Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on April 07, 2006, 09:33:55 AM
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According to http://www.spamdailynews.com/publish/ATT_forwards_all_Internet_traffic_into_NSA_says_EFF.asp AT&T is forwarding all internet traffic to the NSA. It's supported by internal AT&T documents.
I ask again WHY some of you are so complacent about these threats to our constitutional rights?
Of course the people don't want war...But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger.
—Hermann Goering [wikipedia.org]
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Because some of us don't see it as a threat.
Is it a threat if they watch you walking down the street?
The internet is no different.
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Originally posted by Mighty1
Because some of us don't see it as a threat.
Is it a threat if they watch you walking down the street?
The internet is no different.
Tapping your phone is no different either. Installing cameras in your home is no different either. Installing NSA's GPS tracker on your car is no different either.
There won't be enough resources, so why not to hire neightbourhood watchdogs to serve the greater good. Anyone without criminal record can apply.
btw. the link doesn't work, theres some HTML in the URL ;)
EFF: AT&T forwards all Internet traffic into NSA (http://www.spamdailynews.com/publish/ATT_forwards_all_Internet_traffic_into_NSA_says_EFF.asp)
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boosh ist hitler, hitler ist boosh. yada yada yada :noid
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If you do no wrong, you have nothing to fear, yada yada yada.
shamus
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Originally posted by Chairboy
I ask again WHY some of you are so complacent about these threats to our constitutional rights?
I'm not complacent. I'm pretty sure they've installed a bug up both our asses.. at least!
:furious
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lets recap, after 9-11 boosh haters said he did not do enough to prevent it, now they say he is doing too much.
instead of whining in here, why don't you e-mail boosh and tell him how you want you want the NSA run.
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John9001, are you getting enough oxygen?
Have I ever said that Bush didn't do enough to prevent 9/11? Your post seems to suggest that.
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i'm getting pretty damn tired of the carrot and stick crap. Scare us with the boogie man.. then invade our privacy to 'protect us'.
it's an old trick. and americans just don't care anymore.
we're gonna just keep takin up the ass.. all for own good; of course.
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Originally posted by Shamus
If you do no wrong, you have nothing to fear, yada yada yada.
shamus
B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't matter if I do no wrong! THEY DON"T HAVE THE RIGHT! I DO!!!
The argument about nothing to hide so don't worry? BOGUS!
Allot of people AFTER having that jammed up the backside sideways will argue that!
Do you really think, with all the laws that are being created everyday, that you are not somehow breaking one somehow somewhere?
The Patriot Act makes it alright for them to go into your home, without your knowledge, take something, NEVER tell you they took it, AND if you call the police reporting a burglery YOU can be ARRESTED for interfearing with a federal investigation! Don't matter that you've done nothing wrong! The way the law reads IT DON"T MATTER WHY YOU ARE BEING INVESTIGATED.
You don't believe me? Look it up READ IT!
A poorly written law made by good people leaves the door open for bad people to abuse it!
Sooner or later someone bad comes along.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Tapping your phone is no different either. Installing cameras in your home is no different either. Installing NSA's GPS tracker on your car is no different either.
There won't be enough resources, so why not to hire neightbourhood watchdogs to serve the greater good. Anyone without criminal record can apply.
btw. the link doesn't work, theres some HTML in the URL ;)
EFF: AT&T forwards all Internet traffic into NSA (http://www.spamdailynews.com/publish/ATT_forwards_all_Internet_traffic_into_NSA_says_EFF.asp)
No they are not the same.
When you walk down the street you are in public therfor you have no right to privacy. The internet is the same it's just virtual. Phone calls are from one person to another therefor NOT public. Your camera in the house comment is just retarded.
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Dang DARPA should have thought about it before they created the internet for the military to use !
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I'm not complacent. I'm pretty sure they've installed a bug up both our asses.. at least!
:furious
edited- too mean spirited. :)
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The Patriot Act makes it alright for them to go into your home, without your knowledge, take something, NEVER tell you they took it, AND if you call the police reporting a burglery YOU can be ARRESTED for interfearing with a federal investigation! Don't matter that you've done nothing wrong! The way the law reads IT DON"T MATTER WHY YOU ARE BEING INVESTIGATED.
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So Im supposed to think that you are being investigated for no good reason?
Or perhaps you accidently googled goat pron and are fearful of being rubbergloved in the back of some government van?
I still dont get the fear factor you have but I will be more aware of my surroundings for sure.....
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Originally posted by Mighty1
No they are not the same.
