after they meet the the true God at the instant of transition. wally world might sell asbestos underware, check it out.
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Vudak, I believe the bible is the complete and finished word of God and I believe it to be 100% inerrant. the problem is I stray far from the principals espoused therein. I agree it is right and good yet I cannot adhere to the teachings. from what I understand though I'm in fine company as no one else ever has or could, except for Jesus. Jesus is perfect and He extends his perfection to me and I accept it and I'm eternally thankful for it.
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Originally posted by storch
Vudak, I believe the bible is the complete and finished word of God and I believe it to be 100% inerrant. the problem is I stray far from the principals espoused therein. I agree it is right and good yet I cannot adhere to the teachings. from what I understand though I'm in fine company as no one else ever has or could, except for Jesus. Jesus is perfect and He extends his perfection to me and I accept it and I'm eternally thankful for it.
Hey, I'm just trying to open your eyes to other possibilities. If you don't want to open them for whatever reasons, be it faith or anything else, that's fine. I'm going to drop the subject now, I don't want to come off as a Christian basher. Just trying to get people to examine things a little closer is all.
S!
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Still i think the trick with wine powder and alcoholic water is the best.
Proof illusionists existing a long time.