When you walk down the street you are in public therfor you have no right to privacy. The internet is the same it's just virtual. Phone calls are from one person to another therefor NOT public. Your camera in the house comment is just retarded.
The network is public? Hmmm... I'm paying a private corporation for the privilege of accessing a public network. I don't think so.
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http://freenet.sourceforge.net/
"I worry about my child and the Internet all the time, even though she's too young to have logged on yet. Here's what I worry about. I worry that 10 or 15 years from now, she will come to me and say 'Daddy, where were you when they took freedom of the press away from the Internet?"
Only issue is, like Swiss accounts, people can make use of it for truely bad things.
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Originally posted by Mighty1
No they are not the same.
When you walk down the street you are in public therfor you have no right to privacy. The internet is the same it's just virtual. Phone calls are from one person to another therefor NOT public. Your camera in the house comment is just retarded.
What about Skype, it works over the internet AND you can also make calls to conventional phones. What about e-mail, equal to letters and often contains confidential information. Every day millions of dollars exchanges owner over the internet. et cetera et cetera, hundreds of confidential and non public ways to utilize internet.
Are you saying all those should be equal to public? That would be the same as the death of internet.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
I ask again WHY some of you are so complacent about these threats to our constitutional rights?
You state "some of you" in your post as being complacent. From that I take it that you are not satisfied with it and are fighting this. Is that correct? If so, what are you doing about it?
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Sorry Chairboy I'm gonna have to give you 10/10 for lame threads on this one.
Anyone on the net can look at your traffic anyway. Hello people... heard of packet sniffing? Head of Snort? Theres a ton of commercially available apps out there as well as freeware and warez.
If you're concerned about what you do on the net then encrypt. Once again to do this theres a ton of commercially available apps out there as well as freeware and warez.
About 99% of people on this BBS don't use secure email, and don't even think twice about whether they use an encrypted web page or not.
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The function and charter of the NSA is to gather foreign intelligence of foreign threats to US national security. You want to spy domestically, the FBI is the agency with that jurisdiction with specific warrant requirements requiring probable cause.
That is the system because that is the basis of US law - limited powers with checks to prevent abuse.
Wholesale driftnet collection of domestic communications of citizens can be easily abused by the unscrupulous for political and monetary gain and innocent citizens can have their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness destroyed by mischaracterization, unintended conclusions, parody and interpretation mistakes.
The proof of that is blatantly obvious. Iraq possession of WMD capable of delivery in 45 minutes was an unequivocable fact according to the intelligence people.
It isn't the 'government' that you should be worried about. It's 'people.'
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Originally posted by Yeager
The Patriot Act makes it alright for them to go into your home, without your knowledge, take something, NEVER tell you they took it, AND if you call the police reporting a burglery YOU can be ARRESTED for interfearing with a federal investigation! Don't matter that you've done nothing wrong! The way the law reads IT DON"T MATTER WHY YOU ARE BEING INVESTIGATED.
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So Im supposed to think that you are being investigated for no good reason?
Or perhaps you accidently googled goat pron and are fearful of being rubbergloved in the back of some government van?
I still dont get the fear factor you have but I will be more aware of my surroundings for sure.....
Never said you would. But if someone you TALK with at some point in your everyday existance IS, then you could find yourself included through NO effort, NO activity, of your own.
Why would these Gov Agencies do this? They HAVE to be make sure.
Not a FEAR factor! The issue is NOT about FEAR. It's about your RIGHTS!
Whenever anyone says if you have nothing to fear, if you're doing no wrong, etc., then it's OK.......... THEN is when your RIGHTS are being bypassed! This approach makes you GUILTY if you say NO. So if you assert your RIGHTS you are GUILTY? I don't think so!
They way it WAS they HAD to have some form of evidence, some form of proof before they could even think of investigating anyone. NOW????
Now if you were to say things that the founders of this nation said you could be classed as a terrorist and investigated.
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(http://www.johnnyr.com/images/blecky2004-07-08.jpg)
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Y'all think that the taps only consist of US-International calls?
How many times do you need to be lied to before you wake the eff up?
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Well it does seem that all the "we are only going after US-international calls" is another in a long line of lies.
Of couse it is a Washington Post reporter, so it must be a lie.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/3777315.html
shamus
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I trust what the govt tells me about as far as I can throw my car, I se cameras everywhere, and if you think they only tap international calls, keep thinking that. (as they keep listening on the phone, watching on the internet, and takeing your picture for a criminal comparrison at the red light)
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http://www.lp.org
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looked at your political partie's web site.
national convention this summer is where i live.
we have more that too much dope smoking know-it-alls here already.
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The NSA now says that they won't rule out warrantless domestic wiretaps.
During a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee today, Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-CA) questioned Attorney General Alberto Gonzales about the NSA's secret domestic wiretapping program. The Administration has cited the Authorization to Use Military Force and the commander in chief powers as authorizing the NSA to intercept international communications into and out of the U.S. of persons linked to al Qaeda or related terrorist organizations.
After citing his concerns that there was no limiting principle to the Administration's claim of authority in the War on Terror, Rep. Schiff asked the Attorney General whether the Administration believes it has the authority to wiretap purely domestic calls between two Americans without seeking a warrant. "I cannot rule that out," responded the Attorney General.
"This is very disturbing testimony," Rep. Schiff commented later, "and represents a wholly unprecedented assertion of executive power. No one in Congress would deny the need to tap certain calls under court order -- but if the Administration believes it can tap purely domestic phone calls between Americans without court approval, there is no limit to executive power. This is contrary to settled law and the most basic constitutional principles of the separation of powers."
From:
here (http://makeashorterlink.com/?O20F21DEC)
EDIT: Fixed wacked out link, vBulletin is flipping out with some of my URLs for some reason.
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Originally posted by Debonair
looked at your political partie's web site.
national convention this summer is where i live.
we have more that too much dope smoking know-it-alls here already.
I'm sure the semiliterate neanderthals more than cancel them out.
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nash's phone is taped
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^ retard.
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But if someone you TALK with at some point in your everyday existance IS, then you could find yourself included through NO effort, NO activity, of your own.
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Well....if your talking to someone who is a legit target then you should be vetted. Necessary sorry to say. But if you have been a lawful person then a security check should not scare you.
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Originally posted by Yeager
But if someone you TALK with at some point in your everyday existance IS, then you could find yourself included through NO effort, NO activity, of your own.
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Well....if your talking to someone who is a legit target then you should be vetted. Necessary sorry to say. But if you have been a lawful person then a security check should not scare you.
I guess we are on different wavelenghts or something. IMHO I SEEM to keep hearing you say it's OK for someone to violate my rights for your saftey. I can see that point but I keep trying to tell you over and over that when you violate my rights you are throwing away your OWN.
I have said before BAD laws made by good people with good intentions can and almost ALWAYS are abused by BAD people when they come into power.
IMHO The way the laws are currently written we are going to get SCREWED big time at some point. We ALL of us are now WIDE open to the criminal abuse of those laws. They are POORLY written and UN-constitutional. It is possible such was the intention all along?
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has it occured to anyone here that you are arguing over a story from "spamdailynews"?
What's next? "I heard on the Colbert Report that......"
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Gunslinger,
So, failing to provide a cohesive argument, you decide instead to attack the source? Would you like us to provide the same reports from other news agencies?
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Here ya go, from the EFF:
http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2006_04.php#004538
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I didnt check, this paper might be owned by a Democtrat, so the story may very well be a big lie with the sole purpose of discrediting Bush..
http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2006/02/13/story3.html
shamus
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Gunslinger,
So, failing to provide a cohesive argument, you decide instead to attack the source? Would you like us to provide the same reports from other news agencies?
Would you accept an outlandish article from newsmax? As well, you seem to take this article at it's face value without any kind of doubt. I am skeptial considering the source.
I'd find it hard to beleive that ATT is routing their entire internet traffic to the NSA. An organization that has the word spam in it that seems to be a govt conspiracy site just makes me have doubt. Heck the way the mainstream media is creat....reporting news lately I'd probably doubt them as well. It's that simple.
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Well, I've added a link to the EFF release itself, and the story is continuing to unfold. Go search news.google.com for eff and nsa and pick the reliable media source of your choosing.
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Ok having read other news sources I can see that AT&T is being SUED over ALLEGATIONS.
To me this is neither the "whole picture" nore the "hard truth" I trust the MSM and reporters nowadays as much as I trust the federal govt.
If this turns out to be true in a broad sense then yes I will be angry as I am an SBC customer.
OTOH this whole NSA story has fizzled mainly because it isn't as sexy as first thought to be. Meny of the lawmakers that went into the classified briefing offered by the executive to explain the program came out saying "it's not at all what I orriginally thought it was"
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Kinda looks like an oops moment on AT&T's part, I wonder what they are afraid of?
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/14319042.htm
shamus